IS THERE A LINK BETWEEN ADHD AND AUTISTIC SPECTRUM

[rainbow queen]

as a few of you know its my 4 year old who i belive has as[not dx as yet] but has various probs and global developmental delay

but im wondering should i take my other son to gp

as im wondering if he could have adhd

noones ever really checked if he is ok-only at the 2 year check that just dose the basics

as he will not sit still

runs around

jumps and squirms over all chairs

sings and twitters on all day long

 

the thing that struck me is i took him for 2 hours to look round nursery where he starts in jan

and he was all over the place

and could not sit in the chair etc....

it was very noticable

 

do i wait till he starts nursery and see what they say??

i did tell the autistic speech therapist my concern-but she didnt really say what i should do[this was at other appointment for my 4 year old]

 

or should i start of by going my gp

 

as other son is already been and still in the ongoing process with hospital consultant and cdc,ect....

[loulou]

Hi,

 

My son was like that at three too. When he was at playgroup it really stood out that he was "different" from other children.

 

He was diagnosed with ADHD when he was 6, then ASD six months later.

 

I think it's difficult to tell at three, what is "normal" toddler behaviour and what is not. However, if you have concerns, i would seek advice now before he starts school.

 

There is a great book called "Understanding ADHD" by Dr Christopher Green, which has a chapter on ADHD in the under 5's. You can get it on Amazon.

 

Good luck,

 

Loulou x

[neda]

Hi rainbow queen.

 

Could you not speak to your health visitor regarding your wee boy, she should be able to tell you whether your concerns should be pursued.

 

My wee fella will be 4 in February and started at private nursery at 2 1/2, I think a lot of his signs were missed because he was in a group with a mix of ages from 2-4, so things he was doing were just put down to him being a boisterous, mischevious wee boy. He flooded their toilets at least twice a week because he was so obsessed with water, they just laughed it off. It was only when I put him into the local nursery for his pre school year that it became obvious. After the October break his behaviour was so severe, due to change of routine I think. I was struggling to cope when I approached the nursery who already had their own concerns. Some of nursery noted signs were that he was constantly running around, wouldn't sit down, climbing over tables and sliding off chairs to go under tables. This is only a few of them but thought they were similar to what you were mentioning.

 

Your concerns may not amount to anything and he may very well just be a happy, excitable wee boy, but at least you will have peace of mind that you have looked into it.

 

Let us know what you decide.

[lil_me]

My son has a diagnosis of ADHD and ASD. I have spoken to several psychologists, psychiatrists etc who have said they believe ADHD is another ASD. There is a book called 'The ADHD Autism Connection' which I have and found very interesting. Most symptoms and assessment criteria overlap.

[Elanor]

Hi

 

I often hear ADD and ASDs mentioned together - ADD/ADHD is sometimes described as an autistic spectrum condition, although I'm not sure how widely accepted this. ADD is also a common comorbid with Asperger's syndrome (ie it is not unusual for a child to have both conditions).

 

If you have concerns, and don't want to wait until your son is older (and perhaps the behaviours might be more pronounced) then you should get on the (probably long) waiting list for a CAMHS appointment, through your GP.

[ceecee]

I think as parents we know our children best and if you are concerned I would persue it.i have a three year old boy who is quite boisterious but when he wants to he will sit quite happily still watching tv etc.At playschool he sits on the carpet/chair etc when asked.So I guess no problem.I think we have to say what is so called normal toddler behaviour and what is something more.Hard sometimes when they are very young.Best wishes to you and good luck.Take care.

[mossgrove]

I read an interesting paper a couple of yrears ago looking at the possible links between ADHD and ASD. The paper found that about 70% of the issues that were associated with ASD are also associated with ADHD and vice versa.

 

What this means is that if you are looking at an issue like impulsivity, not sitting still or poor social skills it isn't always possible to say if its down to ADHD or ASD, Our 5 year old has a dual diagnosis, and it is impossible to tell on a day to day basis which is which.

 

I appreciate that this hasn't helped you much! it is just to warn you that any answeres you get may not be as clear as you were hoping them to be. That said I think you should raise your concerns as it always helps when issues are identified for what they are instead of being treated as 'naughtiness'

 

Simon

[call me jaded]

I think you could take a firm-ish line with your GP that you want a referral for assessment considering the family history. Quite often they want to 'wait and see'.

[LizK]

There is a definite link between ASD and ADHD. My 4 yr old with ASD has definite hyperactive features too, poor concentration span, inability to sit still, squirms, wriggles, fiddles almost compulsivily at time, impulsive. Don't think he's got ADHD as such but is definitely has a tendency in that area. Also though his ASD makes some of his hyperactive thigns worse so if he gets sensory overload or gets anxious he can be quite manic but in these cases it is secondary to something external. The part of the brain involved in ADHD sits structurally close to the areas affected in ASD so that is I believe why the two conditions often occur together. Someone psoted a link on here a few weeks back quoting a paper that said that in their opinion up to 80% of cases of ADHD there was also a comorbid condition

 

However your son is still fairly young and his behaviour could just be due to his age. I've seen posts like yours on general parenting forums with lots of replies from mums (of mainly boys) saying their NT kids did or used to be behave like that but outgrew it. I think there is a wide variation in development as his age and as he gets older and matures he might calm down a bit. It's for that reason that many paeds or child psychs are reluctant to diagnose primary ADHD before the age of 5 or 6 unless it is particularly bad. However I don't say that to dismiss your fears, I know what it is like to have this sort of thing nag away at you. Could you have a chat with your HV first to get her opinion and then maybe see your GP?

 

Have you tried your son on fish oils and an additive free diet, both of which might help. Might be worthwhile too contacting the British Red Cross Society. I got some useful info about ADHD from them.

 

HTH

 

Liz x

[ceecee]

I use fish oil capsules for my daughter whom I suspect of having dsylexia.Her co-ordination is affected and her spelling is weak though it is improving all the time.I have found them to seemingly ge quite effective.

Edited December 12, 2005 by ceecee

[rainbow queen]

thank you everyone for the replys

 

my other son the 4 year old has been on iq [fish oils] for just over 2 years now-and i think it has made a lot of difference to him

 

my 3 year old refuses to take the liquid ive tryed many times and he spits it out then i go mad cause its quite expensive

but i will perserve with it

 

i understand what everyones saying

i think i will talk to my gp and see how he adjusts to nursery-i will point out the things you said.

[mossgrove]

LizK

 

One longer term difference between ASD and ADHD is that some children do appear to 'outgrow' ADHD, or at least reach a point where the symptoms are no longer as severe, but Autism is a life-long condition. It isn't nearly that simple while the child is growing up though!

 

Simon

[Klou]

Definitely speak to your Health visitor or GP rainbow queen. I constantly flit between why did I start this process and there is definitely something wrong, not helped by well meaning friends telling me their children did/do this and of course christmas.

 

My nephew has ADHD and we think DS is ASD. Nephew is now 8. Everyone in the family has known he has been hard work since he learnt to talk and walk. MIL suspected for a long time finally he has been diagnosed. Now SIL has other children the differences are obvious.

 

We don't have that, as ds is an only child but I think the key thing is that NT children grow out of things and become more managable - those dreaded sticker charts and time outs actually have a noticable and beneficial effect. My sons behaviour is on a parallel with my friends two year old daughter. During the time we have been waiting for appointments he has definitely got worse, his obsessions are more ingrained. He is very bright but his behaviour is like my friend's 2 and a half year old. An explosive combination.

 

I recommend Multicoloured Mayhem be Jackie Jackson (also a film about her life tonight 9pm BBC2) she clearly links ADHD with ASD and her four boys have all got a 'shade of the rainbow!' The GP/HV should take you seriously and if you get the ball rolling over the time it takes you can monitor the little one's behaviour and work out if you are still worried. Appointments can always be cancelled!

 

Good Luck

[call me jaded]

Actually I don't think children with ADHD do outgrow it. I think as they mature they have better coping strategies, possibly self-medicate with tobacco and seek out employment where sitting still is not required.

 

My younger brother had classic ADHD symptoms as a child.

[mossgrove]

I did think twice after I posted it, but what I have read suggests that some children 'outgrow' ADHD and some children don't.

 

The thought also occured to me that this may be similar to the Aspergers vs Aspergers traits discussion last week, i.e. those that merely have traits are able to work around their isues, while those with ADHD cannot without assistance.

 

Simon

[LizK]

LizK

 

One longer term difference between ASD and ADHD is that some children do appear to 'outgrow' ADHD, or at least reach a point where the symptoms are no longer as severe, but Autism is a life-long condition. It isn't nearly that simple while the child is growing up though!

 

Simon

 

LOL! Wasn't that what I was saying?!! Sorry if not clear. Actually what I was trying to say is that some NT children with neither ADHD, ASD or anything else can at a younger age can exhibit what appear to be ADHD-features but it is just a variant of normal. Well that's what friends tell me of such children tell me!

 

I think if a child has ADHD they have it for life though as they get older some seem to compensate for it and 'calm down' as they reach adulthood. Adult-ADHD is now just being recognised apparently! Am sure my FIL (68 going on 21 ) has it

 

Liz x

[lil_me]

LizK you are right, I spoke to a few proffesional about this. ADHD in adults is only just starting to become recognised, by SOME not ALL proffesionals. Most children I have known with ADHD when they hit adulthood and deal with other proffesionals have end up with labels like Conduct Disorder, OCD, etc etc.