KezT Report post Posted August 1, 2011 At the risk of going further off topic... I don't think young people today are any less respectful/apathetic/militant/whatever as a whole than other generations - but I do think we have more bad parents and therefore proportionatly less "useful contributing young citizens"... IMHO this is due to a variety of sociological issues: First is good old contraception! This has helped keep families small so many people just do not see or experience any parenting other than their own (which is always rather coloured by personal experience and not the mst objective view of your parents). When I was pregnant the first time, I went along to NCT ane-natal classes. They didn't do them inmy town, so I travelled into middle class suburbia and met 9 other prospecive middle class mums. All were older than me (and I was NOT a child mother at 27!), all held down respectable jobs. All had planned the pregnancy and most had been trying for several years. Only two of them had ever even held a baby before their own was born! And I ws the only one who had actually looked after abies before (changed nappies/fed them/been screamed at etc). Their expectations were massively wide of the mark, and they had no real concept of the time and effort bringing up a child requires. Also, since the 60's we have been the "Me" generation: life is all about about MY feelings/wants/needs... Sadly, that doesn't work so well when you are a parent when it has to be mostly about what is the correct thing, even if it's not what you or they want! However, we are constantly bombarded by the media telling us that we should be perfecty happy, beautiful, fulfilled, at all times. The misguided belief hat "blood is best" has contributed too. Whereas I apreciate taking children away from parents is always going to be traumatic and undesirable, I think we have gone way too far the other way. There are families where it is obvious that the child is never going to recieve good parenting, but we use the phase "good enough paenting" and say that as long s they are not turning up in hspital that's the importnt bit - but we all know physical injuries can be recovered from! bad parenting lasts a lifetime. Finally, the big socioloical change has been individual movement: It used to be the case that family, frinds and community were all there to help out, advise and watch over new mums - and veryone knew which kids needed extra support from the community. Now, most people live away from their family, communities have retreated into their own homes to watch TV shows and tut at people 100's of miles away and no-one speaks to their neighbours any more. Society has not got anythong that can fill this gap i support - sure start and helathy living centres etc try, but are not the same.. I can't offer solutions though:( Although I would suggest compulsory parenting courses before birth, at age 5 and age 11 as a good start. of course that costs money an is considered "nanny state" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karen A Report post Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Hehe, it's more the article I read recently where she says she's too busy to have an adult relationship...so, bless 'er, she's never actually had to balance maintaining a marriage/partnership, with bringing up an assortment of kids Just more a of a wry chuckle As I say loads I agree with, and used to love watching her progs with my girlies when they were younger ('See, SEE how you will turn out if you don't behave??!!' ) Bid http://jofrost.com/jo-frost Although supprenany makes some valid points it does concern me that she is offering advice to parents whilst apparently having no qualifications herself.I prefer to follow the advice of professionals who are actually qualified. She is a millionare on the back of her media empire which often involves offering advice to parents on what appear to me to be complex issues .Her web site has the most significant focus on her media activities and she describes her own work as ''reality TV''. In her latest programme her assessments take place in shopping centres and are then filmed for TV. I would rather people are offered a holistic assessment carried out by qualified and experienced professionals myself. Her web site offers plenty of her information about publications.media activities and TV appearances but I see that the techniques section is coming soon. Jo apparently has a natural gift for conecting with children organicaly.Oh that I had that gift.Perhaps I wouldn't have needed help then. There would be no risk of Jo Frost offering informal diagnosis because she is a nanny who is not qualified to diagnose anything. Karen. Edited August 1, 2011 by Karen A Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) http://jofrost.com/jo-frost Although supprenany makes some valid points it does concern me that she is offering advice to parents whilst apparently having no qualifications herself.I prefer to follow the advice of professionals who are actually qualified. She is a millionare on the back of her media empire which often involves offering advice to parents on what appear to me to be complex issues .Her web site has the most significant focus on her media activities and she describes her own work as ''reality TV''. In her latest programme her assessments take place in shopping centres and are then filmed for TV. I would rather people are offered a holistic assessment carried out by qualified and experienced professionals myself. Her web site offers plenty of her information about publications.media activities and TV appearances but I see that the techniques section is coming soon. Jo apparently has a natural gift for conecting with children organicaly.Oh that I had that gift.Perhaps I wouldn't have needed help then. There would be no risk of Jo Frost offering informal diagnosis because she is a nanny who is not qualified to diagnose anything. Karen. Hi Karen. Just replied to this in the other thread you posted it in..., as below: Hmmm... Dunno how well or badly qualified she is - the article only says after college she embarked on a career in nannying and has been involved in childcare for over twenty years. TBH I think it's irrelevant, as is the question of whether she has kids herself or not. I've known plenty of highly qualified psychologists and therapists etc who are absolute arses (including some cats, dogs and goldfish) http://www.dreichel.com/dr_zoe.htm, and similarly many people with kids who haven't got a clue how to parent them (watch a Jo Frost programme and you'll see them too!). On the other hand, some childless aunts and uncles are absolutely amazing with kids, achieving things with them that the parents seem incapable of achieving. To me it seems more sensible to take advice that works and can be seen to work and benefits the child from whatever source it is delivered, and to reject that which doesn't regardless of the source. I don't know much (well anything, really) about (the very well paid broadcaster) Tanya Byron (whose books are published by the BBC) other than the quick blurb I just read on her website, but there's no reason why she couldn't be just as 'good' as Jo in offering good, common sense advice that achieves what it sets out to achieve or why any other woman, mum, man, father couldn't whether qualified or not, is there? But if she's one of those numpties who suggests letting your child use you as a punchbag, giving into their every whim and listening to them whinge for endless hour after self-indulgent hour lest you dent their fragile self-esteem then she's not the nanny for me! Cos the problem is, that gives you these hugely confident, arrogant controlling kids who can only exist in the vaccuum that's been created for them at home, and as soon as they are exposed to the real world the whole facade crumbles and they come face to face with some real self-esteem issues (or alternatively, just push their way through life picking their victioms wisely from the models of victimhood that their vaccuum homes provided them with while circumnavigating everyone else with fake charm or an assumed victim stance of their own). I'm not sure, Karen, why you think Jo Frost doesn't 'demonstrate an understanding of very complex issues'? (or come to that, if you think Tanya Byron does, and does so well, why you, a parent openly admitting that you don't have the gift for naturally connecting with your child, 'don't always agree with her'? ). I think Jo frost is very good at seeing things how they are very quickly, and putting in strategies that put them right very quickly. Read through the thread again for some examples that have been put forward from the episodes so far... To be honest, both of the points raised here (Jo's 20 years experience and possible lack of diplomas vs Tanya's qualifications, and the no kids (does Tanya have kids, btw? Not that it makes a difference IMO but if it seems relevant to others(?) )) seem another variation on the 'reductive' denial and gainsaying argument discussed here: http://www.asd-forum...post__p__310907 Anyhoo... I'm not applying for the job of Jo Frost's PA and TBH she doesn't really seem to need one, the childless, unqualified, multi-millionaieress, spinster... L*P BD On the other point you raise, do you really think that every child that won't eat brocolli or go to sleep at night needs 'full holistic assessment' by 'qualified and experienced professionals'? Hasn't 'common sense' or 'friendly advice' got any role in your ideology? L&P BD OH PS: Yes, Kez T - totally agree that we are looking at the impact of all sorts of social changes too, all impacting on parenting 'styles'. But I do think that these issues tip the balance too regarding those other things you mentioned (respect, apathy, militance...), because the children you feed into that parenting dynamic come out of the other side affected by it. The biggest problem with parenting courses are that people often take only those things from them which reinforce what they already believe. When they're being taught the bits that they don't agree with/don't want to hear they just think 'oh, well every child is different' or whatever. I don't think there's necessarily a huge lack of resources for people to learn from (go to the library and borrow a book or DVD), but getting people to listen is a different bucket of frogs. Edited August 1, 2011 by baddad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
