I have serious doubts

[Viper]

I hope this doesn't cause anyone any upset. I just have to get this off my chest.

 

Superman was Dx in May as Autistic with severe anxiety. But the "experts" have taken almost 5 years to come to this conclusion. In all that time I have had doubts as to him having ASD. I have been thinking, between ASD and Bipolar. I now think he is Bipolar. I have told his psychiatrist what I think and she said she hasn't rulled it out for the future but can't DX at 7 because this country does not believe children can have bipolar disorder, whereas many adults with the condition say they had the symptoms from early childhood.

 

Everything about SM sugest it is bipolar. He swings between hyper active to depressed. My DD summed it up when she said he is like a clockwork toy wound up to full and he just goes and goes until he breaks.

 

He is going through a manic period at the moment. It started on Sunday and he hasn't stopped running up and down the living room pushing a car since then. He has done it so much that his stomach muscles hurt but he still does it. He also talks constantly at speed and sleep is not on his agenda even with melatonin. Last night I gave him his melatonin at 8.30 and he was still going at 11.30.

 

Last week however he was awful to live with. He wasn't interested in anything. He sat and watched TV all day and said he was tired all day long, even falling asleep in the afternoon and one day he went to sleep at 6, i woke him for his Tea which he ate and went back to sleep until the morning, all without melatonin. When he was awake he cried at the slightest thing, thought he was rubbish at everything and wanted to die. He wasn't ill, I took his temperature.

 

I really don't know what to do. There is no way I can get him DX until he reaches an age where it is acceptable in this country. But until then I have to wait for my suspicions to even be considered. The only plus is that his psych has prescribed Respiridone for him that is also used to treat Bipolar as well as ASD.

 

Oh, and I feel I must add that I am not in denial about his ASD, I would rather it was ASD than Bipolar (no offence intended) because people with Bipolar are more likely to commit suicide and that thought alone scares me so much.

[Neil Young]

I hope this doesn't cause anyone any upset. I just have to get this off my chest.

 

Superman was Dx in May as Autistic with severe anxiety. But the "experts" have taken almost 5 years to come to this conclusion. In all that time I have had doubts as to him having ASD. I have been thinking, between ASD and Bipolar. I now think he is Bipolar. I have told his psychiatrist what I think and she said she hasn't rulled it out for the future but can't DX at 7 because this country does not believe children can have bipolar disorder, whereas many adults with the condition say they had the symptoms from early childhood.

 

Everything about SM sugest it is bipolar. He swings between hyper active to depressed. My DD summed it up when she said he is like a clockwork toy wound up to full and he just goes and goes until he breaks.

 

He is going through a manic period at the moment. It started on Sunday and he hasn't stopped running up and down the living room pushing a car since then. He has done it so much that his stomach muscles hurt but he still does it. He also talks constantly at speed and sleep is not on his agenda even with melatonin. Last night I gave him his melatonin at 8.30 and he was still going at 11.30.

 

Last week however he was awful to live with. He wasn't interested in anything. He sat and watched TV all day and said he was tired all day long, even falling asleep in the afternoon and one day he went to sleep at 6, i woke him for his Tea which he ate and went back to sleep until the morning, all without melatonin. When he was awake he cried at the slightest thing, thought he was rubbish at everything and wanted to die. He wasn't ill, I took his temperature.

 

I really don't know what to do. There is no way I can get him DX until he reaches an age where it is acceptable in this country. But until then I have to wait for my suspicions to even be considered. The only plus is that his psych has prescribed Respiridone for him that is also used to treat Bipolar as well as ASD.

 

Oh, and I feel I must add that I am not in denial about his ASD, I would rather it was ASD than Bipolar (no offence intended) because people with Bipolar are more likely to commit suicide and that thought alone scares me so much.

 

An excellent survey and vioews can be found in

 

Kids in the syndrome mix of ADHD, LD, Asperger's, Tourette's, Bipolar and more!

Martin L. Kutscher

Jessica Kingsley

ISBN: 978 1 84310 810 8

[Mumble]

It's a difficult one and I think we all question when we see things that don't 'fit' or come across something that fits better. I think it is very easy to see something from any list of characteristics for anything because we tend to focus on those most like us whilst ignoring anything that doesn't fit. I don't know anything about your son and so wouldn't want to offer an opinion - but I do think it is important so see ASD as a spectrum not so much in terms of severity but in terms of the different ways it manifests itself. I definately go through the 'peaks and troughs' you describe - and I think there's a lot behind it from hormonal cycles to things builing up because I don't have a standard way of dealing with stress for example.

 

Have you watched Stephen Fry's "The Secret Life of the Manic Depressive?". This is on You Tube in several parts. Here is a link to the pages with all the parts: Secret Life of Manic Depressive. I remember when watching this that there was something about the reluctance to dx bipolar in the UK - Fry goes to the US where they do and discusses this - you might find it interesting (but unfortunately I can't remember where in the programme it comes).

 

EDIT: It's toward the end of part 3 - there are boys dx bi-polar at 6 and 8 years.

Edited October 27, 2007 by Mumble

[Guest Lya of the Nox]

hey hun

u need to keep a dairy of all behaviour for a set time maybe couple of months

put food in it too, what going on around and then you can see a better pattern and maybe have evidence that proff will listen to.

someone ( mental health nurse) once suggested to me to watch out for it here too

but i am sure we are not there

<'>

[madme]

My son now 12 was at 6 perhaps more like that. He has a dx of Hyperkinetic disorder( severe adhd), aspergers and dyspraxia. He now takes ritalin and risperdone. We have often wondered if he is bipolar. A child at his school was dx that in the states but is now treated as adhd aspergers. I would only urge caution vis a vis education. I'm not sure what help education would provide for a bipolar dx but I'm sure if they could escape any "autism" dx they will as it will be cheaper! I'm perhaps too cynical. Take Care

[LizK]

Has ADHD been excluded? Just that he sounds similar to my friend's 7 year old child who has ASD and recently diagnosed ADHD especially with the manic hyper episodes. Her child's life has been changed by ritalin and one thing she has noticed which surprised her was that her child no longer complains of feeling tired and having 'down' episodes. Was almost like the hyperactivity or energy put into having to concentrate tired her child out.

 

Whatever is going on must be very difficult to live with the uncertainty and not being able to get an answer until older

 

Lx

[Nic m]

Hi Viper,

I have no experience of this but just wanted to say i hope you find the correct support

Nicola

[mum23]

temperatureHello Viper,

I have no medical know how, but I wonder if your son might be deppresed, but not in the Bi-polar way we have found that all our family members that have or had AS had bouts of bad depression then swings into hyper phases, I remember reading some where that people with ASD are more likely than the genral population to suffer from bouts of depression, it is very much linked to how they have to deal with the input from the world around them.

My 12 year old AS son, told us that some days he is so tiered of feeling like he is electric man that he just wants it all to stop, as he is hyper but so want's to be able to sit still for a while as his brain hurts and he knows that nothing he does will stop it. Then he crashes and gets very tiered it is then that his anxiaties really loom their ugly head and he becomes governed by his OCD's. We have over the last year also found out our son has an underline medical condition that makes him over reactive to his adrenalin output, which explains his inabillity to shut off his hyper responsis.

Has your sons Dr.'s looked into other medical resons that might couse such mood swings, like hyerthirodisom, diabeates, NFor2(sorry sp getting even worse) and so on I think it is very important to rule out these conditions so that you can build a more clear picture of what is going on with your son.

I hope you can find some one that is able to offer you some insight to what is going on.

Anna

[Paula]

I have bi polar disortder myself i was diagnosed 8 years ago at the age of 30 after decades of mood swings and depression and mania.

 

 

 

I can recommend a brilliant web site for freinds,family suffers people just wanting information parents young people ect.if you just type into youre search engine MDF bipolar ity will come up you need to register to post on the discussion boards but its a wonderfull place to chat talk and gaine information.............Ive been visiting it for the past 6 years.I post as Paw on there.

 

 

 

Looking back at my life my bi polar symtoms presented at an early age,i was moody withdrawn ect.......it took of more in my teenage years i suffered from depressions but it was put down to being a teenager............My twenties saw massive mood swings form seveare depressions to manic and high.............The highs of a Bi polar suffer cant be summed up in just being happy its much more than that.youre mind is literally buzzing,you start to talk very fast,you see things more clearly or so you think,you cant sleep,you make big plans things become disjointed and eventually you crash and burn and the depression sets in..............

 

You can go months being normal in my case i go for long periods of a time............the mania can last for short periods or go on for months you can change from one day to the next this is know as rapid cycleing amongs Bi polar people.and everyone is different.Bi polar is on a slideing scale of how it presents.

 

Youre normally diagnosed via a long winded physciatric valution where they look at youre history and talk to you in depth about things then a diagnosis is made.......againe they tend not to diagnose after one episode they prefere you to have a history of cycleing.

 

addy and ho

If you wish to discuss youre worries in more depth or ask more personal questions thats fine.

Bipolar disorder is very complicated...............

 

 

But its not the end of the world............I know

 

 

Paula

 

 

 

 

Paula I have edited the post to remove your Email address but pm is safer way for people to contact you instead.Regards Karen.

Edited October 29, 2007 by Karen A

[Tally]

The ex was diagnosed bipolar, but he never really experienced the classic symptoms of mania. At times he was irritable, fidgety, threatening and aggressive, but he did not experience the racing or grandiose thoughts, and frequently expressed suicidal thoughts and believed everyone hated him. I thought he was experiencing atypical manic episodes or mixed episodes, but looking back, it does look more like a combination of severe depression and ADHD.

 

The rapid speech is typical of mania, although not, as far as I know, of ADHD. In mania your thoughts race so fast. It can sometimes feel like your thoughts are going faster than you can speak.

 

The depressive phases are often more severe than in 'standard' depression.

 

But the condition can be well managed with the correct medication. Many mood stabilisers are primarily used to treat epilepsy and are safe for use in children. In this country they are not yet licensed for treatment of bipolarism, even in adults, but doctors can prescribe them "off label" for conditions other than epilepsy. They are also commonly prescribed for depression, so if the psychiatrist needs to come up with some diagnosis in order to prescribe, depression-NOS might work, and could then be refined at a later date.

[Viper]

Thank you for all your replies. Some very interesting information there to investigate.

 

I will be keeping a diary of his moods and show his psych when I next see her. In the long term I think I just have to wait until he is old enough to be investigated. Fingers crossed that it's not what I suspect.