Looking for a reason

[kazjam]

Hi,

After a very rocky couple of years I found out last night that it is almost certain my son has high functioning aspergers.

 

He has just been expelled from school where he started last september - the reason being his behaviours.

 

I need some advice and info from anyone who can help.

 

 

Within a couple of weeks of starting school problems arose but the school insisted he was a naughty boy and started sanctions and punishments. For some reason I think the person dealing with this at school thought he was being abused at home - I think as some of his behaviour was being interpreted (incorrectly it now transpires) as sexualised.

 

At first school said they would get in a psychologist (educational). I then sent in pages of notes on the history of my son to try and help them. They then decided CAHMS should deal with this and not a psychologist.

 

I still cannot understand this - why they made this decision. Can anyone tell me the difference between an Ed Psychologist and CAMHS?

 

As camhs would take ages I went to a phyciastrist who referred me to a clinical psycologist. This was his friend who I feel he may have passed me on to so the friend could make some spare cash. I was paying for all this as a private patient as my son is at private school. I was told my son had traits but no diagnosis. School continued to deal with my son as a risk and isolated him from other kids - he never even got to meet the special needs staff!! After arguing with the school that I felt they were not doing enough they kicked my son out.

 

It is only since looking for another school that I realised I needed an Educational Pschologirst in the first place so I am very upset at the time wasted on my son especially now it seems he does have a diagnosis after all.

 

I really need someone to shed light on why a school would change their mind from getting in an educational pschcologist to using CAHMS.

 

thanks

[purplehaze]

Hello

 

Sorry to hear you have had a rocky few years <'>

 

Your story really hit a nerve with me.

 

My son went through the 'naughty child' processes for many years at school-even with a diagnoses and statment some schools just don't understand.

 

Firstly I think the school may have seen CAMHS has being able to offer you more support from a wider range of professionals (may be for assessment and a DX). The school should have requested for the EP to be involved as well to support and help with school stuff/behaviour etc.

 

What is going to happen now-have you any parent supporters involved to help support you with school?

 

How does your son feel about leaving school-what kind of behaviour was your son displaying and why did the school exclude him?

 

Good luck with everything-keep us informed of how you are getting on with it all.

[kazjam]

Thanks for this. Sorry for my ignorance but what is a DX.

 

I am not sure what will happen now. Most schools had closed when he was kicked out.

 

I have been looking for other schools - both state and private but I am very very disappointed as he is very bright and was in a very academic school (one of the top schools in the private school league tables) and he loved the school work and was never a problem in the classroom. So wherever he goes he will not get as good an education academically as where he was.

 

I now realise that he needs a much smaller school, smaller class sizes and someone who really understands him - it is just finding the right place. I cannot afford to get it wrong this time.

 

I am finding it hard just now as I know I have to be positive and move on but I am so angry that a school has done this to him. He was kicked out for over a term and a half just sat at home with my 70 yrs old mother (as I am at work) and school didn't call us once! They seemed to me to be on a mission to get rid. They wouldn't acknowlege bullying which was dreadful and didn't refer him to their special needs people. When he was in school they kept him shut away in all social times in the library with nothing to do. It was horrendous and I am very bitter. I really would like to complain as he has lost his place as they have not recognised he has this condition and I am very surprised when they advertise their expertise with all types of childen and special needs.

 

 

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Firstly, when a child presents as being challenging, the child is suspected of having a learning difficulty, having difficulties fitting in socially, etc, the school should have sought the expertise of an Educational Psychologist. It's their job to assess that child in consultation with the parents and the school and then involve/call in external agencies to meet that child's needs eg an Occupational Therapist, etc. All of that should be done, irrespective of a diagnosis.

 

I can fully understand why parents go down the private route. However, I've encountered a great number of instances whereby LEAs refuse to acknowledge a private diagnosis, hence reason it's best to sit it out and go via NHS route. All of this can be incredibly time consuming and stressful.

 

In my son's case, he was referred to CAMHS via healthcare (not education professionals). Psychiatrists, OTs, Psychologists, within CAMHS normally have specific expertise in assessing a child for an ASD. My son was actually diagnosed within the Communication Clinic located within local children's hospital. His consultant specialists in ASDs, but he was then referred to CAMHS because of suspected underlying issues ie possibility of a mood disorder. So, healthcare professionals can work in conjunction with each other and there may be a bit of passing your case around from pillar to post (again, very time consuming and frustrating - it's worth phoning and asking for cancellation appointments!). An Ed Psych on the other hand, should not diagnose a child (they aren't qualified to do so), though it's within their remit to suggest that a child may have X and then act on that in terms of meeting their needs at school.

 

I found it helpful to keep a diary of how things were at home - it showed all the odd traits/characteristics/behaviours/etc. I'm sure that some perhaps thought I was a soft touch and that my son was naughty, but it soon became obvious that that wasn't the case. I've found that it's becoming more and more obvious that he has AS as time goes by. I had to develop a very thick skin and ensure I stood up for myself and pushed for support for R. It's hard going, but it seems that's how things are.

 

You could phone NAS - Advocacy for Education:

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=941

and ask their advice.

 

Although strictly perhaps not the done thing, there's nothing to say you can't phone your local LEA yourself and demand that your child be referred to an Ed Psych on the grounds of X, Y, Z - presumably you have reports, etc.

 

Best wishes with it all. Keep us posted.

 

Caroline.

[Kazzen161]

An Educaticlinical psychologist cannot diagnose ASD. CAMHS (Child and Mental Health Service) has psychiatirsts who can + clinical psychologists who can give advise to the parents and work with the child. EPs can asses educational aspects, eg: IQ, and can advise the school on how to help the child.

[kazjam]

OMG.....I think I have a lot to learn about the way forward.

 

I think I am ok in looking around and choosing a school but having read your replies I am concerned about which way forward I should be going in getting help for my son. He really is not that bad. He is fine in classes and out of school in scouts, youth club etc. in fact he is away on holiday now with a group of kids he has never met before and I have not had a phonecall yet to complain !! He is great at home playing with just one or two kids. All his problems happen in unstructured times at school eg. lunch time , break time etc. mainly as he has been bullied and reacted. His reactions have been over the top sometimes. At home he is worse and can explode if frustrated.

 

The sequence of events was

 

1. school said he needed an educational pschcologist

2. they changed their mind and said no...he needed CAMHS

3. they suspended him for months

4. i went to CAMHS a couple of times and realised it would take ages and I needed him back in school - he was not being educted at all (this was a private school)

5. i got a private phyciatrist ( i didn't really know what he needed but went here for advice) He said he had traits of aspergers and add but not enough for diagnosis

6. pschcyatrist referred my son to a clinical pyschologist who did work on my sons reactions to provocation

7 school had him back on a risk assessment and isolated him - rather than on a special needs plan

8 school expelled him

9 I visited other schools and the first one said get your son to an ed pschy straight away.

10. I employed a private ed pshcy who says he has high functioning aspergers and will hep me when my son goes to another school as he will liaise with us and school and help my son. I am sure this is going to cost me a fortune!!

 

 

 

Do you think I am on the right track now. Having read your posts I think perhaps I should go to my doctor and get a referral but will they only refer to an ed pyschologist anyway. Also I am confused about CAMHS and wonder if I should go back there instead or call the people referred to in another post above.

 

Can someone please help me with the right way to go. At this rate I am going to be totally stressed out and have no money left!!

 

Thanks

 

[purplehaze]

Hi again

 

DX just means a diagnoses etc

 

If I were you I would firstly go to my GP and ask for a referal to CAMHS-take a list of things your son needs support with/behaviours etc

 

They should then assess your son to see if they think he needs further support/assesssments from other professionals etc.

 

When you sort out a school explain to them that your son has difficulties with X Y & Z etc and what support he will get etc etc.

 

You could also contact someone from your local parent partnership groups for support to make sure you get the right support in school etc. The school will go through a system

school action-school offer support/targets etc

school action plus-other professionals will come in to school and support/offer advice etc

RSA-request for statutory assessment-which can lead to a statement of educational support

 

Not all children need to go through the stages some access support from the school and achieve well some need more support from other professionals, some need even more support and funding etc.

 

It can be a slow process-take all the reports/info you have when you visit your GP.

 

Example-communication difficulties, social/emotional difficulties, behaviour difficulties, physical difficulties etc etc-describe everything to your GP.

 

How old is your son?

 

My son has just left a terrible secondary school (IMHO) who couldn't meet his needs with 22hrs statement support and he now is attending a SEN school and outreach prgramme and has done much better in 2 weeks than he ever did in years at the other school.

 

Big schools can find it hard to meet individual needs as they have so many children to look after.

 

Take care xxx

 

OMG.....I think I have a lot to learn about the way forward.

 

I think I am ok in looking around and choosing a school but having read your replies I am concerned about which way forward I should be going in getting help for my son. He really is not that bad. He is fine in classes and out of school in scouts, youth club etc. in fact he is away on holiday now with a group of kids he has never met before and I have not had a phonecall yet to complain !! He is great at home playing with just one or two kids. All his problems happen in unstructured times at school eg. lunch time , break time etc. mainly as he has been bullied and reacted. His reactions have been over the top sometimes. At home he is worse and can explode if frustrated.

 

The sequence of events was

 

1. school said he needed an educational pschcologist

2. they changed their mind and said no...he needed CAMHS

3. they suspended him for months

4. i went to CAMHS a couple of times and realised it would take ages and I needed him back in school - he was not being educted at all (this was a private school)

5. i got a private phyciatrist ( i didn't really know what he needed but went here for advice) He said he had traits of aspergers and add but not enough for diagnosis

6. pschcyatrist referred my son to a clinical pyschologist who did work on my sons reactions to provocation

7 school had him back on a risk assessment and isolated him - rather than on a special needs plan

8 school expelled him

9 I visited other schools and the first one said get your son to an ed pschy straight away.

10. I employed a private ed pshcy who says he has high functioning aspergers and will hep me when my son goes to another school as he will liaise with us and school and help my son. I am sure this is going to cost me a fortune!!

 

 

 

Do you think I am on the right track now. Having read your posts I think perhaps I should go to my doctor and get a referral but will they only refer to an ed pyschologist anyway. Also I am confused about CAMHS and wonder if I should go back there instead or call the people referred to in another post above.

 

Can someone please help me with the right way to go. At this rate I am going to be totally stressed out and have no money left!!

 

Thanks

 

[bid]

Welcome to the forum

 

If you want an NHS assessment and possible resulting dx (diagnosis) for your son then you will need a referral from your GP to either your community paediatrician or CAMHS. This will be the starting place, and dependent on your son's age, the paed. would refer him to the CDC (Child Development Clinic) or actually to CAMHS anyway.

 

An NHS dx may take some time, as usually the child will be assessed over a number of sessions and at home and school too.

 

From my experience, an NHS dx is very much worth having as if you or a future school decide to apply for a Statement (of Special Educational Needs) you may well find that it is far more readily accepted than a private dx.

 

An Ed Psych. is not able to assess and give a dx. They are purely looking at any educational special needs or learning difficulties, and put together the plan for how these needs can be met within the school environment.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Bid

[kazjam]

Thanks everyone ....... I am realising very quickly that this is not just clear cut.....and I will make a doctors appointment tomorrow.

 

This morning I felt great that I finally know what is up! (Well not great as it is upsetting but perhaps a feeling of relief that I now know what is wrong). This was after the Educational Psychologist said my son has high functioning aspergers.

 

However, after reading your posts I now see that he is not qualified to diagnose this.

 

The adolescent psychiatrist told me there was no diagnosis.....just traits of ADD and aspergers.

 

 

So now I feel a bit confused and not so good as before. Should I listen to the psychiatrist who is qualified to diagnose or the Educational Psychologist?

 

I feel the path to here has been murky......suddendly last night I felt great that I had a definite reason....now I am feeling down again as one professional says one thing and another something slightly different.

 

Do other people experience this? The different opinions and still not knowing for sure?

 

[Mumble]

I employed a private ed pshcy who says he has high functioning aspergers

As another poster has said, Ed Psychs can't give a dx. I would also be questioning the above: High Functioning Asperger's is not a diagnosis - either it's High Functioning Autism or Asperger's (which in itself implies high-functioning - there are not labelled different levels of functionality within the dx - although each individual is of course different).

 

[cmuir]

OMG.....I think I have a lot to learn about the way forward.

 

I think I am ok in looking around and choosing a school but having read your replies I am concerned about which way forward I should be going in getting help for my son. He really is not that bad. ... At home he is worse and can explode if frustrated.

 

The sequence of events was

 

3. they suspended him for months

7 school had him back on a risk assessment and isolated him - rather than on a special needs plan

8 school expelled him

 

Thanks

 

 

Hi

 

I'm not trying to be patronising, rude, etc, but the fact that the school have suspended your son and then expelled him indicates that there are real problems. I note you've said he's not that bad, but clearly your son has significant problems that need to be addressed. It's unfortunate that the school haven't gone about things in a more helpful and constructive way.

 

Again, I'd reiterate that an Ed Psych whether NHS or private is not qualified to diagnose an ASD. Your GP is a good starting point, but if you're already in the 'system', I'd be inclined to get back onto CAMHS. Provide them with copies of reports from the school and give them your own summarised report. You need answers and a reason why your son is finding things difficult/has been expelled/explodes at home. I had to develop a no-nonsense personality (something I found difficult). My son was passed from pillar to post - told he had some AS traits, but didn't quite tick every box. I persevered and insisted on referrals and second opinions before finally getting to see a consultant who was an expert in the field - she diagnosed AS. Stick with it, see your GP, but also get back onto CAMHS. You'll need to pursue every avenue (it's worth asking for cancellation appointments).

 

Also, contact NAS.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

[purplehaze]

Hi, you certainly need thing to be made clear and put on paper by the right professionals.

 

Going to your Doctor is the right next step-IMHO

 

Did the EP put anything on paper or was it just word of mouth?

 

I believe you shouldn't have to spend any money to see the right professionals your son needs to see for support (this can be hard or take longer than you would want). Parents can struggle but believe me it is worth battling on. XXX

[kazjam]

I have now made a doctors appointment. I have nothing in writing from the Ed Pysch - only a conversation in which he said he had seen the same scenario 100 times or more and was convinced my son had the high functioning aspergers.

 

When I say my son is not that bad, obviously I am biased as he is my son...but I do feel he has had a rough passage and been very misunderstood.

 

Before christmas he was being badly bullied a school and bottled it all up. One boy in particular was awful...calling him gay....taking his bag,...encouraging other kids to be awful to him. There is a set way for the kids to use the stairs at the school....one particular set of stairs can only be used to go up and not down. My son was going up and this other kid who'd been bullying was coming down when he shouldn't have been (I think this would have aggravated my son to start with!)...then the boy called him names, tripped him and kicked him. My son grabbed the boy by the leg and pulled him down 2 stairs in retaliation. The other kid said he'd been grabbed between the leg and sexually assaulted. There were no witnesses only the other boys couple of friends who backed him up. My son was suspended for one and a half terms for this.

 

On the second day back at school the same boy made another serious allegation about my son which was proved to be over exaggerated and unfounded! This is why I say my son is not that bad as I do not believe for a minute he sexually assaulted another boy.

 

After this he was isolated from all other children which made him go more and more into his shell. When he did go to lessons the bullying continued but school did nothing about it.....although they knew it was going on it was swept under the carpet as I think they had already decided to get rid of my son.

 

He was never referred to a special needs teacher even though they have these.

 

It just went from bad to worse and although I say he was expelled...this is not strictly true.....he is not allowed to go back to school as the school says i do not trust them anymore and so the contract between us must end! This is a private and not a state school so they can do this. In effect it is expulsion of my son but due to my sticking up for him rather than by his own fault.