szxmum

Wow, what a rollercoaster the past 2 weeks have been - my learninmg curve has gone into orbit Having to put ds life under the microscope has led me to scrutinise my whole family - it is like a light turning on - when you consider my whole family in terms of the Autistic spectrum, it all suddenly makes perfect sense - it helps explain why we are all such an odd bunch with lots & lots of mental health problems. None of us are diagnosed, ds will be the first. Here we go: My dad - very, very clever man, engineer, appalling social skills, extreme anxiety problems leading to self-medication with alcohol. This turned into alcoholism which he died from at the age of 51. My mum - also clever, never worked, better social skills - will talk but usually very, very intensely about her special interests eg stamp & postcard collecting, no idea that people get bored and when subject is changed will always revert to what she is talking about, invades personal space (to the point of inducing panic attacks in me), very poor skills in terms of looking after a house, herself and her children (I finally accepted at the age of 33 that my brother and I were neglected as children and I had been turned into my brother's carer). My brother - becomes extremely anxious in social situations, also not good at reciprocal conversations, very opinionated and will talk at length about his problems, going round and round in circles, panic attacks +++, also self-medicates using alcohol Me - not good socially, never know how or when to enter a conversation - I sit mesmerised watching people talk about anything and everything and think "how do you do it?" I am the master at killing conversations. I'm much better at talking knowledgably about things that I am an "expert" in. I also come with a history of anxiety and depression. I have worked but have trouble sustaining a job - I always end up in overload where it all becomes too much - full-time jobs always end quicker than part-time jobs but one way or another they all come to an end. My dh - uber-talented artist, very literal thinker - cannot problem solve (drives me mad that he can only see one option and refuses to accept other possibilities) My dh's dad - also alcoholic My dh's mum - severe mental health probs (died very young at 43) My dd - the most NT of the lot of us but the traits are still there - also an uber-talented artist, is hanging onto school social life by her finger nails - she describes herself as being on the fringes of the "in-crowd" No wonder my poor ds is having such a hard time - he has had a double genetic whammy from both sides of the family along with environmental factors of parents who have most probably lived their lives in spectrum families and are unwittingly reinforcing behaviours. It's absolutely mind-blowing and fascinating. Would love to hear from others who have been similarly "enlightened".

Thompsons, you are a star, thankyou for your post I was an older Mum when I had ds, 27 - I'm now 44 and a lot of the time I'm still not sure what to do about so many things in my life but I give things a go - usually the outcome is what determines whether it was the right thing to do or not When I find the answer to life, the universe and everything, I'll share it on this forum Thanks again xx

I have read with horror a lot of your stories about trying to access help and support for your children <'> . Although we have come to AS late in the day in terms of education, ds is 17, I'd like to share the positive experience of the school system that I had yesterday. A little bit of background, just before Easter I had a telephone conversation with the head of sixth form - to cut a long story short, he wasn't prepared to enter ds into exams as he had received minimal teacher input and it would be bad for the school's results; he wanted to re-integrate ds back into mainstream sixth form to take his exams with the following year's cohort. (No special schools in our area, so it's inclusion or nothing). This telephone call kicked my backside into action, one of which's results was finding this forum :thumbs: I realised that we couldn't continue as we were - we were following a course of action with ds going into the Nurture Group at school and trying to self-study because basically we didn't know what else to do and because I wouldn't just let ds sit in his bedroom, on his computer, claiming Income Support Well, I've spent the last 10 days glued to this forum, making posts, reading-up lots and of course lots of "big" chats with ds - phew. The upshot being, I made an appointment to speak with the Nurture Group teacher yesterday - he agreed to see me immediately and spent an hour and a half chatting with me in the middle of the school day We started from the fact that although ds had managed to gain 10 GCSEs, they had come at a terrible price - severe anxiety, depression, OCD, phobias and suicidal thoughts AND the fact that ds had no diagnosis and subsequent IEP. We discussed various options and came to the following conclusion - ds was not ready to reintegrate back into mainstream or study for A levels independently or go to college or go to work with or without support and to force him down this route would take us back down the route of severe anxiety, depression, increased OCD and so on. Can I just say at this point that I am very proud of myself (with the help of this forum of course ) Just a week ago, i would have been shrieking "what's he going to doooooo!!!!!!" I have finally accepted that at this moment in time my son is disabled - he CANNOT function within "normal" society - he IS different. I am not down or despairing - he will get there but it will be at his speed and when HE is ready. We chatted further and decided that ds needed to start to feel in control of his life. This teacher is proposing that ds attends Nurture Group IF he wants as he is an adult and needs to learn that he now has a choice in this matter. When in Nurture Group, he can work on a project based around his special interests - knowing ds this would be web design or animation or gaming -he can have access to any mainstream resources to carry out this project. In addition he will be involved in the weekly small group outdoor venture activities run by the Nurture Group that he loves plus any other activities going on that HE would like to try - the emphasis being all the time that HE is in control - noone is forcing him to do anything or passing judgement on his decisions if he decides not to join in. The Nurture Group teacher is going to speak to the Ed Psych on Tuesday and push for a diagnosis (that we are still waiting for) and an IEP that is not centred around him being reintegrated back into mainstream but focuses on social skills and coping strategies. He is also going to speak to the Head (big secondary school, over 1400 pupils) about the official position of ds ie is he to be classed as a full-time student (even though he will not be attending full-time) or do we put a claim in for Incapacity in Youth benefit. Either way, he is adamant the Nurture Group will still provide support as the only alternative in our area is ds sitting at home on benefit and that is not acceptable in his eyes. This is a teacher doing the best he can within the constraints placed upon him and deserves to be applauded. So keep your fingers crossed for us everyone and I will keep you up-to-date.

Thompsons, I hope you don't mind my asking but I see from an earlier post that you are on meds and go to CBT once a week for OCD. I also see from your profile that you are 18 very similar to my ds who is 17. Now I know traditionally girls mature earlier than boys but can I ask did you seek treatment for yourself or did your parents encourage you? I understand that treatment tends to be more successful when self-motivated. Ds does not want to go to the doctors to talk about his OCD and phobias and I'm unsure if I should wait until he wants to go himself or whether I should be actively encouraging him to seek treatment. Anyones thoughts / opinions on this would be gratefully received xx

What I love about this forum is the generosity of people who are willing to share and support. I also love the "outside" observations - sometimes when you live it each day, you often can't see the wood for the trees!! Your post struck a certainly chord Kathryn and got me thinking, were we doing the right thing maintaining contact with school, should we withdraw altogether? Well I sounded out ds to get his thoughts. We covered old ground, he was happy to attend the Nurture Group (this is a lovely portable classroom set out in the school grounds, decked out like a home) as this meant he didn't have to attend mainstream classes. He tolerated doing self-study for A levels as he didn't know what else to do and it beat the alternative of mainstream but he wasn't really motivated - he had chosen these subjects because the teachers were quiet, the classes were small and there was lots of traditional listening and writing - hiding behind books. I then asked him what he thought about being in the same environment which had caused him so much pain in the past and would he prefer to leave it altogether? He thought about this and came back with an answer that rather surprised me - he said that although the school held negative memories he liked the Nurture Group classroom, he liked the two teachers, the support staff and the children who attended - they were all ages, no large groups and any bullying or intimidation was immediately stamped out by the staff. He also loved the weekly outdoor venture trip and got on very well with the venture leader "he has the same wacky sense of humour as Dad" As I said, this conversation surprised me as I thought that given the option he would have "been out of there like a shot". On the back of this, I made an appointment to meet with the Nurture Group teacher yesterday and had an amazingly positive meeting - I'll start a new post later today as I just want to share that there are people out there who are trying very, very hard within the constraints of the system that they work in.

Thanks to everyone who helped me understand my son's OCD and phobic behaviours. But...... this got me to thinking ...... What are AS and autistic behaviours and what causes them? Why do they happen? I apologise for my ignorance but I only know that rocking is a well known behaviour but I've no idea why people rock. As you can see, I like to learn and understand things but thinking about things just leads to more questions - sorry Thanks for helping me learn, szxmum xx

Just wanted to thank everyone again for their input and advice on this thread. A quick update - had a chat with ds and yes he does have a germ phobia. He was very, very uncomfortable talking about it and became very anxious, angry and agitated but at least its out in the open now. The crux is the thought of germs being on his hands and this is driving his behaviours. I mentioned that we could go to the GP to try to get help with meds or CBT but he's not ready to take that step yet. So again, small steps - one at a time. It was interesting to watch him today, the Nurture group had arranged for him to go on an outdoor venture activity - now he has done this before and thoroughly enjoyed it. His anxiety levels rose - perhaps excitement is a better word to use as this was a positive emotion he was experiencing but it still elicited a big increase in the OCD behaviours. He still had to perform quite an elaborate ritual before he left the house. Although it is usual for him to complete riruals (behaviours) before he leaves the house, today it was noticably more and much longer but he wasn't negatively anxious and worried but positively excited and happy. Sooo, another question here, are compulsive behaviours linked to chemical changes in the body eg increased adrenaline in the blood? Yet another question here - I get the sensory issue and understand that ds likes to wear old, comfortable clothes but why do all his clothes have to be blue? Can anyone shed any light on that one?

Ds has not been diagnosed with anything yet :wallbash: We are praying that he will get a diagnosis of AS or HFA from the Ed Psych at school. I went to see our GP last year and I was so distraught that I begged him to give my son anti-depressants - anything to relieve his suffering. He refused as ds was 16. I even said I would write a letter taking full responsibility for the administration of the meds but he still refused. He referred us to Adult Mental Health Services who would not speak to me as my son was the adult and the patient not me Well ds told them what they wanted to hear as that is what he has learnt to do - keep below the radar, keep people happy, then they don't bother me and I don't get hurt - arrrggggg - sorry to rant I am currently trying to find a GP in our area who is up on AS, OCD, etc, etc. Failing that we'll look at going private - best start looking out for things to sell - shame the old body's past it

A big thanks to everyone yet again for your input :clap: What would I do without you all. When ds dropped out of mainstream 6th form we saw a marked decrease in the anxiety and OCD symptoms. I guess what is bothering me now is that the anxiety and OCD symptoms are still present. If I ask ds if he is happy, content, relaxed I get a reply: I'm good or "8/10 or 9/10 Mum" Sooooo ...... what is causing this anxiety and subsequent OCD symtoms? Is this the AS ie just his normal state in trying to cope with / make sense of a world that he just really doesn't understand / fit into. What are people's thoughts on this? Thanks for all the input re: toilet avoidence and germs. It would make a lot of sense - think of me later on today when I have the conversation. Thought of another question - out of interest, how do these phobias develop? Sorry for so many qs - just trying to make sense of it all xxx

Wow Bid - you have rocked me back on my heels with your response. He is good at the moment - so much better than he has been in the past - in our world his anxiety levels are low at the moment but these are his normal every day behaviours. When they escalate we know his anxiety is increasing, there is a problem and will lead eventually to tears, depression and panic attacks. In the past has also led to suicidal thoughts but please God we never go there again. It has stunned me that an "outsider" thinks his anxiety leverls are high. Reading through the list, yes they are, aren't they. What have we got used to as a family? It just seems normal and every day for us. Lisac, you have also stunned me with your comment that your 22 year old autistic son exhibits the same behaviours. I am thinking of going back to our gp and asking for a referral through to someone who knows about Aspergers and High Functioning Autism, at present we are just on our own, in limbo (apart from you guys )

I'm sat here this morning tired and despairing (too tired to cry) Ds, 17, has gone off to Nurture group at school, so went into his room to clean (he doesn't like me in there when he's home - nothing wrong with that, typical teenage behaviour) Well, his room stank of wee - my heart sank, not again. In early teens ds used to wet the bed, this progressed to getting out of bed and weeing on the carpet. This has now progressed to weeing in a cup and pouring it out of the window. Well due to poor motor skills this has ended up spilt down the walls and onto the carpet. Now I have had a chat with ds about this, explained it is not acceptable behaviour - no arguments, no negotiating. He said it would stop. Ds was very embarrased, self-conscious and was aware it was wrong. What is going on here? Why is the urge to behave in this way overriding the knowledge that it is wrong and unacceptable behaviour? It must be hell knowing that "normal" people don't behave this way and yet be unable to stop it. I just want to understand. He also exhibits a whole raft of odd behaviours: - He will not touch door handles and uses his elbows, arms, feet or pulls his sleeves over his hands - anything to avoid touching a door handle - He will not open bottles, again he pulls his sleeves over his hands or he tries to do it with minimal conatct using one hand. - His latest is not putting the tops back on bottles - we have had so many accidents with spilt juice - He has to wear 2 pairs of underpants at a time and changes these 3 times a day. Socks are also changed three times a day - I am so fed up of washing underwear. - He will only wear blue clothes (very, very occasionally white or orange t-shirts usually when there are no clean blue t-shirts left) - He wipes his fingers on his trouser legs after eating - these usually end up covered in food marks after one day - He will not sit on our sofas, sits on the floor all the time - He continually washes his hands without drying them properly to the point they are red raw in winter - He cannot stand a wet sink and will use towels and dish towels to dry the taps, basins and any other water droplets. The towels are then chucked into the bath. My towels are always soaking and if I'm not washing undies, I'm washing towels - A tap is not allowed to drip, so the taps in our house are tightened to the point where you can hardly turn them on - Plug switches have to be turned off - thank God, he will now leave the freezer turned on - When we lock our door at night he leans so heavily on it to check that it is locked that the door handle is going to break - all this is done without touching the door handle of course And then there are the quirky behaviours - He collects the plastic ring tops of milk cartons - he has to have at least one in his pocket when he goes out - Shiny, crinkly sweet papers are another favourite to be found in his pockets - Yet another favourite for his pockets is shredded tissue paper - Objects are positioned in specific places all around his bedroom - Cables (of which there are a lot from his pc, Xbox, Playstation, etc, etc) are arranged into the most intricate patterns on the floor but they never ever touch one another And so I could go on and on.... Can anyone identify with or provide insight with these behaviours. So tired today with it all. As always, any input, thoughts or advice would be very, very gratefully received.

I wonder if anyone has any experience with or can advise me on applying for Incapacity Benefit for my 17 year old ds - I think it's referred to as Incapacity in youth. Will they need info from our gp or would a diagnosis of AS from an Educational Prychologist be sufficient? The decision to go down this route is not being taken lightly but I feel we have reached the point where ds needs some time to mature / gain strength for the next step of going to college or into work. I am really in the dark in this area and any tips would be very gratefully received. Many thanks, sxzmum xx

Many, many thanks to you all for your input <'> I really appreciate it. I had a long chat with ds and we have made a couple of decisions - I know they are the right ones and positive because we have had no emotional "fallout" IYKWIM I explained that the school wanted ds to reintegrate back into mainstream with support next September. Ds made me laugh "Oh they think that, do they and exactly how does that help me" Ds also admitted that his current chosen A levels held no interest for him - he had chosen them because the classes were smaller and the emphasis was on written work So we have decided that ds will officially leave school at the end of this year. Bless his heart, he has agreed to continue to attend the Nurture group a couple of times a week until I can get this dx from Ed Psych. We had a chat about FE college, at first he was negative - he has an absolute abhorence of being around groups of other young people. If we are in the street he will walk to the other side of the street to avoid other teenagers or he will put myself, my dh or his sister as a wall between himself and the perceived "threat". He seemed to like the idea of evening classes when I explained there would be a mix of ages in these classes. So that looks like being a possibility in the future - however, we first of all need a motivation to do these classes and that just isn't there at the moment. He likes the idea of web design, being self-employed and working from home so my next step is to investigate the Princes Trust although I do think you have to be 18 to apply. I also need to investigate DLA, incapacity benefit and income support. I like the idea of self-employment as this is promoting a positive, independent state of mind however, unless he is a runaway success he will need some form of benefit back-up. So positive steps made yesterday and today

((((Hugs)))) SuzyQ I just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you and I hope that some of the leads on this thread give you some badly needed practical support. xxx

Welcome Gemma <'>

Hi everyone We are currently waiting a dx of AS from Ed Psych for our ds, 17 (she has verbally said that ds has AS and we are just waiting her written report and recommendations). Ds took his gcses last summer - did well 6Bs and 4Cs. He started 6th form in September but dropped out after a month. Ds currently goes into the school's Nurture group 2-3 times a week for an hour or so. He has been attempting to "self-study" for his AS levels with the full knowledge of his subject teachers (I went to visit them) but no actual teacher input. Phone call from head of 6th form before Easter - the school will not enter him in for his exams as "he hasn't got a hope of passing them" and "it is not fair on the teachers because his failure will pull down their number of pass grades". I kid you not, I did have this conversation. School want to reintegrate ds fully back into 6th form next September. Now.... I have spoken to ds: 1. He will not go back into mainstream 6th form (he has my support on this, given what he has experienced in the past - long story short, depression, anxiety, panic attacks, suicidal thoughts. 2. He is unsure about A levels because he does not know what job he would like to do. 3. He does not want to go to college or onto university because "they will be the same as school and 6th form" 4. He does not want to work because he would have to deal with people - the only job he will in any way entertain the thought of is a computer-based occupation in a very quiet office with no people contact. What can I do to help my son? Is it best just to leave him until he wants to study for A levels, go to college, get a job? Do I push him to go back into 6th form, go to college, get a job and risk the recurrence of the depression, anxiety, panic attacks? He is happy, content and relaxed at present - happier than he has been for the last 5 years since the start of secondary school which is worth its weight in gold. Do I say his mental health is paramount and leave him be? If so what are the options - I presume it's state benefits for him - can anyone advise on what benefits are available to him? Have you or your children gone through this? What are your experiences? Any advice would be very, very gratefully received.

Thankyou Caroline (((Hugs))) I really have "indulged" myself with "looking back" over the past few days. I think it is something to do with the fact of previously not knowing about AS and never having anyone who understood to talk to... You are quite right, dwelling on the past helps no-one and we have reached our turning point. We don't know what the future holds but we are learing fast about AS and ASD; we have found this forum and we don't feel on our own anymore :clap:

Hindsight is wonderful, isn't it With hindsight, my biggest wish is that I had known more about AS and ASD. Would it have made any difference - I'll never know. We don't have any alternative to large "normal" secondary schools. Their policy is inclusion, inclusion, inclusion. Even if ds had been dx earlier, would it have made any difference to his experience at secondary school - my gut feeling is probably not. He would most probably have been offered a time-out zone where he would have calmed down and tried to gain strength to put himself through it all again. He may also have been offered varying degrees of 1:1 support in classroom - would this have helped, again probably not - he already knows he is different and feels that he doesn't belong, so why not rub his nose in it by providing adult support, a very visible sign of his difference !!!! My ds is right, in secondary school where conformity, peer pressure and belonging to a group is everything, it is cruel to put someone like him through it. With hindsight, my wish for my son would have been an educational environment where his difference was understood and celebrated. Where he would have been seen for the wonderful, fabulous, unique person that he is. xx

A big thankyou to all of you for your kind wishes and for taking the time to post your own experiences. I am still a little bit blown away by how many people on this forum have gone through similar (and much worse) experiences. So thanks again to everyone xx

I totally relate to what you are going through Shona - it was at this point last year that our family life went into meltdown and on a more positive the note, the point where we finally found out about and started on our journey with AS. Our ds was an un-dx AS struggling alone in mainstream, the school were turning up the pressure big-style on gcses and coursework, bullying and exclusion was going on by classmates - the result, anxiety, depression, panic attacks, obsessions and compulsions went into overdrive. The worst part for me was finding out that ds was viewing suicide websites - I have never felt and hope never, ever to feel that way again. We pulled ds out of school straight away - our Gp wrote a note stating that he was treating ds for mental illness - not ideal but it served it's purpose. Ds never went back into mainstream lessons again. From that point, ds did no further coursework or gcse revision - I figured exams could be taken at any point, his psychological well-being was what was important. Our saving point was the Nurture support teacher at school - he was totally behind us and in agreement with our actions. From this point on, being removed from all the stress, ds improved. He occasionally went into the Nurture group, supposedly to help the teacher with troubled younger children. He improved to such an extent that the Nurture teacher suggested entering ds for the exams - he would arrange for ds to take the exams in the Nurture classroom on his own with one other staff member present. I was a bit dubious as he has missed the last 8 weeks of school and all the revision sessions. Anyway, spoke to ds and he said he'd give it a go. Well the outcome was 6Bs and 4Cs So - yes, it can be done. You could check with the school's examination officer for dates, times, venues of exams that he is entered in; ask Gp for sick note and set up a revision timetable with your son. Good luck to you both xx

What a little star :clap: (((Hugs))) to you both xx

Hi everyone I apologise in advance if this seems like introspective naval gazing but this is the first time I have been able to share things with people who have had similar experiences. It's a bit like cathartic, self-healing <'> apologies everyone while I work through this... I asked ds, 17, what his thoughts were on school, now that he is almost free of it. Although I know he was not blaming me, his reply had me in bits Secondary school was in his words " A hell-hole on earth" "If there was an alternative available and you knowingly put me through that experience, that would be classed as child cruelty and abuse" I look back and I am soooo proud of him, amazed that he got through it, the hard way, on his own. Looking back I remember: - Bullying +++ and lots of visits into school to try to get it sorted. It always was for a short time before starting up yet again - Tears at night, tears in the mornings - long chats trying to put ds back together / give him some "strength" to take it all again - Cuddling him one night as he lay, shaking with fear at the thought of going back to school after the holidays - anxiety, depression, panic attacks, OCD and rituals+++ - Very good reports stating what a model student he was - quiet, clever, diligent but shy and not very good at sport or speaking out in class Progressing through secondary school, ds developed his own independent coping strategies - He told me once that he was a master at being invisible, he could withdraw into his own world where no-one would bother him - He started walking home so that he wouldn't have to use the school bus - He stopped eating lunch so that he wouldn't have to use the canteen - He hid in the loos in the changing rooms so that he would become locked in and not have to play football or rugby - Eventually he found his feet and began walking - quietly and without a fuss, he would walk out of school and go home. No-one stopped or questioned him - he had the perfected the art of being invisible It was at this point the school started taking notice - late year 10. He was referred to the Nurture group - this room became his safe haven throughout year 11 and it is credit to the staff there that ds was successful in his gcses It was the Nurture group teacher who introduced me to AS (bless his heart) which in turn brought me here. So here we are, better late than never, awaiting a late diagnosis - can't come soon enough...

My ds 17 is also a virtual recluse, he will often not come out of his room for days on end and yes, it is so worrying The positives are that he will come out of his room to eat ; he will come out of his room to watch a dvd with the family - it has to be something that he will watch though like X Files, Lost, Dr Who or Red Dwarf He will venture into town if it is "worth it" eg there is an Xbox or PS game to be bought He has one friend, another AS lad who tries desperately to maintain contact with ds. Ds son is not particularly interested because he likes driving type games not Sonic, Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid :wallbash: AS friend phones ds, it is never reciprocated We are hanging onto school by the skin of our teeth, he has dropped out of 6th form but he will go into the Nurture group a couple of times a week for an hour or so. School want to reintegrate him into mainstream 6th form next year - much as I would love this, I don't think they've got a hope in hell. Even if I pushed for 1:1 teaching in the Nurture group and we got it, I don't think ds would attend. He is a master at quiet, discrete non-attendance or slipping out of situations he is not comfortable in. Like others, my main worry is that his bedroom will become ds's world. I would love to hear adults with AS experiences. Can you relate to this? Was this you? How did you come through retreating from the world or has your bedroom / home become your world? Please share as I so want to help my son. Thx xx

Hi frogslegs Thanks for replying I am still very new to this but am so very relieved to have found this forum. I have learnt more in the last couple of days than I have in the past year Thanks again, sdxmum xx

Just wanted to share a couple of positives for Friday night... Was talking to dd (13) today about big brother and AS. Had same discussion about a year ago - we had lots of tears to the tune of "I don't want my brother to have this geeky condition" :wallbash: Well, what a difference a year makes. She was so mature, caring, intuitive and protective <'> Felt sooo proud of her Well part of the discussion with dd centred around fashion sense or more accurately ds lack of it. Ds wears clothes that are varying shades of blue and comfortable - usually trackie bottoms, t-shirts and hoodies - nothing else . Well to 13 yr old dd this is just not on. Last year (before we started down the AS road) we had bought ds some jeans and a fashionable white, patterned hoodie - needless to say they have remained in the wardrobe. So dd decided today was the day that ds was to try them on... Well, bless his heart, ds went along with it and let her fashion him Picture the scene - old comfortable navy t-shirt; uber-smart white hoodie and very smart but obviously rough and uncomfortable new jeans. Dd looks as pleased as punch and disappears into her bedroom congratulating herself Ds squirms around the kitchen for all of 30 seconds then disappears up into his room.... Appears again minus the sweatshirt and jeans with not one but two pairs of pyjama bottoms on - blue pair hanging out the bottom of navy blue pair on top :lol: If dd had seen him she would have had a fit I ask ds, why the pj bottoms - his answer "they are comfortable"; why two pairs "because I was cold" Small steps for me today as well as dd - a year ago I would have been stressing out - why was he behaving this way? what was the matter with him? was this a sign of MI? Today I just thought fair enough - it makes perfect sense. Just as long as he doesn't want to wear two pairs of pjs down the street Enjoy your Friday night everyone