Reason for my off topic post

[Diane]

Well what can i say the LEA are penny pinching again.

 

As some of you know my DS struggled badly with mainstream despite being supportedby CMHAS and an outreach teacher. He started attending a speciliased PRU in October of last year and his outreach teacher went with him. She not only supported our DS but also us as a family.

 

Earlier this week the LEA in there wisdom changed our DS's funding pot and axed his support overnight. He was funded by his mainstream school and is now funded direct from county as fr as I am aware. I have had no letter to explain any of this to me. I had to find out for myself. His outreach teacher is not happy and is trying to get the funding back so she can give the much needed support.

 

What the LEA did do was send me a letter congratualting on the fact that my son would be starting at the school he already attends in September. I am going to phone them today. This is a letter for Year nine parents. Idiots!!

 

So now the fight is on the get it reinstated.

 

I will need all the luck in the world. I know they will drag their feet.

 

I think those who sit in their little boxes and make these dicisions have no idea the impat on what they decide has. If they were made to come out to the real world and see the havoc their decisions have on peoples lives i'd like to think the outcome would be very different.

 

 

[Karen A]

Hi.Do you have a Statement that documents provision including the outreach teacher and names the PRU ?

If so can the LA do that legally ?

Before last week I would have said that the LA could not just change provision without amending a Statement

 

The LA should have a legal responsibility to provide what is documented in the Statement so they should not be able to change arrangements because of funding cut backs.

However it has become apparent that the situation may be different regarding PRUs.

I have found on another thread I have been posting on that LAs can do all sorts of things I would have said could not be done.

Do phone IPSEA or ACE for specialist advice.They may be busy.I have directed several people their way this week and people are having trouble getting through but do keep trying. Karen.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Karen A

[Diane]

GRRRRRRRRRRRR! i have workmen fitting a floor today and they unplugged my wifi as i pressed add reply.

 

I will try again!

 

Hi Karen

 

My DS does not have a statement as he does not have 'learning difficulties' he is high functioning. A very intelligent child who just has a learning need as far as social communication is concerned. Not enough to warrant a statement in these parts. Yet he is bad enough to be seen for two and a half years by CAMHS, attend a PRU and have an outreach teacher. Soon to be having an assessment for medication. As far as the LEA are concerned he is not a problem that needs supporting!

 

I have just phoned the area education office and guess what the person dealing with my DS's case is not available infact they do not know if she works today or if at all. Why am I not surprised.

 

yes i feel as as if i am :wallbash:

 

[Karen A]

GRRRRRRRRRRRR! i have workmen fitting a floor today and they unplugged my wifi as i pressed add reply.

 

I will try again!

 

Hi Karen

 

My DS does not have a statement as he does not have 'learning difficulties' he is high functioning. A very intelligent child who just has a learning need as far as social communication is concerned. Not enough to warrant a statement in these parts. Yet he is bad enough to be seen for two and a half years by CAMHS, attend a PRU and have an outreach teacher. Soon to be having an assessment for medication. As far as the LEA are concerned he is not a problem that needs supporting!

 

I have just phoned the area education office and guess what the person dealing with my DS's case is not available infact they do not know if she works today or if at all. Why am I not surprised.

 

yes i feel as as if i am :wallbash:

 

As I appear to be saying ever more frequently I am not an expert.

However how about requesting a Statutary Assessment again if you have not done so recently ?

At least then when the LA turn it down you could go to tribunal if you wished.

Ben is very bright indeed and his main need is regarding Social Communication.Fortunately my LA is more supportive than yours.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Karen A

[Diane]

Thank you Karen.

[Diane]

I have an email address for the EOTAS officer dealing with my DS. I now need to calm down and think very carefully about what i want to say. Any suggestions welcome

 

[Karen A]

Thank you Karen.

 

 

I just hope my last post did not sound too sarcastic it was not intended to be.I am just fed up with LAs this week.Too many people being messed around. <'> Karen.

 

[Karen A]

I have an email address for the EOTAS officer dealing with my DS. I now need to calm down and think very carefully about what i want to say. Any suggestions welcome

 

What is EOTAS please ?

Cannot promise much help with calming down....not good at that myself.

 

[Karen A]

Education Otherwise Than At School ???

[Diane]

Yes that is who they are. Why they are involved i do not know i have never home schooled my son.

 

Your post did not sound sarcastic but i did pick up on your frustration for all of us in this positon. It is nice to know you care.

 

[Karen A]

Yes that is who they are. Why they are involved i do not know i have never home schooled my son.

 

Your post did not sound sarcastic but i did pick up on your frustration for all of us in this positon. It is nice to know you care.

Thanks.

Are they invloved because your son is in a PRU ?

Maybe they cover PRUs too.Karen.

[Diane]

I think they are involved because of the PRU but it is the first I knew of it. Nothing quite like keeping the parent informed is there!

 

I guess a lot more people and departments get involved than we realise. I would have liked to have been at the referral meeting or at least had the opportunity to submit my views in some way.

 

I have to go now, catch you later.

[Sally44]

I would definately recommend that you contact the NAS, ISPEA or ACE.

Statements are not just about academic ability.

My understanding of the legal definition of 'education' is that it involves preparing a child for independent adult life.

That is the definition IPSEA uses on their website which they have taken from case law, and case law means that that is the legal interpretation of the word 'education'.

That being the case a child with difficulties involving language, communication, social interaction and play, imagination difficulties, anxiety, mental illness difficulties etc etc, would still be identified as educational needs that could be part of a Statement. But that is my opinion and needs checking. For example there are many children with ADHD who are Statemented, and many of them are doing okay academically.

My understanding of 'what child needs a Statement' is any child that needs significantly more support than their peers. And a child can fit that description in special, mixed or mainstream school.

And you need to demonstrate that your child's needs are complex and in some cases that involves providing written reports that only staff that are suitably qualified should be teaching your child. For example your child might be doing okay academically (but would they do even better if the work was presented in an autistic friendly way), and if the child has anger or emotional difficulties is the teacher contributing towards this by the language they use or the teaching approach they use. Has the school and EP put together a programme for recognising emotions in others and their own emotional state.

As your child has been in a PRU unit, what are the issues that resulted in him being there? There are many children with anger, disruptive, agressive behaviour who are actually there because their needs (due to their diagnosis of ASD, anxiety and Language, social communication and sensory isses etc) are not being met. Once those needs are identified and met in a structured environment with experienced staff, the behaviours usually reduce or disappear.

 

I have heard LEAs argue from every point of view as to 'why' a child should not have a statement. Eg. they refuse to assess because their needs are not complex (but how do you know if you don't assess?); they don't need a special school (children in any educational environment can have a statement); their needs can be met under current funding at their current school (any child that fulfills the criteria for a statement should receive one); that only children that remain in mainstream school need a statement (trying to confuse parents into believing they can't get a statement or that getting a statement is enough and a different placement is not necessary); there are no SEN places available within the LEA (that is not the issue. If the child needs an SEN placement that is what it should say on the Statement and the LEA has to find a suitable place, or fund a level of SEN support in a mainstream setting or fund an out of county placement). These are all blanket policies and are illegal. Each child is different and each case needs assessing individually.

 

By asking for a Statutory Assessment the LEA has to ask all professionals involved to produce reports about your child. That may be helpful in getting an up to date picture of his needs. As a parent I would want to know specifically why my child had ended up in a PRU unit ie. identify ask professionals to identify the needs and make very specific recommendations about the supports, structures and strategies and staffing provision that should be made to address and support those needs.

When I sent in the request for a SA for my child I wrote a letter to each professional and itemised my concerns which I felt fell within their remit and I asked them to comment on them in their report. All of them did that to varying degrees. But I did find that although they identified some of the needs I had concerned about, they were not prescriptive in identifying how those needs should be met. The EP told me she did this so that the school would have some flexibility. That is not what the Code of Practice says. It says that hours of support and staffing arrangements should be specific. Infact so specific that no-one is in any doubt as to what is expected of them. If any flexibility is built into the statement it is for the benefit of the child and not the system.

This my opinion, but I think it is hard - no impossible - for an LEA SALT (as an example) to say that in their opinion a child needs weekly therapy from a SALT. That is because they don't have those staffing levels. The only way a child gets that provision is if it is stated in reports that go towards a statement and that statement is agreed by the LEA - which would usually involve going to tribunal for that level of support - then the LEA has to fund that extra cost. So an LEA SALT cannot recommend a level of support that their department doesn't currently have the funds to meet. That I think is the core deficit in the current system. All professionals that observe and assess should not be tied to the LEA because they are bound to bear in mind what they know their department can provide and will recommend within that limit.

There are ways of gathering other evidence of needs. That might involved getting private independent reports, or it can involve getting information via other sources. For example my son went to Play Therapy for around 18 months and the Play Therapist wrote a two page letter stating what my son's play and social interaction skills were like and whether he liked or enjoyed interaction with other adults and peers. That was very useful in getting him support for learning social skills from SALT and getting supports for him during playtimes and dinnertimes. Again the progress he has made in this area is remarkable.

[Sally44]

I just wanted to add that I was told by the EP that she would not agree to a SA if I was not prepared to move my son to a SEN school. Which I agreed to so the EP agreed to assess, only to find out there were no SEN places available. But the EP had also been incorrect in stating a blanket policy.

If you think your child needs a special school then they do need a Statement to get a place. But a child can be in any educational placement and receive a Statement. Even moving mainstream to mainstream if the move involves moving to the 'nearest suitable school'. You just need the written evidence to prove that that school is the nearest suitable one and the best use of resources.

[jordansmum33ok]

Hi really hope you get somewhere

i had trouble making calls so used the text service.. which was really helpful and i emailed NAS which also gave me support

 

i feel the same way as you in that a meeting would have helped

 

the schools/LEA call fall more parent involvement then do this, imo its terrible

 

good luck

 

this forum has opened my eyes and given me lots of support.. x

Edited May 15, 2009 by jordansmum33ok

[Kazzen161]

PRUs are generally only seen as temporary placements - the intention being that the child later either returns to their mainsteam school, or evidence is gathered that a specialist placement is needed.

 

PRUs do come under the remit of EOTAS (as a PRU is not technically a "school").

 

I would be asking what is the plan for your child - to go back to the mainstream? If so why - is he now able to cope? What evidence is there of this? What support will he get in the mainstream? If you are unhappy with this, then you would need to apply for a statutory assessment, as once he has a Statement you would be able to consider specialist schools.

 

 

 

 

[Diane]

PRUs are generally only seen as temporary placements - the intention being that the child later either returns to their mainsteam school, or evidence is gathered that a specialist placement is needed.

 

PRUs do come under the remit of EOTAS (as a PRU is not technically a "school").

 

I would be asking what is the plan for your child - to go back to the mainstream? If so why - is he now able to cope? What evidence is there of this? What support will he get in the mainstream? If you are unhappy with this, then you would need to apply for a statutory assessment, as once he has a Statement you would be able to consider specialist schools.

 

As far as I am aware my son is at the PRU until he leaves at the end of year 11 or12 (6th form) if i can secure the funding. returning to mainstream is not an option for him or the majority of the other children who attend.

 

80% of the children at the PRU are on the spectrum and have spent years out of school. the remaining 20% of children are school phobic or have a condition which means they cannot attend mainstream. there are 32 children across years 10,11 and 12 so it is a small school for KS4 only.

 

His funding was changed because his mainstream school was paying for him to attend the PRU and for his taxis, each April a referral panel sits and they move children to different funding pots. They are keeping him at the PRU but not paying for the outreach support we were receiving because changing pots mean we nolonger need the support!! :wallbash: The people who made this decision have never met us or know anything about our family situation.

 

Since I started this post his outreach teacher is seeing if she can get the support back in place, I will know the outcome of this next week. CAMHS cannot believe what has happened and are also waiting to see the outcome of her efforts before they get involved.

 

As you can imagine I am keeping everything crossed which of course makes walking very difficult :lol:

 

I will update when i have heard back.

 

Thank you all once again.

[Sally44]

As far as I am aware my son is at the PRU until he leaves at the end of year 11 or12 (6th form) if i can secure the funding. returning to mainstream is not an option for him or the majority of the other children who attend.

 

80% of the children at the PRU are on the spectrum and have spent years out of school. the remaining 20% of children are school phobic or have a condition which means they cannot attend mainstream. there are 32 children across years 10,11 and 12 so it is a small school for KS4 only.

 

His funding was changed because his mainstream school was paying for him to attend the PRU and for his taxis, each April a referral panel sits and they move children to different funding pots. They are keeping him at the PRU but not paying for the outreach support we were receiving because changing pots mean we nolonger need the support!! :wallbash: The people who made this decision have never met us or know anything about our family situation.

 

Since I started this post his outreach teacher is seeing if she can get the support back in place, I will know the outcome of this next week. CAMHS cannot believe what has happened and are also waiting to see the outcome of her efforts before they get involved.

 

As you can imagine I am keeping everything crossed which of course makes walking very difficult :lol:

 

I will update when i have heard back.

 

Thank you all once again.

 

If PRUs are supposed to be temporary, it sounds like children are becoming permant there because the LEA has nothing else to offer. However you might be able to get an out of county placement at an independent or private ASD only school. The LEA won't tell you that or offer you that. But they are responsible for providing a suitable educational environment. It might be worth speaking with the NAS/IPSEA or ACE about this.

 

[Diane]

If PRUs are supposed to be temporary, it sounds like children are becoming permant there because the LEA has nothing else to offer. However you might be able to get an out of county placement at an independent or private ASD only school. The LEA won't tell you that or offer you that. But they are responsible for providing a suitable educational environment. It might be worth speaking with the NAS/IPSEA or ACE about this.

 

I am actually very happy with his PRU placement. Through my work I have been to many PRU's and this is like no other that I have ever come across. It is a wonderful place and totally geared to kids on the spectrum. I would like him to stay at this school but he still needs his outreach worker as do we his family. If we are to lose the outreach worker then a transition period is needed and school need to take up the slack and be given time to do this.

 

Our nearest Private ASD school of any worth is in Hampshire and I know a family who are funded by LEA for their child to attend. Due to my DS high levels of anxiety removing him from the home is out of the question and i would not be happy with that as it is not what is needed. I feel would cause emotional damage that he would never recover from.

 

As it is he has an hours journey in the taxi at the beginning and the end of each day the fact that he has managed to do th is is just brilliant as i was taking him in and picking him up for a long time. Also for the first time he has what he calls friend! I cannot take this away from him.

 

All I want is the support but back in place as it was working well alongside the PRU.

 

The link for his PRU is as follows

 

http://www.parkside.suffolk.sch.uk/

 

It may take a while to load.

 

 

 

[Karen A]

I am actually very happy with his PRU placement. Through my work I have been to many PRU's and this is like no other that I have ever come across. It is a wonderful place and totally geared to kids on the spectrum. I would like him to stay at this school but he still needs his outreach worker as do we his family. If we are to lose the outreach worker then a transition period is needed and school need to take up the slack and be given time to do this.

 

Our nearest Private ASD school of any worth is in Hampshire and I know a family who are funded by LEA for their child to attend. Due to my DS high levels of anxiety removing him from the home is out of the question and i would not be happy with that as it is not what is needed. I feel would cause emotional damage that he would never recover from.

 

As it is he has an hours journey in the taxi at the beginning and the end of each day the fact that he has managed to do th is is just brilliant as i was taking him in and picking him up for a long time. Also for the first time he has what he calls friend! I cannot take this away from him.

 

All I want is the support but back in place as it was working well alongside the PRU.

 

The link for his PRU is as follows

 

http://www.parkside.suffolk.sch.uk/

 

It may take a while to load.

 

It sounds like excellent provision.

Most PRUs now appear to be provision for students who have been excluded.It is unusual to come across provision for students who are vulnerable for other reasons.It is sad that there are not more places like this.

I hope that you are able to have the support put back in place.

I can understand how you feel about residential.I think we would feel the same to be honest.Karen.

 

[Kazzen161]

It does look good.

 

If the LA start quibbling about reinstating the outreach, then it might be worth dropping in "well, of course I would like X to stay here, but if he is not going to get the outreach support, we will have to look further at Y school".

 

Independent specialist schools are going to be a lot more expensive than the PRU, even with the outreach worker.

[Karen A]

It does look good.

 

If the LA start quibbling about reinstating the outreach, then it might be worth dropping in "well, of course I would like X to stay here, but if he is not going to get the outreach support, we will have to look further at Y school".

 

Independent specialist schools are going to be a lot more expensive than the PRU, even with the outreach worker.

 

Kazzen you are very good. :

Karen.

 

[Diane]

It does look good.

 

If the LA start quibbling about reinstating the outreach, then it might be worth dropping in "well, of course I would like X to stay here, but if he is not going to get the outreach support, we will have to look further at Y school".

 

Independent specialist schools are going to be a lot more expensive than the PRU, even with the outreach worker.

 

 

I like this idea. Thank you.

[Sally44]

I like this idea. Thank you.

 

Yes that would be a good way to go. Afterall it would be the LEAs "best use of their resources" to support your child where they are then have to pay a significant amount of extra money. Are other pupils remaining in this unit until they are school leaving age? Whatever placement you are aiming at you have to use the right arguments and get the written evidence that that is "the nearest suitable school" for your child. These are all things quoted in the Code of Practice and they are arguments that parents as well as LEAs can use. I presume the unit is supporting your wanting to remain with them?

What does the outreach worker do, and I presume they are funded separately from the placement at the PRU. And can the school replace them with something similar supplied by themselves?

[Diane]

Yes that would be a good way to go. Afterall it would be the LEAs "best use of their resources" to support your child where they are then have to pay a significant amount of extra money. Are other pupils remaining in this unit until they are school leaving age? Whatever placement you are aiming at you have to use the right arguments and get the written evidence that that is "the nearest suitable school" for your child. These are all things quoted in the Code of Practice and they are arguments that parents as well as LEAs can use. I presume the unit is supporting your wanting to remain with them?

What does the outreach worker do, and I presume they are funded separately from the placement at the PRU. And can the school replace them with something similar supplied by themselves?

 

 

the majority of the other children remain in this PRU until school leaving age. I do not want to change his placement as the PRU is good for him.

 

The provision I have lost as a result of his place being paid for from a different pot is the support from his outreach teacher. She helps him with his social understanding, anxiety issues and has been with him through a few transitions, she comes to our home and works with him here if that is what is needed. So she is an important part of his life and if the support is to be withdrawn then she needs to be allowed time to set up a withdrawal proramme so he is ok. He has great difficulty letting go of people and does not really understand why they cannot stay in his life like i do. It causes him great anxiety and impedes on his ability to function as a person., so it needs sensitive handling to minimise the impact and allow him to understand.

 

I myself would like to keep her onboard as it really is a great help and she has helped me climb out of many a hole.

 

She is seeing if she can get the funding to continue for a while so I have to wait and see just for this week.