Statutory assesment

[dana]

Hi,

I received a letter from LEA informing me that my son's school has applied for Statutary assesment and they are asking for more information and my views before they decide wheather to proceed. I have been thinking to send them a copy of a private report from SALT since my son has only just recently been refered to the paediatrician for suspected ASD and hasn't got any other.Is that a good idea? SALT's opinion is that there is a strong possibility that he has ASD after she assesed him.

Wish us luck with the assesment to take place, please!

 

Danaxxx

Edited August 8, 2009 by dana

[NickyB]

Hi dana

 

Personally, I sent copies of all the reports I had which might support our case - I don't think you can ever send too much!

Having said that, our initial request was turned down

I spoke to the LEA and they said the SALT report hadn't been sent - then they miraculously 'found' it when I mentioned going to appeal! They are now considering our case again. I'm pretty sure it was all delaying tactics, to see if we would put up a fight. I really hope you don't have the same experience with your LEA.

 

Keep a copy of everything you send - I also asked them to send me copies of ALL the documents they referred to when they made their decision. I think that will be useful if we do have to go to appeal.

 

Good luck with it all

[dana]

Thanks, Nicky.

Our SENCO (and the headteacher) is pessimistic about it but she wrote in her application for the assesment that I AM going to fight for it if I have to (bless her!). We don't have much time before my son goes to secondary school since he will be year 6 in September. If they refuse to asses him and I have to appeal and wait again for their decision we will not have time to get the statement before he goes to secondary school. Without it he will not be able to cope there.

I am sorry that you had to fight for it and I hope that this time they will decide to proceed with the process.

Good luck to you too.

 

Danaxxx

 

 

[Sally44]

Hi,

I received a letter from LEA informing me that my son's school has applied for Statutary assesment and they are asking for more information and my views before they decide wheather to proceed. I have been thinking to send them a copy of a private report from SALT since my son has only just recently been refered to the paediatrician for suspected ASD and hasn't got any other.Is that a good idea? SALT's opinion is that there is a strong possibility that he has ASD after she assesed him.

Wish us luck with the assesment to take place, please!

 

Danaxxx

 

Do you know whether, if it is an ASD, if it is more likely Aspergers or Autism/ASD? Did his language develop typically up to age 3 or was his language absent, delayed or disordered.

If the school are asking for an Assessment, I presume he has been through school action and school action plus, and therefore he must have been seen by the LEA SALT and Ed Psych. What was their opinon?

If he still does not have a diagnosis, then I would seek one through Health ie. go to your GP and say he is having problems at school. Everyone involved suspects an ASD and that you want him referred to a multi disciplinary team that has experience of diagnosing Autism and Aspergers. Although it isn't essential to have a diagnosis to get a Statement, if you are seeking a Statement on the grounds that he has 'ASD' associated difficulties, then the fact that you don't have a diagnosis yet might be interpretated as he does not have such significant problems otherwise he would already have a diagnosis. Also consider all the areas of difficulty with an ASD ie. the social interaction and sensory side as well.

[Kathryn]

Missed this thread - good luck Dana!

 

K x

[Sally44]

Hi,

I received a letter from LEA informing me that my son's school has applied for Statutary assesment and they are asking for more information and my views before they decide wheather to proceed. I have been thinking to send them a copy of a private report from SALT since my son has only just recently been refered to the paediatrician for suspected ASD and hasn't got any other.Is that a good idea? SALT's opinion is that there is a strong possibility that he has ASD after she assesed him.

Wish us luck with the assesment to take place, please!

 

Danaxxx

 

Sorry Dana, I just re-read and saw that he has just been referred to the paediatrician, so you are already going in the right direction for a diagnosis.

[Grace]

Hi Dana,

 

Do you have any idea of how much help your son will need? Has the school/SALT discussed this with you e.g. number of hours? Did the SALT make any recommendations in her report for the amount of help needed?

 

I notice that you have already got a private SALT report. If your son will need a lot of help, you think you will have a battle and time is tight; a private Educational Psychologist could diagnose any ASD, assess his needs and write what help he should have. They can be very expensive and are often only considered at the point of tribunal, but it's just a thought!

 

An assessment through the health service should give a thorough assessment too, but I had to go on a waiting list for my son's.

 

Good luck!

[dana]

Thank you all for your replies.

SALT (private) recomended one to one support and ongoing input of SALT to help the school as well as us. She also stated in her report that most of the findings of the assesment strongly suggest that my son is on the ASD continuum.

There is a huge waiting list for NHS SALT so this speeded the proc ess a little bit but I AM worried because there is also a huge waiting list for paediatrician.

What I have also done is that together with the recent SALT report I also sent the report of another private SALT who assesed my son just before he started year 5 in September last year which showed that his language skills were within normal range of his age ( he was 9 then),his social and comunication skills were not assesed at a time. The new report done after 10 months at school showed that he regressed and that his skills are now age equivalent 7:0-8:4 and he is now 10 years old!. In the letter to LEA I pointed out that and said that this is due because he did not have enough one to one support at school. The first report was good because prior to that he was home educated for 2 years because of his health problems and had a lot of one to one support from me during that time at home. The new report also shows that he has particulary difficulties in communication and social skills as well as some difficulties in expressive language and comprehention. Further it shows that my ds lives in his fantasy world, often confusing it with the real one.

I have so many mixed feelings about all this. I wish that the second report was good and positive, showing his good progress

but if it is like that I wouldn't be able to use it to support the statutory assesment. I am so sad I have to look at it this way. It is wrong, it feels wrong.

Anyway, was all that a good idea?

 

Danaxxx

 

 

[Sally44]

Unfortunately that is just how the system is. A Statement is to secure and provide support in terms of staffing provision and hours. Therefore you are just concentrating on their needs and difficulties. Although strengths or learning styles can be incorporated into the Statement. If your son needs SALT and cannot get access to one that is the very reason you need a Statement. As you've mentioned, the social interaction/communication side is very important, especially as they move to their teen years. My son is 8 and has alot of SALT input (weekly sessions in school), which is practised daily by his key worker in school. He goes to a Social Skills Club and dinnertime clubs. The Statement also specifically lists the areas of difficulty my son has and which the SALT is to work on, and this includes Social Language/Social Communication and Play Skills.

You say your sons expressive language was age appropriate, but has now regressed. What is his receptive language skills like. Those with Aspergers tend to develop age appropriate language and sometimes are well advanced. Those with autism/ASD sometimes rote learn language or use echolalia or their language is delayed/disordered. I think from a language point of view a child with autism/ASD would be more likely to regress than a child with Aspergers. But that is my opinion and I am not a professional. Have a look at Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder, Delayed echolalia and see if any of those sound relevant.

If he is regressing and having difficulties with language then whole class teaching maybe very difficult for him and he may need small group work; work presented visually and not just orally.

Also have a look at Executive Functions because he may have difficulties with sequencing tasks, planning, organising etc.

What are the specific recommendations that the LEA/NHS professionals have made. They should have itemised the needs in their report and then specified how those needs should be met in school. That is the part that I found difficult to get them to do. In the Code of Practice is states that the Statement should specify and quantify in terms of staffing provision and hours of support, and the Statement is put together from the reports made.

As school have asked for the Assessment towards a Statement I would speak with them about the reports provided and ask them their opinion. School will be expected to provide some support out of their own budget, but they should be able to explain to you what they can do and what extra is needed on top.

If the reports do not contain the recommendations on how to meet the needs they have identified (and do you also agree that they have identified every need?), then you can write to them asking them to make recommendations.

It is a tough slog, but you do have to keep on top of it and keep pushing them to do their job. Sometimes that means going to tribunal because alot of LEAs will do anything to get out of having to fund the support these children need.

Remember that the NAS/IPSEA and also an organisation called KIDS can give you alot of help and advice.

[Grace]

Hi Dana,

 

I'd give you an assessment!

 

I'm no expert, but my understanding is that if you apply now and fail, once you have your diagnosis you can re-apply again, because there will be a significant change. i.e. before he did not have a diagnosis and now he does. I've got that idea from 'Surviving the Special Educational Needs System:How to be a Velvet Bulldozer' book. I can't recommend that book enough and the family in it home-educated at some point too. It might be slightly out of date, as it was when I went to tribunal, but the principles remain the same, even if the procedures have changed slightly. And most importantly of all, it gives you the sense that you are not going mad; they can really try a lot of tricks to make it very hard for parents to succeed.

 

If your SALT would actually write how many hours she/he recommends that would really help you. They can add it on as an addendum to their original report, if they did not specify number of hours originally.

 

Let us know how you get on!

[dana]

Thank you all for your advice.

I am a bit in a panic because the waiting list for paediatrician is up to 8 moths and we don't have that much time. And this would be just the first appointment not to mention to acctually get the diagnosis it takes months even a couple of years!

By the time he gets it he might be even 12 years old. By that time I would have to chose the school and he might be eaten alive in it without an additional support at least. I think he would the most benefit in Special School.

I am soooooo much upset on myself for not doing the whole thing long time ago when the headteacher in his year 1(in his previous school) was placing him in the acton plus. We were just not ready to accept his condition and were hoping that with hard work one to one with me he would "get out of it". How stupid we were. I cannot forgive ourselves now. I did work hard with my son, he did progress a lot especially with his language skills but none of that was enough of cours.

Well, we cannot do much about it now, can we?

 

Danaxxx

[Grace]

Dana, I think we all understand your panic.

 

But please be kinder to yourself; we don't come pre-programmed with SEN knowledge; it's a HUGE learning curve; please don't beat yourself up; you didn't ignore the problem, you tried very hard by the sound of it to really help your son and no one without a crystal ball could have said if it would have worked or not. And the thing is that all our children are so unique and change all the time that there is no way of predicting how things will work out.

 

Please try the NAS education advocacy service or SENDIST or similar. I have tried both of these in the past and have found them REALLY helpful. They can help gather your thoughts and put together a plan of action.

 

A diagnosis would definitely be helpful, but you can get a statement without one and I know children without a diagnosis at special schools.

 

Sometimes LEA's can surprise you (honestly!) and you might get over the first hurdle (getting a statutory assessment) without any problems.

 

Maybe someone on here can also help, but just to say I really feel for you.

 

Best Wishes

 

Grace/x

[Sally44]

I too understand exactly how you feel.

I initially noticed problems with my son at 3 years old when he went full time to nursery and could not cope. However the nursery owner said 'he is a boy' and that they were not concerned (although his nursery teacher was). The Health Visitor also saw him and was not concerned. Within 6 months of starting school I was called in and told they were having alot of problems with him. It took another 6 months to see the first professional, SALT. She assessed him and said to expect to get a diagnosis of an ASD. We were referred to the paediatrician which was another 6 months wait. The Ed Psych said she thought he was okay mainstream. It took 18 months to finally get a diagnosis. He did not progress at all in school and his former school had no idea of how to differentiate his work or adapt his work area etc. But still the Ed Psych said he should remain mainstream. By the time he was in year 2 and it was approaching Christmas I was panicking because I knew he would not cope with moving to junior school and I felt angry with professionals for not saying so, and no-one explains to you the system or how long it all takes.

I applied for an Assessment towards a Statement in the January. As previously mentioned, as I was panicking I also applied for a mainstream placement at the same school that also has the ER for ASDs. As it turns out that was my smart move because I correctly suspected that there would not be any ER places left. This is a loophole that my LEA has now closed ie. if you are in the process of getting a Statement you cannot also apply for a mainstream place at the same school.

So get in touch with your local LEA and find out what kinds of school are in your area. There might be a mixed mainstream SEN school in your area. Or there might be mainstream schools that have a higher proportion of children with ASDs and therefore they have more experience. Go and visit these schools including the SEN ones. Speak with the SENCOS and Head Teacher about the pupils they have. You will get a feeling for whether it is right for your child or not.

Don't be hard on yourself. As Grace says, no-one has a crystal ball and alot of the parents on this forum are in a similar position. Education is the main problem that parents have with their children. You don't have to have a diagnosis to get a Statement. If you do consider any private reports remember to get someone who is independent (ie. does not work for the LEA or the NHS) because if they do they tend to make recommendations within what their department provides. An independent expert will advise on the level of support a child needs and that leaves the LEA to top up any extra funding the child would require to meet those needs. Also remember that it is advisable to use a professional who has experience of tribunal work. They know the procedures and what information the Panel are looking for.

If you are refused a Statement you can appeal against that. Make sure you have a copy of the Code of Practice for the SEN process.

Remember that 'education' is not just about maths and english. It is about social communication and interaction skills. It is about life skills. It is about preparing a child for adulthood. That is the legal interpretation of 'education' as posted on the IPSEA website. So a Statement should incorporate 'all' areas of difficulty.

[dana]

Thank you Grace and Sally. <'> I am acctually planning to visit the schools in our town in September. There are 2 special schools (one of them I 've seen and it would be perfect for my son but difficult to get) and there is one mainstreem very close where we live. SENCO told me that it has a very good SEN team but I still have to see it. Even so, without additional help I don't see how he will cope. He lives in his fantasy world most of the time, he is very naive an literal, his talk often doesn't make sence(he told ED that "the God sent him on a mission to kill all the spiders and He will give him Ladybirds instead" etc.etc.). To be honnest, I was not aware of excess of his condition because he does not talk like this at home as much.

I don't know, I will see what the future will bring. I just hope that we are not too late he to get proper help and dx.

 

Danaxxx

[Sally44]

Thank you Grace and Sally. <'> I am acctually planning to visit the schools in our town in September. There are 2 special schools (one of them I 've seen and it would be perfect for my son but difficult to get) and there is one mainstreem very close where we live. SENCO told me that it has a very good SEN team but I still have to see it. Even so, without additional help I don't see how he will cope. He lives in his fantasy world most of the time, he is very naive an literal, his talk often doesn't make sence(he told ED that "the God sent him on a mission to kill all the spiders and He will give him Ladybirds instead" etc.etc.). To be honnest, I was not aware of excess of his condition because he does not talk like this at home as much.

I don't know, I will see what the future will bring. I just hope that we are not too late he to get proper help and dx.

 

Danaxxx

 

Have you looked at Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder? If his speech is as you say there is a good chance that he has a speech disorder. I would send a letter to the SALT and ask her this. His speech is not making sense. That isn't a delay it is some difficulty associated with understanding language and how to use it appropriately. If a child has a speech disorder they cannot be discharged from SALT (that is in our LEA, I don't know if that is throughout the UK). As part of a diagnosis of an ASD they have to have difficulties with language. Many times SALT labels this a 'delay'. Don't accept that if you don't think that is right. A delay means there is every expectation that the child will catch up. With a disorder it is for life. Regarding his speech do you think he uses pieces of TV/DVD to put together his speech at all? Or does he use language to take his turn in conversation or to initiate conversation but it is not relevant - as the example you gave. I would really try to pin down the SALT about this because having an understanding of language is critical for learning as well as social interaction and communication and play skills. Imagine if you were suddenly moved to another country without understanding the language. Think how that would impact on your ability to learn in the classroom and interact with the other pupils and the teachers. You might try to communicate using what language you knew, which might be what your son is trying to do - but which is just coming across as nonsense. That might demonstrate an interest in your son to communicate, but he just doesn't have the language or social skills to do it. If that is the case then SALT need to be putting alot of input into these skills.

 

[dana]

I am not sure about Semantic Pragmatic Disorder but there are some features which indicate that my son could have it.

In September he is going to see NHS SALT. I will take with me the private report and see what she will say.

Anyway, thanks for your reply.

 

Danaxxx

[rgo]

Hi there

I am an independent autism adviser working with families and schools across the UK.

 

I know that most Paeds and other professionals no longer recognise semantic pragmatic disorder as being distinct from autism- although many of the children i work with would fit that profile- they are most usually diagnosed with ASD now.

Fingers crossed for you

Ruth

 

Sorry Ruth, we don't allow advertising on the forum (see guidelines and rules no 9) and so I've edited the part of your post giving your direct contact details and inviting the opening poster to contact you. If people wish to find out more about the services you offer, they are of course, free to contact you via pm.

 

Kathryn

 

on behalf of moderating team.

Edited August 17, 2009 by Kathryn

[Sally44]

My understanding is that Semantic Pragmatic Speech Disorder is seen as part of the spectrum. And I think a diagnosis of an ASD is better than SPSD. However it is the 'speech disorder' aspect of it that needs highlighting and discussing with your SALT because many SALT departments talk about language 'delays' with an ASD when they are clearly not that at all (ie. echolalia, pronoun reversal, literal interpretation of language, problems with giving narrative information and comprehension of verbal information given - ie. understanding stories and prediciting outcomes) and the only reason to use 'delay' rather than 'disorder' as a diagnosis is that you cannot discharge someone from SALT if they have a disorder because a disorder is for life. Many parents will testify to the fact that their child has been discharged from SALT when their 'expressive' language was deemed age appropriate ie. they had 'caught up'. However there is more to language/ interation/social communication and play skills than just 'age appropriate expressive language'. A SALT needs to fully assess all aspects of language and social interaction and the language and comprehension skills needed to be successful in communication and social interaction and play. For example my son's language is age appropriate, but maybe totally irrelevant to what is being discussed in class or the game that is being played by peers etc.

If I had a child with an ASD and they were being discharged from SALT I would probably be asking them whether they think they are no longer on the spectrum because to have a diagnosis of an ASD you have to have language and social communication problems which are lifelong. I therefore don't see how they can be discharged from SALT. Of course every individual case is different and some parents/children maybe at such a stage that they are independent. But I just wanted to put my opinion out there because it is a common problem parents come across ie. no input from SALT because their child can talk.

[dana]

I totaly agree that it is very important that SALT asseses not only receptive and expressive language skills but olso communication and social skills. That is why, firstly, I found the SALT who specificaly works with children (ASD) on developing communication and social skills and secondly asked her to asses my son these skills as well as his receptive and expresive language skills.

She has already started working with him and gave us some interesting material and tasks which I am going to pass to his school learning mentor who is working with him. Unfortunately, this was a private SALT (which I cannot afford any more) and I will have to pass these reports to the NHS SALT in September when we have the first appointment. I just hope that she will take on board the recomendations from the report which says that my son needs continuus input of SALT.

Thanks, Sally, your posts are really helpful.

 

Danaxxx

[Sally44]

Just don't be afraid to question and ask them to explain their decisions. There are many things that I have managed to obtain simply by asking for them ie. after 3 years of my son being under the SALT department no-one had got round to assessing his social interaction or play skills. Although I was generally happy with SALT at the time, I did complain about that because that is a major part of a diagnosis of an ASD. I also asked for a SALT that had experience of ASDs and language disorders associated with them and was allocated one (for the duration of the run up to the tribunal and afterwards for about 6 months). This also proved very useful.