Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Kris

      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   06/04/2017

      Depression, Mental Health and Crisis Support   Depression and other mental health difficulties are common amongst people on the autistic spectrum and their carers.   People who are affected by general mental health difficulties are encouraged to receive and share information, support and advice with other forum members, though it is important to point out that this exchange of information is generally based on personal experience and opinions, and is not a substitute for professional medical help.   There is a list of sources of mental health support here: <a href="http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=18801" target="_blank">Mental Health Resources link</a>   People may experience a more serious crisis with their mental health and need urgent medical assistance and advice. However well intentioned, this is not an area of support that the forum can or should be attempting to offer and we would urge members who are feeling at risk of self-harm or suicide to contact either their own GP/health centre, or if out of hours contact NHS Direct on 0845 4647 or to call emergency services 999.   We want to reassure members that they have our full support in offering and seeking advice and information on general mental health issues. Members asking for information in order to help a person in their care are seeking to empower both themselves and those they represent, and we would naturally welcome any such dialogue on the forum.   However, any posts which are deemed to contain inference of personal intent to self-harm and/or suicide will be removed from the forum and that person will be contacted via the pm system with advice on where to seek appropriate help.   In addition to the post being removed, if a forum member is deemed to indicate an immediate risk to themselves, and are unable to be contacted via the pm system, the moderating team will take steps to ensure that person's safety. This may involve breaking previous confidentiality agreements and/or contacting the emergency services on that person's behalf.   Sometimes posts referring to self-harm do not indicate an immediate risk, but they may contain material which others find inappropriate or distressing. This type of post will also be removed from the public forum at the moderator's/administrator's discretion, considering the forum user base as a whole.   If any member receives a PM indicating an immediate risk and is not in a position (or does not want) to intervene, they should forward the PM to the moderating team, who will deal with the disclosure in accordance with the above guidelines.   We trust all members will appreciate the reasoning behind these guidelines, and our intention to urge any member struggling with suicidal feelings to seek and receive approproiate support from trained and experienced professional resources.   The forum guidelines have been updated to reflect the above.   Regards,   The mod/admin team
dixie

Urgh cannot get a handle on it, 13 year old with Aspergers

Recommended Posts

dixie   

Hello Board,

 

Well its been a few years since I last visited this board, First let me introduce myself I am Shelley parent to Christian who is now 13 with Aspergers, he was dx at 3.5 years, short background description of Christians History he was diagnosed because when a health visitor picked up at 3.5 years that he spoke with Echolia, had all the usual pointers for dx. He was skin sensative (rain would hurt his skin and wind etc) and the outside world was a real problem for him to be in where he would he could vomit at will. In the years that followed we were able to progress Christian where now he can quite independantly travel about on his own. In his early years it was a total nightmare I feel from ten years to 13 years we had calm years, now everything has gone to pot and I just do not know how to handle this new problem or routine that he has introduced.

 

Christian has started to complain for the last couple of Months of feeling sick all the time, I have had him to the doctors once already and Doc really could not find anything wrong with him other than a bit of hayfever, the problem being is that he is elavating his symptons to the point of hysteria. It all started when he went out for a meal with his grandparents, My ex husbands family not mine who live in Manchester, They are the sort of Grandparents that overfeed them and let them induldge in sweets and cakes etc, so this had been happening all day and then they went for a meal, Meal was ordered then Christian decided he felt sick and faint and went outside the restaurant for air he decided that he was not going to go back in The family had already ordered the meal so Grandmother took his outside for him to eat, my own conclusion of the event was that he had overindudulged and did not want to face eating a meal so he put on a song and dance about feeling sick, Grandmother babyed him and he got his way to not partisipate in the event.

 

I have been promted to this board again over an event that happened today, but more about that later, I have been Christians carer since he has been diagnosed and not worked I would dearly like to but I do not have a support system around me all my family lives miles away and Christians needs have to come first, We do not get chance to go out and stay at home with the kids 24/7 Myself and my husband who I should point out is Christians Stepfather and has brought Christian up since he was 4 years old, have not been away for 3 years or had any quality time for our marriage, previously we have been able to take the children abroad but Christians attitude has got that bad that we will not go away again with him It is more stress to go away than it is to stay at home, Why spend thousands of pounds for it to be a misreable holiday, it was our anniversary last week and for the first time in ten years we decided that we needed some respite and a break for ourselves. So we booked a 3 day break to Scarborough, My son went to stay with my mother which he has no problems at all in doing and feels comfortable there. It was arranged with my sister who also has a child with Aspergers who is 7 to stay over night, all was going well, I am on my first night at Scarborough and I get woken with a phone call at 12.45am its my son on the phone complaining that he feels sick and light headed and he was panicking he was going to die I took the phone into the bathroom and sat on the toilet for half an hour trying to calm him down. My sisters children ended up taking him downstairs and they played xbox with him at 3.am (which is something I would not have done) but I was in Scarborough and he was in Manchester, The next day my sister was taking him to the pictures something he does with his father quite regular so again not out of his comfort zone at all, They drive 45 mins in traffic and she pays £32.00 to get in at the very last minute he says I feel sick and light headed and will not go in. I get a phone call again what shall I do she had her child with aspergers with her and if she did not take him in that child would have had a melt down but Christian flat refused to co-operate I had to try and ring my mother to go and pick him up lots of frantic phone calls where eventually he was picked up and taken back to my mothers house to which he then suddenly became ok again, My mother took him bowling no feeling sick, he then was asked if he wanted to visit Manchester and was given £10 spends to go he agreed he would like that very much, they got in the car travelled down there last minute he decides he is sick and asked to go home which they duly did, on the way back he is fine but passes PC World and is hinting in the car to go in as he has some money for an x box game.

 

Now to the event that has promted me here, Today we had arranged to go for an outing nothing special National trust walk and a picnic something he has done since being a baby with both grandparents and I so I know it is definately not out of his comfort zone, and in summer months something we do at least once a week to spend quality family time together, we packed a picnic something chairs in the boot, flasks, got in the car we was not out of our home town before he started with the I feel sick and faint business, crying so we turned back I headed straight to the doctors and got him booked in for another appointment for Friday, as soon as I got back 20mins when we was in the house he came down and said he felt fine now, My husband is at his wits end, he has two weeks off but we are being dictated that we have to stay in the house, My husband texted my daughter at work and asked her if she would like to go out for a walk with him because he did not want to stay confined in the house, I have had to stay at home when quite frankly I wanted to go as well, I honestly feel that he is doing this when he does not want to do something, but now he has virtually made us prisoners in our own home, and is splitting the family up with his behaviour, Physically I look at him he does not display any sympton of feeling ill no fever etc, I have looked at all the options of anxiety but if it is something he likes or peaks his interest he is fine and no problems at all, I am well aware of Autism/aspergers difficulties and have always managed to manage his behaviour but I really do not know how to handle this one, we are stressed beyond stress and the way things are going I am not sure if my marraige will survive intact, I understand teenage hormones are mixing, as well.

 

His behaviour is so difficult to manage now, He had an appointment with his Autism doctor and point frank refused to be examined, and ran out of the hospital, we have always been able to go to these meetings with ease. There is so much more I need to say but I do not want this post to be to long of which it already is. I guess the question I am asking is how much do you let Aspergers interfere in your life, we have always been able to conduct a family life around his Aspergers and accepted his difficultys and worked round them, but in the last two months it now is suffocating us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Suze   

Ok....there could be a few issues or things going on.Are you sure these are,nt genuine panic attacks?

If you believe he has control over these incidents I would explain about the visit/ trip etc, then explain an alternative if he feels sick...which could be sitting in the car till he feels better, spending the rest of the day in bed quietly ....no games etc.So that he isn,t inadvertently rewarded for the behaviour.You could just battle it through take towels and a sick bowl and insist on making the proposed trip and see how he copes.It ,s difficult to advise you as if it were my son I could tell if he was playing me or genuinely panicing and making himself feel sick as a consequence.Also try not to expect too much....we very rarely go abroad and visit the same place every yr in devon for our holiday.ASD kids can find it very difficult if they are out of their comfort zone.Theres nothing to say though that things can,t change ,my son would,nt leave the house if there was a tractor in the field next door, however a few yrs later and hes not as bad and has just bought one for himself so he does,nt have to goggle others :rolleyes: .(its a very old one that he had to re build :whistle: )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sesley   

he is also 13 and proberly starting puberty,which itself is a stressful time for most human beings,for a person on the spectrum it can be doubly so. It is possible he is feeling anxious and uses feeling unwell as a signal. Can you find out from him what triggers the sick feelings and get your people who have been with him to share at what point his sick feelings started.Is it over large gatherings of people? maybe its anxietys about having to be social when he finds having to be social hard going,because he does not understand small talk and jokes and sarcasm etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

I think the problem in all this is that for many years we have been able to successfully get him to intergrate and socialise something what he has been very happy to do, he is in main stream school and an example is that he just recently visited drayton manor with school and come home with a picture with him at the top of a ride the one that is really tall and it drops rapidly to the floor, now for years that is something that would never be an option for christian in his younger years he would not walk outside unless we sort of covered his ears kind of like a clutched headlock, this is something that he implemented himself he would put his head into our arms as we walked, it cut out the noise plus gave him the sensation of being safe, now like I say he can travel indepently outside no problem and has been presenting quite well now except for in the last couple of months it is like he has regressed, which I do know can happen things we have been doing for years suddlenly has become a problem,

 

I am not sure what to make of it all, the event that happened today I brought him home but said no tv or computer as yes I agree that would have been a reward, The family had had to forgoe our enjoyment I was not prepared for him to get his enjoyment of him being in his room on his computer and xbox, I have looked at panic attacks and I am really not sure, it does seem at times that he is playing on it, to get his own way but then today before he went he was complaining of having a cold a little sniffle which was probubly his hayfever, so he had no intention of partisipating right from the start, I took his hayfever medicene with us paracetomol, vicks nasel and anything else I could find that would elevate the symptons if they arose to into anything. Everything that we are doing with him he has never had any problem with other than his early years of which he was able to overcome.

 

I feel that I am not expecting him to handle something new as the situations he is in he has enjoyed over and over again we have never faced problems on going for a family outing or walks, behavioural issues in the home has been our main fight and nocturnal eurisis we have always with coaxing and explanation been able to find comprimises with him, and dealt with issues if they needed to, I am just not sure how much is Aspergers and how much is a teen trying to push boundaires. I probubly sound like I am coming across its me me me I am not quite able to put my thoughts into words succintly, I do understand what difficulties he faces and how he can feel about things where others would not be phased but all the things that are happening now is things that we conquered

years ago.

 

I am concerned that if it is not genuine he is going to use this one and not go to school, just before the six week break up when we had the heatwave he rang me from school demanding to come home and gave same symptons, I rang up school to let them know the situation the reply I got was all the children was feeling like that, Its hard to know when a child is swinging the leg at the best of times, As a mother obviously I do not want my son to be uncomfortable and ill, but also as soon as he has got his way he is fine again. I do not want to do him the disservice of not believing him but in an ideal world he cannot just say he is ill and refuse to partispate ie school etc. I am so confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
atlantis   

Hi,

 

This might be completely irrelevant, but perhaps its worth looking into-

 

I also have Aspergers, and used to have a lot of trouble feeling nauseous all the time. It got so bad that going anywhere for an extended period of time became impossible, and I had to quit my part-time job because I couldn't physically do it.

 

But it was my experience at work that made me realise what the problem was. It was always worst after my break, which got me thinking that it might be something i was eating. I'd feel nauseous and hot and faint and dizzy- really horrible. I decided to start experimenting with my diet, going back to basics and building on it from there, seeing which foods triggered the response. In the end I cut refined sugar, fatty/greasy foods, spicy foods, heavily flour-based foods, caffeine and alcohol out of my diet. That was last year, and I haven't felt ill since! Turned out I'm just really sensitive to certain foods. I also know a few others with AS have the same problem...

 

Like I said, this might be irrelevant, but hope it helps

 

atLantis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would aknowledge the fact that he is feeling 'ill' and finding things difficult, but that you are still going along with the plan, so a picnic, take him along, and if he feels ill offer him an alternative to help him cope. a quiet space to sit away from others untill he feels better. or go for a walk untill he feels better and then join in. or plan for it to be shorter than usual. So you are only making him stay for a short while. Ok I know you are feeling ill, but we are having a picnic and we are going to stay untill 2pm and then we can go home. As it does seem strange that he recovers quickly and that its doing things that are not usually stressful for him. As he has done them before for years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
sesley   

anxietys are very real,they may be annoying and inconvienent to you,but you have to try to think about what life is like for him. he may be lacking self condfidence,and when he is required to be social, when for him its a nightmare the anxietys come out in sickness. Inside he may be feeling terrified,expressing how he feels by words may well be impossible. Being forced into social stuff just intensifys the angst. You must allow for him to chill out in whatever way he finds comforting.Aspergers find social interactions very difficult,he may feel unsure about the jokes or lots of chattering the usual social stuff people do. And 13 he is facing puberty with lots of hormonal changes which he will be finds confusing and scarey.I think you need to be a bit more sympathetic and see if you can find away to get him to express what he is feeling and what upsets him,and see if there is a way you can lessen the stress with strategys for him to cope.Yes they can be manuiplateing but you really do need to try to see things from his point of view and try to understand him more. Is he affectionate,can you hug him? Hugs can give a sense of comfort and that he is safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baddad   

Hi -

 

I typed a longish reply to this yesterday and then accidentally closed internet explorer instead of posting it!

With regard to the above I do believe that anxieities can be real, but I also believe that far more often - especially where they are rewarded - there can be far simpler explanations for them that apply equally to children with AS as neurotypical children. I'd agree with you emphatically that his AS does not preclude in any way the much more likely explanation you've acknowledged by saying you:

 

honestly feel that he is doing this when he does not want to do something

 

 

From what you have posted it does sound IMO as if Christian has developed a very useful and very succesful manipulative strategy for avoiding anything he doesn't want to do, while simultaneously controlling the actions and behaviours of all those around him. Think of that in Christian's terms, and what's not to like about it?

 

What happens when Christian is 'sick', other than the reward he gets of avoiding things he doesn't want to do or seeing everybody else dance to his tune? What happens when he miraculously recovers ten minutes afterwards?

 

Dunno about anyone else here, but I'm happy to put my hand up and say that at twelve/thirteen I was quite adept at feeling so 'sick' in the morning that i could convince my mum I couldn't go to school. I'd even vomit to prove the point if challenged (quickly roll tongue to back of throat and contract diaphram - bob's yer uncle, fanny's yer aunt and breakfast's on the kitchen floor...). At around ten past nine - i.e. ten minutes after mum would insist I had to go in - I'd make a miraculous recovery that enabled me to sit snugly on the sofa watching daytime tv all day. :). Nowt to do with autism, stress, or anything else - just the absolute knowledge that it worked every time and there was no real negative consequence to doing it...

 

Had I been my mum, I would have responded to my illnesses and miraculous recoveries very differently. I do appreciate that this isn't a school thing, but think the same logic applies... If something planned is put off for 'illness' and the recovery occurs within ten minutes then just go ahead as planned but ten minutes later. If this induces a sudden relapse then obviously there is something 'serious' going on, demanding uninterrupted bed rest (no TV, no PC, no music etc... books are okay except when the bedridden are avid readers anyway who would be relish the option of staying in bed all day with a good book) and extreme caution regarding food and water intake (plain water, dry toast, sipped/small quants)...

 

If the symptoms are genuine none of these measures are in any way extreme (who wants to eat/drink when they feel sick? Who doesn't want to rest when they are feverish/uncomfortable?) and are in fact both practical and sensible. You're not 'punishing' the child, you are responding to their needs in the most appropriate way that you can, in a manner that any Dr you did manage to get them examined by would probably recommend. :thumbs:

 

 

NB: One other thing I noted in your original post: While I would totally agree that your nephew shouldn't have had to miss his cinema trip because your son bailed on the idea, I think that the reasoning behind that should have nothing to do with circumventing a 'meltdown'... However unfair life can be sometimes, meltdowns are not an acceptable response to disappointment regardless of whether a child has Aspergers or not.

 

Hope that's helpful

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

First let me say thankyou for all replies I am sorry I have not been back sooner to be honest I am washed out and drained, so please please bear with me if I hope my post will come out as I want it to, I have tried to take onboard all the opinions, I am fighting with my own head and cannot work out the ifs and buts, On the return from the picnic yesterday I tried to cover all bases when we got in by giving him his hayfever medicene, it was a just in case it is that precaution, then he came down feeling fine, and he then concluded himself he felt better and it must have been his hayfever, I am not convinced however he had any hayfever symptons, We successfully took christian out today, I was determined to try again with him as I know he is quite capable of doing the walk and picnic of what I have previously done many times, I am not sure if Christian experiences his hayfever symptons and misinterprets the sypmtons for something bigger so before we went I made sure he had taken his medicene, there was no symptons at all present, I prepared him like advised above that we are going for a picnic etc and I did not want to leave him behind I wanted him to be part of the family experience. No drama at all from him, and did a good hour walking an interacted fine with me as what I would normally expect, I understand how Aspergers has social communication issues, its not that I do not understand anxiety and stressful situations with a child/teenager/adult with Aspergers/Autism, I have always believed that you can give your child excuses for there behaviour because they have been diagnosed I try not to do that, I have always tried to bring Christian on rather than keep him at a level because of his Aspergers but also be respectful of what he finds difficult, and I think he has excelled in situations by his own achievements not always by our guiding hand.

 

The difficulty I am finding like this whole thread has so many different opinions that is what it is like in my head, As a mother there is something extreme going on if he is crying and hyterical that he is going to die, That I accept there is something that needs addressing in the way Panic Attacks should be addressed, he is handling situations, but yet I do find myself agreeing that it can come on occasions where it seems that he has developed a routine where if he feels a little bit unwell or Hot he can get the reaction of what he wants not partispating, When Christian was younger a hug was out of the question for a goodnight kiss he would kiss my hubbys hand (never understood that one) and just more or less head butt me, but through the years he became a loving boy who would give you a hug at the drop of a hat, tonight I received one from him, I am a very touchy feely character and both my children I tell them I love them many times aday they accept that I am a softie and sometimes they joke about it but they are always told.

 

I am confused because like I keep saying Christian is controlling situations of which he has never really shown any difficulty to, He had a phobia of pigeons, because of the surprise flapping, he has now conquered that phobia if he was doing the sickness thing over say walking through the marketplace where they all would be I would understand why he would be complaining of being sick, The problem is the cause comes out of nowhere, I know he has always been ok with the places he has been so I do not think I am putting him in a stressful situation, Baddad I agree with your post entirely, and I would more lean to your idea, yet I also understand how someone with Aspergers can have anxiety like others have said. If I ignored his request of I am feeling ill, he then works himself up that I cannot breathe and crying, of which then I am trying to stop him feeling Anxious, so at which point we came home. I am drained because it seriously is effecting family life and I am the sort of person that will look for any answers to try to make the problem into a positive outcome, his behaviour is causing divisions in the family whether it is of an Aspergers Nature or not, hence why I am tired and drained.

 

I really do not think I am explaining myself right at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

What I am trying to say is that there is some occasions where it seems beneficial for Christian to avoid situations where he does not want to join in where it seems that he can quickly say I am hot I feel sick, The picnic occasion he started to complain in the car, knowing from the outcome in Manchester that the reward is to not do the event, If ignored he will then esculate the feeling to crying, can we go home, almost like a terrible two tantrum when they are not allowed sweets etc, He has never had a so called panic attack with me but has before complained of feeling sick etc cannot breathe, so I took him to docs thinking it could be asthma sp?, he has never gone into a full blown hysteric where he cannot be calmed down, but this did happen in Manchester and again the next day, I am very concerned and worried that I may overlook a geninue case, but the situation is now controlling the family life to such a degree that we as a family are at our lowest point, and realistically not something that we can overcome and still be a family unit

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baddad   

Hi again dixie -

Firstly, I think you're explaining yourself very well under the circumstances. You're trying to see every possible angle and you are trying to do the right thing for your son without really knowing what the right thing is - that's bound to be confusing, emotive and difficult for you. TBH, I think you're being very honest (to a degree that many parents of autistic children struggle with) and very realistic by not automatically defaulting to the very comforting (but unhelpful and disabling) assumption that these behaviours can only be a manifestation of some sort of 'autistic' crisis...

 

It is perfectly natural to feel hugely concerned by the symptoms, but i think you also need to consider the reasons why Christian himself might be reluctant or refuse to address any potential medical implications directly: in the simplest terms, he knows - as you know - that there is no real evidence to back up the symptoms he's describing. If there was, then all other issues aside and regardless of any personal 'stress' involved, he would want to look into them...

 

In my other post I made the suggestion that you respond as though the symptoms he's telling you he feels are real. That is, IMO, a sensible response in either scenario. If he is genuinely feeling sick/faint/having a panic attack then there are clear medical responses for each of those symptoms. For the former, sickness and faintness, then an enforced peiod of bedrest is a sensible response, and for the latter a paper bag to help him control his breathing/decrease the liklihood of hyperventilating. If he is, as you suspect (and I tend to agree), pulling a flanker then those responses are going to be much more likely to disuade him from re-enacting the behaviours than the current rewards he is receiving.

 

As you have said, the situation is now that he is controlling the family dynamic to a degree that is unreasonable and damaging for everyone else. With the best will (and intentions) in the world that is NOT an acceptable state of affairs even if his symptoms are 100% genuine.

 

HTH

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Suze   

H Dixie....try not to be so hard on yourself >:D<<'> ...

.........have you tried to talk to him about what has been going on?.....can he understand how confusing his behaviour has been to you all?..........if it were me I would go for small steps and not ask for too much too quick.Stick to trips that will be closer to home , shorter time span etc.

 

what does your son enjoy doing?...........could you suggest that next time you have a successful trip and he does,nt complain, that he can choose where to go or what to do on any subsequent trip?

I,m inclined to believe that he does get panicky and feel sick on occassions , but that he is using this again to prevent going on trips and so averting the sick /panicky feeling again.I think its just a case of reassuring him, firm and consistant reactions from you

and breaking this cycle that he appears to have got himself into.By doing small and short trips and building up from there hopefully you,ll be able to push through any anxieties he has and you can begin to ask and expect a bit more from him.Best of luck suzexx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mumble   

I tried to cover all bases when we got in by giving him his hayfever medicene, it was a just in case it is that precaution, then he came down feeling fine, and he then concluded himself he felt better and it must have been his hayfever, I am not convinced however he had any hayfever symptons, We successfully took christian out today, I was determined to try again with him as I know he is quite capable of doing the walk and picnic of what I have previously done many times, I am not sure if Christian experiences his hayfever symptons and misinterprets the sypmtons for something bigger so before we went I made sure he had taken his medicene, there was no symptons at all present

Just a small point because there's likely more than one thing going on here. I assume his hayfever meds are anti-histamines? Anti-histamines also act as anti-emetics (anti-sickness) and depending on the action of the medication can stop someone feeling sick (even if the cause is anxiety). Just worth considering because he may be feeling sick (even if no medical cause and then over-interpreting it and using it to control) and the hayfever meds may help that, which could cause him confusion. Just a thought. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

Hello again,

 

Thankyou once again for all your replies, I did not want to come back to this board till I had taken Christian to the Doctors today, I feel so terrible and feel like I have failed my son, The Doctor has diagnosed Panic Attacks, and has put him on Citlopram once aday, he says that because the attack happened with myself as well that is why he thinks they are Panic Attacks, if it was confinded to the visit up manchester then that could be explained away as being in a strange place etc,

 

I am not sure what my feelings are today other than I need to make whatever Christians Stresses are more comfortable, this does not mean however it will be a licence to run rings round me as I still do not believe that Autism has to be the excuse for everything.

 

Today has been fraught hopefully I have managed to get the divisions in the family on parr, I still really cannot get my head round it all but I cannot ignore that my son now will be taking tablets. On one hand anything that will take away whatever fear is feeling whether it be hayfever, stress, anxiety I hope the tablets bring Christian back to the level that I know he was at but it my aim to get him back to the level.

 

I wish there was a Crystal ball when events like this happen I just feel like I have let him down. :crying: :crying:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Suze   

You have,nt let him down , ignoring the symptons and not taking him to the Dr for advice would have been letting him down.Let the meds begin to kick in and let him chill and relax for a few days.But its also important to still attempt short trips that won,t push him out of his comfort zone.All the time reassuring him etc.It maybe that these trips need to be done just with you and him.The worry is that he,ll take these attacks and become more introvert and start with agro phobia.Its important to remember that he will improve in time , I speak from personal experience here and with the right help from those around him , you will get the old christian back, best wishes xx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

Thankyou Suze, I think I am more beating myself up wondering if I could have handled it all better, though weather we have medical conditions or not Life does not have a manual, because we have had calm years I forgot what a wonderful board this was for support and guidance, I will be sure to keep being a part of it again. :thumbs:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baddad   

As above :thumbs:

 

I'd also add that in a situation like this most GP's would have to err on the side of caution. That's not to suggest in any way that caution is the wrong response, but it only addresses one part of what is undoubtedly a very complex dynamic.

 

Hope the meds help, but as Suze as said they're only going to be part of the solution.

 

L&P

 

BD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

Thankyou Baddad for your reply,

 

Christian has now been on the meds for Ten days, There has been no stressful situations in the house directly with him, mainly because I asked my husband to back off and let me deal with Christians behaviours something that we have never done as a family, when we got together I never put divisions in place that I was the only parental displinarian because I do not believe in it, I asked my husband to take me as a package therefore I could not pick and choose when I wanted him to be a parent, We try to show a united front in front of the children and debate it when they are not around if there is disagreements between us, It has been so difficult to work out the battle between stepdad and 13 year old aspergers raging hormone teenager, It has also been hard on my hubby because he has been a parent to him since 4 years old and yet now in effect I am asking him not to be a Parent to him, Christian is still running his mouth towards my husband and I am doing my best to address this when it happens and let Christian know that it is not acceptable for him to talk to a person in that manner, So my husband at the moment is being spoken to very disrespectfully without a right of reply, Not very healthy for any family unit.

 

My head is blitzed by it all, So given that there has been no stressful behaviours that christian has encountered, I woke him up at 7am this morning for school and everything ran smoothly Christian was in a good mood a bit tired but generally his demenour was good, he likes to have space in a morning to get ready and for me not to be in his face like a mother is getting her children to school so when I have made sure he has done everything washed brushed teeth, sandwiches in the bag etc I usually go upstairs and let him adjust to his day, this is a stratagy that has always benefited the both of us so there is no arguments between us in a morning.

 

I came downstairs at 8.30am to remind him that he has to be in school and should be walking or he was going to be late, I found him almost catatonic on the sofa, he complained he was tired and feeling sick, I told him he would be ok and it will shortly pass and he left for school, but alarm bells were going off in my head anticipating what was next going to happen, sure enough 9am I receive a phone call from him complaining that he feels sick and his throwt was closing up, I again reasurred him he would be ok and to go and see his tutor (his main form teacher) as I had been on the phone to school to his learning support team and advised them on Christians Panic attacks and that he was now on medication, so they have procedures in place to deal with this, I cannot allow him to keep coming home for one the law says he has to have an education, I was worried that this would start happening.

 

whilst researching though I have been looking into PDA I had never heard of it before, and It does describes Christians behaviours exactly, I believe Christians diagnosis of Aspergers is correct all the traits that he had was definately Aspergers poor eye contact using me as a tool, lining up things, communication delay, fears and phobias etc, NAS believes that you can have Aspergers and PDA yet PDA associations say that it should be a seperate issue. Christian is displaying unreasonable responses to reasonable requests alot of the arguments that happen between my husband and son are over reasonable issues. example Christian has alot of nosebleeds doctor says because hayfever damages your blood vessels in the nose so christian will find anything to stem the flow of blood tissues socks then leave them strewn over the floor, when there is a bin at the side of him, these can sometimes look more suited to be in casualty my husband sees his room like this and asks him to pick them up and put them in the bin, It simply is not nice or hygenic to have all this on the floor when he is perfectally capable of putting them into a bin, This then creates a war with my son as he chooses to be rude and uncoperative which escalates pretty fast.

 

On my original posts I do say that he is controlling how the family works with his non compliance at simple things, having never heard of PDA till today it is certainly very interesting to me, Does anyone have any thoughts? I also want to stress that I am not that person that has to have a lable to explain my sons behaviour Some is just a teenager trying to push his boundairys in preperation of getting his independance.

 

 

Update Christian has now come in from school in a great moood smiling etc, talking about how windy it is today I have even managed to broach a subject that is quite embarrassing for any lad of 13 and managed to have a great successful conversation with him about it, looking at his internet history Christian has developed abit of a curious interest in sites are of a porn nature, something I would expect a healthy teenage boy to be curious about, Told him its natural to have curiosity but that really is not what sex should be about and its natural for him to be curious or even like what he sees but if he has any questions he can always come to me and I will always give him a true answer without embarrassment, if he was embarrased then I could get him a book that explained changes and sex, I think I have handled it right, that being said, I asked him if he went to see his tutor and he said no he was fine it went away. To echo my thread title URGH!

Edited by dixie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baddad   

Hi Dixie -

 

as you've asked... IMO 'PDA' (and 'ODD') don't really exist - they're just recently coined tems (coined being the operative word because the people who came up with the acronyms and the psychobabble surrounding them are minting it!) for well-established behavioural 'norms'. They're prettied up a bit, to disguise the fact that it's pretty basic stuff, but effectively the single most important 'technique' and the whole thrust of intervention is to ensure that parents/carers etc aren't inadvertantly rewarding negative behaviours. That's been a key perspective on behavioural management pretty much since the begining of time :whistle: . Firm boundaries and expectations are seen as key/vital elements of support, but the emphasis is made (particularly with PDA) that these should be enforced 'non-confrontationally'. I think that latter consideration undermines the whole process, but I'm sure many parents take comfort from it because it effectively removes the imperative to enforce sanctions (lets face it, no matter how you pretty it up no kid - especially an aggressive one - is going to see 'no' when they want a 'yes' as anything OTHER than confrontational, are they?). Before anyone jumps in 'confrontation' does NOT mean abuse - it just means tackling the problem effectively and in a straightfoward way rather than enabling the child to control and dicate the situation and effectively take the adults role in what should be a much healthier dynamic.

 

Obviously MO's regarding PDA and ODD aren't gonna be popular ones among parents or professionals who, for whatever reason, are buying into or selling this stuff, but then I haven't got a psychological or financial stake in it! I really really do think it is all very very simple, no matter how much window dressing or jargon you surround it with: A child who gets his/her own way by avoiding doing what he/she is asked or by defiance will continue to avoid doing what he/she is asked or being defiant. If there are genuinely meaningful (to the child) sanctions imposed and negative (to the child) consequences they won't. Both are new 'boom' industries (just like autism) with incidence and dx rising exponentially. We can assume all sorts of reasons for that - better recognition, etc etc - but lets not overlook the very real changes that have occured in parenting styles, professional responses, and 'typical' family dynamics while that growth has happened.

 

Hope that's helpful, even if only as an 'alternative' perspective.

 

With regard to your husband not sanctioning your son I think this is totally misguided, and I think if your son now feels empowered to verbally abuse your husband without your husband having a 'right to reply' it is totally predictable that it'll get worse - unless the sanctions you impose when he does so are powerful enough disincentives to overcome the control 'buzz' that any aggressive 13 year old would get from being able to pee all over their father's authority. TBH, if I was a father put in that position you'd be getting some fairly obvious symptoms of demand avoidance and defiance from me too! :lol:

 

L&P

 

BD

Edited by baddad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great u managed to get him to go into school anyway, and that he stayed there. Did he call you from his own phone or school office phone? If he was using his own phone why was he not in class? Or why was he using his phone in class?

 

what procedures have the school put in place for when he says he feels like this?? Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to meet with school staff to discuss the issues he is having, and decide what should be done when this happens. Also perhaps tell him its not ok to call u during school hours, and if there is a problem he should seek help from staff, who will call you if it is indeed an emergency. Do you and he know the staff well enough to trust them to work through the problem with?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

Hello again,

 

Quite an interesting reply Baddad, and food for thought, I actually agree with all your comments and I can see sence in what you are saying, I am just looking at PDA at the moment as I do not know much about it at all other than what I have been reading today, I do believe that children should have boundary and structure and always endevoured to try and provide this there is always a consequence to an action by Christian weather it be verbal or removal of pocket money or television for a night etc.

 

Hmmmm our family dynamic is quite a complex one and there are a few things in the mix, I suppose I asked my husband to back off is Christian is continually expressing that My husband is on his case so to speak, I do think that the things my husband asks Christian to do he is capable for his age and reasonable but myself and my hubby see things differently on what battles we sometimes choose, Also I do have Christians Real father in the mix who is a piece of work himself, it was a very bad relationship that I do not need to go into here but the man is very manipulative and influences Christian to disrepect my hubby ie, you do not have to listen to him he is not your dad! I am! etc etc, If it was up to me he would not have a relationship with his children but I know the importance of a child maintaining contact with there father for them, also I have no legal power on my side, Fathers have rights now, which I totally agree they should but situations are not always as cut and dried as they seem on paper.

 

Asking my hubby to back off was basically a last resort for me as things had got that bad last Friday that we decided that we could no longer go on as a family, It was the best thing to disolve the war that was happening between them so to speak, I do not like it all but with Christian presenting with Anxiety I was at a loss what to do. Taking the full responsibility meant that Christian could not complain my hubby "was on his case".

 

You are right this world is very different now than it was 20 years ago now you are judged for being a parent and have been critised for being unfair when I have had to put consequence in place for his actions.

 

An example On the Scarborough Visit I went to pick up Christian in Manchester I live in Nottingham, When we arrived Christian started to get in an argument with us and he was shouting at us and dictating to us etc I was addressing this situation with him, saying it was unacceptable for him to be talking to me like he was I was his mother and he is 13 years old and christian started to cry, my stepfathers sister walked in and then had a go at me saying it was him being a teenager all the usual exuses but an argument ensued between us because she was asked politely to stay out of my business but would not take the hint, She said alot of hurtful comments which basically amounted to because he is a teenager I should let his behaviour go and I was in the wrong and a bad mother. So We left after only ten minutes and travelled back to Manchester. I was shocked and upset and also my head was in a spin as these Panic attacks were the first time of happening to that extent,

 

All this is in my head, am I a bad mother? am I letting a situation get out of hand? Am I failing my son by somehow not recognising his needs or being there for him?

 

Whatever the reason for the behaviour, anxiety, defiance, manipulation from the ex, Aspergers, Teenage hormones, I honestly do not know what is the best avenue to follow.

 

I do welcome the advice or critique I can see it is well meaning, not vindictive of which the family members was.

Edited by dixie

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dixie   

Great u managed to get him to go into school anyway, and that he stayed there. Did he call you from his own phone or school office phone? If he was using his own phone why was he not in class? Or why was he using his phone in class?

 

what procedures have the school put in place for when he says he feels like this?? Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to meet with school staff to discuss the issues he is having, and decide what should be done when this happens. Also perhaps tell him its not ok to call u during school hours, and if there is a problem he should seek help from staff, who will call you if it is indeed an emergency. Do you and he know the staff well enough to trust them to work through the problem with?

 

I phoned his learning support team to notify that he was now on Medication and explained the panic attacks the key symptons, They was very helpful to be honest, they put a structure in place where if he thinks he is having one he can go to the sensory room, The school is mainstream but pride themselves on having many other special need pupils weather physically disabled wheelchairs or Aspergers Autism, They provided me with an email address direct to the support team so I can contact quicker, the whole school works on an email system between the teachers so gave me direct quick contact if there is a problem,

 

I believe he was on his way to a lesson with it being 9am. As he would have had registration first so I presume he would have been ringing me on his way to his lesson from his mobile.

 

I am awaiting an appointment with Cam as he fell out of the system somehow and I have just had to go through the whole process again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great the school are so supportive, so hopefully they will continue to help him through it. communication between you and the school is the best thing, so you can work together.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
baddad   

Hmmmm our family dynamic is quite a complex one and there are a few things in the mix, I suppose I asked my husband to back off is Christian is continually expressing that My husband is on his case so to speak, I do think that the things my husband asks Christian to do he is capable for his age and reasonable but myself and my hubby see things differently on what battles we sometimes choose, Also I do have Christians Real father in the mix who is a piece of work himself, it was a very bad relationship that I do not need to go into here but the man is very manipulative and influences Christian to disrepect my hubby ie, you do not have to listen to him he is not your dad! I am! etc etc, If it was up to me he would not have a relationship with his children but I know the importance of a child maintaining contact with there father for them, also I have no legal power on my side, Fathers have rights now, which I totally agree they should but situations are not always as cut and dried as they seem on paper.

 

Asking my hubby to back off was basically a last resort for me as things had got that bad last Friday that we decided that we could no longer go on as a family, It was the best thing to disolve the war that was happening between them so to speak, I do not like it all but with Christian presenting with Anxiety I was at a loss what to do. Taking the full responsibility meant that Christian could not complain my hubby "was on his case".

 

 

 

hi again dixie -

 

Just a quickie on this particular point: Yep, it is a huge problem when the grown-ups won't play nicely, and in a situation like the one you describe (whoever is rocking the boat, M or D or stepwhatever) you've got a weak point ripe for exploitation by the kids involved. I can fully understand the reasoning to taking SD out of the equation, but think the problem with that is it just reinforces/confirms the inappropriate stuff. Dad says SD hasn't got a right of reply, now mum's confirming it...

 

IMO you'd probably be better off tackling it the other way - a united front from you and SD and the very clear message that on this issue at least 'real' dad is in the wrong. Obviously you've got to approach that in a way that doesn't make real dad the 'baddy' or undermine him, but there's no denying he is in the wrong and your son needs to know that, and to know that while SD isn't his biological dad his role in the family is that of father and he will be treated accordingly. I'd be tempted to go the other way, in fact - you step back and give SD the total responsibility for discipline, with you only stepping in to back him up.

 

Thanks, BTW, for seeing my last post for what it was rather than taking it as some sort of personal attack. Very refreshing! :lol:

 

Hope the above is helpful

 

L&P

 

BD :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another thing i wanted to add is, of course ur not a 'bad mother' you are just trying to help your son as best u can, it sounds as though the school will be very supportive. Hopefully if you all work together, things will improve for both u and Christian. ur aknowledging the fact something is 'wrong' (whatever the cause may be) and doing something about it. There may be some underlying issue thats bothering him.

Edited by something_different

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×