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good post sally44. you are totally right. people do always say, "report a bully" and we'll sort it out? but it often doesn't work that way. such a person is then "marked" as a squealer. just like you have seen it in the nhs, I have seen it in the city. re: the loan insurance/ libro/ forex scandals. people had to give up multi million dollar incomes to expose that stuff. ...and no one's going to employ them again? it is a very difficult area to address.. but I do still like your idea of getting to them when they are young? the mentoring system... to explain to them bullying aint cool. & if you get to people young, and educate them differently, before they imprint, it might work.

nice art work. I love that style of graphics. but don't worry. no way I'm touching absynth. just had a bad night the other night, and I thought a nice small glass of vodka would make me feel better. next morning I woke up with my face stuck to the keyboard, and an empty vodka bottle beside me. those vodka pixies eh? (I say innocently pretending it wasn't me who drank it?)

you sound like a good son to your parents akukin & and pretty decent chap all round. i'm sorry that you guys can't see eye to eye on certain AS related issues. I wish I was better at the practical issues of advising you re: getting your own pad. but I wish you all the best, and hope it works out for you. also, since you sound like such a decent chap when it comes to treating your parents properly, you might find once you have moved out, they miss you terribly, and will be a bit more tolerant? it might be the start to a new stage in your relationship with them? all the best, and keep the thread informed of how things develop. regards.

as an addition to my comments, in an attempt to be humorous :-) i like douglas adam's concept of who should run the world. i think in one of his books, he fictionalised a little old man, living in a hut on his own, with no external influences. ...and if folks needed a decision on a important matter, they'd just drop in and listen to him wibbling on. i can't recall exactly how the story goes, but i believe the little old man didn't even know he was in power? he often rambled on, and what he said made no sense, but they found what ever he said was still better than the corrupt people. perhaps that is the crucial part to it all? the only person who could fairly run the world, would be someone who didn't want too? and maybe didn't even know he or she was? :-)

thanks for replying shoring. I value opposite views to my own, because they challenge me and make me think things through properly. I can see your point about there might be certain aspects of office, that would be difficult for an autistic person to handle. but I can't speak for all autistic's, I can only speak for myself. so if I say, for example was in office, I could imagine myself needing a very good back office support system, to deal with the complex coordination issues involved. whilst I got locked up in the issues. but the point of what i'm saying (and perhaps Michaela is agreeing with?) is that we've all seen the result of NT's holding office. ..and perhaps the proof of the pudding is in the eating, in that they clearly aren't serving the public's best interests. one doesn't need to understand the functioning's of a machine, to see when it is not working? and if something is not working, then why not try something different? just because it is different! i can not imagine an autistic person, with the help of a trusted back office, making anything worse than things are all ready? i find austistic people to be intrinsically very moral, and very logical in matters of fairness. we wouldn't get all the corruption that is currently prevalent for a start, because autistic's would be clueless to any threats made to them. i.e. if i was in 10 downing street, and the owners of the top 10 companies. i.e. oil/ pharmaceuticals/ technology co's, visited me and threatened me unless I accepted their bribes, i would say no to them. i wouldn't be interested in any promises of lucrative positions on their boards after office, just "so long as i permit that new drug that doesn't work" to be sold? or i "let them drill for oil in a place where no one wants them too". etc?" i would speak for the people, and not those 1% at the top, who are only interested in them selves. i'm sure they'd find someway to get to me though? i'm sure no one in office starts out bad. i bet everyone starts out with the best of intentions, they'd probably take my grandkids "for a ride", and bring them back but say next time, they might not bring them back? either that or i'd just get assassinated in six months lol. either that or perhaps I've just been watching too much x-files. regards,

lol. if my kids would of done all that for me, but more importantly their mum, i'd of bought them all their own manor houses by now. instead they just thought about themselves first, so they got nothing! what a shame

sorry I have not read all your replies. bur re: "the living on your own thing" it's very expensive. these days very expensive. I won't be like these other's who will soft soap it for you, if you are a single man who wants a crash, it's basically not going to happen, unless you want to squat. if you are a lesbian woman, with 10 foreign kids, yeah, that will happen, you'd get a house, but, if you are a native fella of this country, with no dependants, i'm sorry to tell you the truth but it just *aint gonna happen*, that you'll get your own place. even on the council list, I've been looking at how that sort of situation is developing, and basically, unless your a teenage girl, who opened her legs to everyone, and got some bairns brewing in the oven, to them you don't exist. from what I understand, if you have mental issues, they might be prepared to help you, but you'd probably end up in a half way house? which I can assure you is not pleasant. I do have an idea though? if you offered to help out your folks? you know.. do a few jobs around the place, drive them around a bit, do half and half. in short be fair? they might all of sudden decide they don't mind you around? might even give you a more comfortable living situation? us parents aren't complete idiots. we just want to be treated fairly? suggestions ---> 1) cook them a meal 2 nights a week. it don't matter If the meal is .. all that matters is you tried? 2) if you don't have a car, and they do, chuck em £5- £10 a week for gas, for them running you around (if they do?) 3) get your mum some flowers once in a while? and watch a movie your old man likes once in a while? ..if you do have a car, take em to their favourite garden centre/ café every so often. old folks love that! I bet within a couple of weeks, they would not want you to leave? they'd be begging you to stay? all the best.

I wasn't aware that one could these days graduate "in" austism? trekster lol (sorry.. just going by the word of the letter of what you said in your first post?) it's ok.. i'm sure you just said that as a joke. do you perhaps mean you've qualified in what they currently have decided is "the skills to relate to that sort of thing?" what an aweful thing to qualify in? you probably want to help, but who can? with stuff like, what an earth could they possible tell you. it's not a very exact science. it must be aweful to know there are people who have the condition who know more about it after two seconds, that you could after you've spent three/ five years? studying it? I guess it shows you care though. nice one. even though I still aint sure what qualifying in "autism means" lol

I was having a really bad night that night. I knew i'd get come back.. I felt guilty about what I typed virtually 10 minutes after I typed it. I hope we can all move on. x

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it just occurs to me, you folks might not even know what i'm talking about. (it's a very well know poem amongst anyone over 60ish?) i'll do my version of it, "first they came for those that didn't look like them? and took them away?" I said nothing.. because I looked like them. "next they came for those that didn't think like them?" I said nothing, because I thought I thought like them, but then I realised I didn't, and they came for me... & by then there was no one left to speak for me :-( I can not now remember who did the original for that poem (I think it was a non- Jewish person during in the 1945's war?) but I think it says it all. pretty deep subject. .........!!!

shall we all reset? we all obviously want the best for people on the spectrum? but we all lack the ability to explain through lack of experience!!! (or the fact we are autistic) how such a benefit for them can be set up? I think that's all what we want.. but Nt's aint going to be interested in that sort of thing, so I think us aspies/ autistics are gonna have to set it up for ourselves. look we've all got conditions? so we are saying? yeah? we all at times, say the wrong things, without realising we have? water boat's just got his way of seeing things just like me. he means no harm I bet. I mean how many is the time we've said something, and had someone kick back at us, and get mean cause they misread us, or we didn't type what we meant. it can go both way's, if someones aspie/ austic? aspie's like me can type something really bad, but it's just cause at the time we don't know the right words? I have been excluded from certain sites for doing that..just cause I picked the wrong words, and didn't even realise I had? I can not dismiss waterboat, because he's just done what we all do from time to time. and what is nas? sounds like just another organisation, where people who can't function milk a living off donations? i.e. someone gives £100k, we all know someone will stream £50k of the top of that just to administer it? so that is £50k a year that isn't getting to the punters. so they can have a nice house and car, and autistic's aint getting the benefit of that part of the money? I find those sorts of organisations revolting. I prefer concepts for helpful charitable organisations, where those that run such organisations have enough already, and won't milk the pot. so 99% get's plugged into the charity. (i.e. they aint no point streaming money off, if you are rich already?) does the NAS do that? I don't know,. i'm just asking? is anyone in a position to know what percent of nas donations, actually hit the punters? I think we'd all value a statement from nas telling us? if anyone is up to setting up a charity for aspergers/ autistic's. I would volunteer my services for zero cost. every single penny that was donated would go towards the cause. i think people have the right to know, that if they donate a pound to a charitable thing, that pound goes to what they donated it too. call me a freak or what ever, but that is my way of seeing it.

that night was a bad night for me . sorry if I blathered on a bit. I'm now talking about the people who have to wait two years to get assessed, and i was talking about the people who do that for folks (in real life).. I can see my calling them "mods" could of caused some confusion. I mean the idiot kiddie shrinks from real life.. not the helpers on here. with the best world in the world, I've noticed over the last 20-30 years, they keep changing their views. I've noticed.. 30 years ago they say one thing, 20 years ago they say another, 10 years ago they've completely changed yet again. I just have lack of confidence in what the so called professionals "say" there system of scoring aspergers/ autism points means nothing to me.. I've seen em change it ever month, usually so government doesn't have to pay? my call on it, is, I would only trust a dignasis by someone who has the condition themselves. it is only then you'll get a fair assessment. so in reply to your question. scoring 13 means nothing. talk to a proper aspie/ autistic person who aint worried about government spending, and they will be more lightly to give you a proper answer. for example, if I was asking you the questions, I would ask, 1) have you ever upset people and never knew why? 2) have you ever found the only people who seem to like you seem odd themselves? 3) have you even done something that is really nice and kind... and yet had people hate you for it? (i.e. because they aren't nice and aren't kind? and hate you cause you did it and they didn't?) those are the sorts of questions i'd ask. I reckon the government should elect a group of people, who are aspergers/ autistic to decide, and then you'd get a fair disagnisis. I mean it's only Nt's who'd invent a point system? and they aint got no clue.

I also would like to add, I have recently recalled someone else who posted very much similar discussions to this, and they were saying bullies pick on people who are lacking in confidence? and that bullies can sniffout people like that in an instant? so sending our kids to night classes to learn basic self defense moves, can make the world of difference :-) I know my brother enrolled his lad in such a class at a very early age (seven years old?) we aren't talking about army stuff here. we are talking just a few basic self defence moves. a few moves that can disable a bully without actually hurting them? I think all schools should also have that as part of their mandatory educational time table for the pupils. if that was part of the curriculum, in combination with sallys mentoring idea, they bully's would have no one to prey on & there perhaps would no longer be any bullies at schools :-) :-)

thanks for your replies people. it's always nice to come on, and get a night where I have things to reply to, so I don't go into deep "lonely mode", like my lighthouse/ vodka night a few days ago. lol before I carry on, please no one feel emotionally blackmailed into answering me (me saying that might not make sense in this post, but in other posts I made a few nights ago, even I can see I became a bit pitiful, but going back to the original subject of re: school bullying, my experience of childhood at school, was, I received vastly more emotional bullying than physical bullying. but I was bought up in an environment of it being "the only things bullies understand is fighting fire with fire." my recalls of those horrible days, were people non stop picking on me emotionally, but I was not capable of fighting them back on the emotional level so I didn't (or if I did, my attempts were pathetic and failed.) but if anyone physically bothered me, it did seem the feeling of the time amongst those adults in charge was, "bullys are cowards, who only ever thump people who they know are too scared to fight back, so the best think you can do, is to fight back." I indeed did this a few times, and on those rare occasions, the bully always came up to me next day, and asked "to be friends," cause when I decide to use my fists, I don't hold back. I adhor violence of any form, be it then or now, but i'd have to say laddo, back in my day, fighting fire with fire, was accepted and "silently encouraged." but if we move on to my step son's time at school, by then all that had gone (so perhaps that was the time of when you were @ school?) i'd always take him aside, when I heard of people bothering him physically with violence, and tell him i'd always stand beside him in school disapline meetings, if he had absolutely no choice but to fight back. but the lads a nice guy & he never listened to my advice. I've never known him fight fire with fire. i'm not sure if that was the school system encouring him to do so, but I guess it might be? but in his example, the new "school way didn't help". he just got hurt more and more, and when he finally left that school.. guess what, the bullies just moved on to the next kid :-( I aint no big expert of managing schools bullying issues, but all I know is on those occasions I had to fight back, it worked. re: the physical bullying. where as my step son's path he chose didn't stop it. there could be many dynamic's involved that because of my potential aspergers condition- i'm not aware off. I just know my son felt terribly ashamed, and embaressed about it all. he wanted to appear a man to me, and yet refused to fight. I so respect him for that. but I feel bad for him that I could not come up any other idea, and the schools way of "not fighting fire with fire" didn't work for him either. I think sally44 might have a good point. i'm not sure that "senior mentoring thing" was present during my lad's time at school. It definitely wasn't during my time at school.) but I can see value in older respected kids, going around and explaining to the younglings that bullying is not acceptable in their own subtle ways. if it was mentor kids that the young kids respected, (i.e. they were into their music, or ran social clubs they liked, I could see that serving a good function.) I think if my daughter's get troubles with my grandkids getting bullied, i'm gonna suggest to them they sends the bairns to a school where such a system is in place.