Annoyed about teacher's assumptions

[babnye1]

Got a note in DS's book yesterday (Thurs) saying he'd upset another child with his possessiveness about another (one of his close pals). Teacher had sprung into social story mode with the class and role play about not excluding others. The note then says 'we intend to follow this up with more work'.

 

I asked DS what had happened at play time today (bearing in mind he'd come home for lunch that day so only had 2 x 15 min breaks)and he was completely nonplussed.

 

This morning teacher tells me that the mum of the boy who was DS's partner on he was on the trip with on Wednesday says DS stopped him playing with the other children by dragging him off. His mum came into speak to school as this boy also has a close friend starting next year and she was worried that DS getting 'possessive' about this boy.

 

The teacher, rather than investigate or talk to both boys, or get details of the precise incident, decided to do a social skills 'comic strip' and role play on a 'bad friend' (DS's words) who drags his friends away from others.

 

DS was lost at this as he did't see it having any application to him.

 

I'm really upset by this as this little boy has been a good friend to DS. But the weird thing is DS hardly talks about him any more. DS is obsessed by Match Attax and football and the little lad doesn't like football. So I kind of thought he'd moved on. DS is very happy being friends with anyone who will play what he wants.

 

Also, I was actually on the school trip with them and they were both in my group. DS stuck to me the whole time and he was playing happily with me and the other boys playing football. However, the other boy was on his own playing sandcastles and couldn't be encouraged to join in.

 

DS is overly tactile (proprioception sensory problems) and I could see this was irritating the other boy at times - he lolls and leans. The other boy also said I always end up in DS's group on trips (school did this at the beginning of the year as DS felt more comfortable with this boy than others). I remember thinking he must be getting sick of that.

 

So I was a bit annoyed that the teacher has not investigated this but launched into 'social skills' teaching on the word of another mum. She also said they would have to do some work on the new boy starting as he was a friend of the other little boy and they didn;t want DS to get 'possessive'.

 

At the school fair, the new boy and DS played happily much to the chagrin of this other boy.

 

I don't want everythign pinned on DS without evidence. it's bad enough with those he struggles with, let alone him being blamed for everything else.

 

He's entitled to the same treatment as everyone else isn't he?

[babnye1]

I should add that DS has been for tea at the other lad's house a few times and on one occasion he freaked out a bit as they invited some friends in who lived in the boy's street and DS gets really anxious about new children. He called them 'freaks'. She was a bit taken aback and I had to say that he was undergoing assessment for Asperger's (he has since been diagnosed). I could tell she was really uncomfortable.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

To be honest I think the teacher's intentions were good, even if she didn't go about things a bit more thoroughly (I'm not saying she did everything right, but given we don't know the full facts, it's dificult to say one way or another). It's an assumption that the teacher acted upon the word of another mum - there could have been another underlying reason for he social story ie an/other child/ren in the class with issues. In the first instance I would speak to the HT outlining what you've been told (bearing in mind it's second hand information) and ask for their version. If it matches what you've been told, I think that it's worth pointing out that you appreciate the teacher attempt to move quickly in addressing things, but you feel that she was perhaps a little over-zealous. I've had a lot of issues with my son's school in the way the handle things - my son was obsessed about another child and the school told him he wasn't allowed to play with the other boy. As upsetting as these things are, I always find myself trying to look at things from the other side of the coin and also he's in a mainstream school where there are not specialist ASD staff. I could be on their backs all the time and believe me, there's a real temptation to do so. However, I have to find a way of working with them. I'm not for a second saying you're unjustified in feeling aggrieved, but you need to find out all the facts from the school and then by all means give them your views. It's only by sharing your knowledge about your son and how his ASD affects him with the school and vice versa, that it's best to work together. Ask them if your son can have specific support with social interaction, particularly at unstructured times. Again, when it comes to the other boy's mum, it's sad that other parent's can't always see our position, but if you can understand how you'd feel in the situation you've described (son calling kids 'freaks'), it would make you feel concerned. I think you did the right thing in telling the mum about kiddo's disorder. Perhaps you could even follow it up by giving her a leaflet on AS and/or not just tell her about his difficulties, but the things that he's exceptionally good at. Sadly, I've found that some people just don't want to know and it's incredibly upsetting - truth is, they're not worth bothering with (iddo is number one priority). I do sympathise, but things will get easier especially when kidd gets older - he'll mature and learn and cope with things better and better.

 

Best wishes.

 

Caroline.

[babnye1]

Thanks. I have had from the teacher's mouth that she did this because of what she was told by this child's mum.

 

I also saw this mum at a party today and we spoke. She said her son had said DS was stopping him playing with his friends and calling his friends names.

 

I asked what had he said and who the friends were. She could not say. Not would not (she's not bashful). Could not. She just didn't know. It hadn't stopped her marching into school and reporting this as fact. It had clearly never crossed her mind there might be more to it.

 

I told her she had to ask her son to tell a teacher when something happened so it could be dealt with in real time. She seemed very reluctant to do this - 'he doesn't like to tell on friends'. I pointed out that my son could not put his side of the case unless this happened.

 

I'm so furious especially as she asked me at one point 'how severe is he?'

 

So, yes I take your point about seeing both sides, but I see this child's play too and from parties, group play, trips etc, her son is the solitary figure not mine. I also know that my son obsesses about things not people. He showed no interest in this boy at the party today or on the trip and I am wondering whether that is actually the problem and it is jealousy on his part. My friend is an MDSA and she said too she has seen absolutely nothing like this and that DS does not generally play with her son

 

The teachers have had no idea about playtimes and friendships this year

 

I told this mum that I was aware of her son's irritation about DS's lolling and leaning and that I would advise DS that people needed personal space and that if her son told him this or told him to back off, then DS would respond.

 

But honestly, I do think this teacher, even with the best of intentions, has acted stupidly on such non-specific allegations and it demonstrates a kind of attitude to DS and his disability really - he's a label.

 

[Sally44]

I think you could have a word with the teacher and the SALT when you see them next. Put your side of what happened, or what your son has told you and what you saw on the trip. It seems that your son's use of words is being thought of as a way of stopping the other child playing with other children ie. calling other children freaks.

And social stories or comic strip cartoons are useful. However when there has been an incident the child has to understand the story relates to something that has happened, otherwise there is nothing gained from doing it.

You could also suggest that a widening of your sons circle of friends would be useful.

And also point out to school that 'misunderstandings' regarding language and social interaction will be a 'two way' thing. Your son may not understand the language or social interaction in the classroom and playground however it is just as likely NT children (and teachers) may not understand your son's lanuage, gestures and facial expression and social interaction. It is a two way street.

It is a difficult balancing line, but you have to try to grit your teeth sometimes and just smooth over it all, because you need to choose your fights.

Many people will not understand about being on the spectrum and what it means. The mother of one of sons former school mates once asked me "don't people with Aspergers turn into stalkers?" Where do you start with that one?!?

Usually those acquaintances that have a negative interpretation of his diagnosis will drift away. So try to build a more positive circle around him. Try to aim for other mums with children that have certain needs and then broaden it out from there. Those mums will have much more understanding and tolerance for your child and you will feel the same for their children.

[babnye1]

Thanks Sally.

 

The thing is this boy is only on the periphery of his circle really and DS is so happily integrated with his other little football buddies, that I don't know where this has come from. It just isn't DS and I'm very sceptical about the not telling the teacher and the lack of detail.

 

I am so used to flagging up stuff for school to support that it's not like I'm a a precious mum who thinks her son can do no wrong. I just really don't believe this one at all and I actually don't think it is fair for DS to undergo any 'social skills work' on it.

 

I think the other boy needs to start telling a teacher so things can be dealt with. If he doesn't, I don't see it is at all appropriate to deal with things retropectively and without asking DS.

 

DS is slight and vulnerable and absolutely lacking in any malice. He may unintentionally annoy people. He has never exhibited any evidence of possesseive behaviour and I have to say he does not know how to lie.

[Sally44]

I think you just need to discuss that with the teacher.

But there will also be times when everyone gets it wrong. I remember being told off for stuff I never did etc.

Just tell the teacher that you don't think it happened as the other child said and that they need to check before they start doing things with your son because the source of the information maybe unreliable. Having said that any 'social' work is good and is a good sign that the school are willing to do stuff.

But do say if something happens and you feel that there is no way your child would have done/said that. But also bear in mind that children can be very different in other environments. But on this occasion you were there as well so surely would have seen the incident?

Have you talked with the SALT about it?

 

Interestingly I had the same situation but with my NT daughter. She had a friend who accused my daughter of stopping her playing with other children. That is not like my daughter. What had happened was that the other girl wanted to play with someone that my daughter does not like because that person has been nasty to my daughter in the past. So my daughter said to the other girl "you can play with them if you want, but I am not joining in". Which I think is a fair comment to make. However the other girl accused my daughter of trying to keep her away from her other friends. This did isolate my daughter for some time as she had spent alot of her time with this other girl. I encouraged my duaghter to join in with other groups of children and she seemed to be okay with it although she definately felt like the outsider trying to push her way into established circles. And since then this other girl has avoided her and her family has not invited my daughter around or anything.

 

I know that this other girl makes up stories and that was something that used to concern me before this happened. And I wonder if she has made something up and told her parents and that is why my daughter is no longer invited around (it used to be every week before). But, TBH, I am not happy with how they have treated my daughter, and therefore I am not even interested in trying to sort it out. I have told my daughter to make new friends, and she moves to secondary school in September and will meet lots of new people.

[babnye1]

Thanks Sally. I have kind of told DS the same thing. Play with other boys. His mum's attitude yesterday was very much fearful of DS's AS and so very ready to assume he was capable of anything.

[zenemu]

What with social roleplaying excercises, none competitive sports days and games and health & safety, it amazes me that teachers find any time to teach kids these days. Don't misunderstand me, I had no support whatsoever at school, and I think some intervention is a good thing, but stories like these and the reasons as to why parents complain over something so minor completely confuse me. I must be missing something. I should probably try to work out what that something is before becoming a parent otherwise I am going to have to give up work to spend all my time in meetings with teachers because my child scored a goal and made someone elses feel bad.

[Sally44]

I agree that some things can appear minor or trivial and you do have to choose what is worth pursuing and what you just leave.

For my NT daughter she found herself alone and isolated during her last year of primary school. By that age all children have their cliche, and she was finding the other children were not letting her join in eventhough she tried. Then she refused to go to school one day, which was totally out of character.

Children often fall out over minor things, but sometimes a quick word with the teacher can save months of deterioration and difficult days in school. These are lessons in life and i've talked them through with my daughter at home as well. In this case I don't think a 5 minute telephone call with her teacher was excessive. It is the first time in 7 years i've had to do that. The teacher responded by giving the whold class a quick talk about it being 'the last months of their last year' and how they should all work at being good friends to eachother as they moved to secondary school. That was all it took.

 

With a child that has SEN you can sometimes find a teacher/school (or any organisation really), that does not have a good grasp of the diagnosis or how it affects that particular child come to the wrong conclusion about alot of things. Other parents are fearful of 'what' an ASD means and 'what' our children might do to their children. Your child can easily become the problem and when anything goes wrong and it involves your child it is always your child's fault because he is the one with the 'problems' anyway. TBH I've held and been to birthday parties where it has been around 50/50 split between SEN and NT children and it is always the NT children that are an absolute nightmare!

 

A couple of years ago I was called into school because my son had scratched another boy. This had happened 'for no reason' the teacher said. When I talked about it with my son he said this other boy had pushed him over and that he thought he was going to do it again and so he scratched him. It also turned out that the initial pushing over had happened on another day, so my son's behaviour did appear totally out of the blue. My son could not interpret speech or body language at all really at that age and was practically non-verbal himself.

 

I felt that school thought my son was violent and aggressive and said to me "how are we to explain to this other mother about the scratch on her childs face." I understood that. And I did not like what my son had done. But at that time he was newly diagnosed with no support in a mainstream school that was not meeting his needs.

 

The TA also used to try to force him to play with other children by making other kids join in his lego building game. And the TA would try to get my son to 'change his mind' about what model he was going to build into one that 'all' the children agreed to make. Although the intentions were good, the understanding of an ASD or my son's level of functioning was way off par. This is something school might attempt now when he is 9.5 years old. At that time he was 5. The TA was surprised and upset when he started screaming and throwing lego at her.

 

Social Stories is a system that works for children with ASD (or comic strip cartoons). But again it has to be done correctly. The child has to understand the connection between the social story and the event otherwise no learning takes place. And in this case the social story may have been inappropriate IF it was based on information given by another child that was not a correct interpretation of the event.

 

If this possessive behaviour was a real problem it should be raised by school/parents with the SALT who would make that a target on his IEP and give suggestions on what school and home can do.

[Karen A]

Hi.

I thought I would offer a different perspective.

I know teachers make mistakes and perhaps this situation could have been handled better.

However Ben is at the end of year 7.

Last week after careful planning an ASD outreach teacher and a SENCO did some work with Ben's class.They talked about AS and explained how Ben is and what he finds difficult.They then asked the class about things that can be difficult and positive about Ben.They are going to develop a circle of friends.At the end of the lesson almost all of the class volunteered to help.

We have spent years with Ben being called any one of many awful names because people did not understand.We love him dearly but he can be very possesive and his elder brother who could not be more supportive finds him a challenge at times.

I am just glad that staff have now taken the time to help.Previously nobody would have suggested a social story or role play.They would avoid the issue until it became a disciplinary matter.

So I think the teacher in your case may be a bit over keen but at least she knows what a Social Story or role play is.

I think that if school try to be supportive with limited knowledge and parents appear critical it can just put them off.It is worth being positive about what they are doing.

Karen.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Karen A

[Sally44]

Hi.

I thought I would offer a different perspective.

I know teachers make mistakes and perhaps this situation could have been handled better.

However Ben is at the end of year 7.

Last week after careful planning an ASD outreach teacher and a SENCO did some work with Ben's class.They talked about AS and explained how Ben is and what he finds difficult.They then asked the class about things that can be difficult and positive about Ben.They are going to develop a circle of friends.At the end of the lesson almost all of the class volunteered to help.

We have spent years with Ben being called any one of many awful names because people did not understand.We love him dearly but he can be very possesive and his elder brother who could not be more supportive finds him a challenge at times.

I am just glad that staff have now taken the time to help.Previously nobody would have suggested a social story or role play.They would avoid the issue until it became a disciplinary matter.

So I think the teacher in your case may be a bit over keen but at least she knows what a Social Story or role play is.

I think that if school try to be supportive with limited knowledge and parents appear critical it can just put them off.It is worth being positive about what they are doing.

Karen.

 

 

That could be something really positive and helpful for Ben, especially as everyone wanted to help. How did Ben feel being talked about and how will they put this circle of friends into practice?

[Karen A]

That could be something really positive and helpful for Ben, especially as everyone wanted to help. How did Ben feel being talked about and how will they put this circle of friends into practice?

 

Sorry have taken some time to pick this up.

Ben felt very positive about the talk.

I think he has spent this year knowing that his peers regarded him as odd to put it mildly.He would far rather people understood than think he is just a nerd for no reason.

He helped select the final circle of friends.They have had one meeting which Ben found very helpful.

Ben is exceptionaly bright.Unfortunately if teachers make a mistake he will tell them in front of the whole class.He is usually right re the information.

His friends explained that sometimes people decide to not raise a minor issue even if they know they are right.Ben would continue to debate with the teacher for the remainder of the lesson on occasions rather than leave a really trivial detail.........

We have attempted to explain this but Ben appeared to listen and take the information in when it came from his peers.

We will see whether he is able to use it in practice though.

Karen.

[av16]

Sorry have taken some time to pick this up.

Ben felt very positive about the talk.

I think he has spent this year knowing that his peers regarded him as odd to put it mildly.He would far rather people understood than think he is just a nerd for no reason.

He helped select the final circle of friends.They have had one meeting which Ben found very helpful.

Ben is exceptionaly bright.Unfortunately if teachers make a mistake he will tell them in front of the whole class.He is usually right re the information.

His friends explained that sometimes people decide to not raise a minor issue even if they know they are right.Ben would continue to debate with the teacher for the remainder of the lesson on occasions rather than leave a really trivial detail.........

We have attempted to explain this but Ben appeared to listen and take the information in when it came from his peers.

We will see whether he is able to use it in practice though.

Karen.

This seems really positive Karen, I'm pleased for Ben and hope it goes a bit more smoothly for him next year. My DS has had a better year 8 than he did year 7, just ignorant parents

 

From a teachers perspective it can be hard to judge sometimes what strategy to use, if you are given something it's tempting to jump in with it without always thinking first if it was quite the right situation. It's good that the 'Social Stories' word is spreading though.

[Karen A]

This seems really positive Karen, I'm pleased for Ben and hope it goes a bit more smoothly for him next year. My DS has had a better year 8 than he did year 7, just ignorant parents

 

From a teachers perspective it can be hard to judge sometimes what strategy to use, if you are given something it's tempting to jump in with it without always thinking first if it was quite the right situation. It's good that the 'Social Stories' word is spreading though.

 

 

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There is more news on my hugely big headed proud mum and dad thread too if you are interested.

Karen.