Using PECS for a verbal child

[shamu]

Have been thinking about posting this for a few days and you've all been so helpful on my other thread that I thought I may as well

DS (aged 3 and not formally diagnosed - have that to go through next week )is pretty verbal eg to get his needs met he asks for everything by name and he makes comments on stuff he sees etc. However, the SALT wants us to go down the route of PECS with the longer term aim of using it as a route to communication through language. I'm just a bit confused as to how this will work. Has anyone else started using PECS with a child who is already verbal? It feels like a step backwards and he's so difficult to engage that I don't know how to explain the concept of the PECS cards (guess that's the SALT's job to some extent!). He isn't a "classical" visual learner so may find them quite hard to start with.

Also, how will I introduce them to his childminder? I think the SALT is going to contact her at some point but my understanding of PECS is that you need consistency in all settings.

Thanks

Shamu

[loupin]

I know very little of the PECS and how you should use it as my son is very verbal. He does have semmantic pragmmatic speech & lang disorder so although he often sounds good quite often he doesn't really translate the meaning of your words. My son is 6 now but with hindsight when he was 3 I would of used the PECS system to encourage his communication,he did speak at 3 but it was muddled and confused. By 4 he was talking in film scripts and a very angry confused little thing. He is a visual learner and I do a lot of drawings and visual reminders that are all over the house and school now do the same and he is very responsive. From the little I know PECS can really serve to encourage a child to communicate.

Hope that helps a little I'm quite sure that there will be lots of people with useful information on here I will also watch with great intrest!

[baddad]

Hi Shamu -

 

This is a bit of a personal bug-bear of mine, so i may not be entirely unbiased!

Firstly, no doubt about it PECS is a brilliant tool for teaching visual learners the 'concept' of communication and for helping those with delayed speech to bridge the communication gap. For some kids, PECS is an absolute godsend and 'must'...

On the downside, the 'Buzz' and excitement surrounding PECS a few years ago got really out of hand, and it was being applied left right and centre to all sorts of kids for whom (IMHO) it was completely inappropriate, who were demonstrating no actual 'need' or preference for a visual communication aid or any significant language disorder to warrant the use of one... The worst offenders in this push at that time (can't speak for the 'now' as not in the same loops now!) were S<'s generally and S<'s involved in the NAS early bird scheme - which promotes PECS heavily - specifically...

More recently, this oversubscription seems to have died down a bit, and the usefulness of PECS put back into perspective, but it might be worth 'challenging' your S< over this if she/he's a bit oldschool to find out the basis for their belief that it's the right way to go for your littlun.

Very recent developmnents in understanding of (i.e.) hyperlexia would suggest that many kids who appeared to be responding well to PECS were actually responding to the written definitions underscoring the visual cues - the exact opposite of what was being assumed by those promoting visual learning!

 

One other thing I'd add, though, is that visual reinforcers are no bad thing for anyone - ASD or otherwise - and alongside of the usual stuff it makes good 'belt and braces' sense. That's a completely different thing though to the fairly rigid implementation that a PECS board creates and demands...

 

Hope that's helpful,

 

L&P

 

BD

[smiley]

Hi Shamu,

 

Firstly - i'd agree with BD, check that the SaLTs information is relevant to your son and up to date... The PECs bandwagon did do more harm than good in some respects - that said, it can be a fantastic tool to enable children/adults to communicate in a way that's easier or more relevant to them.

 

My son is verbal - but NEEDS some form of visual support - not PECS, more picture cards to support him. But, unlike yours, my son is a very visual learner and has quite significant processing and sequencing difficulties. We use the pictures alongside all the other bits an bobs to support him. He uses a visual timetable at school, which is a strip of card with velcro - going from top to bottom, all the things coming up in that session of the day (ie; put away bag, get reading book, assembly time, literacy.....). The staff all have several pictures with them to either gain his attention or to help him when he's in meltdown. At home, he needs a lot of support to sequence himself - ie; he needs a sequencing line to help him to get dressed in the correct order - and i use it when we're out - to give him some visual structure..................

 

Waffled on abit - sorry - it's a very personal thing. It must be suitable to the child (or will just cause more confusion) and should really be used in all settings/situations. I'm always mindful that its a prop to aid development - i would be wary of leaning on it too heavily. I occasionally 'challenge' his need for visual support - and over the years (he's 7 now), he has needed them less and less.

 

If you're concerned - i'd ask the SaLT to explain the thinking behind it.

 

Hope i haven't confused you even more! <'> <'>

[LizK]

I agree with Smiley. We've used PECs pictures but in the form of visual timetables and prompts which have been very useful. This is the TEACHH method as it is you using them to impart information to your child whereas PECs exchanges are really for your child to communicate to you. School use various visual prompts mainly using the PECs symbols for things like 'line up' or 'no touching'. At Earlybird we were told that if the child is fairly verbal and understanding the language they and you say then you should move onto TEACHH. Makaton is another alternative stop gap to help communication and I found a few symbols were farily useful for both me and Adam to use.

 

Lx

[Cat]

PECs has always made my son quite angry. When he was in a two day a week placement at our Child Development Unit he would never comply with their need to push PEC's. He would get very angry when he had to use a picture to move from one room to another when he could just tell them where they were going to next I know that visual timetables help many children on the spectrum - but not mine - who always felt that they were trying to baby him. I know that when some children are stressed and their verbal communication fails them that PEC's can be very useful and that is excellent for them. My son got through his 'need to know' in many situations by learning to tell the time. He was happy so as long as he knew how long he would be doing something. So it's horses for courses really.

 

I know someone who removed his highly verbal autistic son from a Special School because they insisted that he used PEC's all of the time even though he could talk If a child is verbal then my gut feeling is to look for shared meanings and understanding through their verbal abilities - why go backwards Don't be steam rollered by anyone who thinks that they know best - YOU - know your child best be sure that you make your voice heard.

 

Cat

[Tilly]

I didn't push PECS for my dd who has always been verbal, but not age appropriate. I've always encouraged her to "use your words, because you can speak". At a parent carer forum I attended there was one parent who thought all children should be taught PECS so that they could then communicate with children who needed to use PECS. I disagreed with this but a lot of parents who were there thought it was a good idea.

 

In my dd school they are used quite a lot for the non verbal children and for visual timetables. I told them from the onset that I'd prefer dd to use them at the minimum and I believe that they've been used as an occasional prompt in her case.

 

Tilly

[Jill]

I guess this is just restating the above, but it does emphasise the need to tailor PECS to the individual child.

 

The Boy (who is mostly non verbal) was first introduced to PECs during a session at our local Child Development Centre. He got very frustrated because he asked for "more drink" (one of the few phrases he knows) but they insisted on him giving them a card for a drink before they gave him one. In the end he gave up and lost his temper (he didn't get his drink, which annoyed me as he was clearly very thirsty).

 

However, as a visual timetable it's proven very useful. It helps him to understand the structure of his day & it calms him that he can refer to it to see what's coming next.

 

It's also helpful if we need to emphasise a verbal request that he would normally understand e.g. bath time, but he's not responding because he is focussed on something else.

 

He also finds it helpful to ask us for something when he doesn't know how to verbally request it because he doesn't know the word.

 

On the whole though, we use it to "plug the gap" for things he doesn't know the word for or to plan his day out for him. Generally, once he understands a request or knows the words / sentence to ask for what he wants, he gets cross if we then try to use PECs as well.

 

NB The Boy is definitely a visual learner.

[desperate]

There s often a discrepancy between speech and comprehension and although using pecs can be seen as a backwards step it can however be increasing the childs understanding of the world around them. It also can gice them more oppertunity to become more involved in choice, what to have for breakfast etc and help them to express likes and dislikes.

A verbal choice, do you want orange or blackcurrent squash, can often be answered with the last option, and not really the preferred answer.

 

It can help the over anxious or aggressive child by giving them another avenue to communicate with others.

[lil_me]

We found PECS style cards, but homemade not bought, a great help with my son, he's a very visual little boy, but not all are. I always say it's worth a try, if it helps great, if it doesn't at least you tried. Social stories don't work at all with my son but huge help with other kids I know.

[shamu]

Thanks for thre replies. I saw our OT yesterday and she's fantastic. She agrees that he is very verbal and that actually our priority is to work on his disorderedness (running around aimlessly looking lost and unhappy) first so we can then get him engaging in the SALT activities. She's going to do some joint sessions with the SaLT which should be good.

I guess they can't harm him, I just don't want him to end up in the situation described by a friend at her DD's special school where a verbal child who said "I want a drink please" wasn't allowed it until s/he used the PECS book!!!!

Shamu

[summertime]

I know this is late but not been around for a while and just wanted to add my 2 pence worth

 

Firstly PECS is a specific program, Picture Exchange Communication System which is the process of a child handing over the picture symbol to another person in aid to get what they require therefor developing the childs understanding that communication in a 2 way thing. previous to this makaton was used a lot and the child would sign their requirements but what in fact was happening in some cases was that the child would sign for a drink and a drink was given but the child never actually realised that someone else had to actually be there for this request to be fulfilled. a case in point to this was when a friend of mine (HT at a special school) found a child alone in the toilet signing for help but had no idea that as she was alone no one would be there to help her.

 

a lot af asd children although verbal, may lack the social skills to enable them to develop communication so this could be why PECS has been suggested and is why some verbal children are taught to use it although I would never condone it being used blanketly across the board for all asd children, some just dont need it at all and as others have said it can cause frustration and confusion if this is the case

 

On the other hand I class symbols as a different thing altogether when used independantly from PECS and I use them all the time for asd children and also NT children. I have introduced symbolic timetables into all of our mainstream classrooms and even the bright NT Y6 children find them reasurring and anxieties have been reduced. I cant see that using symbols can cause any harm and for children who take longer to process language they are a godsend