School Refusal!!!!

[flower23]

Hi,

Feeling a little bit in dispair today, after another bad week before and after school....

My seven year old was diagnosed with Aspergers last July and since the start of term last September , things have rapidly gone downhill...and I am walking on eggshells every morning, to see whether he is going to have a meltdown before school...

 

We seem to make a couple of days then its meltdown time,, this can be in the evening , morning or just because his cereal isnt Full to the Top!! lol....

 

The headmaster just doesnt get it,,!!! and today was the last straw when I insisted that it was in school where the problem must be, his anxiety levels must be sky high trying to fit in with no extra help... his work is fine and just under where it is supposed to be,, (which is good to say he misses a few lessons coming in late etc )

 

Because he has no special education needs the headmaster just cant understand it... and today told me " he felt that it might be a control thing from my Son.!!! and no matter what we will get to the bottom of this even if the answer is something we dont want to hear!!!!"

 

My son has been taken in his pj's crying, i have had my hair pulled , kicked and things thrown at me ,, verbal and spitting and its getting worse..

 

The headmaster has informed the Inclusion Unit , but not chased it up,, this was before Christmas, and today I have finally arranged to speak to the Education Psychologist on Tuesday ...

 

I don't know what to expect as I am new to all this, but I know it must be school.. has anyone got any advice..??? His behaviour is fine at school, and once he is there is enjoys it even after a meltdown...

 

Any advice anyone!!! Please???

[Moll]

You son has a dx then the school have to respect this please remember the head in not in charge of the school, call up and ask who the governor in charge of disabilities is and request a meeting with them explain that he has a disability and the head is failing to recognise this, as for a way forward to be worked out, would a shorted school day work is it too busy on a morning?

 

often many people don't see ASD as a genuine disability like wheelchair use. I would request that the head reads the National Autistic Society's website and once he has done that have a meeting with you and the governor to work forward.

[Karen A]

Hi flower welcome to posting on the Forum but sorry that things are difficult at the momment. <'>

There are lots of people around on the Forum who find that their children hold it together at school but then are very unsettled at home.

There is a very good thread on the topic that I will find in a minute.

Does your DS have any support from ASD outreach ?

In my area ASD outreach support children even where there are no obvious accademic difficulties.Children who have AS who are bright can still find school a stressful place.Relationships and friendships become a lot more complex in KS2 at primary school and the playground can be more difficult than the classroom .Karen.

[Karen A]

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...ent+home+school

This is the thread.[ Nellie.I still can never find it when I want it.]Karen.

[chris54]

We seem to make a couple of days then its meltdown time, this can be in the evening , morning or just because his cereal isnt Full to the Top!!

 

My own son has tantrums (I don't like the term meltdown), they are almost always started by something not being as he thinks it should be, in his eyes that is.

It can be small things that you would not consider of any significance, but soon escalate out of all proportion if not handled right. Most mornings yes its eggshell time, but that is "normal"isn't it?? Always has been for my so why not my son.

School days are stressful in the mornings as you are watching the clock and don't have the luxury of time. I allow an hours from when I first get my son up to when it is time to leave for school and there is only me and him there. My wife stays out of the way as she knows that if she is around he will feel more stress.

Non school days no problem but then it might be 2 or 3 hours from when he gets up to when he needs to be ready to go out. But even then if its not somewhere he wants to go then-- Stand well back.

 

He does not like school in as much he would prefer not to go, would prefer to be doing other things but, and I may make my self unpopular by saying this, I do not see that school courses him to lose it when not at school, anymore that any other aspect of his life. On the whole he enjoys school, and in his own way the company of the other children. He has had the odd run in with them and some of what is going on at times goes over his head, the other children that is. He does not cope well with the unstructed part of the day as, in the words of the EP he does not know how to play, which I would agree with. He likes the work, not to good at some of it. Gets up to 15 hours of 1 to 1, bit hit and miss at the moment as this is under SA+, hoping soon to get a statement, but we will see.

 

What I am hoping is that as he becomes more aware of other children's view of him he will be able to deal with it.

Edited January 23, 2009 by chris54

[NobbyNobbs]

from the schools point of view - the fact that his work is good would suggest he has little to no problems with stress or anxiety once he is in school and settled. stressed children struggle to concentrate and this comes out in their work. also you didn't mention any behavioural issues within school. if he isn't having any, again the school will see that there aren't any issues within the actual school day.

 

i'll probably get shouted down for saying that so i'll clarify -

i'm not saying there isn't an issue, there clearly is, but it might not be with the school day itself, to me it sounds more like it is the idea of going to school that is a problem for your son, not actually being there or anything which happens there. if it were a specific event, activity or person within the school your son would react to it whenever it happened. for example a child who was scared of PE would show signs of anxiety in the classes leading up to PE, but be fine after it. your son has signs of acute anxiety leading up to going to school, but is fine once he's there, which suggests its the going bit thats the issue.

 

from the staffs viewpoint, until you've worked out what that issue could be, as long as he's attending school and having no problems once he's in, theres not a lot they can do.

 

the only thing i can suggest is that you break down your morning routine and see if there is any specific time or action which always sparks the problems, and work from there. also talk to your son, he's old enough to have some idea of what he's feeling so a calm evening chat about school and the morning problems may well shed some light.

 

i'm going to hide while i say this bit

also bear in mind that just because your son has an ASD doesn't mean he can't still be as manipulative as any other child when he wants to get his own way. if after you've looked at all other avenues there still isn't any pattern or 'reason' for his behaviour, he may well just be having a tantrum because he wants to stay home! the only reason i say this is because ive done it and am well aware that i can have problems because of my ASD, and also have problems because i just dont want to do something.

[Suze]

Have you tried to ask your son about this when he is calm?.......can he explain why he behaves like this?

..........my son has anxieties about school in the mornings particularly mondays, the idea that his time was,nt his and the schools made him upset as there was always other things he wanted to do...........usually involving his obsessions..

.......if your son is getting involved with his obsessions during the mornings then that could be the trigger to the melt down.ie if he goes on the computer or watches a fave tv programme etc and knows he,ll miss other programmes when at school this could be setting him off.So you could make these things stuff he can only do after school and not before.My nt son isn,t allowed on the xbox in the mornings as he gets very angry if he has,nt finished his game etc and we need to leave for school.

Hope you get to the bottom of it best wishes suzex

[Clare63]

Hello Flower,

 

I am sorry to hear how your son is having reaccurent meltdowns (I prefer meltdown to the term tantrum, as to me the word tantrum describes a small child throwing a wobbly because they cannnot get their own way where as in "my Opinion" a meltdown is the result of overload and the inability to cope)

 

It is imperative that all avenues are explored as what and when the meltdowns are triggered (although of course this could be impossible as it could be numerous factors) and insist that you "work with" the school to find solutions or make changes to make things more managable for your son. I have always found it better not to place blame but try to work together with schools, otherwise they become all defensive and end up on focusing on your parenting skills rathert than looking at the whole picture......no one likes to be blamed, if you know what I mean ?

 

My son academically has always been more than able and his behaviour perfect, like you the school could not really see there was any problem, apart of him being terribly shy and lacking in confidence. The problems came at home with meltdowns and the realisation that he really was not coping. Without worrying you or sounding dramatic, my son ended up with a nervous breakdown and being signed off by our GP from school.

 

During the time he was out of school we requested a statement of educational needs, a daunting task when the needs are sensory and social and communicational. To cut a long story short we were successful and he now has a statement and is at school (alebit a different one and one that specialises in AS).

 

My advise would be :-

 

1. Request an urgent meeting with the school to discuss your concerns

 

2. Make a list of all your concerns and ask for them to be addressed, ensuringt that minutes are taken and you are sent a copy.

 

3. Ask for a school/home book so you can both enter how the day and/or evening went, also good for the school to note down any potential changes so you can prepare your child

 

4. Ask for the school to put in for an assessment for a statement (if they won't you can do one yourself, and tell them so)

 

5. Continue to explore times, situations etc when meltdowns occur and keep a diary, start that today or do a blog. A written record is such good evidence and help you to remember when it comes to completing forms etc.,

 

6. Keep to a good routine in the mornings before school with use of a visual timetable

 

Finally be kind to yourself and ensure you get a little me time, this can be an exhausting time and can get all consuming. so you need time when you don't think, eat, sleep AS !!!!

 

Hope that helps

 

Clare x x x

[chris54]

(I prefer meltdown to the term tantrum, as to me the word tantrum describes a small child throwing a wobbly because they cannnot get their own way where as in "my Opinion" a meltdown is the result of overload and the inability to cope)

 

The problem I have with the term "Meltdown" is its over use. I agree with the above but if same child 30 minuets later is happily going into school is it a "Meltdown".

 

"Meltdown" to me infers a major incident that requires substantial intervention/ input to redress.

Edited January 25, 2009 by chris54

[flower23]

Hi,,

And thank you to all you have responded to my plea...lol all advice is taken..

 

Since the dx , we have defintely started to work out , which are meltdowns and which are tantrums... Since the start of September , we have made him go into school and he has well understood before and after the meltdown, that this would happen.. and as explained after the first time he ended up in the headmasters office in his pj's in feotal position on a chair.. crying That it would definitely happen again and again,, ... As we all know , once the the meltdown has started , there is no stopping until he has decided to calm down..

These meltdowns, although are mainly regarding school, are also in the holidays or after perhaps staying at his nannys , which he loves and asks to do .. .. you can bet , its like waiting for a bomb to explode when he returns, last week it was because he didnt like what he was having for tea, and I ended up sitting on the stairs while he lay at the bottom crying,, .. Twenty minutes later, I asked if he wanted a drink with his dinner, he said yes and came and ate his dinner , as though none of it had happened.!!!

 

My feeling is that it is the prentending to be normal (thank you Karen), although we are starting to notice and pick up on little bits he tells us or written in his diary every night,, for example ,, he has forgotten his P.E kit (it is always there), and his best friend wasnt doing P.E, or this week he had to have a dinner instead of packed lunch as he had lost his lunch box... (his best friend had changed to dinners)..

 

Once or twice a week, someone has Accidently run into him on the playground, or knocked him,, but always accidently and they didnt mean it,, the last three birthday;s there was no invite, (even from his so called best friend)...

 

A couple of months ago, after a major meltdown, in which the Pumpkin was thrown down the stairs, I left him with two pieces of paper, one to draw himself at home and the other at school. and to write how he felt.. The school one, - " I cried at school , because my friends were whipping me with snakes and the work is hard" and the home one . "I cry because of the Homework" This was the first I had heard about the incident and he had told the dinner lady who dealt with it,, meltdown over and off he went to school as though it had never happened..

 

I took the drawings into school, and the head teacher said they would sort it...

 

I feel he needs more one to one support, but as the headmaster said " there is no outside funding to keep children calm whilst in school"!!! and they use Teaching Assistants is for the whole school,

 

Ok ,,, so after my rambling again, lol... the basics are that , we are learning to cope at home and reduce anxieties as much as you can, but obviously need the support in school for him? dont I ,, or am I going round in circles....???

 

[JsMum]

 

 

Hi Flower, Your discription of your son in his PJs in the Heads office in a fetal position made me terribly sad for him, this sounds a lot more than a tantrum bless him, I personally have done this too, and would vow never to do it again, I personally would want a lot more been done, and more proffessionals on board.

 

Have you still got the drawings, as this could be evidence to use for educational needs.

 

I would whole heartedly agree the course of action is what Clare63 has already advised and described wonderfully for you, she is a mum who has been there and worn the Tshirt so it goes to show you can get support in the end.

 

Im not too sure of the HEADS description of TAs been used for the whole of the School, Js statement is specified and his statement band paid for the TA got as I got a reciet to show she was employed solely for Js statement.

 

In the whole of Js primary school years he was invited to one birthday party, it is very emotional when you recognise other childrens rejection at times like this so I do sypathise how sad it feels.

 

Let us know how things go.

 

JsMum

 

[Karen A]

I feel he needs more one to one support, but as the headmaster said " there is no outside funding to keep children calm whilst in school"!!! and they use Teaching Assistants is for the whole school,

 

Ok ,,, so after my rambling again, lol... the basics are that , we are learning to cope at home and reduce anxieties as much as you can, but obviously need the support in school for him? dont I ,, or am I going round in circles....???

 

Hi.Does your son have any support in school ?

I am pressuming he doesn't and feel cross for you.

The headmaster is not giving you a very clear picture.He either is not aware of current SEN policy or he is not being clear with you.

Teaching Assistants are empoyed by the school.Some are employed using delegated money for SEN.They may be used as their manager decides is appropriate.However children with SEN are entitled to support in school.Initially most children with SEN are supported at school action or school action plus.The school should draw up an iep [a plan for educational input] with parents and the child.The plan will detail the difficulties the child is having and ways of addressing the difficulty.It may include group work or individual work .In short the school has a responsibilty to provide an environment that enables a child to remain calm.This is clearly the situation where a child has a diagnosed recognised disability [AS] where it is well known that an inability to cope with an environment that is not supportive can escalate anxiety.

A refusal to provide appropriate accomodations could amount to disability discrimination.

It may be worth asking for a meeting with the SENCO to discuss your concerns.

I thought I would ask ....your son does not have a statement of SEN already does he ? I am hoping not but experience tells me it is not unknown for a school to fail to provide what is documented in a statement.

In short....yes you do need the support of school.The problems at home could be due to difficulties coping with school which you cannot resolve without school support.Karen.

 

[flower23]

Thank Jsmum,

 

This forum has been a life saver for my sanity just lately, and it is soooo sad that you have to fight for every bit of advice that you need, I have found a wonderful group that isnt so local , but is run by parents who have been through the same, their advice has been excellent .. and will not be taking him in his pj's again!! and yes I do have the pictures, which I will be taking on Thursday..

It is sad that he doesnt get invited to any birthday parties, and I had to watch him search through his school drawer to see if he had an invite to one party, and pass it off when he hadn't got one... I could have cried...

 

As for more help in school, I really think I have a battle on , as I have already been told from the Head that there is no outside funding for this.. ? I am dreading Thursday but determined to stay strong!! I am just hoping that they dont make me feel like some paranoid mother !!! as ithas took since his dx to get out of feeling like that..

 

 

[Karen A]

Hi again.Is the meeting with the EP this Tues as in tom ?

If it is it might be worth writing down a clear list of your concerns as mentioned here to take and discuss.Also take somone with you for support if you can.

Parent Partnership may be helpful although they do vary depending on where you live.Some are less independent from schools and the local authority than others.

Edited to add this link that might be useful.

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice/booklets/G...gExtraHelp.html

Edited January 26, 2009 by Karen A

[flower23]

Hi again,

 

The Ep is ringing me tomorrow , (I am gathering she is different to the Inclusion Team who are in school with me on Thursday?) .. apologies I am still learning and having to find out myself how everything works....

 

I even took a website address for the head to look at, it was a very basic website , but explained about aspergers, I am hoping he will have looked at it, and then I will make sure tomorrow the Ep is aware about everything has happened so I have her back up too...

 

 

[Karen A]

Hi again,

 

The Ep is ringing me tomorrow , (I am gathering she is different to the Inclusion Team who are in school with me on Thursday?) .. apologies I am still learning and having to find out myself how everything works....

 

I even took a website address for the head to look at, it was a very basic website , but explained about aspergers, I am hoping he will have looked at it, and then I will make sure tomorrow the Ep is aware about everything has happened so I have her back up too...

 

Do you know who the incusion team are ? Do they have any experience of ASD or are they part of the provision for children with difficulties with behaviour and attendance ? Don't worry if you don't know.It might help to have some support from a professional with knowledge and experience of ASD.Sometimes they have more sucess in explaining the issues to school staff.

Please don't apologise.I am still learning too. I don't understand how things work often...sometimes that is because they don't work the way they should.Karen.

 

[flower23]

Hi Karen,

 

I have had a look and it seems the Social Inclusion Service is a team of teachers and professionals that work with schools in the area.. I am going to ring them today, to make sure who ever is going tomorrow has a good knowledge of Aspergers., its all very daunting..lol I just dont know what to expect, at the moment Jake isnt really getting any one to one at school, and the TA sit on a table with a group of children in his class just to help out.. and I dont really know how much time he should be having one to one?

The head did mention the School Action plus and putting a IEP in place., so hopefully by the end of this week a should be clearer on whats happeneing..

One of the TA did do some visual cards we took home to try and encourage him to get to school, which worked for about two days,, lol,, then he didnt need the cards as he knows what time and what he should be doing before school , as he informed me..!!!

 

The more I speak to my son each day, the more I am sure his issues are the need to fit it in, and the small things just mount up into one big meltdown, then he is fine again.. and I know school would like to put it down to control and tiredness , but he went lovely yesterday to school after another late night, (awaiting appointment for melatonin!!!) He even stopped taking his toast and juice money in for morining playtime, which I couldnt understand until I found out that his best friend didnt take any each day. I understand this could be a child without AS, but trying to convince he head is becoming really difficult , and the more I explain the more petty I sound...

 

[Karen A]

Hi flower.I think it may be worth making a clear request for an iep.If outside agencies [like inclusion team /ep] are involved then your son should be put on the SEN register at school action plus.I suppose what I am attempting to say is don't be afraid to be clear that that is what you want.

Provision at school action and school action plus is not covered by any legal right.So it is difficult to push the HT towards putting support in place.However it is worth being clear about what you feeel your child needs and attempting to have your views documented.

If your son continues to find school stressful and school are unable or unwilling to provide appropriate support you may decide at some point to request an Assessment of SEN.If you request an Assessment then the first thing the LEA will want evidence of is what the school have done already [at school action and action plus].If school are unable to provide evidence that significant intervention has been provided with little impact then it is very unlikely that the LEA will agree to assessment.So it is worth attempting to push the school to ensure the correct procedures are followed from the outset.Karen.

[Karen A]

Hi Karen,

 

I have had a look and it seems the Social Inclusion Service is a team of teachers and professionals that work with schools in the area.. I am going to ring them today, to make sure who ever is going tomorrow has a good knowledge of Aspergers., its all very daunting..lol I just dont know what to expect, at the moment Jake isnt really getting any one to one at school, and the TA sit on a table with a group of children in his class just to help out.. and I dont really know how much time he should be having one to one?

The head did mention the School Action plus and putting a IEP in place., so hopefully by the end of this week a should be clearer on whats happeneing..

One of the TA did do some visual cards we took home to try and encourage him to get to school, which worked for about two days,, lol,, then he didnt need the cards as he knows what time and what he should be doing before school , as he informed me..!!!

 

The more I speak to my son each day, the more I am sure his issues are the need to fit it in, and the small things just mount up into one big meltdown, then he is fine again.. and I know school would like to put it down to control and tiredness , but he went lovely yesterday to school after another late night, (awaiting appointment for melatonin!!!) He even stopped taking his toast and juice money in for morining playtime, which I couldnt understand until I found out that his best friend didnt take any each day. I understand this could be a child without AS, but trying to convince he head is becoming really difficult , and the more I explain the more petty I sound...

 

 

Hi again.There is no entitlement to a specific amount of TA support either one to one or in groups unless it is clearly documented in a Statement.However Jake should have an iep .The iep would state what Jakes needs are ,what the targets are for addressing those needs and what needs to be done to address those needs.

A visual card will only help if the issue is something like social understanding of going to school ,organisation or understanding that it is time to go to school.If Jake knows he needs to be at school but is refusing to go or too anxious to go becuase school is stressful it may make matters worse. I think maybe school need to provide some support in school with understanding unstructured times and social situations in order to enable Jake to feel happier about being there.

I can see very clearly what Ben would have done with a visual card reminding him to go to school last year when he was not happy there....and it is not polite to post.

I was wondering about the melatonin.It is only a personal thought.If Jake is not sleeping on nights when he has school but is ok generally then it may be worth attempting to reduce the anxiety around school as well as /before pushing for melatonin.

I know melatonin is prescribed fairly often for children on the Forum.I am just a bit worried that school may be very keen to enable Jake to sleep well in the hope that they will not need to change the current level of support in school.Oh dear I did not used to be so cynical....

 

[flower23]

Hi Karen,

Just thought I would do a quick update, and thanks for all the advice....

Well everything been up and down with school and two weeks ago had a terrible morning but eventually got him into school after lunch and he stayed and chatted to the head for an hour or so...

I got back to pick him up,, and I think finally the head got it!!!! he had looked at the website I had given him and after chatting to him finally realised and saw Jake who has Aspergers and not controlling and naughty jake..!!

We now have the Melatonin and must admit it has been a life saver,, and we now have jake in a great bed time routine,.. now he isnt soo tired, his attitude is a lot better, but we can now see the anxiety in Jake , but which can be controlled alot better..

We still have our off days and had to put him into the car on Friday, but other than that he is alot easier to talk to and meltdowns although are still there can be controlled alot quicker and easier..

As for school the I.E.P is set in place, which is great, but we still have some issues to cover.. even today he cam home and for the first time in a long time told me he hadnt had a good day, and spent two playtimes standing in the toilet on his own, because of silly playground games of hiding from him from some of the boys.. he takes it so much to heart.. bless him

But anyway,,, it is so much happier for getting his sleep,, but I am under no illusions that this will cure his anxieties, especially when going to see his doctor at the hospital he was laying on the floor, legs wrapped round mine, tapping his head on my legs..lol (all over the fact there was no caffiene free coke,,, or more to the point , we hadnt told him where he was going and still isnt comfortable in places he doesnt like to go too..)

xxxxx

 

[BuntyB]

There's some good advice already regarding school, however, I will say that I have some sympathy about my daughter and how she struggles to go anywhere because I am a bit like that too!

 

Whenever something is coming up, I think 'I wish I wasn't going to work, out for a meal, to a party' etc but I tell myself now not to be so stupid because I know full well that I am fine when I get there. It's the the thought of going that's the problem!

 

It sounds like your son is good at drawing pictures of how he feels. Perhaps he can draw what he feels like when he knows he has to go somewhere and what he feels like once he's actually there. My daughter is just beginning to realise that her expectations of what it's going to be like are far more negative than the real thing!

 

Preparing does help. Explaining what's happening and when and what to expect is useful. Visual timetables with treats built in and 'time out' between stopping one thing and starting another helps. We used to get ready for school before a tv programme and when it finished it was time to switch off and go, but any sort of time limited activity would do.

 

not having something ready like a PE kit or a pair of socks is generally what pushed mine over the edge so it helps to get as much organised as possible. Best of luck with this though, because mine always managed to lose what was put out between bedtime and the morning. I've resorted to locking things in the car boot!!

[flower23]

Most of the time he cant explain why he doesnt want to go certain places...He just doesnt,, he likes it at home!!! he will go to places he knows sometimes , like grandparents or friends sometimes.. but it all depends on the day.. even minutes before..!! If we HAVE to go somewhere , shops etc, It just takes longer as we usually have to go and look at some video games , and he has to know which shops and what we are going for,, and god forbid we make a detour...lol I am accused of lying quiet a bit lately... lol

Even up until today he had been looking forward to a guitar lesson i had booked one on one,, and literally minutes before we got there it all went down hill in the car,, It wasnt really bad, but the tears came and he said he didnt want to go , he wanted to go home...

Unfortunately , he wont do the pictures for me now, so its still managing jake on an hour to hour and minute to minute routine..

Like you mentioned,, preparing is essential, and my attitude now is no matter what happens , meltdown or anxiety is to stay calm and have patience and most of the time it can be dealt with..

I must admit the last nearly nine months has been a total rollercoaster, and family life has changed dramatically,, but we are all getting there,, and you defintely find out who your true friends are!!!