Weird final statement situation

[mousytrap]

We've received our "final statement"[1] now and we're preparing documents for the tribunal. Looks like it's going to be a battle on parts 2, 3 and 4...

 

We find ourselves in a bit of a weird situation, though, so I'm wondering whether it happened to someone else...

 

County sent us a letter a week or so ago saying that they'd read my responses to the proposed statement suggesting mainstream plus 1:1 - dismissed as unworkable by both us and his school.

 

They say they are talking to a couple of EBD schools about my son's case but that, because the statutory "final statement date" is upon us, they would have to name his current school on that for now. Basically that seems to translate to "We didn't get a jiggle on and now time's run out" and/or "Oooops, we thought you'd agree..." My input regarding the proposed statement at this stage has been totally ignored. EBD was always going to be their back up plan but not suitable for our Aspergers son either.

 

So now it seems we're in the weird situation where we're going to tribunal to say mainstream is totally wrong, but they're going to try to change things, by "conflict resolution" or whatever they call it, to EBD. That would mean our whole defence would have to change to anti-EBD, so imagine we'd have to VETO any EBD plan. We'd want to do that anyway, even as a temporary arrangement.

 

I strongly suspect that they'll be in touch very soon in the hope that we don't realise we can continue with the tribunal plans while "chatting about alternatives"... (We haven't heard a dickie bird from them so far, except an email last week when I said "final statement is due out today, what time can I pick it up???" LOL)

 

To complicate matters, he got another exclusion last week and the school said they wanted it to be permanent. We've had a meeting with the PRU that deals with him and they are trying to jack up for him to go to another mainstream school for a while (still part time), under a "managed move" scheme. This would hopefully be from half term. Meanwhile, he's at home trying my patience.

 

I am hoping that doesn't turn out to prejudice our case as a new environment would most likely result in a honeymoon period which doesn't mean the problem is sorted.

 

We have an independent EP hopefully assessing him at half term and an OT, thankfully sorted by CAMHS, seeing him over the summer holidays.

 

At least my OH is now coming round to him going to the school we want on a residential basis, as there are not expected to be any day places.

 

mousy

 

[1] How final is a "final statement" anyway?

[JsMum]

A final statement is what it says FINAL, if you disagree with any of the statement you have to appeal, you have 2 months from the date of the letter you recieved your Final statement, and you and the LEA can still work together right up to the date of the tribunal, in my case it was a week before the court date when they agreed to everything we was wanting.

 

 

I am now back at square one because unknown to me the residential special school was a EBD type school and it hasnt worked for my son and we are now awaiting for a theraputic special school to be accepted by the LEA.

 

 

Part 4 will state the School your son attends, if its the Mainstream school where he has recently been excluded and the school want this to be parmanant the school needs to be saying that they cant meet your sons needs.

 

I would advise you to contact NAS Education help line.

 

Ipsea, for further advise.

 

But a Final statement is FINAL, It is a legal document stipulating his needs and his provisions which HAVE to be Specified, quantified to what support your son recieves.

 

As your son is presantly attending only part time he is not accessing a full time education provision, is there been any additional support at home, and now especially as you have to care for your son in education time as well.

 

Would your Husband be interested enough to go and visit the residential special school, there is no daught in my situation that residential benefits my son due to the routine, structure and predictability, but you do have to prove that there is a 24hr curriculum needed, so collect as much evidence as possible, to prove HE Needs a 24hr curriculum and why which need to be shown that your son will benefit from a residential school.

 

JsMumx

[Grace]

Hi,

 

Generally, in order to show that an independent school is needed, you need to 'knock out' the other schools, by showing they could not meet his needs i.e. that only your school of choice could meet his needs.

 

So, you would need to show that the EBD and mainstream school could not meet his needs. Or an EBD type school, if they have not actually named one as yet - chase them for the response to the EBD schools; ask for copies of what has been sent out and the response. If any say they think they can meet his needs, go and look round and ask detailed questions.

 

The exclusions will 'help' your case. However, it is a shame your independent Ed Psych could not see him in his current mainstream environment and therefore comment on its unsuitability. It would be normal for a tribunal for the LA Ed Psych to also want to come and observe him, so if you think he will act differently at this new school, because of a honeymoon period, then that might not help.

 

Appeal immediately - you can send in other reports in later. It takes six months for an appeal, so you don't want to waste any time. It is perfectly normal to continue to negotiate up to the tribunal. You might at the very least get say Part 2 agreed or even Part 3. You might even agree Part 4, but you might find, because of costs that they will take it to tribunal.

 

And yes, LA's leave things to the last minute and that can be deliberate, so you don't know what is going on and are disadvantaged. They can also like to test how far you are prepared to go.

 

Best of luck and do get help from IPSEA/ACE/NAS/SOS!SEN as already suggested/x

Edited May 22, 2011 by Grace

[Sally44]

I'm not sure if an LA can change tac mid appeal and suggest a different placement??

 

My LA finalised the Statement saying that my son could go mainstream (enhanced resource), which is basically mainstream with more support. But I had a visit from the Educational Psychology Service last week asking me how I felt about an Autism Unit.

 

What is absolutely necessary is that you visit any potential placement suggested by the LA.

 

You need to ask a number of questions of each placement. What I have done is send to the placement the same questions the LA sent to our parental choice of school (this was a list of questions from the LA). Has your LA done something similar?

 

You also need your son to have been seen/assessed by your parental choice of school and must have a letter from that school stating that they can meet your sons needs and that there is a place for him.

 

What I also found very useful was that I wrote to the LA school and the specialist teaching services and asked them if any of their SpLD teachers has an extra qualification for either autism or dyslexia/dyscalculia (which my son also has). So ask your LA/school if any of their teachers have an additional qualification for ASD (or anything else your son has).

 

Also write to your NHS OT department and ask them if they commission sensory integration disorder (if that is something your child needs and is in the OT independent Statement). Also ask about their input into the school your LA has named. Usually it is "on referal on a needs led basis", which is not what you need in a Statement. Input should be detailed in terms of hours of therapy eg. SID, sensory diet, dyspraxia etc.

 

If you have an independent EP then ask them to go and visit the school the LEA have named.

 

I too would be interested to hear from anyone whose LA changed the placement mid appeal because, as you say, that means you have to change your approach as well.

 

But if you ask the behavioural school the same questions eg. how many children with ASD (and any other co-morbid diagnoses he has), what is the class size, teaching qualifications, termly budget for EP, SALT, OT etc, do they use TEACCH, do they teach life skills/social communication etc.

[mousytrap]

Thanks for the great replies. I will run through some of the points raised. Hope I don't forget anything.

 

We received the final statement only 3 days ago and will send the paperwork in tomorrow. Much of it is already in the envelope. There's pretty much just one page I need to write myself that I want to go in the first batch. I have a list of possibly 13 important items that I need to sort for the second (or maybe thrid?) batch. Know the importance of being quick anyway. Well aware that we're struggling to get him in before December if county run this to the wire. Due to the cost of what we want we are not expecting them to cave easily.

 

The mainstream school where he has been attending definitely want him to move on. They have tried all manner of measures and are basically fed up. At the end of the day the staff just don't know much about handling autistic children and have too many other children to deal with. In many cases I can see what autistic behaviour has started off the problem just from reading the incident logs, which incidentally - pardon the pun - will be submitted once I have a more recent printout. Makes for interesting reading as it covers some 30-something incidents over not quite 2 years, most of which didn't result in an exclusion. Also shows that the first incident (involving violence) was within a month of him starting there.

 

I also have minutes of a TAC meeting held just after issue of the proposed statement. Present were ourselves, some staff from the school he attends, staff of the school he was at before (we were also discussing his brother), county EP, PRU staff, parent support and paediatrician. Minutes were forwarded to LEA also but I expect they've binned them. It was clear that school didn't want to continue and PRU didn't want to take him there as they had "some rough, older boys in". That will also be sent in. I was reading somewhere online about "managed move" avoiding the exclusion going on his record??? Anyway, we have been told we *can* send him back there if we want, so it's obviously *not* turned into the permanent exclusion the school wanted.

 

I have been seeking advice through SOSSEN and they have our situation fully logged. Had a lengthy chat to Bob there (the boss?) a week or two ago, but no-one was in on Friday afternoon. We have a good independent EP lined up, with tribunal/autism experience.

 

My partner and I have both visited the school in question, which is mainly residential but does have a very limited number of day places (none still available for September this year). We are totally agreed that this is the place for him. OH was originally hoping that he could attend as a day pupil as it's not far away, but now realises he just needs to be there... Son has not been in but has been past and seen the house and classroom from the road. It's an expensive independent special school with all the therapies he might need offered.

 

We visited one of the EBD schools the LEA mentioned (45 mins away in good traffic but could easily be much more).

 

The other is one we know, from another parent in a similar situation to us, is very rough. About 15 mins away in good traffic. Her son was there for a few months (while waiting for the school we want) and acquired other bad behavours. She then had to pluck him out and try and home educate. Even now, the new school is struggling to eradicate them... Maybe I should get a letter from her in case I need it??? And more to the point, should I be forwarding his incident log to those EBD schools to put them off saying yes to the LEA? I doubt the LEA has a copy of that.

 

The county EP has observed him in school a couple of time, the latter of which was for the statement. The independent EP has not. The parts 2 and 3 statement were pretty much based on just the county EP report. The county EP and PRU are seriously coming across as county puppets these days, so much of the time we don't believe a word they say... The statement application was delayed over 18 months to start with, possibly for reasons that benefit county (I won't go into why in open forum). This was explained to us as because there wouldn't be enough evidence to get it through and no-one, of course, mentioned that we could start it ourselves.

 

I don't know what questions the LA has asked of anybody. They are unaware officially of our choice of school as we were advised not to list that on the response to the proposed statement. The puppets know, though, and have been trying to put us off for some time, saying "you won't get it", "that'll be solicitors and briefcases" and "they'll probably want him to be residential"... etc etc etc. Haha... Joke's on them... We still want to go for it. Hell, if I'm stuck at home for years on end not being able to take a job because of exclusions and part time schooling I might as well brush up on tribunals and processes in my "spare time"...

 

Plus, it's reassuring to hear from the school that "most of the families who go to tribunal with either a solicitor and/or an independent EP ***DO*** get a place"... I know who I believe...

 

As soon as the independent EP has done her report that goes to the school in question and they assess his suitability. This should not be a problem. He is exactly the type of student the school is aimed at.

 

If for now the county has named his "current school" does the independent EP visit there and just talk to the teachers about how he's been, what measures they've had in place etc? I mean, he won't actually be there... Or since he's still on their roll, should I see if he can "go in for a day"...

 

Noted other points in Sally's post. Heading out now, so will PM you with anything else relevant later on.

 

Many thanks for the advice.

 

mousy

[Sally44]

You need to make sure you put in your appeal by the deadline.

 

You need to remember that provision and placement is only evidence based. It is not opinions. It has to be recommended in reports either LA/NHS or independent ones.

 

Once the appeal is registered you will have a timescale for when you need any final evidence to be submitted by. As long as it is within that timescale you are okay. You MUST visit your preferred school, and they MUST see him or assess him and offer a written place.

 

Ideally your EP should visit the school the LA recommends and the one you and EP agree can meet his needs.

 

You can submit other evidence. I've used letters from Clubs, Cubs, support worker etc.

 

BUT do not rely on what anyone 'says'. You will be surprised how many schools say "we can't meet his needs" verbally, but at the tribunal they are the LA witness and they will say "we will do everything it takes to meet his needs". So get it in writing. If it is in the meeting minutes that is fine. I've had to tape record meetings to get information.

 

You can also do a Data Protection Act search for all paperwork relating to your son (paper and electronic) to be sent to you. That can be school, LA and all the departments/professionals that have had contact with him. NHS SALT and OT and SS and CP and CAHMS etc. But you need to allow yourself time to get the info and each search can cost up to £50. Takes around 40 days for paperwork to come through. But you may find very useful info in file notes etc.

 

The LA and Panel are going to make their decision on 1. Which school can meet his needs. So anything he needs that the LA school cannot provide (usually SALT/OT on site, therapies such as sensory integration/dyspraxia/life skills etc), 2. on the best use of resources. So if the LA quotes to provide the same provision in their school the Panel will go with that. That is why you need to prove in writing that they cannot provide it.

 

What diagnoses does your child have?

Is he assessed as average cognitive ability?

What academic level is he at.

 

You need to think about who you want as expert witnesses at the Tribunal. Do you have any legal representation?

 

You can include NHS or LEA staff - but think hard about if they will be hostile. They might be able to give some useful information if questioned by Panel. But their opinion is often not independent because they are employed by the NHS or LEA that has to pay for the input they recommend.

 

Does the school of your choice do assessments? Have you been and visited it. Have you looked at the Ofsted report.

[Sally44]

The advice I have been given is that the LA can change the placement they think can meet the child's needs at any time. Obviously there is a deadline of two weeks before the actual Appeal Hearing, but the LA could request a different placement as late evidence. BUT The LA MUST HAVE DONE THIS FROM ADVICE GIVEN TO THEM BY THEIR PROFESSIONALS IN REPORTS.

 

And the later any change of placement is made by the LA the worse it looks for them.

 

So if the LA have not put this request in writing, and there are no professional reports recommending such a placement I would recommend you just keep your mouth shut. If a professional has suggested it is worth you visiting a certain placement, then I would go - but again do not tell them to put it in writing etc. Go and visit any suggested placement and ask questions and make notes.

 

The LA should go on their experts advice. If that advice is not there, they have no grounds for suggesting or recommending it.

 

Has any professional recommended a placement in either of the EBD schools?

Edited May 22, 2011 by Sally44

[mousytrap]

You need to make sure you put in your appeal by the deadline.

 

Oh, we won't be waiting the full 2 months to do it!!!

 

You MUST visit your preferred school, and they MUST see him or assess him and offer a written place.

 

Already visited as advised above.

 

Ideally your EP should visit the school the LA recommends and the one you and EP agree can meet his needs.

 

Yes, indeedy... In fact, I have been told by the school itself that that EP knows the school well and has been there on several occasions re other cases. I fully expect that we will be funding her to visit there again and talk about his case specifically.

 

BUT do not rely on what anyone 'says'. You will be surprised how many schools say "we can't meet his needs" verbally, but at the tribunal they are the LA witness and they will say "we will do everything it takes to meet his needs". So get it in writing. If it is in the meeting minutes that is fine. I've had to tape record meetings to get information.

 

I fail to see how they could possibly be a witness on the other side. Not effectively anyway. Obviously we are aware that at the end of the day they are the "purse strings" for the school though.

[mousytrap]

You can also do a Data Protection Act search for all paperwork relating to your son (paper and electronic) to be sent to you. That can be school, LA and all the departments/professionals that have had contact with him. NHS SALT and OT and SS and CP and CAHMS etc. But you need to allow yourself time to get the info and each search can cost up to £50. Takes around 40 days for paperwork to come through. But you may find very useful info in file notes etc.

 

I could have done with a tape recorder on the time the county's own EP said to me "An EBD school would not be a good idea for x. He would be very vulnerable there."

 

The LA and Panel are going to make their decision on 1. Which school can meet his needs. So anything he needs that the LA school cannot provide (usually SALT/OT on site, therapies such as sensory integration/dyspraxia/life skills etc), 2. on the best use of resources. So if the LA quotes to provide the same provision in their school the Panel will go with that. That is why you need to prove in writing that they cannot provide it.

 

As I understand it, cost comes into it if county come up with a viable alternative for a lesser cost. It's looking like they don't have a leg to stand on.

 

What diagnoses does your child have?

 

Officially just AS and probably plenty enough evidence for ODD. He has big troubles with handwriting which could be dyspraxia. Waiting to see what the OT report says about that.

 

I have suspected ADHD for quite some time but I am alone in that as he was a very early/skilled reader. I will be interested in what the school has to say about it once he's there. A couple of professionals who have seen him commented on his fidgeting in their reports.

 

Is he assessed as average cognitive ability?

 

He is way above average. IQ of 133.

 

What academic level is he at.

 

Year 4.

 

You need to think about who you want as expert witnesses at the Tribunal. Do you have any legal representation?

 

At the moment it would appear that our team would be the independent EP, the head/deputy head of the school we want plus hopefully someone through SOSSEN. Not sure how that bit works as yet. Can afford a paid solicitor. Not as well as potentially £2K for the EP. That's why we got a good EP.

 

You can include NHS or LEA staff - but think hard about if they will be hostile. They might be able to give some useful information if questioned by Panel. But their opinion is often not independent because they are employed by the NHS or LEA that has to pay for the input they recommend.

 

I can't think of anyone useful I could call on there except maybe the NHS OT if the report is interesting. I think, though, that that report will be out too late for her to be added to the team for the day. I have a distrust of anyone possibly to be an "enemy spy" and that includes Parent Partnership...!!!

 

Does the school of your choice do assessments? Have you been and visited it. Have you looked at the Ofsted report.

 

They have all manner of professionals working there including clinical psychologists, SALTs etc. Yes and yes. It really is a rolls royce sort of place.

[mousytrap]

The advice I have been given is that the LA can change the placement they think can meet the child's needs at any time. Obviously there is a deadline of two weeks before the actual Appeal Hearing, but the LA could request a different placement as late evidence. BUT The LA MUST HAVE DONE THIS FROM ADVICE GIVEN TO THEM BY THEIR PROFESSIONALS IN REPORTS.

And the later any change of placement is made by the LA the worse it looks for them.

 

Interesting. Well, we will have to watch out for that. It's hard to imagine that any professional would say that though. I get the feeling their EP was hoping he'd be able to stay in mainstream, because she couldn't back plan B and they don't have a plan C.

 

So if the LA have not put this request in writing, and there are no professional reports recommending such a placement I would recommend you just keep your mouth shut. If a professional has suggested it is worth you visiting a certain placement, then I would go - but again do not tell them to put it in writing etc. Go and visit any suggested placement and ask questions and make notes.

 

The LA should go on their experts advice. If that advice is not there, they have no grounds for suggesting or recommending it.

 

OK.

 

Has any professional recommended a placement in either of the EBD schools?

 

As far as I know, no. Everything is on a "what are we going to do with him now?" basis...

 

mousy

[mousytrap]

Independent EP has been today, read through screeds of paperwork, done some tests with son and given me three questionnaires. She's going to hurry along the main part of her report so that we can formally approach the school for a place, and agrees that that's the place for him. Hurrah!

 

Meanwhile I need to see if I can conjure up a cheap SALT from somewhere!!! At least things are moving right along now...

 

mousy