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Charlie C

Supported Living and new policies. Now less choice.

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I live in Supported Living and since the 1st of April the support company have brought in policies that support staff aren't allowed to eat out with tenants and that they have to pay for their own food meaning tenants can't buy food for staff. I think this is detrimentally and has an effect on the choice tenants have because when a support worker can't afford to eat out they are less inclined to support the tenant to eat out meaning less choice. The complex manager said it's safeguarding those who lack capacity but I think they're cracking a nut with a sledgehammer because I have capacity so I'm being penalised because of this company wide policy.

 

Do you know if other company's have brought similar policies out?

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I was only allowed to buy support workers drinks or meals with prior permission in exceptional circumstances. When one of my support workers was leaving the company let me take a support worker out.

 

One way around this is using costa points of the free drink at waitrose cards. Also 2 for 1 deals.

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The complex manager said it's safeguarding those who lack capacity

 

Is the manager suggesting that you lack capacity?

 

If there have been financial abuse cases within the company they should report such to the Care Quality Commision (CQC) but should not deny or deprive people of reasonable support requested. Some may class such refusal as abuse.

There are occasionally staff who take advantage, they are an extreme minority and a good company should spot them early.

You nor anyone else should suffer / be deprived of social support because of such internal issues.

 

You may also phone the care quality commission (CQC) anonymously to discuss if you feel deprived of support or have service concerns.

Tel: CQC - 03000 616 161

My understanding (which may be wrong) is that the care component within benefits is to contribute to additional care expenses such as the one you mention, or travel if mobility.

Personally, I think there are ethical issues in how care components are used or not used sometimes.

Unless the complex manager is providing some petty cash/expenses system for support workers I would say the person is insufficiently knowledgeable and too inexperienced to fulfil their role..

Safeguarding and denying support are two different issues. Its easily possible for any company that cares to ensure that no financial abuse is going on by prudent monitoring, personal knowledge and oversight. The company needs to give a ###### for this to happen.

The general rule for support workers (often on minimum wage) is that they should not be personally out of pocket due to commencing normal duties requested of them.

Ask for a copy of their policy on the matter, but be aware their policy is a guide only, has no legal or contractual validity and that policies are routinely breached by managers and above.

They should also have followed a period of consultation with staff before altering a contractual (established practice) issue. If they have not done this there is cause for employee grievance. ACAS (0300 123 1100) can advise any concerned staff members while preserving anonymity if required.

The CQC will / should advise you if you feel its detrimental to your service - (or they may pass the buck to the county council)

If you are finding your support company hard to deal with or awkward just google advocacy services in your area - An advocate should support you to challenge the company efficiently without getting personally involved

Edited by jack schitt

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Jack Schitt. ....

 

I perviously had an appointee to manage my finances because I have a severe Bipolar episode some 4 years ago and it was suggested to me that it would be beneficial to have an appointee manage my money which at the time I agreed too. It took 9 months to get that annulled beginning to end and in December 2015 I seen a consultant psychologist from the learning disability team and concluded I have capacity with regards to my finances when I'm well but not when I become psychotic, just to give a little context. So there is no doubt I have capacity.

 

I think with regards to me having capacity I should have the right to purchase my support staff meals because otherwise they aren't going to want to eat out with me knowing they have to fork out of their own pocket and this is going to have adverse effects on my and my social inclusion.

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Charlie,you clearly do have capacity. Apart from what I stated above the only other things I can suggest is that you also research 'direct payments' which enable you to choose who you fund to provide your support or a portion of support. I think your general reaction to the policy change was absolutely correct..

It is something worth challenging if you can do it without detriment to your health. Bear in mind and don't be afraid to use advocacy services as they will spread the load and provide focus ... also Citizens Advice Bureau may help.

The company certainly can support you safely socially if they wish and have provided no reasonable reason for refusing to support you in a way that has become 'accepted practice' already.

If the company won't accept your view and carry on supporting you socially I honestly would at least phone the CQC for your own clarification.

Its difficult when you feel dependant on the support of an agency and they are not performing to what you feel to be a reasonable standard

You must always put your good health and well being first and foremost.

Care companies are increasingly run by people who do not care and have poor moral values. I know this because I have been working in care at various levels a long time and have strong feelings about negative, dishonest and morally lacking care practices I see.

I'd love to know who your care provider is if you feel able to PM me their details ... but understand completely should you not wish to.

Good luck in getting the individually tailored support you desire

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You won't be able to overturn the decision it's the same in all care agencies. It is wrong to buy a support worker meals because it is seen that the support worker is taking advantage of you. Also it is crossing boundaries with the support worker.

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Trekster, its not the same in all care agencies at all you are simply completely wrong.

When I started many years ago, expenses incurred during work were claimed via petty cash. There was a meal allowance which contributed to meals rather than paid for in full but additional transport costs and entry fees were paid in full. My understanding is this was related to the contributions of some of the care component to the company to accommodate this. Somewhere along the line this changed and the tenant funded additional costs from the care component.

 

I resent and am offended by your suggestion that a support worker (ie: me) is taking advantage if they indirectly accept traceable and recorded expenses from a tenant they support. This is set up with full county council and the care quality commission knowledge and use.

TBH I hate the arrangement. I don't want to frequent some of the places I have to during work let alone pay out of my pocket to do so. I do so to support the person to access such places.

My idea of a meal out is the pound bakery in the high street as that is within my means and my idea of a drink is water. Why should I have to pay to eat at expensive eating establishments that I would never willingly frequent outside of work. At the end of the day a support worker on minimum wage can be on duty for 24 hr shifts and have to go to these establishments at the request of the service user, not the other way round.

I feel you need to rethink your view point or even contact the CQC , county councils, government yourself to see if your view is shared by those agencies that fund the support and benefit system via taxation.

 

Just why do you think some people get paid care components?

Edited by trekster

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The support company I use used to have a petty cash kitty for staff meals but some workers took advantage of it and it was stopped. I think it's very unfair that my staff aren't allowed to eat out with me and have to provide for there own meals and I'm the not the only one who has capacity that thinks that same with drinks, we're not allowed to buy drinks either.

 

I know at my Wednesday Mencap group I attend we're allowed to buy staff food and drinks as well as the NHS LD day centre but that is rare because they have their own petty cash.

Edited by Charlie C

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I think your care company, or individuals within, have made an error of judgement. What is the money they receive that was used for petty cash now used for?

Cleaning stuff for the office I believe.

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I have a degree in autism and have looked up safeguarding policies for the groups I run in bath. I know what I'm talking about. This is the case in the former areas of Avon.

 

It is to avoid you being accused of taking advantage or having favouritism towards your clients. I neither said nor implied you had to pay for expensive meals out.

 

The care component is to pay for the support workers hours with the client.

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The care component is to pay for the support workers hours with the client

 

 

Section 117 aftercare suggests otherwise.

 

''sorry I messed your post up lol''

Edited by Charlie C

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Trekster, its clear that we could have quite a strong virulent argument about this and no doubt would do if face to face.

I stand by my viewpoint and knowledge.

I do think you are wrong and no doubt vica versa - but there is no value for either of us in pursuing this.

I hope that you may agree that we can agreeably disagree and leave it there - though if you would provide me with a local authority source to investigate further I will do so.

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Charlie c said

Section 117 aftercare suggests otherwise.

That's because you are under the nhs. Jack was asking what the dla care component is used for and I answered what it is used for in general terms.

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Trekster, its clear that we could have quite a strong virulent argument about this and no doubt would do if face to face.

I stand by my viewpoint and knowledge.

I do think you are wrong and no doubt vica versa - but there is no value for either of us in pursuing this.

I hope that you may agree that we can agreeably disagree and leave it there - though if you would provide me with a local authority source to investigate further I will do so.

As a moderator on this forum I do not engage in arguments with members.

 

There is my care agencies policy and what they have been told by their local authority.

Edited by trekster

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i have been discussing this with my key worker today. I stand corrected on all care agencies having this policy, I made a mistake. However the reason why my care agency has this policy is to guard against financial abuse. Only meals of the value of £5 and only with prior authorisation for my care agency in North Somerset.

 

I do eat out with support and warn them a few days in advance so they can eat with me if they choose. In fact when they supported me in the evenings a few years ago they did eat out with me.

Edited by trekster

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I do eat out with support and warn them a few days in advance so they can eat with me if they choose. In fact when they supported me in the evenings a few years ago they did eat out with me.

What is the alternative? Do they accompany you to the restaurant but just not eat?

 

I suppose they must organise their own mealtimes around not having to eat when they are being paid to support you so that would not be as much of a hardship as I would originally thought.

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Yes they come with me but eat beforehand. Sometimes they have a starter, other times its a buy one get one free deal so they get the free meal. Normally they chat to me about stuff. I've had support over 10 years now so am used to this situation. But I understand how confusing it was for Charlie c bring something new.

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