What do I do, take him out of school?

[Suze]

Hi some of you will be familiar with my current problems,no playground support, kicking incidents and the autism team are in next week.My son is without his LSA this week due to a holiday .Another letter has been sent in (thats 2 now).A teacher has been with him on the playground.Anyway he kicked again yesterday after he was upset at what someone said.What do I do incidents are still happening with a teacher present, if these occurances continue where will it lead.These parents talk between themselves in the playground and I wonder where this will all end.The autism team come in next week, but I wonder wether to keep him off till then , or request the school keep him in at break times.Also should I tell him what has happened, he thinks these kids are his friends, knowing their parents have complained and the serious nature of this he might start to avoid them, like I keep urging him to do................Help!

[annie]

Suze <'>

 

This is what we did when we were going through the same.

 

I saw our GP and got a letter from him saying that DS was too stressed to go to school as his needs were not being meet (both were true). Then I told the LEA what the GP had given me and sent both them and the school a copy of the letter. In your case, I would let the Autism Team have a copy too. It gave everybody a good kick up the b*m to do something as you have it in writing that your son's health is being affected by lack of support.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Annie

<'>

[loulou]

Hi Suze,

 

I agree with Annie. I think if you're going to keep him off, it should be supported by a Health Professional (ie GP).

 

I went through very similar with Kai when he was in mainstream school. He was exclude twice when he was 5 for "aggressive" incidents. What it really was is that his needs weren't being met and he couldn't cope in a mainstream school. He is now diagnosed and statemented and in a special school. He's not hit or hurt anyone there yet, so fingers crossed!

 

As for telling him, i don't think you should. If he's anything like my son, I think it may back fire and stress him out, causing more problems.

 

Good luck,

 

Loulou x

[oracle]

As the school appear to be unable to 'get it right' in the playground at the moment I to would consider keep in your son home.

 

It is always a good idea to get some back up so try the GP and see what they say? Some will play ball and some wont. If the GP wont play ball maybe you have an autism support group who will? I say this as we now write letters of support and back-up for parents who are having problems. Of course we are not professionals but at least it's a form of back-up.

 

If you do decide to keep him home then hopefully the auism team will realise just how serious things are.

 

I know just what you mean about parents standing talking and I found that the hardest thing to deal with. When they pedal inclusion at us I do not think that anyone has for one moment consired how 'excluded' a parent can be made to feel while standing in a school yard!

 

<'>

 

Carole

Edited October 5, 2005 by carole

[baddad]

Hi Suze -

This is a difficult one, I know, 'cos it's exactly what happens periodically with Ben. The school do cope with this well in the main, but there is always that sword hanging over my head about exclusion etc if the situation deteriorates.

That said, though, there are UNDOUBTEDLY kids in the school who are exhibiting similar behaviours (albeit possibly in a more sneaky/underhand sort of way), and who haven't got the kind of underlying complex issues that are relevant to your son's behaviour. The catch twenty-two is that your son's behaviours do have a label attached, and sometimes that makes it easier for schools to make a case against them if that's how the school chooses to approach it.

I can't comment on your son's situation (obviously - 'cos I don't know him!), but in ben's case the one factor that always works in his favour is that -outside of such incidents- he's regarded by other kids to be something of a character, and is fairly popular on the playground (if not always for the best reasons - certainly his gullibility is played upon quite regularly). The simple fact is that his outbursts are viewed in context, and not usually seen as malicious. The REAL bullies on the playground are avoided like the plague. Ben isn't. Sadly, the people who do make judgements are usually other parents rather than the kids themselves. It's very disheartening to see how quickly these adult prejudices can sometimes be adopted by the kids subjected to them. As far as the other parents go - Stuff 'em! The one's who talk openly to you about it deserve an explanation - and they will often be more understanding an tolerant for it. The ones who whisper behind your back really aren't worth the 'bovver'...

One other thing; while you can offer to help the school in any way you can in their efforts (supporting evidence for CAMHS/Ed Psych; Suggesting strategies; consistency of approach between home/school etc) you are not actually there to intervene: That has to be their job and their responsibility (and your son's of course, providing he is supported appropriately in coping with that responsibilty and understanding the expectations and consequences... And if they AIN't getting that support right, how can they expect him to achieve anything?).

Very, very Best

BD <'>

[Zemanski]

you could try ringing the team and explaining the situation - they may be able to talk to school before their visit and give them some interim strategies to try

 

it sounds to me like the staff may be with him but they are either not looking to get him out of the situation before it explodes or that they don't know your son's triggers and signs of stress so can't act quickly enough - Com used to get red ears just before he goes into meltdownbut it took staff a while to cotton on even after I told them, now they are quite good at spotting the subtler early signs too.

 

stay strong

 

Zemanski

[Suze]

............I was at a loss .....so I phoned the Autism team(who really are ), I suggested keeping him in at break times, picking him up at dinner, or keeping him off school till next week(when the team go in). They suggested talking again to the head(they have spoken several times over these incidents), and suggesting he stay inside at breaks.The feeling is that until the team can go in and address these issues and see Jack,it would be best if he stayed away from the playground stress and teasing. The team also plan to talk to the whole class and explain aspects of ASD/AS, I hope that once these boys have been told of my sons problems, if they continue to provoke him it will be a lot easier to come down on them harder .......ton of bricks type fashion. I have a brill GP who has personal experience of Autism, but my son does,nt apppear to be stressed as such, just more angry. .....................shall post back after school pick up later.................. <'> Thanks guys.Suzex.

[alibaly]

I'm very sorry this is happening to your son.

 

 

I was at school with a girl that was kept in at playtime etc for some reason that we were never made aware of, and in all honesty it just made her more of a target for those who were that way inclined. I think doing this will make him stick out like a sore thumb even more but if he was kept at home for a wee while it could be put down to anything until everything is sorted.

[phasmid]

............I was  at a loss .....so I phoned the Autism team(who really are  ), I suggested keeping him in at break times, picking him up at dinner, or keeping him off school till next week(when the team go in). They suggested talking again to the head(they have spoken several times over these incidents), and suggesting he stay inside at breaks.The feeling is that until the team can go in and address these issues and see Jack,it would be best if he stayed away from the playground stress and teasing. The team also plan to talk to the whole class and explain aspects  of ASD/AS, I hope that once these boys have been told of my sons problems, if they continue to provoke him it will be a lot easier to come down on them harder .......ton of bricks type fashion. I have a brill GP who has personal experience of Autism, but my son does,nt apppear to be stressed as such, just more angry. .....................shall post back after school pick up later.................. <'> Thanks guys.Suzex.

I phoned the Autism team(who really are  ), I suggested keeping him in at break times, picking him up at dinner, or keeping him off school till next week(when the team go in). They suggested talking again to the head(they have spoken several times over these incidents), and suggesting he stay inside at breaks.

[phasmid]

That went a bit wrong!

 

First quote: I am suprised they suggested keeping him in as this is a form of exclusion due to his disability which is illegal! That said it is common sense at least to avoid the problem in the meantime.

 

Second quote: Wish phas jr's school had let us do this - I think it would have helped a lot.

 

Then, if all else fails - keep him off with a cold until after theyv'e been in.

[elaine1]

I would def ask the school to keep him in at break. At least you know nothing is going to happen then till the autism team go in.

good luck with it all

[Suze]

............he kicked again today , the same child as yesterday.Had a meeting with head and class teacher suggested they keep him in......I,m desperate ,they are concerned as this requires supervision.Wish this would stop, I,m sure if I was on the playground I would be able to stop an incident.It,s not rocket science surely.Had enough ,school is cr*p!.................they seem to think they have handled his needs o.k. and could,nt have avoided this sort of incident occuring.

[alibaly]

what is happening to the boy who is doing the bullying, does the school have an anti bullying policy in place?

[phasmid]

Same child again? That ought to tell them something! Time to wake up and smell the coffee, thinks I.

 

They have NOT handled this situation at all, never mind well. What the hell do they think they're playing at? Suze, so much has been going on here I can't remember if it was you I suggested writing in to the head and CoG over this or not. If it was have you sent the letter and what (if any was the response) if not, you need to do this. Telling them he has clearly identified needs that must be addressed to prevent him being provoked. Put them on the spot over this. They have to ensure his safety - this isn't happening. They are allowing a known vulnerable child to be bullied - tell them that and demand they deal with it.

 

 

If not, he has a cold until after the autism team have been in.

[Suze]

.......... .........Phas it was me you told to write to governors.We spoke to head of governors on the phone and he reassured us that as the Autism team were coming in things would be sorted.I,m not the best person and feel so intimidated by this whole thing.My fear is that if we kick up a big enough stink we,ll end up pushing ourselves into removing our son from the school.My daughter also goes there and my youngest starts in sept.It feels like everything is un-ravelling.The head just does,nt seem to side with us as regards bullying, I think my sons response out does the mis-demeanor. I feel done in tonight and beaten by it.My son once said something unkind to this boy regarding his home circumstances(his parents are seperated), I was shocked and had words with him as did his teacher at the time.The head who has been there 4wks and was,nt there when this incident occured mentioned this unkind thing my son had said today, referring to it as a occurance that obviously plays a part in my sons treatment by this boy.It happened 6mnths ago and this boy was teasing him before that any how!!!!!!!!!............what do I do?, I,m scared what I,ve got to do , to get this sorted.

[phasmid]

Oh Suze... <'> <'> <'>

 

Talking on the phone is OK, but there is no record of the conversation (If you go to here you can order a device that will record phone conversations - but the other party MUST be told first). My advice right now is everything in writing when you can. This builds a solid picture of what is happening to refer back to in the future.

 

Looking at this

 

My son once said something unkind to this boy regarding his home circumstances(his parents are seperated), I was shocked and had words with him as did his teacher at the time.The head who has been there 4wks and was,nt there when this incident occured mentioned this unkind thing my son had said today, referring to it as a occurance that obviously plays a part in my sons treatment by this boy.It happened 6mnths ago and this boy was teasing him before that any how!!!!!!!

 

This is par for the course with AS! Inappropriate responses to social situations are one of the main aspects of it. I'd be interested to know what he said to him (don't put it up if you'd rather not say - I'll understand). It could well be that it was simply a truthfull but tactless remark not said with any malicous intent on your sons behalf but taken this way by the other child. This needs explaining to the school - they clearly do not know how to deal with this (AS) and need to be told.

 

If the Autism Team are due in next week it won't do him any harm to miss a few days and, in all honesty I think you could do without the stress too. You have 2 options here. Either, he has 'a cold' and isn't fit to go in OR, you send in a letter staing that they are not dealing with the situation in an appropriate manner and you wi;; therefore, be keeping him off until it is addressed. I'd go with the first option if your worried about 'stirring things'. I would still, very strongly, advise a letter to the head and CoG (as suggested on the other thread - I found it in the end, go away for a day and you lot kept posting things lol!). This clearly points out the shortcommings your son and you are having to put up with. Whats more it goes in his records and if the worst comes and they do try and exclude him it will be a vital weapon in your armour in his defence.

 

Let the ASD team go in and do what they have to do and see what comes from it. Attend if they'll let you - ask for the minutes if they won't . In fact ask for them anyway so you can see what has been suggested. I'd then make an appointment with the head and ask her, point by point by point what they are going to do to address the suggestions the AS Team have made. Once you have a clear picture of this the cold can clear up.

 

I'd also advise IPSEA too, they may be able to offer you a person to support you in person (if you see what I mean) rather than just me handing out advice on-line. I can't be there with you and I think you really need that 'extra' support right now. Hang in there. If the AS team do their job properly they will give the school a right royal roasting. Make sure they are bang up to date with all current events - tell them about the 'history' with this other child as well.

 

Hope this helps. Wish I could do more.

 

Phas

Edited October 5, 2005 by phasmid

[Suze]

Phas thank you so much, wish you came in a small pocket sized version , could really do with you in my anorak pocket when I go into school, ...........off now I feel as though I,m stewing on this and my tums doing cartwheels.

[phasmid]

Good idea...go watch the telly PC Kent is about to get his comeuppence!

[annie]

Suze/Phas,

 

We were in an identical situation a couple of years ago. Can I just suggest as well that you make notes of ANY incident involving your son, giving the schools version and your son's version. Include who said what/where/when and what punishment was given each time.

 

What we found was that no matter what my son did or said became totally irrelevent because he had been given a label. One incident involved him being rolled up in a PE mat and kicked by 6 boys, all a teacher saw was my son lashing out afterwards...........he was going to be kept in at breaktimes for a week for that one until I found out that a dinner lady had seen the whole incident and complained but was accused of lying herself by the Head boy did I have a meltdown on that one.

 

Our note-keeping proved that the school had NO understanding of Asperger's and were not prepared to listen to what he had to say either.

 

Annie

<'>

[phasmid]

Yes, very very good idea. I have told on here somewhere of a situation I observed where the AS child would have been in the wrong had I not stepped in. When the 'evidence' of other children is the only evidence they will stick together and be believed. The AS child might answer questions in a manner that incriminates themselves due to the nature of the question! Get your own version writen up ASAP after the event.

[baddad]

Hi suze -

I think one thing that's really important here is what is the schools view of these events? Do they believe your son is 'targeting' this other boy, that this other boy is goading your son in some way, or that it's just a (excuse the cliche) 'clash of personalities'? Depending on how they percieve things, the interventions, disciplines and management strategies being used could vary hugely. certainly they are NOT working, so something's going wrong somehere, ennit!

As you said earlier, it's not rocket science... you've got two objects that clash when they get together - obvious answer is to make sure they don't get together. I'd have thought it was possible to achieve that ON the playground with the existing playground supervisors, without the negative connotations of any sort of removal or disenfranchisement. If that is impractical in the long term, they should make it the objective at least until the professionals they've called for advice have had a chance to assess the situation. Anything less than that is a 'value judgement' based on what they THINK is happening rather than what has been reliably observed (and let's face it, if the current levels of observation WERE reliable, they'd be able to intervene before things reached a critical point, wouldn't they?).

L&P

BD

[alibaly]

suze, I can understand yo being worried abaout 'stirring things' but the fact you are worried abaout this indicates there is something far wrong going on here with regards to the schools attitude, at least. In view of that is it really the right place for him to be?

 

Also, if you did stir things to the extent you had to take your son out out of school it would be for the best as the school would obviously not be the best place for him.

 

hth