CarolJ

Robbie Incisors sharpened and at the ready - ready to give BD some nasty nips!! Banman with an evil glint in his eye - ohh the power (Like a traffic warden outside a school at drop off/pick up time!) BD depsarately clutching his B&Q vouchers!

�5.00 in B&Q vouchers is all I can offer - of course you can have an IOU for �1.50p. Just what is the going rate for holding a forum to ransom?

BD, Banman is on his way over! Take the B&Q vouchers and run why you still have the chance.

Have another bottle of vino BD, helps loosen up the fingers! Tipos be damnned! Enjoy yerself!

WHAT ON EARTH IS THE CHAINSWAW MASSACE??? Forgive my thypos, alcholhol does funny fings cant type, too well just now!

Saddest!

Honesty BD, one crate of wine and the old brain cells start slipping! do I have to quote your posts back, losing your grip mate!

Worn but still in working order! Ahah, reminds me of the two nuns in the bath joke! Where's the soap?

Opps, just got a flood control error message come up! Nothing to do with the inco pads! sorry, BD had to wash & iron my electric knickers! Wanted to look me best for yer! Fancy a slow dance later? If u r capable, after Ben watching Texas Chainswaw Massace, might remove a limb or something more vital! PS this undies are electrically charged, would not suggest pinching em! U will get a 240Volt electrical shock! Take alook at Jester's hair standing on end! That was not BRW's embrance that was me doing the bump! Cheeky girls indeed!

Captn C - when you have an affair with a scottish woman its called a "Highland Fling"[groan] DW could give BRW a run for her money! All those dark winter nights in the Glens and the men in kilts with no undies!

Request for a song pls - decidcated to Robbie! Chaz & Dave Rabbit, Rabbit, Rabbit!

Can we have a bit of karoke. My speciality "I will survive",

Sorry I am late folks - ASM falls headfirst into the Batcave, party already underway, hiccup! Too much wine already - need some hob nobs to soak up the alcholhol! Wassup? have I missed anything? The strains of "Happy Birthday ...." are reverbarating off the walls of the Batcave. Please dont let BRW blow the candles out. We need to eat that brithday cake! ASM wipes a nostalgic tear away, at the sight of the assembled motely crew of superdudes and dudetes what a gathering. Glee , the party is in full swing. ASM strikes a pose and begins the "bump" her party piece (move over Mick Jagger impression!) - poor Jester is catapaulted through the assembled revellers (like human skittles) not unlike moses and the parting of the waves - straight into the arms of the predatory BRW. Unaware of the chaos ASM continues obvilivously to strutt her stuff and bump assembled superfolk with her bodacious hips! A few broken bones and bruises could be the end result of the nights revelling! Next up the hokey cokey!

Nice one Solaris. I will definitely be "lurking" on the board. As you stated before seeing what adults with AS and ASD want think and feel can give me a valuable insight into my own kids.

Oi less of the sparkle drawers - as a man you are just jealous cos you cant make your knickers take on a lifeforceof their own! Back to the subject in hand: I have found a study - claiming a link between MMR and autism. The ironic thing is the information used in this study is the same information that the DoH used to disprove a link - someone else has looked at the same information and concluded that there is a link! ===================================================== Mail on Sunday 29 August 2004 There IS a link between the MMR jab and autism, claims new research EXCLUSIVE By Rachel Ellis, Medical Correspondent A key study repeatedly used by the Government to support the MMR vaccine was wrongly carried out and gave inaccurate results, experts claimed yesterday. The Danish research, which examined the medical records of more than half-a-million children born over eight years, concluded there was no link between children given MMR and the onset of autism. But fresh analysis of the data by four experts to be published this week in the Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons suggest there is a link. The first new study, by Dr Samy Suissa, an epidemiologist at McGill University, Montreal, who looked at the same data the Danish doctors used, concludes that children who received the triple jab were 45 per cent more likely to develop autism than those who were not given it. A second piece of research - by Dr Fouad Yazbak, an American paediatrician - shows a 400 per cent rise in autism after the introduction of MMR in Denmark, even after taking into account greater awareness of the condition. And a third study by Dr Andrew Wakefield, who first made the link between MMR and autism in 1998, and Dr Carol Stott of Cambridge University, shows autism cases in Denmark have increased by 14.8 per cent each year since MMR was introduced. The findings will be a blow to the Government and supporters of MMR who have relied heavily on the Danish study to dispel concerns about the safety of the jab. They come at a time when the Government's immunisation programme is once again in the spotlight following the announcement earlier this month of a new five-in-one vaccine for babies. For parents, the new research will add still further to the confusion about MMR. Dr Wakefield, formerly of London's Royal Free Hospital, now works at a school and research centre for children with developmental disorders in Texas. He believes the Danish study was flawed because it made too many assumptions. "Many of the children in the original study were too young to be vaccinated or too young to have received a diagnosis of autism. That was a mistake," he said. "In order to include them in the study, an age adjustment was carried out but that was inappropriate. It assumes that children we have not ascertained data about because they were too young were representative of the older population. "When the data was reanalysed without the age adjustment, there was a significant excess risk of MMR in children with autism against the controls. The original Danish study has been used as a rod to beat those who believe MMR may be linked to autism. "It was considered to be the definitive study which showed that there is no link. This new study underlines how statistics can be deceptive and misleading." A spokeswoman for the Department of Health said the original Danish study had been reviewed by the Institute of Medicine in Washington and no problems had been raised about the validity of the data. She added: "There have been many other studies that have come to the same conclusion - that there is no link between MMR and autism."

Simon Thanks for this, I have often wondered about aspergers and any regression. As I posted before I have video tape of my son taken before his MMR which shows him giving full eye contact, interracting socially, pointing, following verbal instructions and he was alert and very bright. If someone spoke in the room, even from a very young age, his head would zip round to face the direction of the sound or the voice. He was talking, I have often studied earlier video tape to try ot ascertain whether there were any signs. I have had a friend of mine who is a peadiatric nurse to look at the tape (her son regressed after MMR) and she confirmed that there were no obvious signs. I have often been acused of being in denial but the changes I observed espeically in my son were dramatic in a very short space of time. Tape taken after scotts MMR shows him very withdrawn, non responsive, moaning and rocking his body backwards and forwards. He seemed to cry for six months solidily after MMR. I remember him banging his head against his cot, walls, floors, and generally he was miserable. There was nothing I could do to comfort him. He developed atypical measles followign MMR and dirreoeah, he also seemed constantly thirsty, and his tastes in food changed. Before MMR he had hated fromage frais yogurts afterwards he would eat six in one go. I remember Emma before MMR at 12 months would eat everthing I gave her. Literaly over night she went off of a lot of food and became really fussy. She still is to this day. Both mine seem to dislike certain textures of foods! I know there is no conclusive proof that MMR can lead to autism. there are studies that point to a link but I think the most overwhelming evidence as far as I am concerned is the amount of parents like myself who observed changes in their children. Something happened to these kids - what was it? Those are the questions that are being ignored! We do not have a history of autism, in our family, other half has some traits but I think most people have traits (especailly men if you go for the male brain theory of Cohen), my kids asds are a bolt from the blue!

chip off the old block nells huh, it appeas there are a set of circumstances perhaps combination of several causes that can result in ASDs, what worries me is the amount of kids around now that have ASDs. How is your son getting on? Is making good progress? From what I have read birth trauma is a common factor. Doctors often refer to my long labour with Emma as a causal factor, although she did not appear to suffer distress - she was monitored and was slightly jaundiced, and did not suffer from lack of oxygen and did not ned to go to neonatal care. She seemed fine after her birth and made good progress. I used to often blame her birth but that did not explain the regression she experienced. I had her pead,. on the phone a few weeks ago saying about Emma's birth being a possible causal factor but if it was a birth thing, then Emma should have been worse than scottie, because scotts was a straightforawrd quick normal birth, no complicatiosn whatsoever. I know of many kids who have had difficult births but theydont all go on to develop AS. Sorry Nells - Iam digressing here, I have so many questions and the answers are just not there. On a completely different note I have gotten myself involved in a thread on another site where the subject was kids running amok in public and alot of posters were saying that so many kids were naughty and out of control. I tried to get them to understand about autism and that some of these kids they just dismissed as naughty and their c**p parents could have hidden disability like ASD. I might have been talking a chinese. I was asking them to have an open mind! I had one moaner saying that they would know the difference - the general tone of the posts was anti-brats and if you could not control your child then they should not be out in public! I just tried to bring a different viewpoint to the thread but some people really seem to just want to believe that the child is just an out of the control brat and c**p parents! One moaner said my points were not relevant! Needless to say that is when it got personal! Sorry Nells, I am rambling again.

Supersec Elanaor is right in that aspergers in particular seems to have a strong genetic link. Did you son have late onset regressive autism, in that he appeared to undergo a period of regression after MMR after sustained "normal" development? This is what happened to my kids. Generally these kids are low functioning (my son certainly is), my daughter does not appear to have been as severey ffected thank god but she is still delayed and has developmental delay and a cognitive abiity of half her chronological age. Elanor hun I have a question, do children with aspergers appear to undergo a regression. This is one thing I hve been curious about. Do they at any stage seem to lose prior skills and regress noticably with onset of physical symptoms like dirroeah.

supersec I know the MMR caused my son's autism. The change in him was dramatic and I have video tape and photographs of him before MMR and video tape afterwards. He had a developmental test 2 weeks before MMR and no concerns were raised, in fact he was thought to be ahead of his milestones and was socialble happy smiling chatty little so and so - he was given another one at 18 months because I was so worried about him. My HV thought he had gone deaf because he would not look at her or respond. In short she was shocked at the change in him. I accused MMR and told her it was the JAB. She just said there was no proof and I said my son is sitting here in front of me, he is the proof! For me there is no question that he will have the MMR booster. My exact words to the doctor was I would rather throw him off a cliff than give him the MMR booster. He would stand a better chance of surviving the injuries he would sustain. I told my HV to remove my son from the reminders vaccination programme all together. The reason I know he would react is because my daughter at 4.5 had MMR booster. She deveoped problems with her balance, her speech deterioriated, she had problems with toileting ie she would not ask to go to the toilet and was very withdrawn and just screamed (she was in her own little world) and would just wet and mess herself. In fact she fell and hit a head a few times and I had to take her to A&E. I had a visit from HV saying their had been reports about me from the playgroup she attended and because of the hospital visits (the above signs also point to abuse!). She had had original MMR at 12 months and was just starting to walk and was chatty. She stopped walking and developed a bum shuffle and did not walk again till she was 18 months. I had a sneaking suspicision but dismissed it beacuse I had had along labour with her so thought perhaps it had something to do with that. That is what I was told by doctors and like a fool I believed them. Even at 4.5 I was not sure and thought perhaps it was just a phase, one of those difficult stages kind of things. It took the vaccination of my son and the dramatic change in him to realise that the real reason that my kids have now got problems. In short the decision is yours, scott has had mumps and had atypical measles directly following his MMR. He may have had rubella but since he always getting rashes, non specific illnesses I may have missed it. Both my kids seemed to suffer from ear infection, throat infection, tonsilitus etc etc and were given antibiotics (big mistake on my part) which further compromised their own natural immunity in short they were "sickly" for want of a better word. As time has gone by their health seems to have improved apart from the bowel problems they both suffer with. Measles in a healthy child is not the killer disease that the DoH would have you believe. It is more dangerious to adults and people or children who have underlying illnesses ie leukemia. I would take my chances with the natural diseases any day of the week. At the moment my son has chicken pox and I am glad because he will develop his own immunity (and he is doing okay apart from the scratching) - my daughter also had chicken pox and experienced a developmental growth spurt afterwards. I am hoping my scottie will do the same. As you can see I have very strong views on this subject and have researched the subject indepth,. If you want any info. I have some good literature, just PM me with your email address and I will send it to you. Your husband is probably right about his observations - many people have this niggly doubt about the changes in their child post-MMR. They were fobbed off with autism does not show itself until 18 months but that doubt just does not go away. Autism can take months years to manifest itself after an event. Trust your instincts, you knew and know your child better than any doctor. Sorry, I bet you did nto want to know the life history but I wanted to explain why I have the views I have.

Hi Esther link to univ of sunderland http://osiris.sunderland.ac.uk/autism/ Just call em and they will send out forms and all info.

Opps,

Oh yer, next doors budgie had some very odd behaviours - used to bob its head up and down a lot and kept banging its mirror. I say had cos one of the kids left the window open and my NT cat ate it!

Does the dog run round in circles (stimming) and does it chew inappropriate things ie shoes (pica)? These are sure signs, my cat does this- He also has absolutely zero fear - sits outside the front of the house and if a dog happens to pass he just sits there, does not seem to be aware of danger - he also lies in the road and no matter how many times someone beeps at him he continues to just lie there! I have actually seen a car drive slowly over him as he refused to move - he still continued to just sit there! Of his nine lives I reckon he is probably down to 2!

Hiya Helen, Caroline and Lightening fingers Supersec (who no doubt has worn out many a keyboard - do the letters on your keyboard wear off? mine do - must have sweaty digits!) Welcome to the forum, there is a mine of info on here and the best thing about it is that everyone knows exactly what you go (are going) through - we are all here to support each other. I attend a local SPIN group for parents of disabled kids but I always find it hard work to hold a conversation when my kids are in the room! I think the beauty of an online forum is that you can access it and rant and rave whenever you have a spare moment. I always find it difficult when you have scheduled time to meet or talk to someone. Even having a phone conversation is impossible some times as my son then starts to wreck the house as soon as I pick the phone up or goes quiet, always a worry! Supersec, your minute taking skills would be most welcome in the Batcave. The ravings and rantings need to be documented -if only to prove to the world that we are after all a "little strange". I have noticed however that the inhabitants of the Batcave have recently branched out and spread their inane ramblings on many other threads. How often I go to a thread with a serious title thinking ahh, interesting info here, only to find out ramblings of diseased minds which are discussing topics totally unrelated to the title! Of course I do not include myself in this thread hijacker catagory . Everything I say has relevance to the subject in hand Ahem, time to go I think!

Keep yer bloomers on BRW? - ASM attempts to pacify BRW, who has hitched her hot date special bloomers [with rear escape hatch for emergency ablutions] - BRW has made some modern concessions in that she done away with poppers and opted modern new fangled velcrose, with a proven track record for fast access induced by byriani's and pints of XXXX! BRW fixes ASM with her most threatening - leave my man alone look or else - her bottom jaw is chewing (in true bovine fashion) and the clicking of her dentures adds to the menancing atmosphere! Clarence fixes ASM and BRW with a stare (considering ASM and BRW are on opposite sides of the Batcave this is quite a feat (ref aka squint) Now Now Ladies - there is no need to fight over me, there is plenty of Clarence to go round [wink wink Arrrraarhhhhhh! ASM fights depearately to ward of visions of this squint eyed, bald head with mandatory 3 long hairs combed around his head to attempt to give a fuller look, slipping false teeth - undressed! ASM is overcome with nausea and runs to the batloo to relieve herself of her sunday roast! BRW stands triumphant on the field of battle. She turns to view her prize. Clarence fixes her a come hither stare with one eye, the other eye on the revolving door. C'mere lover boy! BRW beckons with her wrinkly digit. ASM would indeed be glad that she is in fact safely ensconced in the batloo, one could not witness the scene unfolding on the pouffes and scatter cushions of the batcave floor and still retain ones sanity - let along the rest of her lunch! Hopefully Clarence does not prove to have the staying power of an amphibian, otherwise ASM is in for a long night!