Aspergers, ADHD or just bad behaviour?

[Luna]

My son is very bright and seems to communicate well with people, but does talk quite precisely sometimes and sounds a little pedantic. He is functioning quite well at the moment in most areas but struggles with self control when he loses a game or makes a mistake. I know I have asked this before but is this just normal child behaviour? My son takes it to the extreme. He gets really physical and hits, punches, grabs me etc. He laughs when he sees that i am not strong enough to stop him.

Afterwards he knows to say sorry and what for but he doesn't seem particularly sorry. He also doesn't see it as an issue that he talks to me disrespectfully. He acts as though he is an equal to me and even tries to parent his little sister, using phrases that I use on him to correct his behaviour. He is so intelligent, yet doesn't seem to see what is wrong with his behaviour, The fact that he thinks it's funny to wind me up and hurt me makes me think he is aware of and has control over his emotions. My son understands consequences, but they are never enough to stop him carrying out the bad behaviour at the time and this is what I can't understand - he doesn't want me to take away his computer or go and speak to his teacher, yet he can't or won't stop screaming at me or hitting me.

I would appreciate any views on this. I am still going round in circles. I have become so absorbed in the issue that I cannot see things clearly any more. Do I expect too much as a parent? Is it poor parenting or should I be concerned by my son's behaviour? The way to sum up my son is that he was practically born a stroppy teenager with his attitude and grumpy moods. At school however, he is polite and well behaved!!!

My husband seems to think that it is just because I am not strict enough as a parent. However, he also admits that there could be elements of ADHD in our son's behaviour as my husband's brother was hyperactive as a child. Please help.

Thank you

[LancsLad]

My gut reaction is if he is polite and well behaved at school then this is simply bad behaviour, but you need to find out if this is the case or whether school are covering up for him. What is he like with your partner and likewise when he is around at other peoples homes such as grandparents and friends?

 

It might be the case that he has a lot of minor autistic traits which means the pressure builds up when he feels he has to control himsel in other environments. He will need an outlet for this pressure and I suspect he might have simply found the weakest link in the chain and directs it at you Luna. There might also be the element of attacking where he finds the strongest element of unconditional love, his mother, and as such he knows that his behaviour is wrong but it is a case of damage limitation. In this respect it might not all be about your parenting skills rather you get more than your fair share of bad behaviour because of what you represent in his life rather than the skills you deploy.

 

My approach would be to explore why this frustration builds and try and look at underlying causes in the events around it rather than spending effort in trying to give it a label. Some frustration in life is inevitable, and some personalities are more susceptible to feeling this way than others. I would therfore explore other outlets for this frustration if at all possible with your son. He needs to know that his responses directed at you are not approriate and it is effecting your quality of life as such he needs to take a more balanced and mature approach but you will be there to support him.

 

Hope this helps a little.

[Luna]

Thank you that does help a bit. Regarding school, I think he genuinely does behave well, but each year at parents evening we are told he is very laid back, in his own world and lazy even though he is achieving well. Since I expressed concerns about this, the school have completely backtracked about this and say he is now fine and much more engaged.

My son's behaviour did improve quite a bit around Christmas time, after I had some support with some different behaviour management techniques - mainly planned ignoring - but since he has given up sucking his thumb (which he did practically 24/7) his behaviour has deteriorated again. Not sure if this is just a coincidence or not.

 

My son is definitely worse for me, but he does play up for my husband. It's just that my husband can physically put him in his bedroom where he eventually calms down, whereas I cannot. My son can behave quite badly for his grandparents to some degree too, especially those who he is more comfortable with.

 

I do keep trying different strategies and techniques to manage his behaviour, but nothing works very well. Distraction is often the only thing that works, but again not always. There also seems to be an element to his behaviour where he behaves badly when he is embarrassed or worried about getting something wrong.

 

Thanks again.

[LancsLad]

Luna I think there is a pattern here in who he sees as authoritorian figures and who he does not. This I suspect is very much related to his maturity levels. I think this will improve with time. It is interesting that thumb sucking was obviously a management tool he has used before and now without it he has problems. Have you thought of something like a stress ball which he can carry around with him. This has the advantage over time that it can be managed by removing it for short periods of time untill he is comfortable without it, unlike a thumb which is with him all the time.

 

I think the point is behaviour patterns often serve a purpose and we should try and understand them as much as we can and develop effective techniques so we can all lead a more balanced life. There might be autistic traits at play here in your son but at the end of the day effective management is the key in any situation. Parenting is not an easy task and we learn through trial an error a lot of the time. I think it is also very important that you work as a united team with your partner. My own partner is 5ft tall and we used to foster care some pretty big teenage boys who would intimidate most people and who could be quite aggressive. Very often children try to split a working partnership and have different sets of rules for each parent/carer. I know as a team if she had told one of the children in our care to go to their room to calm down and they refused to do so I would have asked her to give them one more warning and if needed escorted them to their room within the working constraints under which we had to opperate I might add. In such circumstances all decision no matter who made them were 'our' decisions and any action we took was 'our' action regardless of who had to deliver it. This is so important because without consistency and a united front you will have your work cut out with any child.

 

Best wishes.

[Sally44]

How old is your son?

[Luna]

He is nearly 7. I know that sounds a bit pathetic that I can't even control a 6 year old, but he is very strong and I am quite short!

I know he is still young, but I thought he would be growing out of this behaviour by now. He has definitely become more physically aggressive since giving up sucking his thumb. He went through a stage of hitting me regularly when he was about 4/5 but this did stop for a long time and he would just be verbally aggressive. Now it is back to both, with real anger, smacking, punching, throwing things. I'm hoping it will be just a phase again.

 

LancsLad, we did try a variety of stress balls to help with giving up his thumb, but he didn't take to them. He has done amazingly well to give up something that he was so dependent on, but I do still find him chewing his fingers or the sofa sometimes as a sort of distraction.

Regarding the issue of working in partnership, my husband does back me up with parenting issues, but more often than not I am on my own when dealing with the outbursts as they usually happen around teatime before my husband is home from work. The timing of his outbursts suggest that tiredness could be a factor, although they do happen at other times as well.

 

Sometimes his angry or out of control behaviour does seem to be a habit where he thinks "this is what I did last time I lost a game/I made a mistake etc so I will do the same again today". Also, certain places can trigger him off e.g. we returned to a shop where he had been playing up really badly one day. Up to this point he had been fine. However, the surroundings seemed to trigger a memory of behaving badly and so he simply repeated the behaviour of the previous time.

[Sally44]

Has your son been assessed and diagnosed?

[Luna]

No. That is the point really. I don't know whether to persue anything via the GP or just try to ride it out. I have been to the school for help and the whole process was disastrous to say the least. He behaves fine at school so they think I am just making it up! But they do say he seems in his own little world quite often.

Sometimes I think it is just me, but today, for example, he has behaved badly again and pushed me to my limits. He has spoken to me as if I am a piece of dirt. Afterwards, he realises he has behaved badly and is sort of sorry for his actions, but at the same time, he doesn't seem to understand that he should not talk to me in that way, even though he wouldn't talk to his teachers like that. He thinks I am cross because a drink has been knocked over, but I am cross because he is being rude to me or hitting me etc. He has little self-control over his emotions but then again, he is only 6.

Here I go, around in circles again.

Also, I was watching him listening to his bedtime story tonight - he just could not keep still - he was climbing all over his grandad all through the story. He will sit next to me watching a TV show that he loves and be squirming around constantly with his feet or legs. He often falls off his chair at the dinner table too.

[Sally44]

If you have concerns, then I think you should pursue them. You could ask your GP for a referal to a Developmental Paediatrician. What exactly do you think maybe the underlying issue. Do you think ASD or ADHD or something else? That route, if you took it would be via Health.

In school they also have a budget that they can use to refer children to the educational psychologist or the speech and language therapist. So it is very important that school do do that if they have concerns. The problem arises when they don't appear to have issues, or maybe are not admitting to them. You could have a talk with his class teacher. You could arrange a meeting with the school SENCO and his teacher to discuss any difficulties they maybe experiencing. You could ask the SENCO to observe him in class. You could ask them to refer your son for assessments from the EP and SALT.

 

Is he your only child?

 

One thing I wanted to comment on from your post was that you said he spoke to you as if you were dirt, and was disrespectful etc. I think that for young children they have to be taught what is respect, and how to respond appropriately. It is not inbuilt. That is where boundaries come in with rewards and sanctions etc. If he is not your only child, and you are finding that what works for your other children is not working for him, then that maybe further evidence you can state for your concerns that something is different.

 

You specifically want professionals to assess his understanding of things like social communication/interaction, his own emotions and the emotions of others, impulsiveness, distractability etc.

 

Was the "planning ignoring" tactic you used, part of some parental skills course you attended?

[Luna]

Yes, the planned ignoring was from a parent support course the school referred me to go on. It was helpful to begin with, but the rewards schemes have lost their novelty now. And believe me. I have tried A LOT of different reward schemes, incentives, routines, consequences etc etc.

 

I have another child who is younger and she can be demanding, as all children are, but I do find her responses different from those of my son. She is easier to manage but then does 'copy' elements of his bad behaviour.

I do model appropriate language for my son and get him to repeat things in a more polite manner, but of course he can only do this when he is calm. I talk to him all the time about the role of parents and children, trying to get him to understand that he is not the one in charge, when he is screaming and yelling at his little sister or telling me what to do e.g. 'I want my pudding in 20 minutes or I'm going to hit you'. Of course, I don't give it to him if he speaks like this.

The planned ignoring is a difficult one, because how can you ignore the bad behaviour if he is coming up behind you and punching/hitting you?

 

My other problem is that he can go for quite a long time behaving 'normally' so I keep on doubting whether there is an issue. At first we thought ADHD because his uncle has been diagnosed with it, but then the more we looked into it, aspergers kept on cropping up, but I'm not sure. I just feel like I need something more concrete to go on before I go to the GP. I have been keeping a diary of his behaviour for ages, although sometimes I just can't face writing in it. To go over the horrible behaviour again and again is just too depressing. It sound obvious to go to the GP, but the way I was treated by the school has scared me off.

[Sally44]

I think you really do have to be brave and go to your GP.

 

It sounds like the school have decided that it is your parenting skills that are the root of the problem at home. And you have been on a course. And that has not helped for any length of time eventhough you have continued with the approaches and advice?

 

Then the next step has to be "I have done as the school suggested, and gone on a parenting course, but it has not had any significant difference in his behaviour. I have another child and these are not issues I am experiencing with them. I feel there is something that needs to be investigated because his difficulties are not due to parenting skills. There is lots of written evidence of how children with an ASD or ADHD can behave differently in home and school."

 

You have to insist on a referal, and you have to refuse further parenting skills - otherwise you will end up attending one every time you raise concerns. Mud sticks. If they blame you, you are really making a weight for your back that could take you years to change.

 

So no more parenting skills at least until he has been referred and assessed by a multi disciplinary team of professionals. You have done your bit, now the school should do theirs.

 

Phone up your local authority and speak with the parent partnership for their advice and support. But start from the beginning that this is not a parenting issue. The reason I keep saying this is that any support for your child is going to cost them money, and they will use any way they can to stop or delay that. Sorry, but that is just how it often is. So if you allow them to place the blame onto you, they will just continue to do that.

 

I was offered a parenting course when my son refused to attend school. Thankfully I already had Clinical Psychology and CAHMS on my side which really helped.

 

When offered the parenting course I replied that maybe 5 years ago that might have been useful. But 5 years on I understand my son inside out. That I had an older daughter that was doing brilliantly at school - receiving awards for her attendance and attainment - so it would be bizarre to suggest that somehow my parenting skills were good for one child and not the other.

 

Clinical Psychology said that his different behaviour in school/home was documented in countless examples of how children with autism behave and that it was typical of a child not coping in school [eventhough his behaviour was at home].

 

Obviously this may not be the same thing in your circumstances. But there does appear to be a difference in different environments.

 

The SEN Code of Practice says that parents concerns SHOULD be listened to. So they should not fob you off.

 

Get a copy of the SEN Code of Practice from the top of the Education forum under Educational Publications.

 

Go to your GP with the diary so that you can give examples. And do write it up and keep it up to date because you need to be able to say there has been no change over 6 months, or he has deteriorated etc. If the GP asks about how he is in school say something like "I am arranging to have a meeting in school about this." Don't say "school think I am a bad parent", because that immediately puts the same doubt in the GP's mind. Ask for a referal to a multi disciplinary team that have experience of diagnosing children with ASD and ADHD.

 

You can also speak to organisations such as www.ace-ed.org.uk, www.nas.org.uk, www.ipsea.org.uk, and www.network81.org for advice.

 

But please be brave and see your GP first. You may find you get a much better response from the health route than via school.

 

Do you really think that they are not having any issues with him in school? Is he afraid of being told off or punished? Does he try to copy other kids?

[JeanneA]

Hi like Sally says you need to go to your G.P. it sounds to me like your son does have problems. You also need to be referred to CAMHS. Good luck and keep us updated. :-)

[Luna]

Thank you. I think I need to start writing in the diary again as you say. I will keep you posted.