Ocean

There are a few thoughts I have which may or may not be helpful, so please take or leave my suggestions/thoughts as you know best: One thing that struck me was your wondering whether to go to the Dr and/or let social services know. I know nothing about your relationship to these services and how they are involved or how helpful you find them. But, fact is, many young people self harm at some point and often it doesn't necessitate intervention outside of the family. Sometimes it is an isolated event, or a phase. Sometimes the harm is carefully controlled by the young person so as to avoid endangering themselves, but still to make moderate harm. The violence of self harm, and the pain, can be a source of peace in emotional turmoil, much like some sort of emotional 'reset' button. It is normal, I think, for people to calm after it. Sounds like your son surprised himself and was remorseful. The problem is of course, that self injury is an unpleasant and deeply upsetting thing, especially for family. Perhaps, as shown by his apologies, he realised this. So, perhaps a solution would be to agree on the disadvantages of self harm and recreate the advantages of it, but in a positive sense. Let me explain. First, it might be beneficial to talk about how it made you sad when he hurt himself. One common reaction from a young person might be, 'Why should it make *you* sad? It's me who I hurt! And it's me who was angry and sad to begin with!!' But the simple point is, 'Because I care that you are OK, I am sad when something hurts you. It's upsetting for others when you hurt yourself.' I have chosen to word that sentence carefully, because if I wrote, 'It is upsetting for others to see you hurt yourself,' or, 'It is upsetting for others to see you have hurt yourself', this might suggest the young person makes their self injury private and covered up, rather than get the actual point across. It is also key to avoid sounding like he is being told off, or having the burden of other's emotional responses put upon him. But a simple, factual explaination says there is repurcussions and he is cared about. However shocked your son was by the blood and pain, he did observe the fact that it calmed him. This is true. It did serve a practical (though unexpected) purpose and was of use to him in owning and controlling his own emotions. Now of course, I would not suggest self harm to be benefitial, but I would suggest agreeing with your son on this part, because he was correct, but then talk about a safer alternative. For example, talk about why hurting yourself in anger can be dangerous, perhaps even going so far as to discuss (calmly and factually) that there are veins and arteries, muscle and nerves under the skin and these can be damaged. Then perhaps there are other ways that (safe) pain and aggression can exist without damage. For example, if your son maintains that pain helped him, perhaps suggest a safer alternative such as pinging an elastic band against his own skin, slapping his own thigh or arm perhaps. It has been suggested for people with anxiety disorders to use the elastic band idea, wearing it around their wrist, because the short sharp pain interupts the building anxiety by using the nerves for something else! HOWEVER VERY IMPORTANT... The suggestion of safer self harm techniques should be used only when the young person is persistent that self harm is going to continue. Your son may have frightened himself with his latest injury and might not continue to harm himself at all. If so, hold back with ideas such as these so as not to encourage the behaviour and so that you have them in reserve if you need them later. Secondly, I hope I've made it clear enough that I suggest these alternatives for your son to use as he sees fit. Any siblings, peers, carers etc, must never be tempted to use that technique on his behalf, obviously. I'm sure that would go without saying, but I said it anyway. Then to create the aggressive element in a safer way. Many household and garden tasks, games and sports involve constructive aggression. Stamping on cans to put in the recycling, dropping bottles into recycling banks and hearing them smash, whacking a ball in many sports, or even a garden swingball, a punchbag maybe, going for a run to a local shop (careful of roads) to buy something helpful for the household (milk, toilet rolls...) that needs to then be brought home (i.e. to encourage not going anywhere else or running away)...There are loads of ideas that might be suitable, think outside the box, be creative. As a teen myself once, I put some water balloons in the garden, with things written on them that annoyed me, then threw gravel bits at them and watched them burst. The very best solutions would likely be those your son comes up with himself, because in the choosing of his own solutions, this empowers him to own his own emotional state. There may also be ways to express mood that haven't yet been mentioned. One thing that suits some young people and children is a 'mood cube'. This is a cube that the child/young person might make themselves, or not, just use a large dice or box. And they themselves choose a colour for each side, each representing a mood they sometimes have and paint or colour it. The colour/moods should be all their choice. But as an example, red might equal angry, yellow = happy etc, maybe black being a very, very bad mood. You might find of course, that the young person's favourite colour is the happy one, so grey or blue might mean happy rather than sad as you might have chosen. But this is fine, because the point is that you and they remember which means what. The young person is then free to turn the cube to display how they feel and leave it as a communication to others. (I.E. The side facing up is how they feel). The cube can be taken by the young person to a trusted adult as a way of communication, or a conversation starter, or it could just be placed on a table or outside a bedroom door, without conversation, just to let others be aware. This idea also serves to remind them that although they currently feel the feeling that is upturned, they also have other feelings at other times too, and these are the other sides of the cube. One last point I'd like to make is please make sure that people do not necessarity equate self-harm with suicidal behaviour. The two are so very often not at all linked. Only occasionally would someone progress with worsening self harm into suicidal behaviour. But it would be likely that this would always have been their attitude/intention. I think from what you say, that your son hurt himself in raging emotional stress, and although we must always take these things very seriously, obviously, we also need to keep perspective. So, some services and authorities may need reminding of this on time. Just thought I'd add that. So, that is what I can think of to offer. I hope your son does very well and I think you should be congratulated for your clear hard work to help him and also to empower him to help himself.

You make a really good point. Calling is more effective and a text conversation is like passing notes between you and some one standing next to you. Seems senseless when you could just call them. Although, if someone would otherwise procastinate about making a dreaded phone call, or even not do it at all, then text can be more efficient in the long run. And far less draining. The self service checkouts usually follow the same pattern. Unless you use coupons, age restricted goods or have a dodgy machine. I usually get to a point when out shopping, where I don't want to buy anything more because I've run out of energy for the check-out bit. But if there are self-service checkouts, then that store is far more likely to get a sale from me!

Hi. That does sound very annoying. I hope I won't my suggestion here is a good idea and doesn't add annoyance... I wonder if involving your son in problem solving this situation of having a broken laptop might be a learning experience in well, problem solving, but also in taking responsibility and learning that carelessness has consequences. It's not a punishment, but a 'Right, this is the situation *we* are now in, how are *we* going to solve this together?' For example, you might both decide to look in the guarentee info, and perhaps you could suggest your son finds the page and reads aloud the correct info. You might suggest he researches a repair shop. I know little about your son, including age and independence, so obviously whatever is appropriate. I think maybe say something like, 'I am so concerned about that laptop being broken that I can't think about dinner for a little while, I am too busy thinking about what we will do to get it fixed. I need you to concentrate on this with me before we get dinner.' Obviously the moment has passed now but another time maybe describe the situation and how you feel. It is quite satisfying to say it yet people often don't. I wonder how much your son knows you were/are annoyed. All this might be obvious and naive, I realise, but thanks for letting me offer it.

The invention of text and email is brilliant, as is those self-service checkouts. They are stress reducers too. I use my mobile often, but almost always for texting or calling the four people I know well enough! Here goes a slight tangent, but sort of relevent too... Yesterday I had an appointment with a new GP, where I (again) requested assessment. The GP wanted time to think and said he would call me at 10am the following day. So, today I psyched myself up and sat in the room where I can get recepton. (I only have a mobile and I get very poor reception in my house). The time came and went with no call. I stayed in the room for over an hour, hoping for but slightly dreading the imminent 'telephone consultation'. But nothing. No call. My fiance suggested I might call the surgery to enquire about it, but that would mean making a phone call to request another phone call, and to talk about AS. Too many scary things, not enough bravery.

Thanks Tally. It's reassuring to know I'm not the only one, whether or not it's due to AS. I like the idea of thinking about the percentage of phone calls that despite my anxiety have gone really well. That gives me more confidence. This morning I had a GP appointment, asking for referral. He is going to think about it and give me a call tomorrow. Eek! I'll do my best.

Is it common or heard of for people with AS to be rather frightened of using a 'phone? Are there others who experience this and can relate? And are there any ways people have found to make it easier? I am 23 and I am in the process of seeking a diagnosis, having been fobbed off and sent round in circles until I could almost hear the 'Magic Roundabout' theme tune! One of my most intrusive traits is currently my fear of using a phone, be it a landline or a mobile. The anxiety I experience when I do make a phone call, or answer a call, is intense. I often talk to myself for a while afterwards and scurry around doing practical tasks to take my mind off it. Later I will be emotionally tired and sometimes shy and/or grumpy because I can't handle any more that day. I communicate in writing very well and like to use email and text. I am happy enough to meet in person with people if it avoids a phone call. This is what I think makes me so nervous: 1. When a phone rings there is a sudden demand to quickly answer. There is no time for psyching yourself up for the interaction. It also provokes similar anxiety when someone unexpectedly knocks at the door. There is no knowing who this person is, either until you pick up the phone, or when your phone displays the caller's name. Still, this is not enough time to get used to the idea of being about to have a conversation with them. 2. When a phone rings, it demands social interaction when you are in your home, which is a sanctuary from the outside world, where you can hide away. It feels invasive and disturbs you when you have let your guard down and dared to relax. 3. When making a phone call, you cannot be certain who will answer, nor know who it is even when they do answer. Sometimes no one answers. It's hard to know what to expect exactly. 4. When making a phone call, you feel you are interrupting. If you were in the room with the person, you would ask politely for their attention, not just demand it. So, text and email seem more polite or just less embarrassingly rude. My fear has got worse over the years. I still make calls every now and then, because this is essential to live. I am currently job-hunting and I will not get a job nor be able to pay my rent if I do not dare to use the phone. I send CV's by post/email and apply online if possible. Some times people say it will get easier with practice, as though you will get used to it and not find it as frightening if you do it a lot. This might be true. But I don't do it enough to find out! Sometimes I let myself miss the call then see who it was and call them back, giving myself a bit longer to think about it. But to be honest, many times I then don't call them back. I am not just being lazy. I pay for a membership to a swimming pool in another town where I no longer live nor visit, because I have not yet psyched myself up to call them to discontinue it. I have made some calls recently, but haven't managed that one yet. People sometimes get frustrated with me. I can understand why. It can make me feel a bit of an idiot. When I meet face-to-face with people I used to be very shy but now I am more confident. But the fear surrounding making phone calls is getting difficult. I should add, there are a few people who I have no fear calling nor recieving a call from. These are my immediate family who I have lived with for 18 years, and my fiance. I am not afraid to call those people. But with anyone else, I am. What do you think? Is this common? Is this part of growing up? What can make it easier? And, maybe most importantly, am I alone with this?

Those sites look brilliant. I'm not sure I can top those, but I thought I'd add a couple more for variety. In my experience, toy shops around the town can have some excellent sensory toys, but in my opinion, as they don't specialise specifically in sensory toys, there may be a few suitable toys in each shop, rather than a whole host of excellent choices. Here's some of my recommendations, which I have found useful for my own constant need to fiddle and for sensory input, rather than any sensory integration work or work with children. But take a look because there are some excellent toys. The 'Haba' range is brilliant. They make a lot of baby toys, but not only those, and even though some toys are bit young, my friends still can't resist having a go. And I'm 23. Here's a couple of links to some particularly good ones: This one makes no noise and it's pocket sized: http://www.revilotoys.co.uk/acatalog/info_17.html This one makes a satisfying clicky noise: http://www.revilotoys.co.uk/acatalog/info_21.html There are many more brilliant toys on that site too. 'Haba' toys are sold in some high street shops, but usually only smaller independent shops specialising in wooden toys and more obscure brands, such as Plantoy, Pintoy, Voila etc. The 'Skwish' is another brilliant classic that makes a pleasant 'wood-against-wood' noise, has bright colours and it's tactile. http://www.revilotoys.co.uk/acatalog/info_3.html I've linked it here, but it is also available in Mothercare and John Lewis. For a less babyish look, the same toy is available in natural wood (no colours) with white elastic: http://www.revilotoys.co.uk/acatalog/info_1173.html However, despite being very good toys, these are a little babyish. If you have a 'Hawkins Bazaar' shop nearby, you might find some good ones in there too, aimed at slightly older children as well as younger ones. Especially the rubbery squashy type of toys. And some light up toys. In amongst the pocket-money or stocking filler toys, there might be some that interest you. I've linked the stocking filler part of the site, but again, these can be shop bought too. http://www.hawkin.com/find/category-is-Toy...ocking+Fillers/ Maybe, under close supervision, a pack of glowsticks in a darkened room can be a fun sensory activity. Often £1 stores and shops like Wilko's sell these. They are thin and have connecting pieces to make them into a long line, or loops, or a chain of loops etc. They can be worn like bracelets or belts and waved about. But obviously it's very important the child doesn't chew them or try to break them open. Anyway, there's some of my suggestions. I hope they help and don't patronise if you already thought of all those things.

Hi Tally. Thankyou too for the welcome. Yeah, forums are great for that. I heard that a lot of people have negative experiences regarding diagnoses and the like, so I guess my experiences and rants are familiar! However, I didn't come here just to rant, so I must keep myself in check. There is just a lot of unspent frustration. I like your avatar by the way. I've seen that postcard before. It's cool. Edit: Gah oops, I just noticed a mistake in my original post. I wrote, 'But I do enjoy other people's company, when it's people I can relax around and when I have I have a fiance.' But I went to say, '...and I have a fiance' or 'when circumstances are right. I also have a fiance'. Sorry!

Hi, Smiley1590. Thanks for taking the time to welome me here. It's nice to hear from someone with a some similar experiences. I too had depression since 14, and anxiety attacks too. But unfortunately, I didn't realise these were mental health conditions and I just thought I was strange and I was embarrassed about it. So I didn't tell anyone, until I was 16 and then I got some medicine. It's not been plain sailing since, but life circumstances have improved and I am happier than I have been in a long time. Thing is though, life very stops throwing new challenges at you does it! I have found that I have to me quite assertive with mental health professionals sometimes, as well as friendly and respectful, of course, or they just do what they think best, but don't always listen. As for meds, I've had SSRI's, Escitalopram (Cipralex) and Sertraline. Depression is aweful, but it does fade. Part of my frustration is that I don't have a diagnosis, so I cannot explain my difficulties to people. I cannot be certain that my differences are due to AS until I have been assessed and I can't get assessed until the professionals refer me. Until then, I have to expect people to understand my ways as part of a quirky and anxious character, and this demands a fair bit of patience from them on times. Sometimes I tell people that I think I have AS, and some of them tell me to stop seeking a label and just to be myself. I have tried this, but I have ended up so exhausted just trying to do normal daily social things that I wonder how I'm ever going to live a proper adult life. Without a diagnoses, I also can't access the services. I am going to take another shot at it though. But, sorry, that's enough of my ranting. I'm not always so mopey, honest! I just have lot to spill out to people who understand. It's hard to hold it back! I am on facebook, but at the moment, I'd prefer only to chat on this site, because, well, I don't know to be honest, I just had only planned to do that, but one day I might. I hope to see you around here though. It seems like there are a lot of members, so I hope to see you amongst them all! -Ocean

Hi all. I am 'Ocean', although that isn't actually my real name. I am 23, have just finished a degree in youth studies and I live in Leicestershire. My interest in this forum comes from having spent the last 18 months or so trying to get taken seriously by enough different health professionals for an assessment to be made of whether my AS traits actually warrent a diagnosis. Below is some more of my 'story' if you are interested in it: I have been on a rollercoaster journey of emotions and thoughts as I went from referral to referral, then hit a dead end and effectively got kicked back out of the system only to start back with the GP again. This was very frustrating, as the Consultant Psychiatrist I was referred to said he was no specialist in ASDs, and suggested that I might just have to try harder in life than some. I already was trying very, very hard and suffering badly with depression. I had a few aggressive outbursts at university and got given a final warning in my third year. The university tutors knew what was going on and wrote a letter to my GP. with my permission, to help make them take me more serously, but the GP told me that unless I did this sort of thing every day or week, there is no pattern of behaviour to observe and so these incidents were insignificant isolated incidents. I persisted, and tried to be as clear as possible. The GP told me that people who have AS don't usually come in independently having listed their symptoms (or triats) but are usually brought in by other people who have noticed these things. The GP later explained that the mental health system deal with those who have completely ceased to function as a person and/or who are suicidal. The bad thing about this is that to the outside world I often seem upbeat even when I am near the edge myself. I have been on SSRI antidepressents since I was 17, so over 6 years now. I have tried counselling twice but couldn't hate it more if I tried. Last time, the counsellor sat too close and right in front of me, and talked in a falsely calm voice. I hated it before I even got past the superficial. I then moved to a new area/county, and I have to start all over again. But, maybe there will be better services here. I have been in contact with the NAS, who were very helpful. But I don't wish to come across as negative. My experience has been negative and I am angry, but by character I am friendly, happy and I love humour. I also wrote my university dissertation on ASD's and faith development, as I worked in a church as a youth worker. I have read a lot and have worked with three young people with AS. I know a bit about it and I recognise the traits in myself. I also struggle with the burden of the social side of life and get very very stressed and grumpy when I haven't had enough chill time at home inbetween social meetings/outings. But I do enjoy other people's company, when it's people I can relax around and when I have I have a fiance. I could list other traits, such as massive obsessions, with toys, prams, swimming pool drains and watching washing machines. If anyone has those interests, speak up! There are other traits regarding thinking patterns and emotional immaturity. But this intro thread is longer than I wanted it to be, and you will be getting bored by now. I guess I have a lot to get off my mind, but I also want to avoid creating a negative image of myself. So, anyway, nice to meet you and I hope to join in around the forums and contribute helpfully. -Ocean