4yr old behaviours

[baranigirl]

I know I have posted before about DD3 and her problems, I am so confused by everything now!

 

She is the 3rd daughter I have, so I have been here before twice, but she is so very different to my older 2 and also her younger brother!

 

Nursery keep talking to me about her 'lack of understanding' regarding letter and number recognition. Yet at home she is doing fine (as fine as a 4yr old imo) why would she behave so differently at nursery? She has been there 2 years and is happy to attend and has not had any staff changes for a long time.

 

Today I spoke to her keyworker, who is stills saying she is shy (DD3 is NOT shy, she rules the roost here!) However after talking for a while I discovered (as I thought) she does not play WITH the other children, but alongside them, she does not communicate well either. Yet at home and in one on one situations (even with people she doesn't know) she will communicate happily and play with them. Her social skills are the same at toddler group, if it is a quiet session she will either play alone, or seek out the one 'friend' she will play with, she asks to go home if it starts to fill up with people.

 

Her keyworker has said not to worry about the letter and number recognition as if she has difficulties they will be addressed at school and she is only bringing them up as DD3 is 'apparently' saying she has absolutely no awareness of any letters or numbers, yet she can write her name (not brilliantly but legibly). At home she is obbssessed by routine and what is happening every day it is the first question she asks each morning, what is happening today and needs to know the order i.e. if we go shopping she needs to be told how many shops we are visiting and when we will be leaving (as in after which shop) if I decide to pop in another shop as we are passing it really stresses her.

 

Her role play is phenomenal, she loves bringing me food and things to eat and drink and has even done a little of this at nursery too, yet she is still doing this in isolation to the other children.

 

She also loves jigsaws and has some 100 piece ones here she can complete, yet nursery says she struggles with simple ones and needs assistance with them (at home she does need help with a few of the more difficult puzzles she has)

 

Home results in paddy's if she is told no and given a reasonable reason for the no (I rarely just say no as no) She is obssessed by food and constantly 'hungry' and eats like a horse, yet is super skinny. At nursery she eats well, but is reluctant to ask for seconds and they only ever saw a paddy a few weeks ago as someone else took her bag home by mistake as they have the same one, she went on about this for the entire week until she got it back and even now weeks later she will still talk about someone taking her bag!

 

Am I right to be concerned? Or am I just worrying about nothing?

Edited May 7, 2010 by baranigirl

[justine1]

Hi

I agree that you should seek advice now.I was really reluctant to seek help for Dan(4) because of Sams AS dx I thought they may thinK I am paranoid or something.

However I thought it is better to do it now than to wait and see then he ends up falling behind academically and/or socially.I now have an appt at CAMHS coming up and have also been referred to the same paed who saw Sam.I am meeting with his teacher today or monday to discuss this and get all her concerns in writing.

 

Dan also behaves different in different environments,at his dads he eats well,plays well does as he is told but he doesnt do this with me and at school I think he is the same.He doesnt appear to talk much there.He does make eye contact though and he doesnt get as confused as Sam does but he ticks most boxes for ASD.I know he has sensory problems and speech so what we need to discover is whether these are separate problems or part of something bigger.The blood test all show he has no medical reason not to eat,though he is anemic due to not eating.

 

I really believe it is worthwhile,if it turns out there is nothing the worst that will happen is you feel a little embarrased.However if you dont do anything the long term consequences will be far worse than that.

[baranigirl]

thanks Justine, I am so worried, yet 'friends' who I meet once a year tell me they don't think she has any social problems, she has got very good at disguising how she plays around other children.

 

Other than toddler group we do not meet any big groups of people and the above mentioned friends on camping trips, I am concerned about the big class of 30 children she will be in, I am hoping she will have the same reception teacher as DD2 had as I do not know the other one who is newer to the school.

 

Eye contact is a funny one for DD3, she can do it, but usually she has to be asked to look at someone, she has toileting issues still, she wears a nappy to bed and will pass a BM in it most nights even though she tells me she should do it in the toilet, yet she can use the toilet in the day easily for BM etc UNLESS she is stressed (wets herself) excited (soils herself) which she did before attending 2 of her friends parties in February who both live a car drive away, yet the toileting issue was on the short drive from the house to the venue and she had used the toilet before leaving!

 

My son has food texture problems, but so do I and I have put that down to him being like me as he is the most sociable thing ever, but very shy. He is getting much better with foods now anyways so I am not worried about him.

 

I have asked a colleague of mine to give her one on one swimming lessons as I know she would struggle in a group lesson (noisy pool and some instructors are quite poor), plus she is terrified of the water, which we are sorting out at the moment

 

Who do I speak to? My GP? or my HV?

 

When I had my son I was being seen by HV for PND (I had it after all my births) and one of the HV said DD3 who was around 3 at the time had a funny walk and was I worried about it, which I wasn't as she was born with talipes, whether that is also significant I have no idea and it's not been mentioned ever since, but I am a little put off by the HV's round here

[justine1]

Hi again

From my experience I would say dont bother with the HV,my HV said she was going to arrange X,Y,Z for Dan and Eli,he has a large head which he was seen for alot after birth but not since as I was still worried wanted some reassurance,she only got back to me three weeks later in that time Dan had fainted so I took him to the GP and while I was there was told Eli is fine.

 

So I would say go to the GP,this is what I have done twice.With Sam I assumed the school would get the referral after all thats where he was most challenging,but it was left to me.I would suggest making notes about everything even if you dont use them you may remember things more having written it down,and if you lose your train of thought you got them at hand.

 

I just came back from the school,Dan is quiet,has good vocab,plays alongside kids and follows instructions so basically according to the teacher he is fine(though she never said this)she did say that when he draws/paints he has to go on and on about what he is doing,she said this is not usual and the eating thing is a problem.However while I was there she was able to observe his "other side" and she said "he never behaves like that and she has said it seems to be an issue of getting my attention and clearly jealous of his little brother.Sam is exactly like this behaves wonderfully at home but a nightmare at school,Dan is the opposite but in the same capacity(if that makes sense)

 

I would always say a mum knows best and you need to get help ASAP before she starts full time school then you end up waiting forever for an assesment.The GP you see may say wait a bit or suggest something else,so you may not even go for the assesment but its best to get the concerns out there.I would also defo mention about your husband,I believe Dan got the referral cause of Sams dx,even though your hubby doesnt have one it does raise some questions.

[baddad]

I am so worried, yet 'friends' who I meet once a year tell me they don't think she has any social problems, she has got very good at disguising how she plays around other children.

 

That shows an incredible level of self awareness, empathy, theory of mind etc for a four year old. To actually be aware enough to adjust and disguise how she plays around others is not sometihing typical NT kids are able to do, and certainly goes against every aspect of the autistic diagnostic criteria. Not met her, of course, but on the basis of that alone I'd be more inclined to listen to your friends. Just out of interest, why have you put 'friends' in inverted commas?

 

L&P

 

BD

[baranigirl]

That shows an incredible level of self awareness, empathy, theory of mind etc for a four year old. To actually be aware enough to adjust and disguise how she plays around others is not sometihing typical NT kids are able to do, and certainly goes against every aspect of the autistic diagnostic criteria. Not met her, of course, but on the basis of that alone I'd be more inclined to listen to your friends. Just out of interest, why have you put 'friends' in inverted commas?

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Thanks Baddad, I can see your point, maybe she isn't disguising things, I don't know. All I know is nursery have now noticed it and I have also noticed it is different behaviours to her peers, but those who see her less often 'friends' as in annual events do not see her having any differences. Put in ' ' as they are close internet friends rather than physical friends I see week on week. Maybe I am just over anxious, something I am very aware I could be with all else happening round here!

[justine1]

I still think you should express how you feel,I get what Baddad is saying but if the school are suggesting things then I would be concerned.Dan has been at school for four mths nobody has said anything about him,good or bad.I had to insist on seeing the teacher today.

My brother and mother bother have years of experience with children,my mother has owned her own nursery school for nearly 10 years,so both of them suggested something was wrong with Sam and Dan,though in all honesty more so with Sam.I have three friends who live on the estate who also keep asking things like does Dan go to a speech therapist.

 

There is a park in front of our house,he never goes on the equipment,he just touches it.He likes to be there though.I have seen on many occasions him sitting on the ground playing with sand while people are running past him and he doesnt play with anyone.Our neighbours son is the same age and he has said he doesnt want to play with him cause he doesnt do anything he prefers to play with Sam.So to me its clear there is a problem,I maybe wrong but at least by going I can get some help even if I am the cause!!!

[baranigirl]

I will make her an appointment I think Justine, even if it's just to ease my mind, funnily enough December nursery said she was fine, just very shy as she didn't speak at all (selective mute) the area SENCO assessed her then and deemed her fine, I had my doubts then as I say she certainly is not shy, maybe she is just a loner? Now 4 months later they say slightly different, although they are still not keen to suggest there is a problem, more so they are concerned about her literacy and numeracy skills which imo are not an issue at 4 years old. However as dyslexia and dyscalcia (sp) is in the family I will be monitoring that as well.

 

One thing I have forgotten (I can use this thread as a reminder for the GP) her magpieing, she collects things that belong to other people, she has no sense that taking things from my bedroom (like my DS) is wrong, she will say sorry when found playing on it and I use my DS as an example but the next day does the same thing over again, seemingly she does not learn from the previous day's experience? It is all sorts she will take, then deny it was her even when holding the said item!

 

There was something else, but it has slipped my mind whilst typing lol

 

I am happy to accept my parenting could be a part of this too, however the other 3 have all been parented the same and do not behave like this, they all have a variety of things I would have liked to have done better in parenting for sure, but you live and learn!

[baranigirl]

Just to update I have booked an appointment with my GP in a months time as he is on leave until then and I specifically want to speak to my GP I have known for over 30 years about this.

 

I am hoping he will tell me to stop flapping and she is fine

[justine1]

Just to update I have booked an appointment with my GP in a months time as he is on leave until then and I specifically want to speak to my GP I have known for over 30 years about this.

 

I am hoping he will tell me to stop flapping and she is fine

Thats great Keep us informed.