Shall I wait or apply for a statement?

[wasuup]

Too cut a long story short:

 

3 of my 4 children attend the same school. My first child has selective mutism and anxieties which we have had a long battle over 2 years with the school to get them to to support her in anyway due to a useless Head, SENco and EP despite having 3 diagnosis's for her saying the same things. As a result of the schools failure we have had to deal with bad behaviour, school refusals (for extended periods of time) and attempts to run away from school. We have found a school that seems better able to support her and are starting her there after the Easter Holidays. My other 2 children are in year 3 and Reception. The one in year 3 is bright, kind and caring and just the type of pupil which the school like. My 3rd child is being assessed for ASD and Dyspraxia. Whilst the new school has a place for my year 3 child he is happy and wants to stay where he is until September, it doesn't have a place for my Reception child but he is top of the waiting list should a place become availiable. Now my 3rd childs case is supposed to be going to a multi-disciplinary panal to decide on a diagnosis. The problem being a backlog of children on this list to be assessed and that the panal only meet every 2 months.

 

Shall I wait for this to take place or apply for a statement now (however he only is on his 1st IEP) as early intervention is supposed to be so crucial?

I want to take my 3rd child out of school in September (until a place at the other school becomes availiable) as I really don't trust the school which failed my daughter so badly to look after my son properly. At the moment my son in year 3 makes sure that no one takes advantage of his naivity and looks out for him. Can I still apply for a statement then or does he have to be in a school?

 

Thanks for reading and any advice anyone can give me.

[Karen A]

Hi.I think you can request a Statutary Assessment of SEN [the assessment which enables the LA to decide whether to issue a Statement] if your child is not in school.However some here have found that the LA attempt to say that assessments cannot be completed because they cannot observe the child in school.

It may well be worth also ensuring that you do things in such a way that the LA do not conclude that you have opted out of the system to home educate and so attempt to deny their responsibility. Karen.

[Kathryn]

Although it is useful for professionals such as the educational psychologist to gather evidence on how the child interacts in the school environment, there is no requirement that your child is in school during the statementing process. I requested and eventually got a statutory assessment while my daughter was out of school and I know others have done the same.

 

Just my opinion but I think it would be best to wait until the move before applying for a statement, as you probably don't have enough evidence yet to succeed. A diagnosis would help, as would the support of several professionals, so waiting till the multidisciplinary assessment is behind you might be a good idea.

 

K x

Edited April 4, 2009 by Kathryn

[wasuup]

Thanks for your replies they are helpful.

 

Many of the assessments have already taken place:

The SALT one outlines some pronunciation difficulties, overuse of he,his, ect when she should be used, delay in expressive language and delay in social interaction and communication.

The OT one says Dyspraxia which the paed reports agree with.

The PAED reports one says, my first thoughts are Aspergers and the Locum PAED report which is most recent says, possible social communication disorder, obsessions and routines and blank moments.

We are waiting on the EP report and a social communication checklist from school who are being really slow. He is under P8 on the P scales for communication prob a P6 at best but a P4/5 in parts too.

His IEP targets include 3 for social communication difficulties, and 1 for dressing and undressing and 1 for handwriting.

It all seems to rest on this Panal meeting decision and how mild, moderate or severe they deem his needs to be.

We have been asked if we wanted referral to the clinical psych dept as he does have obsessions, routines and rituals but as he is still quite small for the moment and because we understand what his difficulties are we can cope for now. My worry is if we said yes to that would we have to wait for a report from the CP service as well before a diagnosis. We see a CP anyway for my daughter and he always asks about the boys too so, so we have unofficial advice there anyway if we need it.

Edited April 5, 2009 by wasuup

[Kathryn]

So you already have a lot of evidence, which is good. Has the EP actually seen him yet? Any idea when the panel meeting will be?

 

K x

[wasuup]

No idea what is happening with the school they are useless and like to play everything down as much as possible. We needed the school EP to assess my daughter for her maths difficulties. The EP contacted us and told us that she would asses our daughter asap. We waited weeks and still nothing so phoned the EP who said that the school had told them it didn't need her to assess my daughter! No one told us not school or the EP.

All I know is that PAED has written to the school requesting the EP assessment and report.

No idea when the panal meeting will be-its only every 2 months and they have other cases to consider and might not get to ours until the next panal meeting after that one. Then the panal could request more evidence and so it could go on.

[Kathryn]

Schools can only call in the EP a certain number of times in the year which might explain their reluctance to request an assessment for a child not considered to be high priority. I hope the Paed request will help to get things moving.

 

K x

[wasuup]

Thanks-Thing is it was only a month ago when I last spoke to the school EP regarding my daughter and she let it slip that the school hadn't requested her once this school year! Just to give you an idea of what I am dealing with as regards the school!

 

Regarding my daughters needs she has been stuck on level2 SATS (plus all the anxiety that goes with her feeling that she is stupid) since infants for numeracy and despite me suggesting many times that she may have dyscalculia and a previous EP poo pooing the suggestion this only recently has been mentioned to me by this years teacher where I got asked if I had heard of dyscalculia! She is a high level 5 for everything else and would prob be a level 6 but the school don't test for that level.

 

I had better go and try to get some sleep.........

Edited April 5, 2009 by wasuup

[Sally44]

I would recommend you speak with the NAS or IPSEA about when to ask for a Statutory Assessment towards a Statement.

It is right that schools have quotas for EP input, and I too had the same problem as you. The school said they were asking the EP for advice. The EP said school were saying they were coping (and were using the EP quota on other children who were being disruptive in class). But by requesting a Statutory Assessment the EP will have to go in and assess anyway at that time, so it might be worth requesting a SA from that point of view.

And, if you have specific concerns about your child it is worth putting those concerns in writing to the various professionals responsible for those areas at the same time you request a SA, because then they have the opportunity to assess those difficulties you have highlighted and make recommendations in their report. If they don't do that you have evidence that you informed them of your concerns, and if they do do that you have evidence ie. recommendations to be included in the Statement. It is always beneficial to be pro-active rather than assume they will do what they are supposed to do.

It might also be the same from the CP point of view, ie. if you are referred to them, and then request a SA then the CP may have to do a report within the SA timescale (but I don't know that for sure).

You also need a history of at least 2 IEPs which you have to submit towards the SA. It might be worth running your existing ones past the Parent Partnership to see if they are SMART, because our council refuses SA if the IEPs are not SMART because they say the child might have made progress if the right targets had been in place.

You can also use any other evidence you have yourselves.

And it might be worth starting the SA in the present school that is not meeting the childs needs, because you will have more evidence where you are. If you start it in the new school the LEA may say that the new school is more capable of meeting the childs needs and they may say they wish to leave it for some time to see how the child settles in once appropriate supports are in place. These LEAs are sneaky beggers. But you need to check that delaying the school change is not going to put a placement at risk.

So I really would advice you speak with the NAS or IPSEA to make sure you don't shoot yourself in the foot accidently.

I did move my son from his previous school because they were failing him so badly. If I had kept him there the solicitor I used was very confident that we would win a place in a private school with fees paid by the LEA. But I was too afraid to keep him where he was incase we lost and I had to keep him in that same school indefinately. So I just told the LEA I was taking him to the ER school in September as they had mainstream (not ER) places available and dared them to deny him access. This isn't action I would recommend, because you are flying by the seat of your pants. But we did go to tribunal and win everything we asked for, including the ER place and transport.

And you can appeal to Tribunal if the LEA turn down a SA.

[wasuup]

Thanks for your reply Sally. I just want his needs to be recognized and met just like any other parent in my position. I think the "new" school is in a better position to meet those needs. They have links with the local asd school and children who are on joint placement so the knowledge, links and support from that is already in place should they need it. The "new" school may well be able to meet his needs on SA/SA+ or ESAP. His language difficulties are to my mind from what I have read mostly semantic pragmatic ones, he may also be having absence seizures and has signs of tourettes-throat clearing, tongue clicking, head shaking, occasional swearing, plus his motor planning/handwriting difficulties/dressing difficulties. Would these difficulties alongside his social interaction difficulties warrant a statement? At the moment most children are at his level academically and so he does not stand out from them but I don't want him to fail before the support is there for him and watch him lose his self esteem and become unhappy. I will ring the EP tomorrow and check what she is doing and check with the organizations you mentioned.

[Karen A]

Thanks for your reply Sally. I just want his needs to be recognized and met just like any other parent in my position. I think the "new" school is in a better position to meet those needs. They have links with the local asd school and children who are on joint placement so the knowledge, links and support from that is already in place should they need it. The "new" school may well be able to meet his needs on SA/SA+ or ESAP. His language difficulties are to my mind from what I have read mostly semantic pragmatic ones, he may also be having absence seizures and has signs of tourettes-throat clearing, tongue clicking, head shaking, occasional swearing, plus his motor planning/handwriting difficulties/dressing difficulties. Would these difficulties alongside his social interaction difficulties warrant a statement? At the moment most children are at his level academically and so he does not stand out from them but I don't want him to fail before the support is there for him and watch him lose his self esteem and become unhappy. I will ring the EP tomorrow and check what she is doing and check with the organizations you mentioned.

 

Hi.Whether an LA agree to assess for a Statement should not just be based on academic ability.It should be based on an assessment of all areas of development.So a child might need support with practical skills due to motor planning difficulties or might need a programme to develop social communication during unstructured times [break time].All of these sorts of things should be taken into account.Ben is very bright but has AS and dyspraxia.He needs support for things like planning work,organisation and with social communication.In our case because Ben needed help in several areas the panel decided that the total amount of input required necessitated provision via a statement.

It is very difficult to judge what will warrent a statement in my view because there is so much variation between LAs.In our case Ben obtained much more provision documented in the Statement than another very similar child in the neighbouring LA.

 

Have you asked the new school what support they would be able to provide without a Statement ? It may be that if the ''new school'' is clued up they may be able to access the support of outreach staff from the neighbouring school.It is possible that you could find that the ''new school'' are so aware regarding ASD that there are fewer difficulties and so they might consider that they can provide for your child's needs at SAplus.

As Kathryn has mentioned it might be best to wait until the move before applying for a Statement.This is especially the case if the new school already have good provision for ASD in place.The new school will not have evidence to show that your child has SEN over and above what is already covered by delegated funding if the provision and awareness is good.

I have Edited to add.If you have doubts about the current school another thing worth considering is how well they would do with regard to providing evidence for Statutary Assessment.It is not unkown for a LA to turn down a request to assess because the school has not provided adequate information.Karen.

 

Edited April 7, 2009 by Karen A

[Karen A]

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/3724/SENCodeOfPractice.pdf

Scetions of the COP [above] give more detailed information.See especially 7:21 to 7:29 and 7:43.

It is worth bearing in mind that if you apply too early for a Statutary Assessment and are turned down you cannot reapply for six months.Although you can go to tribunal it could be more time consuming than waiting a few months for the new school to gather evidence.

It is a difficult thing to judge. Karen.

 

[Sally44]

As already stated Statements are not just about academic difficulties. It covers everything and every need should be included in a Statement.

I'm getting a bit confused with which child is at what school etc. But it's not hard to confuse me!

My understanding is that one of your children has been allocated a place at this new school and will start September and you are wondering whether to start the Statementing process for that child at the old or new school?

And if I understand well, from what you have posted this new school is much more able to meet those needs because of the schools long experience of ASD children and through ties with another special school. And you also say that only one IEP has been done so far for this child.

Moving school will delay the statement because LEAs want schools to have the time to understand the child's needs (and you need at least two IEPs anyway). As you have only one IEP it sounds like you can't begin the process whilst they are at the old school anyway??

If, on the Statement, you would be asking for the placement that your child is going to go to anyway in September, then it might be better to wait for the move and for the new school to gather enough evidence to start the Statutory Assessment process. Once your child has moved they will need to make some baseline assessments, and sometimes moving school involves different professionals. It is a hard call. But you do need at least two IEPs anyway, and if you are turned down you do have to wait another 6 months - however if you are turned down you can appeal that decision to SENDIST. The new school sounds like they might be more able to identify and meet the needs anyway.

But when the Statutory Assessment is requested, it is worth writing to each professional with your concerns so that they all know what they are. This gives them a good opportunity to look at things like dyscalculia as part of the SA process and include it in their report.

I don't know about homeschooled children and statements. I would ask the LEA for their policy, and also speak with the NAS about it. But if the older child is moving to a better school and the SA will be starting later on for that child, then maybe it is worth requesting a SA for the child you are considering to homeschool because it seems that situation is more desperate ie. the old school cannot meet the needs and there are no places in the new school you want them to go to.

[wasuup]

Thanks all for replying <'>

 

The 2nd IEP is due in May so may as well wait until then and I should know more about the panal meeting then as well. Will let you know of any developments.