Social Worker says School refusal is caused by parents allowing it.

[cathcart3303]

Sent email to social worker

 

Please can you be clear about what the local authority is providing for my son.

The support worker, who works with parents, is unable to provide support to my son as my sons needs are neurodevelopmental, not parental. The Paediatrician specified this last September. The issue is not parenting. My son due to his disability and medical needs could not go to school. How is this to be addressed?

Dimensions whom CAMHS identified last November as been able to help my sons neurodevelopmental needs has been ?dismissed, ?ignored by Social Services as been unsuitable to provide a service.

I am paying for Dimensions with my sons DLA 3 hours a week. If I used all my sons DLA that would only cover 6 hours a week. As the Headteacher pointed out to me from xxxx School they would use the services of Dimensions as a block of 6 hours a day for 8 weeks. As I told him my son needs a full integration plan involving all services as specified by all the professionals involved with my son. By this I mean the multi disciplinary team. What is the point of a section 17 meeting where Social Services make decisions based on finance not the child's needs?

As a school has yet to be named by Children's Services what provision is being made for my son now by social services to enable my son? Are you saying Social Services would employ the services of Dimensions to assist xxxx in accessing an education?

 

 

 

 

Reply

I am worried that you seem to feel a purely medical response is what will help xxxx. He may well have a diagnosis, and this may well be valuable in helping understand the way he is feeling, but he is at least partly in the situation he is now in as a result of the way you and H have responded to him. This is the only area where social workers have skills and knowledge that might help you and xxxx. I am trying to find the best way we can help, but I feel this is going to be very hard if we can't agree that you and H are the people most likely to be able to make a difference for xxxx.

xxxxs' situation is not unique. I have come across two boys of his age recently who refuse to go to school and stay in their rooms using
computers, and who have let their friendships go. Both these boys have had a difficult time at school, and both have been allowed to miss school by their parents for such a long time that they have found it hard to return. I think xxxx must be terribly worried about you and H after your recent health problems and I am sure this anxiety is a significant contributory factor in his present state of mind. I'd like
to know what his paediatrician would say about this.

When you agree a school place for xxxx I'd like to help you plan how to get him there. I think this would be best done with the school and following advice from an organisation that specialises in working with people with autism. We could involve support worker, or we could ask the Dimensions worker to do it as he/she has specialist training.

Let's not exchange emails about this any more. We can talk when I visit,

 

 

 

Feeling very angry and frustrated. My son has had no support or education for 20 months and its my fault. What do you reply to this?

 

[Sally44]

Do you have in writing what the Paediatrician and CAHMS have said. If you haven't get it in writing. This kind of reply is also something I was preempting when I had a meeting with Clinical Psychology and I asked them specifically in writing [and for them to respond in writing] giving me advice on how much "physical force" I should use to get my son into school. I explained that I was wrestling him into his clothes, with him taking them off. That I was force feeding him his breakfast because he refused to eat. That I was having to man handle and drag him into the taxi only for him to vomit either in the taxi or on arrival in school and be bought back home again. ClinPsych wrote to me and said that I should only use "gentle encouragement". That letter meant that no-one could accuse me of anything because gentle encouragement would never get my son back into school.

 

Social Services are not medically qualified to make the statements she is making.

 

 

If you have it reply something along the lines of.

 

"Dear xxxxxx,

 

Thank you for your letter dated xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

I am very concerned that you seem to be placing my son's school refusal onto my husband and I having "allowed" this to happen. What actually happened is that he was not coping and it is the professionals involved [or rather not involved] who have "allowed" this situation to occur.

 

Medical professionals have specifically said that the school refusal is due to [anxiety? not coping in school? school not able to meet needs/]. And they are the professionals who are suitably qualified to make these conclusions having seen my son over a substantial period of time.

 

I am tired of being passed between professionals who appear unable to address my sons needs. XXXXXX has had no education provided since xxxxxxxxxxx. He has a right to receive an education, and one that he can access and where all his needs will be identified and met.

 

I have been paying for Dimensions to come and see my son and have had to use his DLA to pay for this. I should not have to do this. These are educational needs which must be included in his Statement by law.

 

My son has been refusing school before any incidents you have mentioned.

 

I will speak with [Clinical Psychology or Paediatrician], about your letter and get advice from them.

 

We are looking for a suitable school for our son, and will name that as our parental choice to be included in his Statement."

 

Be very careful what you say at any meeting with SS. Do not agree to a parental course as being something you need. Don't answer questions that are worded "What do you want", say "It is not about what I want, it is about what my son needs" and "I am seeking advice from professionals for them to tell me what his needs are and how they can be met in school and how he can be supported to return to school." And keep batting back any question with "What do you think". Make notes of it all and type it all up and send them a copy of your notes, and send in a copy of those needs, along with her letter [and the letter you have or will get from Clinical Psychology/Paediatrician/CAHMS] which will show that professionals are not in agreeing ie. Medical professionals say it is due to ASD/Anxiety etc and SS are saying it is parental/behavioural etc. But no-one is providing anything.

 

Also remember that SS are not the ones to provide education. This main issue is between you and the Local Authority/school. That is why you have to go to an educational tribunal.

 

Social Services can carry out a Core Assessment [have they done that?]. Have they done a Carers Assessment?

[cathcart3303]

Thanks Sally,

 

I needed a rational perspective. My son is now waiting to see the neurodevelopmental team at CAMHS.

 

The social worker is carrying out the core assessment at the moment. Can't wait to get the report on that!

[Sally44]

I did have a similar response from a SW at a multi team meeting that was also attended by Clincial Psychology and the CAHMS Psychiatrist. The SW, who I had never met before and who had never even seen my son said something like "at times, all children don't want to go to school, but as parents we are the responsible adults who have to ensure that they do attend."

 

The ClinPsych and CAHMS did respond to that comment. And by then I was at a stage where I was recording every meeting on a dictaphone, because I was so fed up of everyone trying to appear to be doing something, but actually doing nothing.

 

The SW made this comment when my son had already attempted suicide. I don't think she knew this, but I made her aware of it, and how her comment was so out of step with what our situation was or what my son was experiencing. I asked her what experience she had of working with children with autism, and she had no 'specific' experience, but had received 'training'. Speaks volumes!

 

I also made it clear for the record that she had not had any contact with me or our son. And when I asked her what input SS would have she said that she was only attending the meeting to ensure that there were no safeguarding issues, and as it was clear that that was the case that her department would not have any further involvement!

 

At the end of the day an ASD is a 'medical' diagnosis. So you need the medical experts advice. And I definately made them be very specific with their advice to me, and always asked them in writing and asked them to send their reply in writing, so that whenever anyone from SS or 'education' said something, or asked me something I could refer them to what the medical advice had been.

 

So, as an example, if I was asked "when are YOU going to return your son to school" I would respond with "my son is currently under Clincial Psychology and CAHMS who have stated in their letter dated xxxxx that my son is currently too unwell to attend school due to anxiety relating to his ASD. They have also advised me that I am only to use gentle encouragement to get him to comply. In the meantime can you please inform me what education you will be providing for my son whilst he is medically unfit to attend school."

Edited August 26, 2013 by Sally44

[cathcart3303]

Went to CAMHS today and told them what social worker had said and that he was visiting. Dr said they would not be surprised if social worker did not get a punch in the face when he visits. They know the social worker in question. I thought this was a bit of a drastic thing to say until this exchange of email.

 

I sent him this email:

If you need to gather information regarding completing xxxx's
assessment then I would expect you to see him. I am happy for you to
come tomorrow at 9am but it would be more beneficial to come after
midday when xxxx is up, as other professionals have done.

However I have just had this email:

I've got rather a lot on tomorrow afternoon and it is a
bit late to change my plans. Perhaps xxxx could go to bed at a
reasonable time tonight so that he is up in the morning? Please tell
him I'm coming to talk to him and would like a proper conversation.

 

I told my son and he said no.

 

My husband says this is just going to get confrontational.

 

This 'Dxxx Hxxx' obviously has no clue how to engage a child with neurodevelopmental needs.

 

What to do? I wonder if he wants this assessment to fail so he can say I tried but parents were uncooperative or lacking in parenting skills. Blame the parents??

[Sally44]

You need to get supportive evidence from "MEDICAL" professionals ie. CAHMS and anyone else. IN WRITING IN A LETTER TO YOU ANSWERING THE QUESTIONS YOU HAVE ASKED THEM.

 

So write to the psychiatrist at CAHMS, who you have already talked to about this SW and ask the questions ie. " Further to your observations of my son and our conversations can you please confirm that my sons school refusal is due to his Autistic Spectrum Disorder and Anxiety. Can you please confirm how much physical force, if any, we should use to get him to comply to our requests. Can you please detail what his needs are for inclusion in his Statement and detail what level and type of support he will need to attend any school to both get him into the school and support him whilst there. Can you please detail any specific environmental triggers there could be in the school environment ie. noise, changes of environment, changes in routine, break and lunch times and your recommendations to help and support him during those times."

 

That is the kind of thiing you need in writing. Don't get confrontational with the SW. Just keep the email and include that in your evidence. Ask her questions when she comes ie. what qualifications she has, what additional qualifications/training she has had for working with children on the autistic spectrum. How many ASD children she has on her case load. What her findings are to be included in the Statement [because his refusal is not just with you at home, it is also in school and refusal to go to school because he is not coping], and what her recommenations are in terms of hours of support and staffing arrangements. What they can provide in terms of respite, short breaks [short breaks are a legal requirement by the government on all Local Authorities to provide short breaks for children. You need a professional to get you onto this list for short breaks. It doesn't have to be SW {but social workers are also local authority employees}, it can be any professional involved with your son, but SW's usually handle it.

 

Do not hit her! If she thinks it is so easy, let her get him out his bedroom to come and have the conversation with him. But definately get information on her qualifications and training on ASD as that is important. Her opinion is not going to trump any other professional. But you do need those professionals opinion in writing, otherwise all you will have is her saying it is the parents fault and nothing to counterbalance that.

[Sally44]

You are being co-operative by allowing her into your house to see your son. If your son refuses you cannot do anything about that. You cannot drag him down the stairs, that is abuse.

[Sally44]

I forgot to ask. Is your son taking any medication prescribed by CAHMS.

[cathcart3303]

When I spoke to neurodevelopmental team at CAMHS they have suggested that Sertraline would be better than Fluoxetine that the Psychiatrist prescribed and my son would not take. They are going to write to my son inviting him to attend an appointment in 2 weeks time to discuss this. In the mean time they have given me different leaflets to give to my son information on the medication. They are writing to children's services stating what their involvement is.

 

The social worker came today and said exactly what I thought he would say that it was up to us as parents to make son come out of his room and engage. When I asked how I was to get him out of the bed he had no suggestions. We should get our son to engage as part of the family. I told him he was doing this last year but I asked for support and he has had no education and needs routine. He said he would not send support worker to look at back of sons head.

 

He totally dismissed his Autism, Depression and Anxiety and told me as he had not seen my son he could not say he was depressed. I told him my son has a diagnosis from CAMHS of Depression as per psychiatric letter and asked what support was he providing.

 

He is coming back next week in the afternoon.

 

It was not me whom CAMHS were suggesting would hit the social worker but my son. I had no intention of hitting anyone. If my son comes down next week and the social worker starts bullying him he is more likely to withdraw than hit out. This is the attitude the social workers email suggested to me.

 

They totally pass over education to that department. I have said that my son needs it written in his statement how he is to access his education and how this is going to happen.

 

I feel he is sneaking round speaking to professionals as if to divide and conquer to come to his conclusion rather than the consensus. Why would this not be discussed at the Section 17 meeting next week? It appears that none of the professionals have been formally invited and are not able to make it at short notice.

 

Educational placement is still in the air. Panel meeting next week. I have specified one school that can meet sons needs. They rang yesterday and asked me to look at another BESD school. Have sent in tribunal appeal but not heard yet. Better chase that up next Monday as will be 10 working days.

[Sally44]

Okay. Don't say anything at this meeting about health professionals not being invited, or being invited too late. But this is a major piece of evidence you will use at an appeal. The Panel will be very interested to see what meetings there have been and who attended and what advice was given and what has been put in place.

 

A friend of mine had a tribunal about her son. He had been under CAHMS for about 5 years. One of the Tribunal Panels members asked her how many multi disciplinary team meetings there had been about her son and had CAHMS attended. She told the Panel there had been 2 meetings and no one from CAHMS had been invited. And this was their major argument for the independent school placement they were seeking ie. that everyone was on site [teachers and therapy team] and that they did liaise with outside agencies such as CAHMS. My son goes to this same school. He sees a child psycotherapist who is employed by the school.

 

As your son has been prescribed medication by CAHMS for anxiety and depression that must be in the Statement [those diagnoses], and the SW cannot put his behaviour down to poor parenting. It is due to the diagnoses, and the fact that he has been prescribed medication proves there is this 'need' which needs 'supporting' and which needs 'provision' in 'a suitable educational environment'. He simply may not be mainstream material.

 

At this Panel meeting don't let them get you talking about what you want. Keep putting it back into their court ie. "It is not about what we want, it is about what our son's needs are and you are the professionals that should be telling us what those needs are, and how each of those needs will be met in school in terms of hours and staffing arrangements for that information to be included in his Statement."

 

And it also works in your favour if there is a lack of agreement, lack of communication, nothing happens, and your son is passed around like a hot potatoe while everyone appears to be doing something, but actually nothing is happening.

 

What school do you think he could attend, if any. And what kind of school is it.

 

Who rang and asked you to look at another BESD school, the LA or your parental choice of school?

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sally44

[Sally44]

And I would also get in writing to the SW his comment about not sending a support worker to look at the back of his head.

 

And you want to include a comment such as

 

"My understanding from our meeting on xx/xx/xx is that you are not prepared to send a support worker as you said "I am not sending a support worker to look at the back of his head".

 

This appears to mean that you do not have anyone qualified to work with my son and the severe and complex diagnoses he has. And that as you do not have anyone suitably qualified, you are happy for nothing to be done and for your department to have zero involvement eventhough he is a vulnerable child who will grow up into a vulnerable adult who will always need support from social services. That is not meeting his needs, that is leaving him to deteriorate even further. We have had xx months of zero involvement by anyone regarding my son. He has not received any education. He has no social interaction with anyone. He has a diagnosis of depression and anxiety and that will continue and even deteriorate further if no-one is able to do anything. This is all having a profound effect on his future life choices and is causing him to lose skills with the gap widening between him and his peers. He is obviously very self aware and has not been coping for a very long time. This has put him under a chronic level of stress and he simply cannot take it anymore. That is why he is reacting as he does."

[Sally44]

I would also suggest that any placement you are looking at to consider boarding, if they offer that service. As he will need continuity, and may benefit from the 24/7 curriculum they would provide. He could come home at weekends and during holidays. But you would probably need a report to recommend this.

 

Here is a link about Short Breaks and how all local authorities [meaning SS] must provide them. http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/send/a0075231/short-breaks

 

It doesn't have to be a group thing. It can be a support worker 1:1 with your son doing things that he likes. And that could start with maybe playing computer games together in the house, and gradually working up to something he would like to do, like go to the cinema.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Sally44

[cathcart3303]

Sorry I did not make it clear. It is the LA whom asked me to look at the BESD school. The Asperger specific special school have responded to LA they can meet sons needs but have not assessed yet.

 

What you have suggested Sally as Short Breaks the Social Worker told me would be a waste of a support worker for my son. I have taped our conversation so will go over it.

[Sally44]

In some ways what the SW is saying is actually helping your case. You need to get this typed up, and send in the tape as well. But to say in your Case Statement for the Tribunal that the Social Worker is stating that they cannot help your son as he needs are too severe and they do not have any suitably qualified to meet his needs [which is what they are saying ie. no point with short breaks as he cannot access it currently ie. his needs are too great, anxiety too severe etc]. So what he needs is a school that does have experienced and qualified staff and where he will be in a suitable peer group and where his difficulties are known and addressed.

 

Does your choice of school pay for anyone such as a psychologist, or child psychotherapist? Ie. ask them what they would do to address his anxiety if he went to that school. You also need him to attend for a trial period and for them to offer him a place in writing.

 

If the school currently do not have anyone going in for mental health issues, then you can ask the school to get a quote for someone to go in. Because what you can prove is that your child has this need, but that it is not being met via the NHS or SS or Education. And to meet this need your son needs weekly therapy from a child psychologist or child psychtherapist. Get the quote and submit that as part of your evidence, and so the Statement would fund his placement at your choice of school PLUS the cost of psychology/psychotherapy. Make sure you get at least one quote, and make sure you submit it.

 

And if at the Tribunal, or before, the LA states that this is a 'medical' need and not an educational one, you can state that without this therapy for his anxiety he cannot access education at all [either via lessons or social interaction], and therefore it is an educational need. The Tribunal Panel agreed with that at our appeal.

 

I was worried that the Tribunal would think the costs too great for my sons needs ie. independent school PLUS specialist dyslexia teacher. But actually needed that specialist teaching is part of the reasons we won the placement. The LA could not provide it and would have to have bought it in, and the Tribunal Panel agreed that he would never go back to his primary school, and there was no point even attempting it as it was certain he would not cope in a mainstream secondary, if he failed to cope in a mainstream primary.

 

So make sure you do that with your choice of school. You don't need to tell the LA that you are getting quotes. They will see if as part of the Bundle of Documents that get sent to them for the Tribunal. And that gives them less time to try to get a counter quote for the same provision. So remember to try to keep the LA in the dark as much as possible. You just need all your evidence to go to SEND, with a copy to the LA, but don't highlight things to them and in that way they often do not notice major issues.

 

Go to the school that the LA suggested. You need the Panel to know that you have been cooperative. And make sure you ask all the questions that prove it is not suitable for your child. Such as the qualifications of the Staff. The size of the classrooms. Do they use teaching methods such as TEACCH, which is suitable for them with autism. What percentage of the children have autism, what percentage of the children have a speech and language disorder, what percentage of the children have a diagnosis of Anxiety. What is the criteria for the school. What kind of diagnosis do the current children have. What is the recognised 'cause' of their emotional and social behaviour is it neglect, Social Disorders etc. What life skills do they teach. Do they have a speech therapist and occupational therapist employed on site [because you will be arguing that your son needs that therapy]. etc. What qualifications will the children take, and what percentage take them, and what levels do they achieve. What college do they feed into.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Sally44

[Sally44]

When my son went for his trial period in school, I agreed with my son and the school that I would stay and sit at the back of the classroom until my son said it was okay for me to leave. And I submitted this as evidence [and the school also wrote a report about his anxiety]. You definately need him in for 3 days, and if his anxiety is so high that he needs the reassurance of you being in the class [albeit at the back of the classroom], then that is further evidence of how severe his anxiety is.

 

What your choice of school must do and provide for a tribunal is a clear programme of how they would reintegrate him into school. My own son started with just two afternoons a week, and initially I waited in school, so that if he became too upset and needed to just see that I was in the school he could. My son's anxiety was so severe because he had had years of no-one listening to what he was saying about not being able to cope anymore. By us structuring it and acting on what he said, and even building in extra breaks without him even asking [because sometimes he became overwhelmed without even being able to communicate that], his trust in the school staff started to increase.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Sally44

[cathcart3303]

Now in November and asked SW for copy of Core Assessment which he was writing up last week. The reply was 'something else came up so its not done'. No further explanation about when it would be. Now 4 or 5 months. He did tell me as I had not identified any needs there were no needs identified. Absolutely speechless as he has dismissed all my suggestions.

 

Same day SW cancelled child in need meeting despite me writing to say I wanted it to take place. He said he had the wrong day for his hospital apt. Words cannot describe my feelings.

 

This is a child out of education for 23 months with no support.

 

Yet another letter of complaint (which appear to go ignored). Time to go back to LGO. Need judicial review but cannot afford that justice.

 

Absolutely fed up.

[eccentriclady]

I am not able to comment on much of what has been said, as my children are now adults, the system seems to have changed since my time. But having dealt with social services and education, then later worked for social services for a short period of time, I do know something of how the system works.

 

There are procedures and protocol that these agencies are bound by law to follow, guidelines state that if a is diagnosed with xyz, or deemed to be in need of a service because of abc, once the assessments and paperwork has been completed the agencies are legally bound to provide funding to cover these situations.

 

In practice it doesn't work like this at all, due to funding issues. The agencies although obliged to provide whatever is deemed necessary will do all they can to avoid responsibility to find the funding.

 

I have had personal experience of this situation, it took me years to get tripartite (I think that was the term used) funding to access a therapeutic community placement for my son, the home situation was dreadful and he was in desperate need. The whole family suffered hugely because of my sons problems.

 

Like you, I started to process expecting procedure to be followed and then to be able to access the help needed, but each time I won a fight with the departments, I expected something to be provided, it wasn't. This went on for 7 and a half years during most of which my son did not regularly attend school.

 

By the time I got a solicitor involved, it was too late, we got the funding, to discover that at 13 and a half, my son was not eligible to attend a therapeutic community, my next step was to have him put in a secure unit on welfare grounds, which in the long term did help, it also almost destroyed our relationship. Then, when I felt he had learnt a lesson, he was released, social services used the funding I had fought so hard for, (which in my mind was for intensive medical therapy,) to fund a placement for him in a specialist childrens home to contain his behaviour!

 

I know we had different problems, totally different situation for us, but if I could go back and do it again, I would have involved my mp. once you do this, all of the agencies jump! they are then answerable to someone in authority, they are forced to follow the letter of the law, to either provide the recommended treatment or have a really valid explanation as to why they are not following legal procedure.

 

It would be very sad if you have the experiences we had, which was a constant fight, just when I thought I had won, (eg a statement of education should provide extra help, it didn't) a spanner would be thrown in the works. this went on for many years. My son is 25 now, although he is much more able to cope than specialists predicted, he doesn't have a life, he still has problems with perception, personal responsibility etc. It breaks my heart and I would hate for any parent to trust that the agencies will provide what is needed, only to discover when damage is irreversible (eg lack of education) that there was more they could have done.

 

If I have misread anything you posted and this isn't relevant, please remember I have my own issues of comprehension etc,

[cathcart3303]

Thanks Eccentric lady for your input.

 

I decided the other day to write to the LGO to follow due process as that is what I told Director of Children's Services. My MP is aware and has written 2 letters for me. I have now sent him a copy of my complaint and asked him if he has had a response from Mr Timpson SEN minister and to raise this issue in parliament. Yes it is a constant fight but mine has only been 3 years.

 

I think authority will string it out until my son is old enough to leave education. Have tribunal in Jan and quite frankly apart from asking Asperger specific centre to undertake assessment have done nothing. I asked the centre if they had been asked to produce a report. They said not. But my son needs CAMHS, OT, social services and school to work together which they cannot. God knows how the new plans to replace statements are going to work!

[Sally44]

They never do work together. That is why if you can afford to get independent reports they are better and are usually the most up to date, or even the only reports done. And remember that the SEND Panel has to go with the evidence they have. So for the LA and NHS not to produce reports means they do not produce the evidence you need. You cannot ask for a need to be supported if the LA and NHS have not identified it as a need.

 

Have you put requests to each of them to carry out standardised assessments? Don't ask them to work together, because it is often the very lack of that that allows the Panel to Decide in favour of the parental choice of school where all those professionals are employed on site, and therefore do work together.

 

If the Asperger specific centre is going to undertake assessments they must be writing a report of their findings and recommendations?