allsetuk Report post Posted February 28, 2007 thank you for that bullet ...a really useful and interesting perspective - your openess and honesty much appreciated by myself . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 1, 2007 just got my case assessment in full back from the child development centre. It seems a bit wierd as they told me he had severe aspergers when i was there and now have just put autistic spectrum disorder on it - will this affect being able to apply for dla? reading the material noetic put me in touch with , he seems right down the line with some of both asperger and pdd traits ..?? are this is confusing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 1, 2007 im reading more and more about the PDA , but my son fits criteria in both ...i suppose thats wh y they call it spectrum ? picked him up from school only to be told he has been gettinng nippy and angry and clawed someone and then denied all knowledge .... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 1, 2007 But you know something? Lables only tell you what something is, they're not the product itself. That was so wonderfully put <'> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) just got my case assessment in full back from the child development centre. It seems a bit wierd as they told me he had severe aspergers when i was there and now have just put autistic spectrum disorder on it - will this affect being able to apply for dla? You don't actually need any diagnosis for DLA as far as I'm aware. DLA is not about diagnosis but about the difficulty of living with and caring for someone. The costs that come with it etc. Â And about PDA yes I mean all PDDs are similar anyway and it is normal for people to have bits from different aspects of the spectrum. What matters isn't whether he fits 100% into any given subgroup but that he may tend towards a certain "flavour" of autism that does not at all respond well to the usual structural approaches and needs a different approach that has been shown to be successful with other children who have this tendency also. Â By the way Hans Asperger's original description is far closer to this particular type of autism, since he took a special interest in "deviant" behaviour and "malicious children" (all children in his clinic where referred for deviant and violent/aggressive behavioural problems, so other flavours of autism were far less likely to be represented). Edited March 1, 2007 by Noetic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 1, 2007 thank you for this - i am trying to locate a beginners guide to noted traits - the PDA forum seems very quiet on this subject - maybe i cant access it all yet Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bullet Report post Posted March 1, 2007 Allsetuk, my Ds1's diagnosis is just given as ASD and we were granted middle rate care allowance for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 1, 2007 oh yes and my physcotherapist signed my son off yesterday saying he wasnt high priority presumably becuase i seem to be empowering myself with seeking knowledge so he wont be meeting up beyond the one meeting he had with us with regards behaviour which was what was promised at the case assessment. I think i am going to ring back and say can we explore PDA before we sign it off as severe aspergers as something doesnt add up ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 1, 2007 thank you for this - i am trying to locate a beginners guide to noted traits - the PDA forum seems very quiet on this subject - maybe i cant access it all yet It is very quiet! Â There is a little about this subtype in The Handbook of Autism by Maureen Aarons & Tessa Gittens, mainly that these children (like kids with severe ADHD) need novelty and creative approaches to learning, and will feel challenged and put under pressure by approaches that are too structured. If you sign up to that forum I think there is another hidden one that you get to, I don't remember though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 1, 2007 (edited) oh yes and my physcotherapist signed my son off yesterday saying he wasnt high priority presumably becuase i seem to be empowering myself with seeking knowledge so he wont be meeting up beyond the one meeting he had with us with regards behaviour which was what was promised at the case assessment. I think i am going to ring back and say can we explore PDA before we sign it off as severe aspergers as something doesnt add up ... I'd definitely do that, because 'severe' is only what describes his behaviour which resembles severe ADHD and fits with the PDA 'model', not his functioning (language etc. is better than many with relatively mild AS it seems). If he can be provided with enough stimulation and an appropriate structure (that he doesn't necessarily perceive as structure) I suspect the behaviour might change too. Â It's important to address language, social skills and communication issues (because in such children it seems it is often overlooked because they APPEAR so skilled with manipulating people, so hey they don't have problems with language and 'theory of mind' - wrong!), but I really do suspect that he would respond much better to the kind of programme (not necessarily the medication) that one would apply to severe cases of ADHD with oppositional defiant disorder/conduct disorder, e.g. have some rules but stimulate the child's curiosity and get them motivated by 'tricking' him into changing his behaviour rather than using a small set of clear, literal rules. Â I suspect that sudden changes as such are still a no-no. and the environment does still need to be predictable and structured (as it does indeed for kids with severe ADHD in spite of the novelty seeking) but I think if you provide stimulation and novelty and a high level of freedom in the 'smaller areas' of life then he might be more able to stick to your rules when it comes to the more important things (like being nice to people, dealing with not getting his own way etc.). Â Â (I must admit my interest in this particular area of ASDs originally stemmed from my thinking 'Oh I am so not like that, I don't want that to be the same as what I've got' but a few years later and I can see why Asperger was so fascinated with the more apparently callous and 'malicious' children, and why Digby Tantam seems to have such a strong focus on this relatively small subgroup, because it is fascinating and the challenge is all the greater) Edited March 1, 2007 by Noetic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 2, 2007 this is so great , thanks for taking the time to write this informative and useful information. Your very well informed and easy to understant - Now ive just got to get my head totally around it , im new to all this really so thinking ....rather living and breathing spectrum disorder and now i just want to implement strategys but im not sure where toget them especially if the ones issued are in direct conflict with bringing out the best in children , all the hospital told me was to go on the early bird course!!!!!!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenT Report post Posted March 2, 2007 Allsetuk, my Ds1's diagnosis is just given as ASD and we were granted middle rate care allowance for him. We got DLA for J before diagnosis. He gets middle rate care and low rate mobility  Karen x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 2, 2007 I just noticed someone on that forum put up a huge post with tips and suchlike. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
butterfingersbimbo Report post Posted March 3, 2007 <'> <'> <'> i've had problems with friends since el's diagnosis, you do find out who your friends are at times like this! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 5, 2007 just picked up that information on the other site, my sons teacher read through everything and she is realy happy as she feels its much more true to what my son is doing... yay P>S got an email from my friend saying that from now on she will be there to offer advice if i want it and offering peace!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KarenT Report post Posted March 5, 2007 just picked up that information on the other site, my sons teacher read through everything and she is realy happy as she feels its much more true to what my son is doing... yay P>S got an email from my friend saying that from now on she will be there to offer advice if i want it and offering peace!! A double-good day! Great news. Â Karen x Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 6, 2007 just picked up that information on the other site, my sons teacher read through everything and she is realy happy as she feels its much more true to what my son is doing... yay P>S got an email from my friend saying that from now on she will be there to offer advice if i want it and offering peace!! Hey two pieces of great news, I hope you can find more info on the subject, but as long as the teacher is willing to try whatever they can, that's fantastic news! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 9, 2007 hello everyone how are you all ? im ...feeling glum ..i seem to be being heading back to getting regular bad news when i pick my son up ...when he first started school for like the first year , he was alwasy the one being poked , wound up , prodded and generally made to fidgit and went to a xmas party this year where something snapped in him and he has since learnt to wind up back at people but its getting him into trouble, the way he sees it is that they did it and didnt get told off by their parents ......so it must be ok kinda thing , he is a great mimicker in all sorts of ways, but they all seem a bit slicker at hiding their mischief than him so he has been in trouble twice today , once for pinching someones bottom while standing in a queue and then outside in playtime this particularly rough little boy who is very silly and devious and i really dont like my son playing with ...which i know sounds ridiculous but its just hes really naughty and i think it rubs off , ive been horrified at the deviousness this other boy applies at partys so he looks angelic infront of his parents and then wallops someone when the parents back is turned and then blames the other boy , ive seen it myself so many times......so my son got into major trouble today for throwing bark in the playgroud, i asked him why he was doing it and he said it was the other boys "game "so he was just following instructions and my son has strict instructions from me(from many many past experiences with this boy ...) to walk away and tell a teacher but he says the other boy just keeps chasing him round the playground, so he got shouted at today and was apparently distraught for half an hour afterwards..distraught not becuase he was upset at being shouted at but because he had "failed " and been drawn into the other boys badness. i cant relax tonight, i walked into school happy and then just sank into misery again - How can i tell the teachers to police this ???? they seem to have reverted to making no allowances for my son and saying he has to be treated like everyone else ....but with his treading such a fine line of pda and aspergers symptoms, i am feeling confused and bemused!!!!! ...any advice ???? would be gratefully recievedxxxi feel really protective but i need to let the school know how to handle such things otherwise i dont have any input ....but im not really sure what to say  oh yes and funny literal story , yesterday i was in the car sat in traffic , and i said fingers crossed we get through these traffic lights to myself ....after 5 mins , my son says ..mummy why have i got to have my fingers crossed and i turned around and his first finger on his left hand was crossing his first finger on his right hand ...and he was asking me why and how much longer did he have to stay like that !  Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 9, 2007 Hi, Â About the other boy... from what I've read I think you are right in not wanting your son to play with him. With PDA-type kids it is really important for them to have good role models, because as you say they mimick lots and the article by Dr. Newman mentions that they tend to be attracted to naughty behaviour to mimick. Shame the teachers have gone back on their word because it might help if they could supervise playtimes better and perhaps make sure he stays away from those kids. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 12, 2007 totally fed up, sons behaviour is worsening and this is a direct reflection of anxiety at school  i feel he is becoming the bain of everyone else 's bad behaviour, he was threatenend with the black book, a book of bad behaviour that is read out in assembly!!!!! he had to be taken out of assembly friday as he was physically destroyed and shaking through fear of being in the black book.  apparently he has been saying horrible things to other children ...but dont all 4 year olds do this ? ive taught him to verbalise when he is angry and i dont think the children like to hear this  so fed up - rang up hospital they said PDA isnt even recognised ;( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Noetic Report post Posted March 13, 2007 (edited) totally fed up, sons behaviour is worsening and this is a direct reflection of anxiety at school  i feel he is becoming the bain of everyone else 's bad behaviour, he was threatenend with the black book, a book of bad behaviour that is read out in assembly!!!!! he had to be taken out of assembly friday as he was physically destroyed and shaking through fear of being in the black book. That sounds like a DREADFUL thing to threaten a child with especially one who struggles this much with anxiety!!!  Yes PDA is not in the DSM at the moment, I've read in one article that there are up to a dozen 'subcategories' of PDD/Autism that are acknowledged in various academic and medical communities but they are not 'official' as such and I do not know how much is being done to change that. Edited March 13, 2007 by Noetic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 13, 2007 went into school...wrote a 3 page letter to the teacher saying that threatening a 4 year old with delayed consequence like the black book to be read out in assembly infront of the whole school was wrong and that i am trying to alleviate anxiety.son woke up early today in tears becuase it is games (he instinctivly knows what day it is on tues and fri )and he hates getting dressed ...and undressed ;( ive never seen him so sad ..he layed on the school bench curled up in feotal position ...my letter explained they have to be more patient generally with his fidgiting and when i asked why he was getting into trouble every day for poking someone ....or whatever that they needed to explore if he had been poked first and not just presume he is a monster ...he mimicks people a lot and when i said to his teacher that i heard him say he was going to pinch someones bottom this weekend when his friend kept ignoring him after he had said so and so i am getting angry ..... ..she said oh i know where he has got that from ....yet last week he got into trouble for doing it ..so if she knows where he has got it from then why isnt she tackling the source .....she assured me they dont threaten with the black book only if they are in a group but one of the mums told me , that infront of her (the mum) they had threated a child with it ...when i asked her she tried to assure me that the black book wasnt for the 4 years olds and she didnt agree with it anyway ...yet she is the one who implemented it ....talk about confused!!!!!!! me i mean  she also told me yesterday that he had said something so mean to one of the boys that boy hadnt slept for a week !!!!! ..yet i saw the mum of that boy last week and went for a coffee with her and she told me that another well known troublemaker ..the bark thrower!! was in fact the boy who had caused all the problems .....and that anyway her own son fabricated epic stories that were all lies !!!!  im getting so stressed aaaaaghh Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 20, 2007 ok major wierdness going on at school...the letter that i gave to the head of the lower school, she has kindly shown around to every teacher so its "all eyes on me"!" ..i have been told to stop "making such a big deal " of everything ...its like they have turned the tables becuase i complained about the black boook .......when all i ever do is respond to them going on and on about every little slip up my son has made!!! they are the ones who make a big deal about little things and now the headmaster wants to see me - sad thing is he is the husband of my sons teacher so i cant talk openly about anything anyway  ive really had enough ....so wish i could go and live on a remote farm in italy lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
butterfingersbimbo Report post Posted March 20, 2007 have you been in touch with parent partnership? i found them really helpful when i was having problems with the school...also am reading "martian in the playground" and it explains school life and problems really well, as its written by an aspie and has got loads of great stuff in there...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allsetuk Report post Posted March 20, 2007 no i havent heard of parent partnership ...im new to all this really , only got diagnosis in jan ill look them up Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
