poo smearing

[jlp]

I've already asked this on another (general parenting forum) but haven't had any replies and it's worrying me so hope no-one minds me asking here?

 

Since Easter ds#2 (3 3/4) has started having lots (several times daily) of toileting accidents, wees and poos. He will go to the toilet too. I'm not sure how 'accidental' it is, he weed on the electric fire a few days ago (luckily he didn't hit anything electrical!).

 

We've just moved house which hasn't helped at all but he started at the beginning of the Easter holidays before we even knew we were moving so can't totally blame that.

 

He seems to play with it sometimes, particularly in the bath, and will smear it onto the walls. Tonight he pooed in the bath, had put poo on the wall and as I lent over to clean the wall he put it in my hair and on my top. I smacked his bum and feeling guilty now.

 

So...is this really disturbed behaviour (I'm sure I read that somewhere but not sure if it applies to 3 yr olds) or perfectly normal for a 3 3/4 year old. His behaviour has gone downhill since starting nursery really and I'm getting a bit worried but not sure if I'm reading too much into normal preschooler tantrums.

[mandyque]

I don't know with NT children, my guess is probably attention seeking perhaps? My ASD dd used to do it regularly and it was a sensory thing coupled with an issue at respite when they locked the bathroom so she would poo on the floor grrrr! It's proving to be a tough habit to break

 

You say your ds has just started nursery, these kinds of transitions can be tough to manage in NT children too, does he know that you aren't just leaving him there forever? Is he finding it difficult to settle and join in with the other kids there? Maybe a chat with his teacher might help, if she knows that he is having difficulties she will keep an eye on him.

[something vague]

Perhaps its a reaction to the stress of starting nursery and prolonged due to the house move.

 

I would suggest providing lots of opportunities for alternative messy sensory play.............shaving foam to play with in the bath or do they still make foamy soap that would be more suitable?

 

Also provide lots of finger painting, gloop, flour and water, playdo type activities so that if it is a need for sensory stimulation it can be satisfied in a more appropriate way.

 

Also perhaps a reward system for performing on the toilet.

 

Good luck

 

SV

[caren]

Only time i have dealt with this is with K ASD since he was 3 he's 7 this week and has a problem going for a poo so has powders in his drink but still wipes it on walls floor toilet on his body , hard habit to break for him at moment

[krystaltps]

C went through a phase of it last year (age 7). He was very stressed at school at the time so I can only think it had something to do with it. It didn't last long because I made him clean it up - not sure if 3yr old would manage that though.

Think it may be an ASD thing, as both my twins (NT) have never done it.

[Noetic]

I know I had a lot of bath-poo incidents until I was ca. 5 or so, even though I toilet-trained early (at ca. 2 1/2 - I HATED going in nappies, it felt horrible), although I never smeared (I usually didn't notice it was MY poo and was so shocked I thought someone had put it in there...)

 

I think at 3-4 it can be a fairly normal thing since kids do go through exploratory phases like that...

Edited May 28, 2007 by Noetic

[Cariad]

Yep we have the same here jlp, we too have a poo smearer. He is 11 and can't be left in the bath as he is so warm and comfy he releases his bowels . So now we stick to showers, set times for pooing (just before bed) so he is cleaned out.

 

He did this the other day, he pooed on the floor, played with it in his hands and smeared it over the walls, bed and carpet. He laughs when we say not to do it as it's dirty, the smell is in every fibre of his bedroom for weeks too.

[jlp]

It seems I am not alone!

 

I should have clarified really (reading my original post back it wasn't clear) but ds#2 (3) is nt and I have an older boy of 7 with AS.

 

I suppose my ongoing concern is whether ds#2 has some form of asd too and I'm wondering whether the poo smearing is a concern with regard to this. He was perfectly toilet trained for months (maybe 6?) prior to Easter so it's not that he never had the ability. He's also terrible for weeing when again he was absolutely fine.

 

When asked why he didn't poo in the toilet he'll say he doesn't like pooing in the toilet or that he likes poo.

 

I'm at the Child and Family Unit next Monday regarding ds#1 so may mention ds#2 too if only for some reassurance (they've been involved with ds#1 for quite a few years so have seen ds#2 since he was a baby)

 

Thank you for replying, any further thoughts on pooing / smearing (indicating ASD or normal in all children?) are very welcome!

 

Edited to add - my signature has come back (it had disappeared for some unknown reason as had all smilies) so I didn't need to explain about AS and NT after all!

Edited May 29, 2007 by jlp

[Diamondmask]

Both my kids have done, both are ASD mind. They have both eventually grown out of it as they have become toilet trained, but now and again when they are going through a tough time they will revert to smearing and other delightful behaviours!

 

I have to say though I have never heard of an NT child doing it, only ASD ones.

 

Sarah

[Noetic]

Does he have any other signs of ASD?

 

Poo smearing does happen more often on the spectrum and among kids with sensory issues *without* having an ASD, but if poo obsessions in NTs weren't something that happened from time to time I doubt Freud would have had so much to say about such, um, fecal matters

 

(Actually strictly speaking that may have had something to do with his own pant-wetting problems, although I am not sure that was 100% true and no something Jung came up to "discredit" him with)

Edited May 30, 2007 by Noetic

[darky]

my girl used to do this all the time at that age. that was one of the things that concerned me most about her at the time. she started smearing when she was 2 and stopped when she was about 5. nothing would stop her. nappies on backwards, full sleepsuits worn back to front. she would still greet me naked and poo and wee everywhere first thing in the morning. potty training her was a nightmare, had to watch her like a hawk as she would be sat on potty one min, and consuming the contents the next. it wasnt just the smearing but eating it as well. she would urinate in toy boxes and bath her toys in it as well. now she just rips paper, but i would rather that!

[jlp]

Does he have any other signs of ASD?

 

Poo smearing does happen more often on the spectrum and among kids with sensory issues *without* having an ASD, but if poo obsessions in NTs weren't something that happened from time to time I doubt Freud would have had so much to say about such, um, fecal matters

 

(Actually strictly speaking that may have had something to do with his own pant-wetting problems, although I am not sure that was 100% true and no something Jung came up to "discredit" him with)

 

Behavioural problems at the minute - he needs watched more than ds#1 does these days when we're out! He's unpredictable and will hit, push babies over or throw things.

 

Sometimes with a loud noise his hands go over his ears, other times he will ask Daddy to turn the music up!

 

He'd headbang as a baby and only ate fishfingers and rice cakes until he was about 2 1/2, he was also a nightmare to stop breastfeeding and was fed till he was 2 though so that might explain that.

 

He was a bit funny about wet things / dirt on his hands as a toddler.

 

He's like 2 seperate people - one sweet and social and chatty and the other hates everyone (he says), will try and bite, tanrums over things being 'right' for example not having the blue plate, he wants me to put his shoes on not Grandma, or today he dropped something in the car so to placate him I said I'd stop in a safe place, but I drove home (we were only a few minutes away) then he had a huge tantrum because we were home and not in a 'safe place' - things like that.

 

No querky obsessions like G had as a baby (washing machines, fans, lampshades), he does make eye contact.

 

I think when I get a minute I might look over my old posts as you forget things don't you?

[Noetic]

I'd keep an eye on it, it's often the case that sibs of auties/Aspies have some traits too (esp. sensory things, could be that he has sensory issues/sensory integration disorder) but not necessarily anything diagnosable. But at least you have the experience, you know?