HFA/Aspergers

[bluefish]

can anyone tell me the difference.

[Karen A]

Hi bluefish.

In theory there are two differences between HFA and Asperger's syndrome.

In autism the person may have additional learning difficulties [below average IQ] While in Asperger's syndrome the person has average or above average IQ.

Also in Asperger's syndrome there is no significant language delay whereas in Autism there is a language delay such as a child not using words by the age of 2.

However when this topic has been talked about before it has been demonstrated that in practice things are more complicated. Karen.

[baddad]

Yep, karen's hit the nail on the head...

Many professionals are starting to question the distinctions between the two conditions - what qualifies as a 'significant language delay'? etc...

Tony Attwood (I think) described the difference as being 'largely a matter of spelling'

 

L&P

 

BD

[Tally]

Tony Attwood says that the only difference is the spelling.

 

The diagnostic criteria for Asperger's do allow for some language delay. Once speech develops though, there can be no apparent difference between the two.

 

A diagnosis of autism can allow access to more support than a diagnosis of AS.

[cattubb]

My son was diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome 3 weeks ago and my husband asked what the difference between AS and HFA is and we were told that people with Autism would probably have had a significant language delay and that people with Aspergers would have normal or even early speech development and also above average IQ. My son definately fits the bill for Aspergers!

 

Cattubb

[Flora]

Another difference that often (but not always) crops up is coordination. People with AS tend to have a history of significant motorcordination difficulties. I can see the huge difference between my two boys, one is classic AS with severe coordination difficulties, the other is ASD with some very good coordination (though he does have problems with convergence so has difficulty catching a ball, but can ride a bike and play golf with no problems).

 

flora

[Mumble]

Another difference that often (but not always) crops up is coordination. People with AS tend to have a history of significant motorcordination difficulties.

I didn't know that. That's interesting. Me . . . Coordination . . . :whistle:

 

In adults, there is no difference between the two - because language delay has been 'sorted' through the progress of time. AS has been described as autism in its pure form. I'm still trying to figure out my feelings on this one.

 

Unfortunatly Tally does have a point about different DXs leading to different services. There's also the issue of people's understandings of the two. I myself use the terms interchangably depending on my audience and the point I want to make. I have no problem describing myself both as autistic and aspergers. To me both are true and just help different people to understand me.

[Canopus]

I read somewhere that HFA and AS produces different results on the Myers-Briggs test. However, no large scale investigations of people diagnosed with HFA or AS using Myers-Briggs has ever been carried out. The Myers-Briggs test was designed without the knowledge of HFA or AS so cannot be used as a reliable means of identifying people with these conditions.

[cattubb]

Thats really true about the coordination thing. I'm not sure about catching balls etc. because my son has no interest in physical activities (its computers/tv/lego nothing else) but he is definately really clumsy and kind of awkward. When hes walking his feet sort of get in the way of each other and also when i hold his hand he holds himself really 'heavy' if you know what i mean. He is also always falling over and dropping things. Hes also got a bit of an odd walk which is becoming more pronounced as he becomes older (hes almost 5 with AS)

 

cattubb

[Ian Jordan]

Thats really true about the coordination thing. I'm not sure about catching balls etc. because my son has no interest in physical activities (its computers/tv/lego nothing else) but he is definately really clumsy and kind of awkward. When hes walking his feet sort of get in the way of each other and also when i hold his hand he holds himself really 'heavy' if you know what i mean. He is also always falling over and dropping things. Hes also got a bit of an odd walk which is becoming more pronounced as he becomes older (hes almost 5 with AS)

 

cattubb

 

 

He needs to have his visual processing assessed as a matter of urgency

[cattubb]

Hi Ian,

 

how would i go about doing that i.e. who do I ask? Would it be the CAHMS team? They've told me to get in touch whenever?

 

I'm still a bit unsure on these things as this is all new to us we've only been in the 'system' since January and had a diagnosis for 3 weeks!

 

Thanks,

 

cattubb

[Janey]

He needs to have his visual processing assessed as a matter of urgency

 

Hi Ian, can you explain a bit more about visual processing? Cattub has just described my son.

 

 

Janey

[Caroline-]

Hi all, very interesting topic! My son couldn't form any words until he was 3, he stopped seeing the speech & lanuage lady when he was in year 1 at school (then aged 6) now he doesn't stop talking, lol!! To strangers he is very clumbsy but he was dx with poor fine motor co-ordination at an early age, still has great difficulty in catching a ball, riding a bike & playing football...so much so that he just gives up or gets very frustrated & upset

 

We finally had his full assessment appointment come through today for him to see a Consultant Psychiatrist, Staff Grade Psychiatrist (both from CAMHS) & his Paediatrician on the 6th Feb

[Canopus]

Another difference that often (but not always) crops up is coordination.

 

Are you sure about this one? I though the co-ordination issue is part of the difference between AS and conventional Kanner autism rather than between AS and HFA.

 

I can remember a time when a psychologist was intrigued with my co-ordination problems and commented that it isn't a feature of (Kanner) autism because he knew numerous autistic kids that had absolutely no problems with co-ordination, bike riding, and PE.

[Bard]

Are you sure about this one? I though the co-ordination issue is part of the difference between AS and conventional Kanner autism rather than between AS and HFA.

 

I can remember a time when a psychologist was intrigued with my co-ordination problems and commented that it isn't a feature of (Kanner) autism because he knew numerous autistic kids that had absolutely no problems with co-ordination, bike riding, and PE.

 

B has excellent fine motor control and poor gross motor control.

He is G & T for art across the board from fine pencil sketches to model-making, weaving and sewing.

He can kayak well, because it's a simple movement and his focus isn't split.

Anything with a bat and ball, or badminton...NO!

Football...NO!

Hockey he manages a little better, but not shooting for goal. Rugby the same, and he enjoys both although he's not skilled. He runs with power but no style or smoothness.

He nearly drown when trying out scuba, because he couldn't coordinate breathing and swimming at the same time.

He can't ride a bike or skateboard or rollerblade or ordinary roller skates, and he has tried to the point of repeated injury.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Bard

[Flora]

Canopus, I did say not always!

 

You may be right. although it was once possible that my youngest had kanners, it certainly isn't now as he is far too high functioning as he has matured.

 

I do remember reading, but can't remember where, that motorcoordination problems are seen more specifically in AS, but that classic autists often have good coordiantion but could also have co-morbid dyspraxia. There is a difference between motorcordination problems and dyspraxia (I'm not sure what that is though!); we always thought Bill had dyspraxia, and it was in fact part of his original dx, but he has recently had a fully OT assessment and she said not dyspraxia, but motor coordination disorder with underlying sensory integration dysfunction.

 

flora

[Mumble]

There is a difference between motorcordination problems and dyspraxia (I'm not sure what that is though!); we always thought Bill had dyspraxia, and it was in fact part of his original dx, but he has recently had a fully OT assessment and she said not dyspraxia, but motor coordination disorder with underlying sensory integration dysfunction.

Oooh. Do you think there's any benefit to the different dx? My dx is AS with dyspraxia and alexithymia comorbids. Since seeing Ian and finding out how many of the difficulties are sensory related, I'm wondering now. Do you think there's any benefit to trying to find out exactly what the 'label' is, particularly as more people are likely to have heard of dyspraxia than other labels and it does describe some of my issues quite well?

[Flora]

Mumble

 

I don't know of the benefits of differentiating between the two. I am still puzzled as to what the difference is between motor coordination disorder and dyspraxia. I think from reading the report that it may be something to do with one being a stand alone dx (dyspraxia) and the other being the result of AS and sensory integration dysfunction; ie, if you can deal with the sensory problems then the coordination difficulties should improve; but I suspect there's probably more to it than that. The OT did say that some of his difficulties are 'dyspraxic in nature', which makes it even more confusing!

 

I definately think it is worth having a full OT assessment, if only to identify the areas and type of difficulties. There are different types of sensory disorders; bill is 'sensory avoiding', whereas some people are 'sensory seeking'. There is a sensory profile questionnaire which can be used from 11 years onwards (adults and adolescents), which identifies the areas of difficulties and whether a person is sensory avoiding or seeking. I also think the profile can change; as there is definately some evidence that when Bill was much younger he was sensory seeking; he used to toe walk, he used to like me to tie a scarf tightly round his head at bed time etc. Much of what he does now is sensory avoiding, although he does use some sensory seeking in order to help with his spacial awareness. It's all so complicated and confusing!!!!

 

Flora X

[Flora]

Mumble

 

I don't know of the benefits of differentiating between the two. I am still puzzled as to what the difference is between motor coordination disorder and dyspraxia. I think from reading the report that it may be something to do with one being a stand alone dx (dyspraxia) and the other being the result of AS and sensory integration dysfunction; ie, if you can deal with the sensory problems then the coordination difficulties should improve; but I suspect there's probably more to it than that. The OT did say that some of his difficulties are 'dyspraxic in nature', which makes it even more confusing!

 

I definately think it is worth having a full OT assessment, if only to identify the areas and type of difficulties. There are different types of sensory disorders; bill is 'sensory avoiding', whereas some people are 'sensory seeking'. There is a sensory profile questionnaire which can be used from 11 years onwards (adults and adolescents), which identifies the areas of difficulties and whether a person is sensory avoiding or seeking. I also think the profile can change; as there is definately some evidence that when Bill was much younger he was sensory seeking; he used to toe walk, he used to like me to tie a scarf tightly round his head at bed time etc. Much of what he does now is sensory avoiding, although he does use some sensory seeking in order to help with his spacial awareness. It's all so complicated and confusing!!!!

 

Flora X

[Karen A]

Hi.Personaly I think that exactly what label is given may well depend on the proffesional more than anything...Developmental Coordination Disorder,Dyspraxia,Sensory Integration Dysfunction....may all be used by different people to describe various aspects of the same thing.I don't think that the label is that important.What really makes a difference is the availability of appropriate provision.

Ben has a Dx of Developmental Coordination Disorder with Social Communication Difficulties .However professionals have debated whether a Dx of AS would be more appropriate.It depends partly on what the professional emphasis is.Karen.

[Canopus]

I do remember reading, but can't remember where, that motorcoordination problems are seen more specifically in AS, but that classic autists often have good coordiantion but could also have co-morbid dyspraxia.

 

I remember reading something along the lines of this but can't remember exactly where.

 

I am still puzzled as to what the difference is between motor coordination disorder and dyspraxia. I think from reading the report that it may be something to do with one being a stand alone dx (dyspraxia) and the other being the result of AS and sensory integration dysfunction; ie, if you can deal with the sensory problems then the coordination difficulties should improve; but I suspect there's probably more to it than that. The OT did say that some of his difficulties are 'dyspraxic in nature', which makes it even more confusing!

 

I think there is a difference between pure dyspraxia that affects NT people and doesn't have any of the sensory issues, and the dyspraxia that affects people with AS or ASD and comes with various sensory issues. There are some kids with co-ordination problems that manage to partially overcome the problem and become highly skilled at activities such as ball juggling, BMX stuntriding, and rock climbing, but remain hopeless in situations where they have to keep track of several things moving in all directions such as team sports or driving on busy road junctions.

[Bard]

That sounds like my B. He's getting better with roads, but it would only take one thing to break his concentration, eg a cat on the other side of the road, to turn him into roadkill. Same with the team sports stuff.

Edited December 22, 2007 by Bard