Being good because he wants to?

[LizK]

Dunno if I am expecting too much of my seven year old. He is generally a placid little chap but we are noticing that he has become a bit more oppositional recently. I generally can get him to behave when he is like this but it is usually down to me having to count down and threaten a sanction or end up shouting at him. Negative parenting really and because this works I get into a cycle of doing this more but that's not really how I should be parenting? My four year old NT son is more of a handful than my 7 year old but I have noticed now that he's starting to do things I ask because he wants to and responds to praise. They were in the back of the car today arguing over a toy so I insisted they took turns with and gave them prewarned set times with it. Each time DS2 finished his turn he handed it over with little prompting, DS1 refused and only did it because I threatened he couldn't have it again. The problem with DS1 is that whilst he likes praise he is not that motivated by it certainly not when it means distracting him from his agenda. He is not bribable like DS1 either so flipping flaky that if he doesn't get his reward he just shrugs his shoulders and wanders off.

 

I think a lot of the problem is that it is so hard to motivate DS1 positively whereas threats and sanctions work. I just don't like the fact that my main method of parenting is so negative with DS1, I want him to do things because he knows it's right just like I'm starting to see the signs of in DS2. Or am I being unrealistic? DS1 is developmentally immature, maybe this will come with time (it is a stage of moral development I think?) or maybe by virtue of being autistic DS1 will find it harder to achieve this?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Lx

[baddad]

I think a lot of the problem is that it is so hard to motivate DS1 positively whereas threats and sanctions work. I just don't like the fact that my main method of parenting is so negative with DS1, I want him to do things because he knows it's right just like I'm starting to see the signs of in DS2. Or am I being unrealistic? DS1 is developmentally immature, maybe this will come with time (it is a stage of moral development I think?) or maybe by virtue of being autistic DS1 will find it harder to achieve this?

 

Any thoughts?

 

Lx

 

i think you've hit the nail on the head... it will come in time and it is harder and a slower process where AS is a factor for the reasons you highlight.

That said, it is exactly the same process, but 'stretched'... you're starting to see the signs with DS2 because he's making the associations/connections more easily and is enjoying the positive feedback associated with that. DS1 is finding it harder to make those connections/associations, and the 'positive feedback' is yet to kick in as a motivator as a consequence. stick with it, though, and those things will come together for him

i said in a post a few days ago - with an 'NT kid' you can probably get away with an 80/85% sort of consistency, because the 'pattern' will still become clear. Where the understanding is harder to achieve, then the boundaries need to be more concrete for the pattern to 'stand out'...

It seems unfair, sometimes, but in the long term the black and white definitions become a comfort in themselves, and the kids are far happier as a consequence

 

L&P

 

BD

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Baddad has summed things up nicely I think.

 

Someone once said to me that children need boundaries in order to feel more contained. Didn't really know what that meant at the time, but it's become much clearer. It can take a long time for a child to see the pattern, but stick with it. Thing is, if you give up, things will become much more difficult. As I said, it can take a long time for a child to click, but when it does things should be a bit easier.

 

My son is gogo crazy just now and he is responding really well to receiving a pack as an reward for good behaviour. Initially I thought it was bribery and wasn't convinced about the value in what I was doing - I was just so desperate to get him to comply, etc. However, he's really grasped the concept of earning them. Likewise, if his behaviour really gets out of hand, they're confiscated for the rest of the day. Must admit, that all hell breaks loose and it's been hard but I've stuck with that too and it looks like it's really starting to pay off. Admitedly, I have debated with myself as to whether it amounts to bribery (and I still do!), but I think given his age, that teaching him that it's good to do something to please someone else as opposed to doing it for a reward, is a concept which he'll grasp with age/maturity.

 

Stick with it.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

[baddad]

Oh - on the question of rewards - visual is always good (I don't know what 'gogo' is but it sounds visual!)...

I bought Ben some plastic coins off of e-bay (someone here mentioned them) that said 'I've been good today' (I know, but they didn't have any other vesrions!)... I bought enough of them so that he could 'earn' three a day, then he had behaviour targets where

1 was a 'given' (I think it was earned for 'loving my dad'), so he got at least 1 positive reinforcer per day.

2 was slightly harder (can't remember now), but still highly achievable - he 'earned' it about 95% of the time

3 was the real deal, given for successfully achieving whatever the 'real' target was (this changed with time but was initially for 'no pushing' at school which later went on to be target number two when he could achieve it almost every day).

 

There were daily 'rewards' (a small choc/whatever for 2 or more tokens) and a tally was kept for larger rewards (playstation games/PC software - whatever he chose as a 'target'. We would agree the tally total beforehand, so he always knew where he was).

 

It sounds a bit complicated, but actually isn't any more so than a star chart, is highly visual/tactile and 'fun'. we has a little pot where the tokens would be collected over the week as another visual reinforcer...

Dunno if the tokens are still available, but now you could easily knock up your own with either card and a laminator or 'badge it' badges, which would personalise it all even more.

 

You have to be absolutely concrete about the 'real' (3rd) target; otherwise it will fail and you'll end up with meltdowns when it's not achieved. Stick to your guns, though and once the two 'concepts' have gone in ( 1 - good behaviour = good things happening, 2 - I won't get token 3 no matter how much i shout and scream, and risk token 2 if I really, really go to town) thw wider understanding will start to happen.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Squirrel]

I just use real coins ... at the moment

(This is probably a bit of an aside from the original topic, but I've something to add about that too!)

 

Robin's coins are mainly for toilet training at the moment, about 8p for a pee and 40p for a poo (we're working in Swedish Kronor!) He is saving up for a toy racetrack. However the threat of removing coins from his pot works really well as well - flicking light-switches = electricity costs money, and it really does cost a fortune here, so if you are choosing to do that then we will need to take a coin out of your pot. Hurting the animals = Making Mummy explode with sparks coming out of her ears ... Oh, yes, helpful response! A big coin which I put in the animal food cupboard for buying the cats a new toy as an apology for the tail holding incident. I have only had to do these very rarely, literally the 'test cases' and now the threa works well enough.

 

Original point (before I get called away ...) I am seeing social behaviour, especially imitation, in my 6 month old son that we never saw in Robin. It makes me well up because I suddently realise how much robin is 'not normal'. I expect to see more of what you are describing as time goes on.

 

Helen

[Sally44]

Earning tokens for rewards are good ideas.

Another thing to consider, if at this stage he isn't interested in the praise type of thing and many other motivators, is whether it is difficulties with transitions themselves, or with having to finish doing what he is doing or leave something unfinished full stop. I have found that giving a warning and a slow count down always helps because it states what is going to happen and then you count it down slowly eg. 1-2-3 and my son always complies within that timeframe because otherwise he has no understanding of any timeframe and therefore doesn't know WHEN he is supposed to stop.

Try to work with what his skill levels are now and get a system into place, then start to stretch it a bit. For example he might have difficulties deferring reward, but as he gets older instead of instant gratification he can be encouraged to save tokens for a bigger treat at the weekend.

[LizK]

Was a bit down hearted after school pick up this evening. DS1 has been having some 'strops' at lunchtime so his LSA devised a sticker reward chart earning two each lunchtime, one for something he mostly can do one with ease to encourage and one for the behaviour they are trying to change. Reward tomorrow if he gets all 10 stars is extra computer time something he really loves and looking forward to. He played up at lunchtime today so didn't get his second star and now knows he won't get extra computer time at school until after the Easter hols. I was quite perturbed that he was unperturbed at this turn of events He told me all about the things he did wrong on the way home very matter of fact, you would think he was almost proud the way he sounded except I know that's just how it came over and he was simply recalling the lunchtime with an 'oh well I'll have to wait until after Easter for extra computer time' with an over exaggerated sigh. He is just so flipping flaky and laid back at times but he adores the PC. I don't understand him sometimes and worry that parenting him 'negatively' whilst effective now is really not something I want to make a habit off further.

 

Thanks for the comments and ideas Agree with Baddad about the consistency thing, I feel the pressure far more to be a good parent and get things right with DS1 than DS2 because I know I can slip up occasionally with him and not screw things up. Might try the tokens, it's a tangible and visible motivator, we've used very visual reward charts before with reasonable success. Maybe it's just time and plugging away at it. Making more of an effort to postively encourage him to do small helpful things and praise him and explain that is a good thing to do. Sometimes just thinks he needs a rule book of right and wrong explaining it explicitly 'cos he still doesn't always realise when an action he does is either one of these

 

Lx

[Mum of 3]

I was quite perturbed that he was unperturbed at this turn of events He told me all about the things he did wrong on the way home very matter of fact, you would think he was almost proud the way he sounded except I know that's just how it came over and he was simply recalling the lunchtime with an 'oh well I'll have to wait until after Easter for extra computer time' with an over exaggerated sigh. He is just so flipping flaky and laid back at times but he adores the PC.

 

Hi

My DS often does this when he's accepted the consequence for what he's done. Several times, he's greeted my mum (who visits most days) with a beaming smile and a cheery 'I've had a HUGE tantrum this morning!'

I think what you're seeing could be that he's been given a system to follow, tested the system, found it stands up to testing, and has sighed a huge sigh of relief! It must feel good to know that the rules make sense!

I know what you mean about 'negative' parenting. I worry about this all the time. Sometimes I find the 'quick fix' is the fall back plan when all three of mine are playing up! Then I spend the rest of the evening feeling bad

I think if it's on your mind, and you are aware of what you're doing, then you'll be doing it 'right' more often than you're doing it 'wrong', and for me, that's as much as I can hope for at the moment!