Cat

Nellie Nice to see you to see you nice I agree things have GOT to change or there will be rather a LARGE amount of egg on a great many faces Cat

I am quietly optimistic at the moment although not stupid enough to think that things are going to change either over-night or even enough. AIM did a report for the Lamb Enquiry detailing why parents have very little confidence in the system. It was very damning indeed and I did wonder if it was perhaps a bridge too far, but everything in the report was true and came from over 100 parents who having lost faith in the system altogether took their SEN children out of school to home ed. Brian Lamb has some good people on his team. Let?s just hope that the government continues to listen and act. They discounted the findings of the Education and Skills Select Committee they must NOT do the same with the Lamb Enquiry findings. From January I will be a council member for the Autism and Education Trust. Parents 'are' slowly beginning to be included where it counts and as a very good friend of mine has always said re effecting change and making progress, 'You have to be in it to win it'. Which was why when I was asked if I would become a council member I said yes. Cat

The feeling if isolation ended for me when we decided to home educate our sons. It was a great relief for 'me' not to have to stand in the school yard with the other Mums who I had nothing in common with. I had not realised just how competitive parents were with each other and how much they talked about what 'Johnny' could do better than 'Joey' until I found myself with two autistic sons. I was probably just as bad as these parents with my eldest none autistic son but I did feel totally isolated. It brought it home to me that if 'I' was feeling this way how must my sons feel Not having to try to 'fit in' with the other Mums stopped me from feeling so down about everything. I did manage to keep a couple of my long-time friends but I also had nothing in common with most of my other friends and so we did drift apart. It is not as if I wanted to spend all day talking about autism, it was just that the autism tends to rule your life and what you can and can not do like it or not, including having friends in your home. My best friend understood or at least made an effort to understand but other friends said things like 'well all kids are like that' which made me want to So I made new friends. I opened a support group and made some of the best friends that I have ever had in my life. We support each other through thick and thin and also have some really good nights out I decided that I either sat and here feeling isolated or did something about it so I did something about it. Life changes for ever but it does not have to be bad - just different and different can be good Cat

Your son is still very young and he is probably very frustrated by his communication problems and also his understanding of things. This is a very difficult time but it does get better as their commuincation and understanding skills improve. My son used to communicate with us by hitting us, usually with the nearest thing to hand which made it quite dangerous to be standing too close to him. However it did improve once he was able to make himself understood and shared more understanding with us. Cat

Basically you can not make sure that anything happens without a statement you can only hope that it does and sit on thier case if it does not. Was there a date for a multi-agency meeting set? Maybe this will bring forth results. I would personally be applying for a statement. If your son is on School Action Plus the school will have to prove that they have tried everything to support your son. If they have not done so they will have to do so, so you have nothing to loose really. Cat

How old is your son? Hurting themselves is something that has been discussed here on numerous occassions. Along with the question of why some kids/adults with ASD do this. This is still a very grey area with no firm answers but I can tell you what my 11 year old son has told me when he head buts things, which he does not do very often these days thankfully. He told me that when he is feeling stressed, frustrated or angry the pain he feels from butting his head is better than the pain he is feeling inside of his head. In other words he needs a physical release for what he is feeling inside. What we did with him was to offer him a safer alternative to butting his head. You can not just tell a child with autism to stop doing something you have to offer them an alternative so you need to talk about what else he could do when he is feeling like this and then make it happen. With our son it was a kick board. All you can then do is to remind him whenever he is loosing it what he needs to do. It wont always work but you keep on repeating what he needs to do when he needs to release his inner pain. I know that your son does not yet have a diagnosis but if he is old enough to talk to this does not stop you from talking about his feelings and what he can do other than hurting his head. You do not need to mention AS just that you know how frustrated he sometimes gets and that you want to help him find a better way for him to deal with it. Cat

Does your son have a statement? Are his hours of support listed in that statement? If he does have a statement and his one to one is specified then I would raise merry hell. If he is only on school action plus you can raise merry hell, and I would, but school action plus is not legally binding a statement is. Hope this helps. Cat

If you pm me with your e-mail addy I will send you the OFSTED Report you have asked for Cat

Please feel free to X post this and pass it on. Hi There Sorry to be a pain, I just need 2 minutes of your time. I am supporting a campaign of the National Autistic Society to get the Autism Bill through parliament. We are about 200 votes short and the deadline is TOMORROW! The Autism Bill aims to strengthen information about the numbers of people with autism and their needs, in order to improve local planning and commissioning of services. It aims to improve inter-agency working to secure effective transition for disabled young people who are moving from child to adult services. Finally, it aims to ensure access to appropriate support and services for people with autism in adult life. Just click on email your MP now link below, enter your name and address and follow the on screen guidelines to email your MP automatically. email your MP now here is the link http://www.campaigns.autism.org.uk/ea-camp...ampaign.id=1664 MANY thanks for your help. Cat

First of all, and this is very important, you do NOT need the school to apply for a statement for your son. It is YOUR legal right to ask for a Statutory Assessment of needs and my bet would be that the LA would then steam in and ask the school WHY your son has never even been on School Action or School Action Plus. Given all of the other interventions that are happening I think that this is shocking and the school could do with a sharpe short shock here to spur them into action. It is also my betting that the Ed Psy tomorrow might very well agree with the school that your son does not need a statement and that there are other kids who are more needy than your son. The other needy kids are NOT your problem. It is very late now and probably too late for you to do this but my advice to you would be to download a copy of the SEN code of practice from here http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/3724/SENCodeOfPractice.pdf please do not be put of by the fact that the document is massive. This is the bible of many parents who have children with SEN and for a very good reason. This code will tell you just what the school should be doing for your son. I think because the school have been so very good at side steeping their duties and because your sons health is suffering (you have professionals who are willing to support you here which is great) I would write down all of your sons difficulties and then say that unless the school is willing to put your son forward for a statutory assessment you are going to do so yourself. If they say no then you will find all of the info you need to do just that in the code of practice and I know that people here will help you. I would also be telling the school that if they do not fix a date for the multi-agency meeting you will be taking it up with the LA and I would then do just that. If you do not fight for your son then no one else will. The good news is that the other professionals in your sons life appear to be good eggs - hold onto that and run with it. Cat

Yes it does thanks for being so patient with me Cat

But even if you gain or get possession of something there has to have been some facilitation by someone somewehere otherwise how would we ever gain or get possession it just does not happen. I apologise if you think I am being pedantic here but I am having problems understanding how you think that children with autism or any disability is ever going to gain or get possession of what it needs to be able to comply with the rules without some input and support. If you have a fixed rate tarrif and make no provision for a child with SEN then surely that would be discrimination? Cat

<'> Sometimes we all reach a point when we will eat a plate full of anything just to make life easier for our children. It's not giving in (I say that because some people will say that we are giving in to our children) it's accepting that our children are no longer coping and that we are going to have to act to prevent things from becoming even worse for them. I am tempted to say that were it I would go and speak to my GP (go to the one who you think will be most sympathetic) and ask him for a sick note for your son. I had one for my son and it means that the LA can not make life difficult for you while you have the note. Ask the doctor to issue a note until Christmas at least. Be sure to tell them that the SPED team has advised you to remove your son from school. If the doctor can put extreme stress and anxiety onto a sick note then that should also give you some leverage to apply some pressure to the LA to find a suitable school. Six weeks into Comp was where it all went wrong forever for my son. If you can get the sick note then there is no need to de-reg the sick note will cover your son's absence. I am saying to go the sick note route because you have said that you are seeing Parent Partnership on Wednesday and this would buy you some time without jumping ship altogether unless you have to. If you do have to I am more than happy to let you know what you need to do and to point you in the direction of a 'must join' SEN home ed group where you can be 100% sure that you will get the advice you will need. Even if you do not always see eye to eye with your Mum she is offering to help and I am sure that you can meet each other half way if you have to. My Mum can be difficult to so I know all about that to. My ex was convinced that there was nothing wrong with our son and that all he needed was a firm hand. That turned out to be the last thing he needed. He was a very sensitive boy who required sensitive handling. Fortunately his step dad has one the extra mile to understand how he ticks although it has not always been easy. We also share an autistic son and he has always been quite amazing with him. I sometimes wonder if it is a fear of the unknown that makes it difficult for some people to accept that a child/person has a disability or an inability to accept anything that is not perfect whatever that might be. I am also tempted to say to you seek some advice from IPSEA or Network 81 they would be the people to help you to fight for the school which you know would be right for your son. They would also tell you that school?s are supposed to make reasonable adjustments for pupils with special needs and that they are also allowed to differentiate the curriculum to enable them to meet the needs of a pupil with SEN. This means that your son does NOT have to do PE if it is making him ill. OFSTED have even written a report saying that any lessons which schools know to be difficult for a pupil should be removed from the pupil. So basically they are spouting rubbish. I have the OFSTED report if you need it. Eventually stress does take it?s toll especially if you are spending your days playing pig in the middle (been there, done that) it's not easy that is for sure. I have an issue with my husband's sister who quite openly showers his daughter from his first marriage with gifts but will not even see our son. My son has even asked himself if it is because he has autism. I have no idea how I would cope if it were my husband who was finding it difficult to accept our son. What is normal anyway? The thing is if you do not rock the boat no one is going to do it for you and I have lived through what can happen if you are fobbed off by a school whose only real interest is in the ?normal? kids who are attending. Don't be afraid of home ed it will not only lower your sons stress levels it will also lower your own. Cat

If the SPED team are suggesting that you withdraw your son then things must be pretty rough. I have a friend who withdrew her son when the school he was attending closed down and she knew that the new school would never meet his needs. Far from the LA sitting there twiddling their thumbs they actually got their finger out and found a suitable placement. I left my son in school until it was too late and he had a total breakdown from which it took him four years to begin to recover. I then had no choice but to home ed and he never returned to thing which was the best thing we could have ever done for him. I firmly believe that some kids with autism simply can not do school. My son was one of those kids. I know that academic results are important but not when the mental health is shot to pieces. If you do get a sick note then the LA will have to put in some form of tuition and it might also help to get things moving. Cat

Hey J's Mum welcome back jlp clearly school are not meeting your sons needs and moving him from one place to the other is not going to help the situation. I personally have no problems with one to one support, because unless a child's needs are being met in a classroom situation then their social skills are never going to improve because the child is too stressed and anxious. However one to one in a different setting because the school can not meet the needs of the child is not a long term solution and you need a long term soloution here. I agree with J's Mum you could do with some help here. Cat

Children with autism do not aquire abilities which most other children pick up in life simply by living it. This is part of their condition, which some posters here think it is OK to ignore. It appears that the important thing is that no child is treated differently regardless of their disability. The disability discrmination act actually says differently thank goodness. Children with autism usually have to be taught the things that their peer group pick up as they grow up. Saying that they have to aquite these abilities is a bit like thorwing a non-swimmer into the deep end of a swimming pool and hoping that they aquire the ability to swim. Some of them wont and they will drown. I thought that inclusion was all about enabling children with disability to live in the 'real' world not making them be the same as anyone else. Cat

Kazzen you have a really good way with expressing yourself I home ed (because of lack of support and because I knew that we had to address our sons aggression) We 'had' a very explosive son who often lost it and lashed out which was or course totally unacceptable. We have taught our son to walk away from a fight but we had to teach him how to recognise that the situation was heading towards a fight and what to do that was acceptable when it was heading that way. To begin with we supplied a kick board that he could come home to kick - it worked like a dream. Now he no longer needs the kick board and the aggressive outbursts that we used to have on a daily basis have now stopped altogether. We took the time and the effort to teach him how to handle situations and himself and that was the key. How can a child comply with the rules when those making the rules do not make an effort to understand the child? And making a child behave like every other child in the school does not make them like every other child in the school. All too often schools try to take the dis out of disability when they should be trying to support a child and thus minimise their disability and how it impacts on the child. Cat

I really hope that you can turn a corner for your son on Tuesday and will be thinking about you and sending positive vibes your way <'> Someone I know once said to me well at least your life is never dull and boring. I don't know about you but I could handle dull and boring given the chance Cat

I actually totally agree that children and adults have to understand that they must live by rules and if they break them there will be consequences. To develop this understanding then surely those who are teaching our children should be doing their utmost to make that possible for them. This is not happening from what I could see in the original post. In my opinion again it is not OK for schools to get it wrong time and time again and it's not OK to practice on our kids until they get it right. The training should have been across the board and manditory before the even uttered the word inclusion. I would never be able to reinforce anything if I believed that my kids had been let down and were failing because everything that could or should have been done had not been done. I am quite happy to take sides with anyone who has the best interests of my kids at heart but not when it's a case of 'our will be done' with people who wont accept that there could be a better way. Cat

If in doubt check it out. Even NHS direct can not diagnose over the phone. They can advise but without seeing the child/adult they can not be sure. My 11 year old plays down any illness he has and I think he does this because things change when he is ill and he does not like change so he tries to go about things as usual. The day after boxing day he became unwell had a tummy ache, high temp and was vomiting. I just had a gut feeling that it was more than a tummy bug. I rang NHS direct and given what I had told them they thought it was probably just a bug but I was not so sure. I slept on it, well not really as my son was awake most of the night but he did stop vomiting and my son said that he felt much better. I decided to take him to the walkin centre. My hubby even said that I was over reaqcting. We were sent straight from there to A&E where my son was admitted with appendicitis. So I as I have said if in doubt check it out. Cat

Guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one Badders - nothing new there then Cat

Baddad I can never quite understand why you always leave the autism out of almost every situation when it is clearly impossible for a child to be able to do this. Inclusion is not about them being treated the same as every other child in the classroom. You will see this if you read Every Child Matters and Removing Barriers to Achievement. It is about understanding that the child has a disability and then making adjustments for that child. Some children might well claim that a punishment is unfair but this usually occurs with an autistic child because of their perception of the events that have taken place. I certainly know that this is the case with my two. If I can manage to get them to understand why they were in the wrong then they will usually accept the punishment. The same rules can not always apply because their is a disability to take into account. I am not saying that disability should ever be used as an excuse. My two get away with nothing. But if I stood eyeball to eyeball with my youngest then he was probably smack me in the face because he can not stand anyone looking him in the eye not even me. If I stood eyeball to eyeball with my eldest he would be delighted because at least then he could see me. The disability impacts differently on everyone and it's all about knowing and understanding trigger points. The trigger points have been pointed out to this school and they are ignoring them or failing to accept that it is the disability which is responding to the trigger and not the child. And that is why I think that a punishment here is out of order. Disability Discrimination Act actually gives examples of what under the act would be considered treating a child with a disability less favourable and what it considers to be reasonable adjustments for a child with a disability. I have used this quote because to me it runs on pretty similar lines to what is happening to this child at the moment. The Disability Discrimination Act tells me that it is very much not a non-issue and that the mitigating circumstances are not side issues. Cat Do not worry Mossgrove Badders and I do not mind a frank exchange of views it will not become heated or personal - promise.

If I was failing to meet the needs of my sons then the first place it would show up would be in their behaviour. Actually been there and done that and still do so on occasion because we all mess up from time to time. The school does not appear to be meeting the needs of this child. Yes he was given detention for fighting in the corridor. However to be given a detention and to be punished because the school is failing to meet his needs is wrong in my book. If the school were meeting his needs then that would be a different kettle of fish as I have already said. I personally think it is wrong to punish a child when the cause of the inappropriate behaviour is stemming from lack of understanding and also a lack of action to take the appropriate steps to meet the needs of the child. Cat

Well I would NOT be sending my son for a Saturday detention and the people I would be sending a message out to would be the school and maybe the SEN bods within my LA. Let's just take a look at what has happened leading up to this. You said but then went on to say The SENCO might appear to be very helpful but if she really was doing all that she can then they would be listening to you about support and doing something about it. It's not rocket science you have worked out what the problem is why can't they? You also said Not really doing their bit here are they. It is well known and accepted that consequences for children with autism, and at 11 he is still very much a child, have to happen as close as possible to whatever it was that needed the consequence applying. Saturday is an age away for your son and as the detentions do not appear to be working anyway then what is the point? The school needs to get their act together and if they want to apply sanctions make them a sanction that has some effect. Socalisation is actually a BIG issue for our kids. I am one of these people who actually thinks that it is probably more important than academic success because without social skills all of the GCSE's A Levels and Degrees in the land will be of no use to the person who has worked so damned hard for them. I have a close personal friend who has 3 degrees and a masters degree but has never been able to hold down a job because socially they can not cut it in a workplace. I one hundered percent agree with you. The cause of the problem is directly related to his AS and lack of support and if you really want to be picky could really be seen as him being treat less favourably than his peer group because of his disability which is discrimination, which is also illegal. I would not be suffering the fall out because the school do not appear to understand that inclusion does not mean that you have to act just like everyone else. I would be asking for a meeting and before attending I would set out where the problem lies and possible solutions. You have here so that will not be a problem for you. If you have a Parent Partnership Officer I would ask them to attened with you and if you have an Autism Outreach Team I would ask they to attend to. We have a fabulous outreach team who fully understand that for most kids with autism school is school and home needs to be home, which means that you do not hand out a consequence which is going to make like worse for everyone in the family. It's not about letting your son win or giving in. It's accepting that he does have a disability and that forcing him to be like everyone else is not going to make him like them. I would be supporting my son here because the message that I would want him to have here is that you are on his side. If the school were doing everything that they could it would be a totally different matter but they are not. Cat

Every child with an ASD is an individual and so I think that it difficult to speak in 'general terms' because they will all present differently when they are stressed/anxious. What I personally think is that when a child with ASD is under pressure and is stressed/anxious it very often will come out via their behaviour. This is a symptom and not the cause and so the cause must be sought. Some children internalise their anxiety while other will have outbusts and tantrums. Either way it is a sure fire way to tell that the child is not coping. I have just written a paper (sorry to sound pompus here) about Inclusion and Barriers to Achievement and I have asked if 'attitudes' are now playing a sizeable part and are one of the reasons why inclusion is not working for so many children with an ASD? I believe that attitudes and an inability to accept that the child's disability might well be the reason for their behaviour and not because they are a naughty boy/girl is playing a part. The teachers may recoginse that the child has difficulty focusing, lacks concentration and then acts up but do they accept why this is happening. I am in no way trying to excuse inappropriate behaviour from autistic children. But if that behaviour is resulting because of 'attitiudes' preventing the needs of the child being met then that is something that needs attention just as much as the child. Cat