SON SELF HARMING

[cmuir]

Hi

 

My son (8.5 - has AS) has been at playscheme today (organised and run by our local autistic society). When I go in from work, I could see that he was tired, but clearly kiddo was fighting it. Not the brightest idea in the world, but hubby played a playstation game with him in his room. It ended in the inevitable situation where kiddo go upset presumably because he was tired and he was losing. Using my keys he dug them into hubby and then tried to hit him with a sweeping brush. Hubby got out of the way and sloped off to bed to leave me deal with the fallout as usual (he works early shifts). Kiddo then demanded he go onto the computer and I objected on the grounds of his behaviour towards his father and that he was over-tired. Kiddo started on me - name calling, shouting, growling/snarling, then battering himself in the face/head, biting himself, nipping himself, crying, screaming, etc. This went on for around 40 mins. I'm so tired, I wasn't up to doing anything other than ignoring it. I was able to see him out of the corner of my eye to ensure he wouldn't cause serious harm (ie thankfully this time, there was no knives involved - this isn't entirely unusual). R was hurting himself for a host of reasons ie he wanted my attention and to get me to change my mind about letting him on the computer, he was expressing his frustration and anger in the only way he knew/was able to at that point in time. I also told him that hurting himself didn't change anything - in fact, he's likely to end up with a sore and bruised face. Gradually, he did calm down, but gave me a barrage of abuse stating that I treat him like a baby - his friends get to stay up late ('friends' are NT and get to do what they like!). I told him that he was very very tired and had been upset and cross, shouting, name calling, hurting himself and his dad and he was in no mood to play a game (if he were to lose, all hell would break loose!). Kiddo then went to bed of his own accord after the marathon self-harming session and eventually fell asleep.

 

In honesty, under the circumstances (kiddo was tired - any attention was likely to add fuel to the fire, and there were elements of attention seeking behaviour as well as frustration/anger issues), I doubt I'd have done anything differently. Just curious how you folks handle yours when they start hurting themselves.

 

Caroline.

[Shaunsmum]

Hi the only thing Shaun has ever done (so far) is to bite his finger, I was talking to him about how hitting his brother hurt him and made him upset, his finger was at his mouth but after a few minutes I realised his finger was actually in is mouth and he was biting, the way he was doing it you wouldn't have noticed that he was doing that. I moved his hands down by his side and told him to take a deep breath in and out (the nursery used to do this and found it worked, it hasn't worked for me though). Then I started talking to him about other things. He done this for a couple of weeks and I asked the school if they had noticed him doing it and they said he didn't do it at school (but then they can put him into time out and he does his time with no problems but he kicks and screams when I do it at home). The school said there was another boy in his class who done this regularly and Shaun was copying him. He doesn't do anything else at the moment and I'm hoping he won't. If I had a situation like you had I don't know how I would have handled.

[Sally44]

Hi

 

My son (8.5 - has AS) has been at playscheme today (organised and run by our local autistic society). When I go in from work, I could see that he was tired, but clearly kiddo was fighting it. Not the brightest idea in the world, but hubby played a playstation game with him in his room. It ended in the inevitable situation where kiddo go upset presumably because he was tired and he was losing. Using my keys he dug them into hubby and then tried to hit him with a sweeping brush. Hubby got out of the way and sloped off to bed to leave me deal with the fallout as usual (he works early shifts). Kiddo then demanded he go onto the computer and I objected on the grounds of his behaviour towards his father and that he was over-tired. Kiddo started on me - name calling, shouting, growling/snarling, then battering himself in the face/head, biting himself, nipping himself, crying, screaming, etc. This went on for around 40 mins. I'm so tired, I wasn't up to doing anything other than ignoring it. I was able to see him out of the corner of my eye to ensure he wouldn't cause serious harm (ie thankfully this time, there was no knives involved - this isn't entirely unusual). R was hurting himself for a host of reasons ie he wanted my attention and to get me to change my mind about letting him on the computer, he was expressing his frustration and anger in the only way he knew/was able to at that point in time. I also told him that hurting himself didn't change anything - in fact, he's likely to end up with a sore and bruised face. Gradually, he did calm down, but gave me a barrage of abuse stating that I treat him like a baby - his friends get to stay up late ('friends' are NT and get to do what they like!). I told him that he was very very tired and had been upset and cross, shouting, name calling, hurting himself and his dad and he was in no mood to play a game (if he were to lose, all hell would break loose!). Kiddo then went to bed of his own accord after the marathon self-harming session and eventually fell asleep.

 

In honesty, under the circumstances (kiddo was tired - any attention was likely to add fuel to the fire, and there were elements of attention seeking behaviour as well as frustration/anger issues), I doubt I'd have done anything differently. Just curious how you folks handle yours when they start hurting themselves.

 

Caroline.

 

My son is similar, especially around bedtime and TV and whether he thinks he has watched enough TV/DVDs etc. Just stick to your guns. If you think he needs a visual timetable use one. If you think verbal warnings are enough then use them.

What your son may not be able to do is recognise when he is tired or when it is getting near to bedtime. So you have to provide the structure. If I forget to tell my son it is 8.00pm and time for a drink, brush his teeth and he can watch a last programme, then I am in trouble. Because if I notice the time is 9.30pm he still has to go through that routine.

 

Also I do not leave my son in the same room as me to argue back. If he starts I tell him to go to his room to calm down. Otherwise he just starts screaming and shouting abuse that you then feel you have to respond to and that only cranks up the situation. So send him to his room (not as a punishment), but as a time out strategy and then go up and see him in 15/20 mins etc.

 

My husband also tends to walk away as my son begins to lose it, or he stays and demands that he 'behaves'. Neither really works because my husband cannot stay calm in the situation. But he is brilliant at other times, so I suppose none of us can get it right all the time.

 

My husband is also very competitive, and often when he plays with my son he plays to win. I don't understand it myself, but there you go.

 

My son is 9.5 now. He is getting better at losing. Before he always had to win otherwise he called himself rubbish and a loser and would hit and scratch his face etc. What helped was to talk before the game started to remind him that someone will be the winner and someone the loser and I would asked him "what will you do if you are the loser". Then we would talk about it (just a quick two or three options). That pre-warning and discussion seemed to be enough to help him know how to react to losing. And obviously they do need to learn to lose.

[cmuir]

Thanks for your replies.

 

Sally - in some ways my husband is similar to yours. Certainly having a negative affect on everything. Last night he disappeared off to bed (granted, he works early shift, but leaving me to deal with everything time and time again, is unacceptable).

 

After I posted, part 2 commenced. More of the same. Got to the point where I phoned NHS24 and eventually got to speak to a psychiatrist (adult) who advised my only options were to phone the police for kiddo's own safety if things continued to escalate. Told her that was likely to make him worse. Response was 'well only other option is to phone a child psychiatrist out of their bed'. It's a hard life!

 

R got up this morning and was pretty much shouting the odds as soon as he got up. Couldn't see if he's bruised himself - it's a wonder if he hasn't. Was demanding to play PSP game and then computer game (not something he normally gets to do). Told no because he got himself so upset and frustrated, was shouting, hurting himself, etc and because he was about to get picked up for playscheme. Wasn't as bad as last night, but very, very wearing! Told him if he behaves once home he can play a computer game, however, I've set a timer on the laptop so that he only gets a max of one hour per day and it then shuts down.

 

This morning I've phoned and made a telephone appt with son's GP. I will be requesting an urgent referral back to CAMHS and will be seeking medication. Risperidone was previously prescribed but we couldn't continue because no healthcare professional could get baseline tests ie blood test, ECG, etc (tried on 4 separate occasions).

 

Caroline.

[JsMum]

 

 

why couldnt they get baseline bloods done? have you tried the PALS in your authority.

 

Patient Advisory Liason Service.

 

I would record your concerns on paper and request that they are added to his medical reports.

 

We went to the GP for concerns over Js aggression/challenging behaviour but she said to call the police, it is now clear if J reacts in a violent way to himself or others the police will be called, it isnt a solution but at the end of the day it is what is required to ensure their and others safety.

 

I have in the mean time contact the police to make them aware of the Emergency GP appointment and what action we may have to take, they have placed on their system Js DX and Needs and know that if I attempt to ring them but the phone goes dead there is a crisis, and someone will be dispatched to our address, It isnt a very good option and wished there was more that we could do, but bottom line if they are not safe then they need urgent attention from the right proffessional, and once the police have arrived they will alert childrens services and on call physicatrist and assess from there what is best for the child.

 

Youngminds can also give you some more advise and information on children with Mental Health and challenging behaviour.

 

are you recieving any additional support at home, such as a care service, a carer coming in to assist you with his challenging behaviour, I would also maybe look into something such as a safespace.

 

http://www.safespaces.co.uk/

 

The position your placed in where you have to call the police isnt ideal but its all we have sometimes if they are a risk, I dont want to have to ever do it, but Ive made it clear to J I will if he is a danger to himself or others.

 

JsMumx

 

[cmuir]

Hi

 

Thanks JSMum.

 

No one could get baseline tests because R wouldn't allow it - he was abusive to the doctors, attempted to kick the door down, cried, and ran out of the place on 4 occasions. Beforehand, I prepared him with a social story, once there, turned it into a game by asking Robert to guess my weight, height, etc. I even had a blood test done to show him that I wasn't in pain, etc.

 

YoungMinds have been great and on two occasions, I've spoken with a Psychologist who actually works with Lorna Wing. Sadly, as we're in Edinburgh, the structure/services can be quite different.

 

SS intitially offered a specialist community nurse to help with the challenging behaviour, but changed their minds because R's IQ is above 70. Our local disability team no longer recognise children on the spectrum as being disabled and so are handled by general team.

 

I've had a look at the safespace website and they look fantastic. I've found that by holding R tightly, and effectively turning his bedroom into a sensory room can help, but I really think he needs professional help and medication.

 

Just spoken with GP who will contact CAMHS and ask for emergency referral. He's actually quite understanding (his son used to attend same nursery as R and I think it's all quite close to home for him ie could just as easily be his son with these issues).

 

I take on board what you're saying about the police and if I have to phone them I will.

 

Thanks again.

 

Caroline.

[JsMum]

Hi

 

Thanks JSMum.

 

No one could get baseline tests because R wouldn't allow it - he was abusive to the doctors, attempted to kick the door down, cried, and ran out of the place on 4 occasions. Beforehand, I prepared him with a social story, once there, turned it into a game by asking Robert to guess my weight, height, etc. I even had a blood test done to show him that I wasn't in pain, etc.

 

YoungMinds have been great and on two occasions, I've spoken with a Psychologist who actually works with Lorna Wing. Sadly, as we're in Edinburgh, the structure/services can be quite different.

 

SS intitially offered a specialist community nurse to help with the challenging behaviour, but changed their minds because R's IQ is above 70. Our local disability team no longer recognise children on the spectrum as being disabled and so are handled by general team.

 

I've had a look at the safespace website and they look fantastic. I've found that by holding R tightly, and effectively turning his bedroom into a sensory room can help, but I really think he needs professional help and medication.

 

Just spoken with GP who will contact CAMHS and ask for emergency referral. He's actually quite understanding (his son used to attend same nursery as R and I think it's all quite close to home for him ie could just as easily be his son with these issues).

 

I take on board what you're saying about the police and if I have to phone them I will.

 

Thanks again.

 

Caroline.

 

 

I would challenge the over 70 IQ as your son is disabled, they shouldnt be using the IQ as a criteria, your son NEEDS provisions and services, so I would request they put it in writing, and then go throw the complaints appeal, I really do advise you ring NAS to get specific laws in Scotland but they shouldnt be refusing him services just based on his IQ.

 

 

If R is that aviodant on his bloods then it obvously does need a specialist hospital that can do the bloods, ONE that are use to challenging behaviour, im sure there is techneques they can use to take blood, how many children are the same when it comes to bloods, surely they can find a way to do the bloods?

 

It does sound even when medication/safe room are in place you bottom line need more support at home so I would again get intouch with NAS to find out your sons Rights to support.

 

CONTACT A Family also information on community care provisions, you should at least be entitled to short breaks and recreation/social activities, read my social care and solisitor post.

 

I know its not easy about the police, believe me, its not the option I like to opt to either.

 

JsMumx

 

 

[bb1976]

Hi

 

My son (8.5 - has AS) has been at playscheme today (organised and run by our local autistic society). When I go in from work, I could see that he was tired, but clearly kiddo was fighting it. Not the brightest idea in the world, but hubby played a playstation game with him in his room. It ended in the inevitable situation where kiddo go upset presumably because he was tired and he was losing. Using my keys he dug them into hubby and then tried to hit him with a sweeping brush. Hubby got out of the way and sloped off to bed to leave me deal with the fallout as usual (he works early shifts). Kiddo then demanded he go onto the computer and I objected on the grounds of his behaviour towards his father and that he was over-tired. Kiddo started on me - name calling, shouting, growling/snarling, then battering himself in the face/head, biting himself, nipping himself, crying, screaming, etc. This went on for around 40 mins. I'm so tired, I wasn't up to doing anything other than ignoring it. I was able to see him out of the corner of my eye to ensure he wouldn't cause serious harm (ie thankfully this time, there was no knives involved - this isn't entirely unusual). R was hurting himself for a host of reasons ie he wanted my attention and to get me to change my mind about letting him on the computer, he was expressing his frustration and anger in the only way he knew/was able to at that point in time. I also told him that hurting himself didn't change anything - in fact, he's likely to end up with a sore and bruised face. Gradually, he did calm down, but gave me a barrage of abuse stating that I treat him like a baby - his friends get to stay up late ('friends' are NT and get to do what they like!). I told him that he was very very tired and had been upset and cross, shouting, name calling, hurting himself and his dad and he was in no mood to play a game (if he were to lose, all hell would break loose!). Kiddo then went to bed of his own accord after the marathon self-harming session and eventually fell asleep.

 

In honesty, under the circumstances (kiddo was tired - any attention was likely to add fuel to the fire, and there were elements of attention seeking behaviour as well as frustration/anger issues), I doubt I'd have done anything differently. Just curious how you folks handle yours when they start hurting themselves.

 

Caroline.

Mine is now 11 his first suicide attempt was at 8 i have to talk him down from the rage quite often repeating myself. he has used knives so i removed them, then a drill, then a patatoe peeler then a screw driver have had to have a total over haul of my home to make it safe so he now punches himself in the face, strangles himself or head butts walls. when he does these i keep an ear open and a sneaky eye but when they reach this point there is no talking you have to let them calm down first. what ur doing is what we all have to do. my son has no diagnosis as camhs refuse to give him one. hope that helps x

[bb1976]

<!--quoteo(post=292228:date=Jul 20 2010, 04:32 PM:name=cmuir)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cmuir @ Jul 20 2010, 04:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=292228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi

 

Thanks JSMum.

 

No one could get baseline tests because R wouldn't allow it - he was abusive to the doctors, attempted to kick the door down, cried, and ran out of the place on 4 occasions. Beforehand, I prepared him with a social story, once there, turned it into a game by asking Robert to guess my weight, height, etc. I even had a blood test done to show him that I wasn't in pain, etc.

 

YoungMinds have been great and on two occasions, I've spoken with a Psychologist who actually works with Lorna Wing. Sadly, as we're in Edinburgh, the structure/services can be quite different.

 

SS intitially offered a specialist community nurse to help with the challenging behaviour, but changed their minds because R's IQ is above 70. Our local disability team no longer recognise children on the spectrum as being disabled and so are handled by general team.

 

I've had a look at the safespace website and they look fantastic. I've found that by holding R tightly, and effectively turning his bedroom into a sensory room can help, but I really think he needs professional help and medication.

 

Just spoken with GP who will contact CAMHS and ask for emergency referral. He's actually quite understanding (his son used to attend same nursery as R and I think it's all quite close to home for him ie could just as easily be his son with these issues).

 

I take on board what you're saying about the police and if I have to phone them I will.

 

Thanks again.

 

Caroline.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

 

 

I would challenge the over 70 IQ as your son is disabled, they shouldnt be using the IQ as a criteria, your son NEEDS provisions and services, so I would request they put it in writing, and then go throw the complaints appeal, I really do advise you ring NAS to get specific laws in Scotland but they shouldnt be refusing him services just based on his IQ.

 

 

If R is that aviodant on his bloods then it obvously does need a specialist hospital that can do the bloods, ONE that are use to challenging behaviour, im sure there is techneques they can use to take blood, how many children are the same when it comes to bloods, surely they can find a way to do the bloods?

 

It does sound even when medication/safe room are in place you bottom line need more support at home so I would again get intouch with NAS to find out your sons Rights to support.

 

CONTACT A Family also information on community care provisions, you should at least be entitled to short breaks and recreation/social activities, read my social care and solisitor post.

 

I know its not easy about the police, believe me, its not the option I like to opt to either.

 

JsMumx

please becareful when being sent to camhs i am having a horriffic time with them and so are many others on here x