employment for 18+

[jaalka]

Hello there.

As a new member, I am hoping to be able to share ideas with parents or others who have experienced the difficulties in securing suitable employment for their off-spring with Asperger's Syndrome. I have an 18 yr old who's ambition is to be a Police Officer in the Met. He has already had difficulty in sustaining long-term employment in the retail trade and I have concerns that a profession as a Police Officer may be unsustainable. I am hoping that within the police force there may well be a niche where he will fit in. I would be grateful for any ideas anyone may have.

[Canopus]

I think a police officer is one of the worst careers for somebody with AS.

 

The police force employ thousands of people in support roles who usually work in an office environment. Many of these should be suitable for people with AS. Vacancies are advertised on the websites of individual forces. There is also the possibility of forensics but high level qualifications are required.

[jaalka]

I think a police officer is one of the worst careers for somebody with AS.

 

The police force employ thousands of people in support roles who usually work in an office environment. Many of these should be suitable for people with AS. Vacancies are advertised on the websites of individual forces. There is also the possibility of forensics but high level qualifications are required.

 

Thank you for your reply. I read with interest your Asperger Technical site. I'm hoping that my son will realise his forte within the technical/gadget area and look within this for employment, rather than the police. It is more the controlling aspect of the police he is interested in than the community aspect. I will refer to your site. If you can suggest anything I would be grateful.

[pearl]

Hello jaalka & welcome to the forum.

 

My son JP secured an apprenticeship a few months ago - he doesnt start till August so early days yet but so far the signs are good, we feel the close supervision & further study is an ideal transition from college to the world of work. And the induction pack we have just received makes it clear that they want to work in partnership with parents, which is a huge relief to us.

 

There are all sorts of apprenticeships from all sorts of providers - Connexions might be a good place to start if you think it might suit your lad.

 

Good luck.

[Kathryn]

Hi jaalka,

 

This is something which concerns me too as the parent of an 18 year old who is still working towards GCSE level qualifications. She has many talents and interests and I think will find it hard to settle on one thing and apply herself to it for a long period of time.

 

We're looking around for opportunities which will give her some kind of work experience. At her own request, the college have arranged for her to get some work experience in a school library, but that won't start till next year. She keeps changing her mind about what she wants to do in the long term. Whatever she does she will need a lot of support, not just because of AS but physical difficulties which mean that she tires easily and it's unlikely that she'd be able to do a full week's work or study - at the moment anyway. People will need to make allowances for this and understand that she is not just being lazy. I think some kind of voluntary work would be a good way for her to find out what she's capable of.

 

We've found the Connexions advisor and college tutor very helpful - so, as pearl said, the Connexions service might be a useful starting point.

 

K x

Edited July 15, 2007 by Kathryn

[jaalka]

Hello jaalka & welcome to the forum.

 

My son JP secured an apprenticeship a few months ago - he doesnt start till August so early days yet but so far the signs are good, we feel the close supervision & further study is an ideal transition from college to the world of work. And the induction pack we have just received makes it clear that they want to work in partnership with parents, which is a huge relief to us.

 

There are all sorts of apprenticeships from all sorts of providers - Connexions might be a good place to start if you think it might suit your lad.

 

Good luck.

 

Thank you Pearl. Have not been impressed with Connexions so far - it could well have been that we were just unlucky with that particular member of staff. I may well revisit them.

[jaalka]

Hi jaalka,

 

This is something which concerns me too as the parent of an 18 year old who is still working towards GCSE level qualifications. She has many talents and interests and I think will find it hard to settle on one thing and apply herself to it for a long period of time.

 

We're looking around for opportunities which will give her some kind of work experience. At her own request, the college have arranged for her to get some work experience in a school library, but that won't start till next year. She keeps changing her mind about what she wants to do in the long term. Whatever she does she will need a lot of support, not just because of AS but physical difficulties which mean that she tires easily and it's unlikely that she'd be able to do a full week's work or study - at the moment anyway. People will need to make allowances for this and understand that she is not just being lazy. I think some kind of voluntary work would be a good way for her to find out what she's capable of.

 

We've found the Connexions advisor and college tutor very helpful - so, as pearl said, the Connexions service might be a useful starting point.

 

K x

Hi again Kathryn. There seems to be a huge void in the expertise of organisations who have indepth knowledge of AS. My son is currently with the Disability Employment Adviser at the Job Centre who has referred him to the Work Psychologist who then referred him to the Royal British Legion Industry ...and is awaiting an appointment.

 

I'm in the process of enquiring with the RBLI as to what level of expertise they have of AS and Aspbergs in particular, although they hv already confirmed they do not have indepth understanding of individual disorders, just a general understanding. Prospects in London seemed the ideal place as the're level of knowledge on AS is high but my son is not eligible as he lives just on the boundary of Kent/London.

 

The WPsy basically asked him: Have you thought about what you'd like to do? He replied: Be a Police Officer. That was it. The WPsy immediately referred him back to the DEA with a recommendation that he be referred on the RBLI. My son omitted to tell the WPsy that he also "wouldn't mind being ... cabin crew attendant..car insurance salesman...air traffic controller"...and a host others. As a professional WPsy,I thought that she may have pressed him further with questions on what/where he'd like to work??? Perhaps that may have rang alarm bells and and she may hv carried out some form of pychometric testing to ascertain just where his strengths/weaknesses were!

 

I find it frustrating to say the least. I will certainly keep an open mind with the RBLI and will let you know how he gets on.

 

In your daughter's case, I do feel that voluntary work is a sensible option but only if the person in question is not money oriented! My son wouldn't even contemplate working for nothing!

 

J.

[Canopus]

Hi again Kathryn. There seems to be a huge void in the expertise of organisations who have indepth knowledge of AS.

 

This was one of the reasons why Asperger Technical was established. So far there have been people with AS contacting the organisation from as far afield as Canada and Norway asking for advice. The traffic statistics include people from Estonia, New Zealand, Italy, and Turkey. Unfortunately no industrial partners have been found yet but it's only early days. I think once a few organisations come forward it will trigger a chain reaction.

 

cabin crew attendant..car insurance salesman...air traffic controller

 

These are not the career choices you would expect to find someone with AS interested in.

[pearl]

Thank you Pearl. Have not been impressed with Connexions so far - it could well have been that we were just unlucky with that particular member of staff. I may well revisit them.

 

Your disability advisor at the Jobcentre is another port of call.

[Canopus]

Your disability advisor at the Jobcentre is another port of call.

 

I have never used the services at the Job Centre but have encountered several other people with AS who have. The quality of service is very invariable and depends on the person who is providing it. Most staff at the Job Centre have very little understanding of AS, and there isn't a box on any of the documentation or software for AS or ASD on the list of disabilities. It usually ends up as learning disabilities. Even the general advice on employment leaves a lot to be desired. One member of staff wasn't even aware that private sector advertisements rarely have closing dates, or that employment agencies regularly advertise nonexistent jobs just to get more people on their databases.

[pearl]

They can all advise on apprenticeship providers in the area though. It doesnt even have to be the disability advisor. I do agree the support is variable. Mr pearl works in the front line at the job centre, & is very clued up. Most of the disability advisors he knows he also reckons are very good. But you always get the odd useless one.

[jaalka]

This was one of the reasons why Asperger Technical was established. So far there have been people with AS contacting the organisation from as far afield as Canada and Norway asking for advice. The traffic statistics include people from Estonia, New Zealand, Italy, and Turkey. Unfortunately no industrial partners have been found yet but it's only early days. I think once a few organisations come forward it will trigger a chain reaction.

These are not the career choices you would expect to find someone with AS interested in.

I have realised that the areas my son is looking at are areas in which involve a great deal of social interaction and this is a difficult area for him. What areas of employment would you suggest he looks to? He is gadget minded with a technical interest. IT was he forte at school (GCSE one point below an A!) with Science Maths and Media GCSE B. English his weakest subject at an E.

[Canopus]

I have realised that the areas my son is looking at are areas in which involve a great deal of social interaction and this is a difficult area for him. What areas of employment would you suggest he looks to? He is gadget minded with a technical interest. IT was he forte at school (GCSE one point below an A!) with Science Maths and Media GCSE B. English his weakest subject at an E.

 

Difficult to say really. The IT industry is not in a very good state and competition for jobs is quite fierce at the moment, but he might be able to find some junior level IT job somewhere around. Public administration could be another choice. It's quite dull but said to be good for people with AS who don't have lots of qualifications. Retail banking could be another possibility although banks tend to subject applicants to all these stupid aptitude and personality profiling tests.

 

I'm wondering if that English GCSE grade could hinder him. If it does then I suggest taking an English Language IGCSE. This is all examination with no coursework, and no heavyweight literature.

[pearl]

Sorry to bang on about apprenticeships jaalka (its kind of where we're at at the mo) dovetails with what Canopus is saying though, your lad could do an IT apprenticeship. JP went for one but didnt get it, then got a business admin one instead & he's hoping to segue into IT work from it. What attracts us is theres plenty of supervision, they recognise that many apprentices are quite young & need shepherding, which is ideal for someone on the spectrum.

[jaalka]

I'm wondering if that English GCSE grade could hinder him. If it does then I suggest taking an English Language IGCSE. This is all examination with no coursework, and no heavyweight literature.

 

Learn Direct has offered an english GCSE equivalent but J has yet to take it up. Still pursuing this area. Have been referred to RBLI (Royal British Legion Industries) via DEA who have 9/52 work prep scheme including work experience with 'forward thinking' employers. Sounds promising. Thanks for your advice Canopus.

[jaalka]

Sorry to bang on about apprenticeships jaalka (its kind of where we're at at the mo) dovetails with what Canopus is saying though, your lad could do an IT apprenticeship. JP went for one but didnt get it, then got a business admin one instead & he's hoping to segue into IT work from it. What attracts us is theres plenty of supervision, they recognise that many apprentices are quite young & need shepherding, which is ideal for someone on the spectrum.

 

Please don't apologise Pearl! Any advice is much appreciated. Apprenticeships have not been thought of previously but, as mentioned to Canopus, J's now been referred to the RBLI and an apprenticeship is an area that will be mentioned. Start date is end of August for the work prep programme. Wondering if Mr Pearl is aware of this Government run scheme with the DEA?

[pearl]

I shall ask him, jaalka. As for the english gcse, JP got a D which again is less than ideal, but at college did key skills communications level 2 which raised his grade to a C. We had no idea this was possible so was a nice surprise.

[Canopus]

An electronic engineering apprenticeship is being offered by a certain university. I will PM the details if you are interested.

[jaalka]

An electronic engineering apprenticeship is being offered by a certain university. I will PM the details if you are interested.

That would be appreciated.Thanks.

[jaalka]

I shall ask him, jaalka. As for the english gcse, JP got a D which again is less than ideal, but at college did key skills communications level 2 which raised his grade to a C. We had no idea this was possible so was a nice surprise.

J has the details from Learn Direct for the key skills level 2 but is not interested in persuing this, despite realising it would be in his interest. I will endeavour to encourage.

[pearl]

J has the details from Learn Direct for the key skills level 2 but is not interested in persuing this, despite realising it would be in his interest. I will endeavour to encourage.

When JP started college they did their best to persuade him to retake English GCSE but he wouldnt hear of it. I think he thought he didnt have a choice about Key Skills very glad now he did it.

[Kathryn]

L left school before taking any GCSE's and after a gap of almost 3 years she's has just done literacy level 2 and found it OK. We're just waiting for the results. She's doing the maths in September.

 

K x

[Canopus]

Are aptitude tests used when selecting people for apprenticeships? I was informed that they are, but I don't know all that much about apprenticeships.

[pearl]

Are aptitude tests used when selecting people for apprenticeships? I was informed that they are, but I don't know all that much about apprenticeships.

 

Yes. If you can find my very first apprenticeship thread the whole grisly saga is there.

For the first one JP went for, he had to do a psychometrics test .... basically we found practice ones online & showed JP how to answer to impress. Problem with extra time as computer based, couldnt go in a separate room as networked, etc etc, that was the time when I was called a "forceful mother" for fighting for adjustments. However, despite all the worry he came top of the group!

 

The city council apprenticeship that he actually got was MUCH better. No psychometrics, they sent us practice papers, basic literacy/numeracy etc, they had no problem allowing 25% extra time, a separate room & his ESW present.

 

So you can see our experience has been very varied.

[Canopus]

Can a company refuse to employ somebody or allow them in for interview if they refuse to take a psychometric test or personality profile?

[pearl]

I don't know. He got through them ok so it wasnt an issue. I do doubt their validity though, it seems to be the latest fashion in some employers. As I said, our city council, a major employer in the area, doesnt bother with them.

[KMC]

I've worked for a number of companies that use psychometric testing and had to do a course on how to determine the outcome of the tests as a hiring Manager

 

Best way to do them is to be honest about what you say. There are ways to manipulate them but ultimately all they do is give an indication of the type of person you are looking at. The last time I did one (March this year), it said that I didnt like social situations - suprise!

 

As an employer, the mix of people you look for is varied. I have never turned someone away purely on the results of a test. On the other hand, I have looked at a test, and re-interviewed someone because of it. Example was where a test said that someone would crumble under pressure. We gave him a very high pressure interview and he did crumble. Unfortunately the job he was going for meant that I needed someone who could function calmly under high pressure.

 

Sometimes I have found the tests to be of value when managing individuals. I had a team member who never seemed to focus and was constantly socialising with anyone who walked past his desk. He spent more time talking than working. After lots of chats, I eventually re-read his psychometric test which said that he wouldnt work well without social interaction. We changed his job to being a technical liaison and he went from nealy being fired to getting promoted all in the space of 12 months.

 

I have not hired someone because they didnt fit the role they were applying for but re-interviewed the same person 8 years later and hired them because they fitted the role I needed to fill at the time.

 

Psychometric testing is quite straightforward and very easy. Just be honest when you are filling in the form and you'll be fine. Mostly it a choice of things such as "I prefer reading to going to the pub" and you mark if the statement is true or false. There are no right or wrong answers and if you do try and manipulate the answers, you will more than likely get caught out.

[pearl]

Thanks KMC thats really interesting. They did say at JPs test that you couldnt pass or fail, it just gave an indication of personality. That said, we did try & get him to look out for things that might trip him up, for instance one of the online ones said something like, people say I can be abrupt, rude or something, (cant quite remember the wording), well most people would know that it would be a bit dangerous to agree with that statement, but someone with AS might not, & if someone had said in the past they were rude, might agree. Most of the questions did seem fairly innocuous though. Certainly, from our experience, I wouldnt be looking to get him exempted from any future ones.

[Canopus]

The Myers-Briggs personality profile was developed in the US during the 1940s before conditions like AS were known about in English speaking countries. There is certainly some controversy whether it is applicable to people with AS and HFA, and whether it produces misleading or unreasonable results or not. Very little research has been performed into psychometric testing and AS.

 

Companies do have optimum personality profiles and reject people who are not of the optimum profile because they feel they won't fit in with the ethos of the company or be compatible with existing employees. If you don't believe me then why are these tests often performed before interviews rather than after the person has been sworn into the company.

[pearl]

I've just realised reading back I made a misleading post, I said JP came top of the psychometric tests, what I should have clarified is that he came top of the other computer tests, numeracy, literacy, spatial awareness etc as the entire thing was computer based. My gripe was more that because they were computer based it was harder to make reasonable adjustment for him, they couldnt give extra time etc, however we practised hard & he did them easily.

 

I'd say the best thing to do with psychometric tests is practise in advance, as KMC says theres no right or wrong answers, but practising just gets you used to the kind of things they ask. I dont believe it influenced their decision not to hire JP, they just wanted to put the right people in each of the different vacancies. They rejected him on interview performance and the team building task, but my objection was that it was their lack of observation, not JP's team performance, that was at fault. They had to build a tower out of playing cards. JP's contribution was to say to the others that, if you bent the cards slightly, you got more staying power, & from that advice his team ended up building the tallest tower. But only his ESW, who was present, noticed that. They werent good enough at observing, and missed his vital contribution. And if his ESW hadnt been there, I would never have known that, and assumed they were right, after all Aspies "arent good at teamwork" are they?

 

Interviewing is as subject to fashion as anything else in the workplace, and unfortunately it can sometimes make it harder for someone on the spectrum to shine. I would like to see much more flexibility in the process, work trials etc, in the same way that for instance, at A level you take an exam, but if you do a BTec its continuous assessment with no exam, but its the same academic level. The 2 qualifications suit 2 different learning styles.

[Canopus]

I'd say the best thing to do with psychometric tests is practise in advance, as KMC says theres no right or wrong answers, but practising just gets you used to the kind of things they ask.

 

There is always a question of whether these psychometric tests have any value or not. I was talking to a manager of a company who opposed these tests on the grounds that they are stupid and pointless. He said that it would be better off subjecting applicants to chess game.

 

Interviewing is as subject to fashion as anything else in the workplace, and unfortunately it can sometimes make it harder for someone on the spectrum to shine.

 

I agree with you that it is a fashion craze implemented without even questioning the credibility of such exercises. I would like to set up a movement against psychometric testing and a charter mark for companies to say that they do not use psychometric tests. Is anybody here interested in contributing to the cause or will I have to go it alone?

[pearl]

There is always a question of whether these psychometric tests have any value or not. I was talking to a manager of a company who opposed these tests on the grounds that they are stupid and pointless. He said that it would be better off subjecting applicants to chess game.

I agree with you that it is a fashion craze implemented without even questioning the credibility of such exercises. I would like to set up a movement against psychometric testing and a charter mark for companies to say that they do not use psychometric tests. Is anybody here interested in contributing to the cause or will I have to go it alone?

 

Well, I dont think I know enough about it to say yea or nay, Canopus. Yes, I think it is a current trend which may fade, but I was also interested to hear of the real benefits that KMC described. That could work in favour of someone with AS, in a job where AS traits are useful, such as attention to detail, in depth knowledge, reliability etc. That would show up clearly in a psychometric test if those skills are what is needed.

 

I certainly didnt feel happy about JP being subjected to them, and still prefer the more straightforward way he was treated by city council, (who offered him the job), but I honestly don't think it made any difference to his chances.

[Canopus]

That could work in favour of someone with AS, in a job where AS traits are useful, such as attention to detail, in depth knowledge, reliability etc. That would show up clearly in a psychometric test if those skills are what is needed.

 

This has crossed my mind, but if companies REALLY wanted people with AS then they would take a more proactive approach to finding and recruiting them rather than subjecting applicants to psychometric tests. I think in the majority of cases companies want people with a solidly neurotypical profile.

[pearl]

This has crossed my mind, but if companies REALLY wanted people with AS then they would take a more proactive approach to finding and recruiting them rather than subjecting applicants to psychometric tests. I think in the majority of cases companies want people with a solidly neurotypical profile.

I suppose companies want people who can do the job. Whether they are AS or NT is irrelevant to them. I doubt AS figures largely in HR's consciousness. Theres still huge ignorance about ASD's out there, employers wont necessarily know automatically that their particular job would suit someone with AS. Its just skills to fit the job. IF AS skills are good for a particular job, then surely its enough for AS peeps to apply along with everyone else, so long as reasonable adjustments are made?

[Canopus]

I suppose companies want people who can do the job. Whether they are AS or NT is irrelevant to them.

 

This is the attitude from days gone by. If the attitude still held today then there would be no reason to use psychometric tests.

 

I doubt AS figures largely in HR's consciousness. Theres still huge ignorance about ASD's out there, employers wont necessarily know automatically that their particular job would suit someone with AS. Its just skills to fit the job. IF AS skills are good for a particular job, then surely its enough for AS peeps to apply along with everyone else, so long as reasonable adjustments are made?

 

Most employers have never even heard of AS. Testing applicants has been done for hundreds of years, but until recently the tests were generally either basic English / maths type skills, or something that was directly relevant to the job. Failing these tests generally meant that you were not suitable for the job. I have no objection to these types of tests being used because they are usually honest and realistic. I have been subjected to written tests during interviews for C programming and handling everyday situations within the company and I was happy to do them.

 

The psychometric tests are usually very detached from the nature of the job and handling everyday situations which is why some people have a distrust of them at interview stage.

[pearl]

Sorry jaalka, this has gone WAY off your original query! I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one Canopus.

[Canopus]

I was at a meeting discussing employment and AS. One of the things discussed were good and bad careers for people with AS. Some of the careers deemed as good for people without degrees are:

 

MOT tester

Jeweller / watch repairs

Locksmith

Hospital lab technician

Restoration of antiques, fine arts, and furniture

Tuning and servicing of musical instruments

Technical photographer

[pixie]

This is a thread I can join in with as I have a daughter who left her special school with very little in the way of qualifications age 16.

She went on to a special needs college for 3 years.

 

She has always said she wants to work with Autistic children as a teaching assistant.

 

We thought "no way" because she also has Tourette's Syndrome as well as a few other letters after her name.

 

She started mainstream college doing a teaching assistants course and passed with distinction.

 

During the course she had to have a placement as a school so she has been working voluntarily with Autistic kids for the last year.

 

The school "suggested" she apply for a vacancy to start in September. She got the job.

 

Obviously it is early days as she hasn't started yet but her year of voluntary work has shown us and the school that she can do the job.

 

It just goes to show how wrong we were to think "no way".

[Clare63]

Pixie,

Thats fantastic news, well done to your daughter. Thanks for sharing such an inspirational story it gives me hope for the future..

 

Clare x x x

[pixie]

Pixie,

Thats fantastic news, well done to your daughter. Thanks for sharing such an inspirational story it gives me hope for the future..

 

Clare x x x

 

I was hoping that is how my daughters story would be received.

 

If someone had told me that when my daughter was younger I would have said they were mad.

 

She had no DX until she was 14 and all the powers that be offered was a secure unit.

 

We fought that decision tooth and nail and eventually won her a place at a fantastic Autistic school.

 

She has grown from then on and ended up where she is now.

 

I know all kids are different but I really do hope it brings some hope to people. xx

Edited July 27, 2007 by pixie