College experiment

[Fourthdimension]

Hi,

 

I hope this post is nt too vague but i am really tired because i just been in a class full of strangers and its drained me so sorry for the lack of detail and shortness of my post

 

Recently , i been watching lots of programs on Aspergers and talking to like minded people and today has been my first class room since January.

 

Recently , i realised that i am different than NT people and realise that the problem is nt that i am different (well it is the problem) but the main problem is anxiety because i get so anxious and i either show my self up by been random and talking to much to distract everyone from my behaviour or doing something stupid

 

Today, i just decided right "this is me" i dont have to be normal and i dont have to follow norms i just have to avoid conflict so i went into class and i never felt like talking so i just sat there and everyone else was talking but i did nt want to so i just sat there and studied despite the whole class socialising and from taking the back seat and been the observer i could see people looking at me different but then this helped diferentiate the bad from the good from just doing this i could tell who was going to be a problem and who was nt and a few even noticed my solitude and made an effort to speak to me and a few made nasty remarks but i kept my cool and i never even attempted top retaliate because you know what? there not worth it A****holes who are abusive verbally just arent worth it at all and i ll just bide my time and then one day i ll whip the whole dictionary out on the little rat and watch them squek in the corner

 

but to be honest although it was nt 100 percent perfect i still felt happy that one or two made the effort to speak to me because it shows there nice people and there the people i should be putting the effort in to socialise with them instead of wasting my effort on trying to look normal

 

 

sorry just a long rant to let off some steam and idealism

Take care

[Fourthdimension]

maybe i was wrong because today i done the same but felt rejected even by those who attempted to socialise with me it felt like i was been scrutinized by them not that am bothered - who needs them anyways

[Kathryn]

Hi Fourthdimension

 

It's good that you feel you can be yourself and not put on a sociable act. However it still sounds as though you're unhappy because you would like people to connect with you.

 

The majority of people feel some degree of social anxiety in unfamiliar situations, even those who are so called "NT". Each person will worry about how they are coming across to others and will probably be looking for reassuring signals that the other person is interested in communicating with them - even just a look a "hi" and a small smile can be enough. If you appear tense or defensive and wait for others to take the initiative this may be interpreted as hostility and a desire to be left alone. They might not want to approach you for fear of being snapped at or ignored - because that's embarrassing.

 

Give it time - these situations are always awkward and everyone feels under scrutiny from a roomful of people they don't know. You may find as you spend time with them that you relax more and find common things you can all talk about.

 

 

K x

[Fourthdimension]

Thank you Kathryn

 

this is relating to what i posted but i wrote it in another topic heres what i wrote

 

At first i always doubted wether maybe somehow i was exageratting my symptoms unintentionally but now i know for certain am not. I decided to just be myself in college as i mentioned and at first it went well but now i feel scrutinized,paranoid and different in all my classes and i dont find the teachers helpful i find them patronising and the one teacher i liked who was my psyche teacher i went to talk to him about it but instead i just ended up getting really anxious and lecturing him on gender development and he was pretty impressed because i think i knew just about as much as him on the topic and when he asked how long it took me to learn it i told him less than 3 weeks to memorise it all word for word as a hobby and he was pretty amazed as even he could nt remeber it all word for word haha

 

So ,even though he is nice i also get the feeling that he feels challanged in regards to me knowing just as much as him regarding all the criteria on the course because this leaves him little room to slip up

 

anyways what i was saying was i feel scrutinized by my peers and at first i thought "hey if your trying to be yourself maybe what it is is your labelling yourself and thats why your acting like a stereotypical aspergric person would be expected to act" but then on the way home i remebered back to my old course where i attempted to socialise and realised that i was scrutinsed just the same which lead me to the conclusion that am not exageratting at all and its a real problem i have regardless of how i present it or myself

 

Sometimes i agree with you that it sounds fake and just another label in the labelling theory but then when i see how others act around me i realise that its not fake at all but nevertheless i dont think the weight of a title is that beneficial although there are some good points to it

 

I had tagged along walking behind my peers and i never knew any of them i was just following so i could find my class and then these two lads walked by and i am positive that i heard one say "he looks like the type of lad who was bullied at school" so i walked out and i could see these two little weak rats walking on continueing there discussion no doubt been abusive to another person along there way and i watched them for a good 5 minutes and i was full of hate i was considering walking over and smashing them to a pulp which i know i could i just wanted to hook them up to some sophisticated torture machine to watch them squirm for there inconsideration and show them how f****n inconsiderate i can be to them but i just walked away.

 

i just feel the whole colleges eyes on me as if there stairing through my shell and dprodding at my vonrabillities and corners of rooms are where i try to sit unn oticed but i feel like a magnet to the human eye as if uncontrolably i drift back into there gaze

 

at first i thought maybe i was exagerating my symptoms but i was wrong i guess i was just idealising social situations more than i should have. maybe lack of social contact made me forget how bad it can really be

 

From what i could tell the only difference is that HFA learn to write and read latert than aspies

 

well i suppose my day has been constructive as i took 20 of my little foleded up a4 pages to college to learn while i hear the social muttering of others other than that its been rubbish as i sat in 2 classes learning things i already know word for word while been scrutinised by others - if i had something to learn maybe i would nt notice the others but the damn teacher must think the class is a nursery and taught us patronising stuff

 

there was one good things maybe 2 - last night after biology i was walking home and i walked past a woman in my class and i said "good night" and she said the same to me and then today she passed me some work and i told her thank you and i observed her Non verbal communication and she seemed to be nice to me and she smiled although i dont find her attractive its still nice to see pleasant gestures

 

there was also the dinner lady - in a social situation i get nervous so i drink lots of coffee so i was a regular face withing the first day and she commented about how i have good manners and i engaged in a brief convo then today she asked my name and said hers was jo so said thanks jo and told her bye but she smiled and i think she likes me too

 

even the two interactions i mentioned still feel very mechanical but i guess if i was after affection i would have got a dog or a cat

 

Sorry for my pessimistic banter

 

p.s. because of some problems last year i decided to state on my medical form that i might have AS and i think maybe the teachers never believed me and thats why today myopsyche teacher handed out what he called "a personality test" which looked alot like an Aspie test lol and everyone needed to complete them and i got e=2 n=22 and the teacher was making everyone shout out the score so he could read a description of there personality types and when he read mine it was stuff like pessimistic,likes to be alone and all the usual stuff and i felt like he should have been more considerate and i feel like the reason they did it in the first place was because they doubted me

 

and when they were doing the ice breaker they were adding adjectives onto there names and for some reason i got "mental michael" not that anyone was aware of my problem although the people next to me were questioning my odd behaviour all the time in relation to the personality test

 

Thanks

[Lyndalou]

Hi FD

 

It sounds like you are having a really rough time and that at the moment you are very confused. If your behaviour is noticeably different from day to day around other people then it probably will be seen to be 'odd' because there needs to be a degree of consistency for people to be able to get to know you and it just doesn't 'compute' if the behaviour changes.

 

It could be that the lecturer does not remember you writing in a form that you thought you had AS, in relation to the 'test' he got you to fill in. It could simply be a way of demonstrating that we all come in many shapes and sizes and have various personality types as you did say it was in the context of an 'icebreaker' but it must be very hurtful to be called 'mental' by people who don't know you! It may be worth speaking to your lecturer and explain how the discussion made you feel, especially as you are finding the social part of Uni quite difficult. I remember well what my classmates thought of me, including 'highly strung' and 'neurotic' when my anxieties completely overwhelmed me at Uni and how I ended up just withdrawing completely to the library. It may be worth seeking out help for your anxiety so that you can cope with classes and not be constantly preoccupied with your own behaviour in front of others.

 

Lynda

[Fourthdimension]

Hi FD

 

It sounds like you are having a really rough time and that at the moment you are very confused. If your behaviour is noticeably different from day to day around other people then it probably will be seen to be 'odd' because there needs to be a degree of consistency for people to be able to get to know you and it just doesn't 'compute' if the behaviour changes.

 

It could be that the lecturer does not remember you writing in a form that you thought you had AS, in relation to the 'test' he got you to fill in. It could simply be a way of demonstrating that we all come in many shapes and sizes and have various personality types as you did say it was in the context of an 'icebreaker' but it must be very hurtful to be called 'mental' by people who don't know you! It may be worth speaking to your lecturer and explain how the discussion made you feel, especially as you are finding the social part of Uni quite difficult. I remember well what my classmates thought of me, including 'highly strung' and 'neurotic' when my anxieties completely overwhelmed me at Uni and how I ended up just withdrawing completely to the library. It may be worth seeking out help for your anxiety so that you can cope with classes and not be constantly preoccupied with your own behaviour in front of others.

 

Lynda

 

Hi Lynda,

 

 

I feel much better today i just felt really fatigued from been around people alot yesterday Your right i do have to make some consistent behaviour because i have been switching and swapping alot to see what might work for me.

 

Maybe your right maybe the lecturer did nt know but the person in charge said she would inform them despite me objecting to her descion. When he gave out the test i remarked "i done a similar test like this before" to try and read his reaction and on one hand nothing changed . he did nt look at me in recognition but on the other hand he never asked me what test because surely if someone remarks that they done something similar test the teacher might investigate why that was or what it was but he never so i assumed he already knew.

 

The thing is about the shapes n sizes is that out of the our groups the majority lied in one quadrant and the rest in a second quadrant leaving me in my own section alone and another empty so if thats what he was trying to prove that there is a lot of variety in people and were all different well he was nt quite succeful lol

 

I know that when they picked the name that it was only in good fun but my observation was that when people could nt remember the adjective in front of the persons name they would most probally fill it with a relevant word in terms of there own oppinions so although i think they did nt quite understand that by assigning that adjective to me in good fun they are subtly hinting on the thoughts about me which in there own words seemed to be "mental"

 

of course i could just be paranoid and looking too far into things

 

Sorry for the short reply i have to run to work

 

Thanks Michael

[Lyndalou]

I'm glad you're feeling better Sometimes a new day means a new perspective on things

 

It's difficult to know what your lecturer knows or doesn't know without asking him. That's the problem with second-guessing - it relies on guessing!

 

I hope that things continue to improve and try not to try too hard!

[Fourthdimension]

Thank you Lynda i appriciate it x

[darkshine]

In the past some people have called me mental and meant it as a good thing for some reason

[Fourthdimension]

In the past some people have called me mental and meant it as a good thing for some reason

Thanks Darkshine i dont think it was intended yo upset me when they said it nor was it to express their feelings towards me but as they said it particularly the person and the reaction of the people on my table i could see they felt uncomfy been around me and instead of looking at me in a friendly way it was more of a glare of observation like i was an animal or something different than them

 

however some of the group have became more friendly with me but its mainly only because i offer my help to them in class and so they befriend me because of that but i guess maybe thats the way friendships develop one action is exchanged for social reward and then the other person offers their friendship as a result which is social action so that in return they can get a social reward of the first persons actions to be repeated if that makes sense

 

like for example :

 

person A: offers informative help on a piece of work that person B was struggling with and as a result person b feels more at ease with person A and finds it rewarding that person A is helping them so they offer social rewards in form of acceptance for person A

 

As a result person A repeats the action in order to get the social reinforcement once again and then person b unconcisuously starts to realise the pattern that the more they befriend person a the more help person a offers

 

and person a undertsand s the more help they offer person b the more person b will befriend them

 

and as a result person a becomes more relaxed and feels like they are starting to fit in which makes their behaviour look less odd

 

i could keep going but it will end up miles long so i ll leave it at that lol

 

Thanks Darkshine x

[darkshine]

I'd abandon the help line of thinking if I were you - I'm not saying you shouldn't help people cuz that's something that is nice to do - but if you start to think that is what is required you'll fall into a similar trap I do - where you help people all the time and then feel resentful because they don't hep back or pressured cuz they do all the taking and you do all the giving.

 

Helping is a good start but I believe the next step is to find common ground in the form of conversation... this is problematic for me because mostly people drone on a pile of sh1te that I aint interested in so I have to pretend - starting off the negative experience again because I feel like it's all wrong and meaningless - but I have to do it or become socially isolated.

 

Anyway - this sums it up for me:

 

x1000000

Edited September 30, 2011 by darkshine

[Fourthdimension]

I'd abandon the help line of thinking if I were you - I'm not saying you shouldn't help people cuz that's something that is nice to do - but if you start to think that is what is required you'll fall into a similar trap I do - where you help people all the time and then feel resentful because they don't hep back or pressured cuz they do all the taking and you do all the giving.

 

Helping is a good start but I believe the next step is to find common ground in the form of conversation... this is problematic for me because mostly people drone on a pile of sh1te that I aint interested in so I have to pretend - starting off the negative experience again because I feel like it's all wrong and meaningless - but I have to do it or become socially isolated.

 

Anyway - this sums it up for me:

 

x1000000

 

Your right thats why what i have learned to do (i dont know wether its right or not) but i just offer my help once and then ignore them and put my head in a book and then i ll observe the person and wait until there stuck and they have been thinking of a solution for a while then i ll offer my help again and then just totally ignore them and back into the book and then the next time they get stuck they will wait for my help but i wont give it so they ll keep waiting in expectation until they realise am not gonna give it so they then try to engage in convo

maybe making a compliment in my direction or starting a random convo to disquise that really there trying to ask for help

this usually leads to the person realising that unless they attempt to engage in convo with me i wont offer any help unless i am their friend

this will then lead them to ask questions about me as they will stop seeing me as strange and start seeing me as kinda "different, eccentric"

so there curiosity will make them ask questions about me

and if its one thing am good at its talking about myself because i never know when to shut up i just talk about my interests and somewhere along there investigation and my observation we ll find a common interest that can be used as a foundation

 

last year until i quit college because of paranoia i found i had made some friends who stopped looking at me as strange and started to accept me

[Fourthdimension]

p.s . i know what you mean about the pile of sh1te they talk about

 

i mean i bet they look at us and think "why are they thinking about philophical questions that can never be validated they see it as pointless

 

but then were looking back through the mirrow and thinking "why is the person so interested in foot ball or make-up or body building when in the end its not significant to my exsistince and is meaningless"

 

haha life is crazy

[darkshine]

p.s . i know what you mean about the pile of sh1te they talk about

 

i mean i bet they look at us and think "why are they thinking about philophical questions that can never be validated they see it as pointless

 

but then were looking back through the mirrow and thinking "why is the person so interested in foot ball or make-up or body building when in the end its not significant to my exsistince and is meaningless"

 

haha life is crazy

You hit the metaphorical nail on the head there

 

I think the other hardest thing to do - like - when you say you ignore them again - is for you to try and start the conversation too sometimes - like asking what they think about the thing you helped them with, or the course you are doing together, or their other interests like "so what do you like doing when you aren't doing this?" or "what made you decide to do this course?" and then they'll ask you something similar maybe...

 

I dunno though - it's hard to have that interest when your head is over-analysing every little thing and a lot of their heads seem to be empty or full of rubbish lol maybe it's learning the art of "faking it"?

[bid]

Hi FD,

 

Just to go back to your point about stating you thought you had AS on a form, and then feeling this was disregarded...

 

Rightly or wrongly, I'm afraid that this will most likely happen until you can either say you have been referred for assessment or that you have a formal dx. Even then, I have had the experience in A&E of being quizzed about who diagnosed me (I have an NHS dx).

 

I can't remember whether you have started the assessment process, but it really is the only way to be taken more seriously I'm afraid. To be honest, I think at college you would have a more positive response if you briefly outlined your specific difficulties rather than saying you think you have AS.

 

Bid

Edited September 30, 2011 by bid

[Fourthdimension]

@Darkshine- your right i agree that i should try to idle chat with them but i just find it really uninteresting and i run out of things to say and i can tell they think that i think its boring haha

 

hehe am good at "faking it"

 

@Bid - Your right it is hard to be taken serious and yeah i am meeting with a concillor at the minute but i dont think i done the right thing by telling my teacher about AS and your right i think it does sound better if i just state my diffuclties rather than mention AS but i suppose i can fake most of the social interaction part its just the anxiety i cant fake lol

 

Thanks both of you for the advice

[Mumble]

its just the anxiety i cant fake lol

There's a long list of anxiety symptoms here. That might help you, though I'm not sure why you would want to fake anxiety?

[darkshine]

@Darkshine- your right i agree that i should try to idle chat with them but i just find it really uninteresting and i run out of things to say and i can tell they think that i think its boring haha

 

hehe am good at "faking it"

Some people say that the more you do something the easier it will get (re: communication) - seems true for some things but I find it to be weird because it simultaneously is and isn't.

[Fourthdimension]

Thank you Mumble and lol am not faking anxiety what i mean is that sometimes i get so anxious i cant get out of bed and i cant fake or pretend that its not there because it is there no matter how much i pretend its not

 

I think i can just fake the socialising part because i grew up in a house were my brothers and sisters would always have their friends around as i hid in the room and sometimes i would have to appear to go get food or somthing and bump into their friends so had to pretnd to be social haha

 

What do you find the worst about social interaction Darkshine? because i think mine is that i worry too much what the other person is thinking and it it maks me really anxious

 

[darkshine]

Thank you Mumble and lol am not faking anxiety what i mean is that sometimes i get so anxious i cant get out of bed and What do you find the worst about social interaction Darkshine? because i think mine is that i worry too much what the other person is thinking and it it maks me really anxious

The worst part? Jeez I dunno - it's all the worst part to me unless it is someone I am very comfortable with and there aren't/haven't been many people who fit that category!

 

But with people who I see in a purely "social" context - such as a classroom or family gathering for example - it's pretty much the whole deal - I don't like people looking at me, I don't like what they might think or what I do think, I hate their eyes 99% of the time, I don't like the things they say, I don't like their noise or the things they do, I don't like how I can't talk sometimes and how I can't say what I think barely ever, I don't like how everyone thinks I'm being funny when I'm not, or how nobody understands me - it goes on and on really...

 

Of course I'm talking in general and there are other aspects - but these are some of my main issues - and in addition, although I have used the phrase "don't like" this doesn't really encapsulate my thoughts about it - it just saves words so I don't write war and peace

[Fourthdimension]

The worst part? Jeez I dunno - it's all the worst part to me unless it is someone I am very comfortable with and there aren't/haven't been many people who fit that category!

 

But with people who I see in a purely "social" context - such as a classroom or family gathering for example - it's pretty much the whole deal - I don't like people looking at me, I don't like what they might think or what I do think, I hate their eyes 99% of the time, I don't like the things they say, I don't like their noise or the things they do, I don't like how I can't talk sometimes and how I can't say what I think barely ever, I don't like how everyone thinks I'm being funny when I'm not, or how nobody understands me - it goes on and on really...

 

Of course I'm talking in general and there are other aspects - but these are some of my main issues - and in addition, although I have used the phrase "don't like" this doesn't really encapsulate my thoughts about it - it just saves words so I don't write war and peace

I understand what you mean what is the root cause of this do you think? th errors of attribution ? negative social reinforcement? nurture or nature? because i can relate to all of what you say just at a lesser extent .i dont think people really effect me much as i hardly interact with many people and when i do its just forced social action its not like its a genuine convo when your talking to the guy next to to you about some football match that you dont really care about at all and the same with people if their proximity is functionally different than mine i wont really care about their personal oppinions because the difference between both people is just 2 very different personalities and so 2 different oppinions and thats why the oppinion from one does nt really hold any relevance too the other because its two different constructs if you know what am saying

 

lol am probally not making sense cause am drunk ) sorry

[darkshine]

I understand what you mean what is the root cause of this do you think? th errors of attribution ? negative social reinforcement? nurture or nature? because i can relate to all of what you say just at a lesser extent .i dont think people really effect me much as i hardly interact with many people and when i do its just forced social action its not like its a genuine convo when your talking to the guy next to to you about some football match that you dont really care about at all and the same with people if their proximity is functionally different than mine i wont really care about their personal oppinions because the difference between both people is just 2 very different personalities and so 2 different oppinions and thats why the oppinion from one does nt really hold any relevance too the other because its two different constructs if you know what am saying

 

lol am probally not making sense cause am drunk ) sorry

My brain has just exploded

 

Maybe some people are more receptive to it... maybe it's to do with self-awareness... personal constructs could be part of it I guess or fundamental attribution errors.... and I wouldn't write off negative social reinforcement either...

 

As for nature and nurture - too hard to discuss without turning this into something really long and personal lol and we'll get moaned at again

 

In some ways I've been able to see it like you - but the more self-awareness I've had the worse things have got, when I was oblivious to people thinking things they bothered me less, but as I started seeing myself more it bothered me more... maybe theory of mind is the problem lol maybe I'm trying too hard to imagine what people based on my self-perception.

 

So are you hungover then?

[Fourthdimension]

Haha i was nt hung over then but i am now for some add reason i became really sensitive to light last night when i was intoxicated so i had to go straight home and i can actually feel the sensitivity to light now aswell. its strange and annoying hhahah

 

I use to be like that darkshine but then when i realised that i affect people just as much as peaople affect me it changed my way of thinking about people

 

How you been lately?

 

I have been meaning to post in your topic

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/Index.php?/topic/27297-effects-and-impacts-of-aspergers-diagnosis-or-suspected-diagnosis-in-adults/

 

but i have nt had a chance yet but i ll definatly get around to doing so tomorrow or tonight

[darkshine]

Haha i was nt hung over then but i am now for some add reason i became really sensitive to light last night when i was intoxicated so i had to go straight home and i can actually feel the sensitivity to light now aswell. its strange and annoying hhahah

I've never had a hangover had light sensitivity though, when its really bad I get a migraine

 

I use to be like that darkshine but then when i realised that i affect people just as much as peaople affect me it changed my way of thinking about people

I disagree I definitely do not affect people as much as they do me - not all the time anyway cuz in the street they make me feel like *ahem* - and I know that I am not making all of 'em feel like that

 

 

How you been lately?

I've been wondering whether I should break my arm so I don't have to do my exam - I'd probably fail though (at breaking my arm) so I might as well get a grip and study more - later......

 

Regarding my other post - the more people who answer the better cuz then we might see if our experiences are similar or not - and if I'm wrong about thinking the health service is inadequately rubbish

[Fourthdimension]

haha my sister done that when she was young she asked my other sister to beat her with a branch and knock her out so she can have a day off school however my other sister done a bad job at knocking her out so much so that there was nt one bruise haha

 

Are you worried about your test? Have you learned what is required?

 

Your right the health service is rubbish

 

Why do you think you dont affect other people as much as they effect you?

 

hugs

[darkshine]

Yep definitely worried about test - nope definitely haven't learnt all that is required - and can't answer any of the practice questions (and that's with the use of books)

 

I already sort of said about feelings and other people I feel one way because of me but also cuz of them and I don't think they feel anything - but I don't know cuz I'm not them so its hard to judge

[Fourthdimension]

Yep definitely worried about test - nope definitely haven't learnt all that is required - and can't answer any of the practice questions (and that's with the use of books)

 

I already sort of said about feelings and other people I feel one way because of me but also cuz of them and I don't think they feel anything - but I don't know cuz I'm not them so its hard to judge

 

see so they could feel something lol ) I had this problem today with the woman i was mentioning in my PM . I just felt so out of place and did nt know how to interpret her actions and wether they were good or bad so i found myself muttering utterances too her like "sorry if am acting weird" and the weird thing is i think that bugged her most other wise i dont think she would have minded me Not that i was interested in her to begin with just curious

 

Have you had the test yet

[darkshine]

I guess interpretation and meaning can be not only hard to convey but also to read - just keep trying is my philosophy when I aint being depressive

 

Nope not had test yet - but wish me luck

[Fourthdimension]

I guess interpretation and meaning can be not only hard to convey but also to read - just keep trying is my philosophy when I aint being depressive

 

Nope not had test yet - but wish me luck

 

Hehe Thanks Darkshine i will

 

I got college till 9 tonight so am gonna have to sit with that patronising teacher however its good cause it gets me out the house at least

 

I wish you luck hehe ) When is your first test

[darkshine]

in a couple of days hope college went well

[Fourthdimension]

in a couple of days hope college went well

It went great Today am working till 1am haha then i need to be up for 7am for college tomorrow then awake working till 1am again haha

 

I hope your exams go very well Dont worry like you said were (Aspies) born thinkers so were just doing what we do best in a different setting

[darkshine]

It went great Today am working till 1am haha then i need to be up for 7am for college tomorrow then awake working till 1am again haha

 

I hope your exams go very well Dont worry like you said were (Aspies) born thinkers so were just doing what we do best in a different setting

No rest for the wicked eh? lol

 

Thanks mate all over and done with now thankfully - now just need to keep it together until the next one.

 

You been doing any more college experiments then?