BusyLizzie100

It's very, very disappointing, to say the least! When we first got the statement in y6, I actually sat down with the secondary school senco and told her exactly what we felt needed changing when we appealed to SEND. I showed her my version of what the statement should say, and we went through Part 3 together to get it right. The LA eventually agreed to it all before we reached the tribunal. I feel very much that I have been deceived, since nothing of what the Senco and I worked out has been implemented. Interestingly, as i've mentioned in previous posts, my friend approached the school re her son a year later, and was told that the school doesn't take much notice of the statements anyway - they like to do things their way and delegated funding is supposed to allow them to do this. I wish I'd known that at the time, I'd have run a mile!!! Thanks all who've posted, it's helpful. I think that the school is genuinely so thick-skinned that it doesn't realise it's not meeting his needs. I thinks all is OK - he's achieving adequately academically and teachers 'see no signs of his AS or anxiety in class'. yet he's falling apart and there's abundant evidence and documentation showing that. The head teacher is not involved - are they ever at secondary school? The deputy head was involved last year but she wasn't at this review meeting. The Senco is nice, but she has 'so many fingers in the dam' ie to stop the leaks that she faces an impossible task. For us one of the most difficult things is that the school we've identified is in a neighbouring LA. However the set-up is so different that it totally justifies us trying to get a place there. It's a mainstream school with an autism base, which sadly has no spaces, but provides a fantastic resource to the main SEN department in the main school in any case, and there are other autistic pupils at the school with or without statements; and it also has an inclusion unit that provides pastoral care, mentoring, counselling... Ay caramba, it's got his name written all over it! So I think we could build a really good case for saying why this school can meet his needs, because it's just not an ordinary secondary. Although I don't know yet if there are spaces in his year! But at least the chances of a space coming up in a group of 100 is more likely than in a group of four (at the autism unit)... Thanks all, it's so helpful to know that you are out there and care!! Lizzie <'>

So, had the early annual review yesterday and... still confused. Our issues are these: 1. Background: DS1 (age 12, Y8) has a statement at mainstream secondary and the provision hasn't been in place since he started in Y7. This provision is mainly about having a keyworker, daily checkins with keyworker, a safe retreat, support in class (but not 1:1), social skills group, weekly 'additional needs' lesson (for want of a better description - ie developing strategies), weekly session for emotional skills management... and just basic understanding in class and throughout. His main needs are emotional and social, he has diagnosed anxiety disorders and is on anti-depressants. 2. Autism awareness at his current school is pants - we have evidence from teachers' comments. 3. School can't provide keyworker, only a TA to check in on him once or twice a week. 4. There is absolutely NOWHERE in the entire school that can be designated a safe retreat for him - despite the head of autism for the county saying at the review meeting that this is non-negotiable. 5. At the meeting we requested alternative placement, namely a mainstream secondary with autism base in neighbouring LA. Our request was recorded and then we had to set targets for this present school - which is so frustrating because we never move on from this point - it's like groundhog day!!! Yes strategies are agreed but not put in place. 6. Visited said autism base today, the day after the meeting, and I am overwhelmed. It has everything he needs. There are no spaces. However, crossover between the base and the main school is so excellent that his needs could most likely be met out of the unit, especially since there is so much expertise already on site and autism awareness if excellent. 7. Now I don't know what's happening!! The review meeting continued sort of as if we hadn't made the request, and it was agreed we would write a parental working document showing the amendments we want to Part 3 - which isn't masses, it just needs to be DONE! As I said, targets were set... but it all seems so pointless, because I know it won't work!!! 8. I want him at the other placement. What do I do? Do I now write a parental working document that describes the autism base explicitly? Thing is, his current Part 3 isn't far off! But I'm sure it could be more precise... 9. Should I say I want him to go to the other school, it doesn't have to be the unit, but transport would need to be in place - got there at 8.30am this morning in under an hour, which isn't bad - takes my Y6 son 1.5hrs to get to his special school by taxi. 10. Or should I go the whole hog and appeal to SEND for a place in the unit? Help! Lizzie

Well that's food for thought... Thanks, Grace!

With a statement, is it possible to ask for any state mainstream school, even if it's in a neighbouring LA? For example, if we agreed to transport our child to our preferred school, and that school agreed it could meet his needs, is there any reason it's not possible even though it's in another county? I'm trying to cover all the options before Annual Review next week!!! Lizzie xx

Hi, I'm trying to check out schooling in Beds or Bucks and wondered if anyone out there has experiences they could share? Please reply by PM, if so!! I'm particularly looking for a mainstream secondary school (DS1 is coming up to 13, in Year 8) with good practice in supporting Asperger's (Yeah, I know it's like looking for the Holy Grail but you never know... and it can't be worse than his current school!!!) I understand that some Beds and Bucks secondaries have autism bases but there's not much info on the internet; can anyone clue me in? If anyone has personal experiene of one of these schools, what's it like outside the base? - I'm not certain that DS1 would need a space in a base but needs a school with a sound understanding of autism and expertise on site. Cheers, Lizzie x

Just to add that if you subsequently have any issues with the reports that are written as part of the assessment, you have a legal right to request a meeting with the author of the report and the SEN officer. At this meeting you can ask very specific questions about your child's needs and exactly what provision is needed to meet them, even if they have not been specific in their report. This meeting should be minuted and can be added to the assessment. If such a meeting takes place after a proposed statement has been served, you still have the right to such a meeting and can ask for the professional's comments to be taken in to the statement before it's finalised. Lizzie x

Excellent advice from Sunflower. Would just add that the NAS may also be worth contacting - they have an Education Advocacy Service that is excellent. They helped me enormously and really boosted my motivation, too, which is just what you need when the LA is grinding you down! you can get the number from the website. Lizzie x

Yes I think that's all very sound advice, thanks very much! :notworthy: And to make sure it isn't all biased towards the 'school production', we have a marvelous note-taker coming with us too, worth her weight in gold. IT gives us a chance to concentrate on the action. Actually I don't think I've ever been at a review meeting where school has formally minuted it, it's usually the head or senco making notes to use in the report... Lizzie x

Regulation 20(7) (2001 Regs) and CoP 9:17 - copies of all the advice received must be circulated at least two weeks before the review meeting.

The meeting is in eight days. I have already sent in a parental report, and have received the school's report, prepared by the SENCo. (DS1 is in Y8 at mainstream secondary). I have quite a lot of issues with the SENCo's report, such as what she has said about strategies in place and how well they are working... And just to give a flavour of the kind of comments made by teachers, the drama teacher says: 'I do not have any problems with X. It is difficult to make further comment as his Annual Review targets are not applicable to drama.' Eh? Is not drama an ideal forum for learning self-expression and communication skills? What about the social elements required in drama, and the sensory implications of noise, movement and proximity to others? What about gross motor skills? I'm appalled! :angry: After reading the SENCo's report I emailed the professionals involved with my son to find out who is coming to the meeting and make sure that the SEN officer will attend because I don't feel his needs are being met. The SENCo subsequently rang me; there was talk of her having to divide her resources appropriately among the pupils, that she understood that I wanted the best for my son, and me saying that I just want his needs met and if school has a problem with funding then it should be discussed at the AR... I've since made further notes that I feel MUST be discussed at the AR, such as the fact diagnoses of AS and Anxiety Disorders are established and not up for debate, whatever the teachers think! That the statement MUST be read and provision MUST be made, that any debate over funding is not my concern and that the LA MUST ensure the provision is in place; that if any necessary provision is removed from Part 3 to suit the school's budget then we will appeal to SEND... Question is, should I now send these notes off as additional to the parental report, or save them til the meeting and make sure they are discussed then? Lizzie x PS I haven't received the Advisory Teacher's report yet and have a feeling she will produce it at the meeting, although we should have had it 2 weeks before...

Ha ! Yes we are trying to do the same!!!

I think you may be right, Grace!! All I can find is Regulation 19(3) - an authority must ensure that the child's statement is amended so that before 15 Feb the statement names the school the child will be attending following the transfer. I believe the idea behind this law is that by finalising the statement by 15 Feb at the latest, it gives you time to appeal before the child starts at his/her new school. The exceptions you may be thinking of apply to time limits relating to statutory assessment and producing proposed statements, which don't apply in this case because it's a phase transfer, with its own Reg. Is your LA playing silly ######? Lizzie x

It is indeed very common, and very well documented. Of course it doesn't mean that every single autistic child will have different behaviours in different settings; some even do it the other way round and are 'well behaved' at home and much more challenging at school. I have three children on the spectrum, and all behave differently. My youngest (8yrs) seems at the moment to be presenting the same at school as well as at home, ie with challenging behaviour, mainly verbally aggressive and oppositional. My middle one was very passive at school until he experienced, for example, sensory overload or teasing, then his behaviour became more challenging and he would lash out at the other children. As a youngster (he's now 10) his behaviour was very challenging at home but at school his passivity and lack of engagement meant he disappeared into the background. Now that his needs are being met at a specialist autism school his behaviour is much more balanced all round, and definitely improving. Now that the stress of the mainstream environment has been removed, he is much more able to learn how to manage his behaviour. As a result he is so much more tolerant at home and even his brothers have noticed the big improvement...! My eldest son (12yrs), on the face of things, appears to cope very well at school. However he experiences intense and crippling anxieties that are affecting his mental health. These anxieties have been building over the years, and over the years his behaviour at home has become more challenging. He is now on anti-depressants to help him cope with school life. The psychologist and psychiatrist are both clear that he does not feel empowered to express himself at school, which is actually contributing to issues with his mental health, and it is an important part of his statement that his needs are subtle but significant and he masks his anxiety. He is now at mainstream secondary. Because his school are not seeing the anxiety or the subsequent 'release' behaviour at home, they are not putting the Part 3 provision into place. The effect is that his mental health issues are being further exacerbated. Ironically the school IS seeing signs of his anxiety, but they are not aware of what the subtleties in his behaviour mean, and so are not acting on it. (Of course they notice when he vomits in class because of his anxiety.) This could be the case with your son, Manicmum. For example, the teacher is saying that he lacks motivation to learn and sits quietly by himself; perhaps she should be asking why this is. Is your son getting input from, for example, autism outreach? Perhaps strategies could be put in place to help your son engage on a level that is meaningful for him - if school is totally incomprehensible to him, he probably does feel fed up and annoyed and is expressing that at home. His teacher may see no signs of challenging behaviour, but behaviour can be challenging in many different ways. My middle son began disengaging at mainstream to the extent where he would shut his eyes when the teacher was talking to him. He didn't hit her, but he blocked her out and hit us instead, often when he stepped out of the classroom door at the end of the day and we were there to meet him. My advice is that your son's teacher, and probably the school, need more support in how to support your son. I would ask how they are attempting to engage him, what strategies are they using and how are they putting targets together for an IEP. You say he has a statement; is the Educational Psychologist involved? It may be worth asking for his/her advice and input, as well as autism outreach. You say your son has a diagnosis; it's not up to the school to diagnose or re-diagnose, or for any of us to do similar. Hopefully his needs are identified in his statement, the purpose of which is to inform the school so that they know what they need to do. You could also approach your GP or paediatrician about referral to CAMHS, although it seems to be a bit of a postcode lottery as to how good they are. A clinical psychologist with knowledge of autism may be able to identify the differences in your son's behaviour more clearly, and actually express that to school and provide strategies. In the case of my eldest son, the psychologist was able to attend his Annual Review meeting and inform school about his behaviour out of school, and how to interpret the signs of his anxiety in school (unfortunately now he's moved up a year we have to start all over again!). Hope that helps a little. Good luck, Lizzie x

thanks Kathryn! There's no battle over part 4 - not at this stage - it's mainly because our lovely LA is stripping everything out, generalising the needs, generalising the provision... I'm sure one day they'll just produce a blank piece of paper for Part 2 and the same for Part 3... apparently we don't need statements anymore...! Anyway, thanks, I'll pass that on. Lizzie x

I'm posting this query on behalf of my friend... Her daughter is in Year 6 and has just received a proposed amended statement for the transition to secondary. The Review meeting took place in December 2009. Consequently the reports are out of date and, in fact, her daughter now has further diagnoses. On top of that, the amended statement is a farce. Part 2 doesn't name all her daughter's needs, even before the new diagnoses were made, and Part 3 is consequently woolly with very little specified or quantified. Is a pale version of her original statement. My feeling is that the Review itself has not been properly conducted. She should not have had to wait 10 months since the Review meeting for the Review itself and the consequent amended statement to be produced - and now she's not sure, when this statement is finalised, when the next Review should take place?? Because of the 'unreasonable' delay, could she in fact ask that the Review be done again, this time properly, in which case the new diagnoses could be incorporated and a more up-to-date statement written? Any advice gratefully received!! Lizzie x

Yes, I tried that. The adviser said first of all, this is a matter for SEND, til I told him that SEND doesn't deal with non-compliance. I think to be honest I knew more than he did, which isn't saying much! His suggestion was to make a full complaint and then the LGO would see if it could or could not deal with it. So I'm non the wiser. Kazzen, those are good points. That will be one of my arguments, that the school is not meeting my son's needs and why is that the case. If it can't, we would be seeking placement at a smaller independent school. Stupid thing is, this school really SHOULD be able to meet his needs, they just aren't bothering...

I don't really want to be the first to test it out!!! Parts of the provision that are not being done are a weekly 'special needs' lesson, daily meetings with his keyworker, and provision of a suitable retreat area. Basically the school is acting as if the statement does not exist; this does not surprise me with this school because they told my friend, who was considering sending her son there, that they don't really bother with the statements because they like to do things their way. She sent her son to a different school. I wish they'd told me that, I'd have done the same a year earlier!!@! It seems bizarre to think that i actually sat down with the SENCo prior to our appeal about Parts 2 and 3 and went through it with her, with her agreeing to what we were proposing! We have delegated funding in our LA, so I suppose this could be a case of the school not being able to fund the provision required by the statement, though it would help if they came out and said this instead of just pretending it isn't there. At the last, totally inadequate, AR in May, school said the statement was fine, although there was very little progress towards the objectives and it was recognised that there was still 'much to do'. We are now having an Early Review, at the SEN officer's suggestion, in a fortnight. I know that if school cannot make the provision then it's the LA's responsibility, so there could be an argument between the LA and school. However, I just want the provision in place - the above issues haven't been in place for the life of the statement (over a year now). If they do disgree, there has to be some way of resolving it! And this is the point I'm at. I have sent off my parental report towards the meeting and I have said that if the provision is not made then we will have no choice but to complain to the LGO about non-compliance and/or apply for a judicial review. But in practice I don't know how that works!!! Anyway, I will obviously have to wait to see what happens at the meeting, but I just want to be prepared... Lizzie x

Thanks for that. What happens if the reply from the LA is unsatisfactory? I've just spoken to the LGO Advisory line who couldn't really give me answer - he said if it's something the SEND tribunal can deal with then the LGO can't, but my understanding is that SEND doesn't deal with provision in the statement not being put in place. The LGO adviser said it's so complicated, that he couldn't give me answer until they received my complaint, because some elements of PArt 3 provision they CAN deal with, and some elements they CAN'T. So I'm even more confused than ever! And how does the Judicial Review fit into the system? Has anyone gone this far? And what happens if, when the statement is reviewed, the LA decide to remove all the provision they should have put in place over the past year but haven't... even though we argue that it's still necessary? Help!

Where do you go to complain about non-compliance of the statement, ie if the provision in Part 3 is not being made? Is it a judiciary review or do you complain to the Local Government Ombudsman these days? I haven't quite got to this point but I have a statement review in a fortnight and one of my issues is that provision isn't being made, so want to be prepared... Many thanks Lizzie x

That does sound quite promising! I'm glad the meeting went well. <'> Have a lovely relaxing weekend. Lizzie x

Hi Denise, do you think your son could benefit from in-school counselling? Some schools buy into and some don't. My youngest son's school is able tap into a counselling service that is bought in through the extended schools consortium, ie the extended schools pays for it and schools can apply for it and don't have to pay. Counselling can vary, but this particular one is very much like play therapy and is totally child-led, ie there is no agenda apart from what the child brings. The counsellor comes to the school once a week and it's totally confidential. My eldest son's school buys in counselling from a different source, which tends to be shorter-term (six weeks) and targets specific issues, eg anger management, and uses specific materials to work through a programme. This has been suggested for my eldest son, who suffers enormous anxieties, but I don't feel it's appropriate. The first kind sounds much better, I've spoken to them and they do secondary schools too, it just depends on the school as to which, if any, service they use. So even if your son's school doesn't 'do' counselling, it doesn't mean it has to be ruled out. If you think it might be beneficial, try contacting the LA and find out what's available in your area... Lizzie x

Hi Stephen, your comments about CBT are interesting. Is there a lower age limit at which point it isn't so effective, ie do children have to be at a certain point in their development before CBT works? I ask because my son (12yrs with AS) had CBT because of his extensive anxieties, and it doesn't seem to have helped. He was very good at the clinical discourse, but when anxiety-provoking situations occurred he couldn't put the strategies into use and would quickly become hysterical. He still does. Lizzie x

I have considered it but I don't think it would suit either of our personalities! I do think that he could flourish if he were in the right kind of environment, or with the right kind of understanding. They are different children, but I have seen it happen with my second son. He is flourishing in his new school now that his needs are being met. PS Just had a talk with my third son's SENCO today about his challenging behaviour (he's 8), she admitted that at the moment they are not meeting his needs - she reckons that environmental solutions may be the answer, eg his own work station in class. ###### hell, will it never end??!!! Quick edit to say, when will the 'not meeting his needs' talks end, not the autism! I love my boys!

Am I allowed to say?! I'm in Herts. My other son is attending an out of county school, the local mainstream primary couldn't meet his needs after four years there. There is totally inadequate provision for autism in my LA. I'm sure the out of county school has bags of information and advice it would be happy to share, but when DS1's school is arguing against the LA's own specialist EP, it's not going to listen to anyone else...! The school needs a rocket up its backside.

It's a tough one. He's so 'here and now' that his view changes, depending on how he's feeling at the time of questioning. He's told me himself, when I've asked him about something earlier in the day: 'I don't know, that was more than 10 minutes ago!' Maybe we need to have a sit down and do the old 'pros and cons' list. He frequently says that the teachers don't understand autism, and also that he wants to either be home schooled or go to a school like his brother's - a specialist autism school. However his own cognitive abilities are far above what his brother's school can cater for - a specific Asperger school would be great, but is just not available. Where is the hand-wringing emoticon???!! Will have to settle for this: