kill it, cook it, eat it...

[baddad]

Anyone else been watching this? I've become much more of a 'careful' shopper regarding meat over the past ten years or so, but last nights prog on piggy meat convinced me that I'm going to have to be even more cautious regarding pork...

 

As a side issue to animal welfare, though, has anybody else noticed a hint of 'tension' (nudge nudge, wink wink) between Phoebe the carnivore and James the vegan? MUCH more interesting than those c-list celebrity exchanges you see on GMOOH or BB!

 

 

[mossgrove]

I've been Veggie for 20 years now and couldn't bring myself to watch it!

 

Simon

[Kathryn]

No, I'm not watching this. I fear the effect on my eating habits.

 

Since the programmes about intensively farmed chicken (Hugh Fearnley Wittingstall was it?) I've not bought cheap bog standard chicken and have virtually stopped eating it as I can't afford the good stuff very often.

 

K x

[justine1]

I could never make that decision not to eat meat After all our teeth our designed to chew,rip,tear through meat.I did watch that HUgh whats his face programme on C4 on the chickens and while I thought it was cruel,I can only afford cheap chicken and can't live without chicken.I dont eat much red meat,usually twice a week (quick fry steaks and mince in spag bol),I grew up not eating much red meat as my mum and brother have colon problems and meat caused them to double up in pain.

I have to eat it cause I suffer from anemia,I know certain veg (esp. spinach which I love) also contains iron but most GP recommend meat.I eat chicken twice a week (stew and roast) and fish once a week,the other three nights I make food with no meat like veg pasta bake and veg only stir fry(sometimes few prawns!)

 

I know there are usually all these food scares,mad cow,foot and mouth etc.but life is one BIG risk.I know last year on the news they mentioned apples may cause cancer and other fruit and veg have been connected to alzhemeirs.I think its all a load of nonsense,there are people in developing countries who live till the age of 100 + yrs and they dont sit worrying about what they eat.

 

Sorry to offend anyone but like I say those animals are meant to be eaten and I am ready to eat them

[Martin Howe]

Sorry to offend anyone but like I say those animals are meant to be eaten and I am ready to eat them

Yes, couldn't agree more. Inhumane farming of animals is an abomination so fortunately more and more stuff is free range; however, many people think eating meat at all is wrong... yet one cannot "murder" a non-sentient being. Nor can one "enslave" them, so Frakes can hang his head in shame for not refusing on principle to speak that line

 

[baddad]

I could never make that decision not to eat meat After all our teeth our designed to chew,rip,tear through meat.

 

Blimey, gal - don't they sell celery round your way!

As I said in my OP - I've no objection to eating meat at all (love it in fact), but I do think ethical farming and better animal welfare should be a big part of the process and the more i learn the more careful i am about the choices i make. It would be great if food labelling legislation was enforced to help me with that and make those choices easier.

Fortunately, my own background introduced me to the 'cheaper cuts' early on, so they've always featured in my diet along with some of the better cuts. I got used to buying the better cuts, but haven't found 'downsizing' so I can spend the same money on better farmed but less fancy cuts problematic. (Liver and Bacon, if I'm not mistaken... yum yum! )

Don't get me wrong, i'm not claiming any moral high ground and i'm not judging anyone who makes different choices to me (well, not too much!) - I still see my love of meat and my love of animals as something of an oxymoron, so I couldn't possibly defend my carnivorism (is that a word?)!

On the wider issue, though, I do think veggie/vegans have got it wrong. not in their food choices, as it were, but in the politics. One of the (vegan) girls on the prog made the point very effectively - it's not 'black and white'. If more time was spent on making meat eaters more considerate in their choices than trying to convert them to a choice they're unlikely ever to make then animal welfare lobbying would take a huge step forward. I think progs like this (and Hugh's chicken run) can help with that...

 

ANYHOO - what about Phoebe and James?

 

L&P

 

BD Orff to the market to buy some luvverly meat... or maybe one of me traps'll 'ave an 'edgeog in it!

 

[Jannih]

I watched it for the first time, the other night, when chicken was on the menu.

 

Re: the sexual tension between the two characters. I think I missed it. I don't seem to notice things like that. Not sure if it's an ASD thing !

 

I am an omnivore and agree that we are physiologically designed to eat meat. let's get real; most animals are predators and will eat whatever is below them on the food chain. We are animals at the top of the food chain, albeit with a bit more intelligence, allegedly ! LOL.

 

This programme is good because, I am of the belief that if you eat an animal you should be willing to kill it. It is so easy to go to the supermarket and find a clean piece of cling film, wrapped meat and buy it, emotionally cutting ourselves of from the fact, that a few weeks ago it was little lamb frolicking in the field with its mum.

 

As for Koreans eating dogs and the Chinese eating cats. I have no problem with that either. They do not treat them as pets and so they do not have an emotional link with them. I am sure that when an Asian person sees us eating beef (the sacred cow) they are probably horrified at the thought.

 

I was not sure about the African woman's attitude to killing the chicken and I was also glad they did not chose her to kill it. I thought she wanted to kill it for some sort of pleasure and the fact that she could not wait to go back to Nigeria to do it, I found quite shocking.

 

The important thing is that these animals are treated humanely. Like a lot of people I buy the cheap chicken and maybe I will have to rethink on my buying habits. I have started eating organic eggs, so that's a start !

 

 

[baddad]

I am sure that when an Asian person sees us eating beef (the sacred cow) they are probably horrified at the thought.

 

Interesting juxtaposition there that the 'sacred cow' is usually a diseased, pain-riddled, half-starved, pitiful creature that would be put out of it's misery if discovered in a barn over here (with the farmer successfully prosecuted for neglect and abuse)... The theory is that, as a sacred animal it will be looked after by 'God', but sadly he tends mostly to be far less caring about animal rights than yer worst UK Farmer Palmer!

 

Yes, agree about the girl's odd take on dispatching chickens. Don't you think the 'young mum' (Kerri, was it?) had an absolutely brilliant attitude though?

 

L&P

 

BD

[justine1]

I just wondered how do you REALLY KNOW its free range or organic????

I heard on the news last year a man was sued cause he claimed his chics were free range but he brought them in most of the day,I believe they need to be out certain amount of hours for this claim to be valid!

[Jannih]

I just wondered how do you REALLY KNOW its free range or organic????

I heard on the news last year a man was sued cause he claimed his chics were free range but he brought them in most of the day,I believe they need to be out certain amount of hours for this claim to be valid!

 

 

I expect that if Tesco advertise them as organic, then they probably are. Tesco have too much to lose in way of customers, reputation etc if they were found to be involved in blatant, dishonest advertising. Not that they have the most brilliant reputation in the first place.

 

 

[Tally]

There will always be dishonest people in the world, but in buying organic and free range meat products, you let suppliers know there is a demand for it to be available and monitored. Buying these products creates a financial incentive for suppliers to produce ethically produced meat products, and so you do increase welfare for animals generally, even if you are occasionally duped.

[baddad]

I expect that if Tesco advertise them as organic, then they probably are. Tesco have too much to lose in way of customers, reputation etc if they were found to be involved in blatant, dishonest advertising. Not that they have the most brilliant reputation in the first place.

 

There is a huge amount of misleading advertising etc, and lots of labels that you have to read really carefully, but the out and out cheatin' tends to be more fruit and veg related, because livestock has so many other 'interested parties' keepimg an eye on things, like the RSPCA etc.

It's a bit of a catch 22, though, 'cos while I'd like to bypass the supermarket entirely in favour of a local farmer or farmer's market or even a butcher you then have to take it 'on trust' from an individual where the monitoring may be even less rigid, and human nature being what it is......

We did toy with the idea of getting an 'Egloo' and going self-sufficient for chooks and eggs, but sort of went off the idea when we realised our garden's regularly visited by foxes and a wide variety of cats (including our own, but in all honesty she's such a wuss the chickens would probably bother her more than she would them!).

All you can really do is 'dib dib dib' and 'dob dob dob', I suppose, and the fact that we do helps us feel better about the whole food-chain thing which our conscience tells us is a 'bit iffy' but our stomachs tell us is a necessary evil!

I really, really do wish, though, that there was an alternative high st option to KFC - that stuff is majorly (Colonelly?) delicious but morally evil, and Lord do i miss it! (not too often though - as bad on so many levels healthy choice wise that even if the chooks were individually hand reared in their own penthouse apartments you'd still have to think twice!)

 

L&P

 

BD

[justine1]

If its ethics you talking about when it comes to food what about the kids who pick cocoa beans?I watched a documentry and there was a girl(11) in west africa who picks cocoa beans and she has never tasted chocolate,the brit journalist took her some at the end of the programme.It just seemed strange that she was picking this everyday since she could walk and didnt even know what the end product was

 

I think lots of people seem to make more noise about animal welfare and not enough about labourers in other countries who are poorly treated.I know places like "fair trade" are trying to help such people but I fear such organisations seem to have their own interests at heart not those of the people the stick on their packaging.

 

Sorry Baddad I know this is leading away from your topic on the show itself, I apologise for that.

[mossgrove]

Don't buy an Eglu, they are way to expensive, buy a bog standard chicken coop instead!

 

We have been keeping chickens since the spring but a standard coop from eBay or similar is all you need unless you are really pushed for space. Theres no nicer breakfast than eggs that were laid that morning!

 

Foxes haven't been an issue so far but you do need to be sure that you lock them away at night.

 

As far as ethics go it is a bit different for me as I haven't eaten meat for so long that meat doesn't appeal to me anyway and veggie food is much easier to find than it was 20 years ago.

 

I would certainly never be able to eat our chickens as they are pets too. But if I decided to eat meat again I would find it easier to keep male chickens in humane conditions and then eat them (even if I would have to be a complete wuss and get someone to do the necessary for me) than I would to buy battery farmed chicken from a supermarket. Even infamous carnivores like Hugh Fearnley-whatshisname find battery chicken keeping abhorrent.

 

 

Simon

 

 

 

 

[baddad]

If its ethics you talking about when it comes to food what about the kids who pick cocoa beans?I watched a documentry and there was a girl(11) in west africa who picks cocoa beans and she has never tasted chocolate,the brit journalist took her some at the end of the programme.It just seemed strange that she was picking this everyday since she could walk and didnt even know what the end product was

 

I think lots of people seem to make more noise about animal welfare and not enough about labourers in other countries who are poorly treated.I know places like "fair trade" are trying to help such people but I fear such organisations seem to have their own interests at heart not those of the people the stick on their packaging.

 

Sorry Baddad I know this is leading away from your topic on the show itself, I apologise for that.

 

No worries.

 

We always buy fair trade on stuff that you can... If you buy the 'big brand' fair trade it's hugely expensive, but own brand FT labels seem a good trade off.

I think with any sort of 'ethical' purchasing you can do within your given budget has got to be worth the effort, because the more that do the more the message is sent that people want it.

If you think of something like 'Live aid' or whatever, it's easy to say 'oh, well only a tiny percentage actually does any good' and use that as a justification for giving nothing. But if you look at it another way, if only ten pee in the pound gets through that's also a valid reason for giving ten times as much!

I agree that animal welfare can seem to detract from relief of human suffering, and do feel guilty sometimes that Ben's choice to 'sponsor a cat' rather than a well or something like that seems a very negative trade off - but it's his money and his choice, and he does make donations to other charities sporadically too.

For anyone wondering, no we're not well off or anything even approaching it at all! We're 'okay', though, so putting coppers in a collection tin as we leave the supermarket or spending a few pence (or pounds some weeks) on making more informed choices with the shopping aint gonna hurt us.

 

A Funny 'aside' on this: When they have red nose day etc Ireland consistently raises more money per head than the UK, yet the Irish economy is much worse than ours. I suppose it's a cultural thing, and the irish are just more inclined to go without a pint of Guinness for the sake of the 'poor wee kiddies on the telly' than we are to drink a slightly cheaper bottle of Pinot Grigio while we're watching it!

 

L&P

 

BD

 

PS: Mossgrove - Just seen your post... Good that you always lock your foxes away at night!

We don't have a tiny garden, but the Eglu and one or two birds would definitely be it for us. I know a normal coop would be cheaper and not much harder to maintain, but Eglu's are just soo cool! I usually hate that sort of thing (no way would I ever 'Mac' or 'I pod' etc), but for some reason the eglu really does float my boat. we're not really rural either, but do live on the tail end of a housing estate right on the edge of a farm and country estate. The foxes are regular visitors, and just a couple of weeks ago were driving me nuts every night by acting out their mating rituals on the grass verge just below my bedroom window After several nights of lobbing wellies and clapping my hands at them they've been a little less obvious about it, but come spring they'll be back with all the cubs given it 'yip yip yip' as well!

Edited January 10, 2010 by baddad