Urgent help please?

[Annea]

Hi All,

 

I am just in the process of starting to get serious about moving forward toward a diagnosis for my 3rd daughter. I feel she like her eldest sister may have an ASD but I'm not sure where on the spectrum she is.

 

The question I need answering is this? Like with her sister, the school see no problems <familiar story anyone?> She has a few particular problems and the school say they are not problems, so can I first ask your opinions and secondly can I ask, is there a place anywhere, where I can check which ages are supposed to be achieving what at school? I don't want CATS levels more a case of, an average 10 yr old might be expected to know ABC etc..

 

So these are the issues that are worrying me regarding her education.

She is age 10 and in year 5.

 

She struggles with days of the week, she sort of knows the order but out of context she gets confused. For example she will ask what day is it today? How many days is it till xxxday then? she won't be able to work it out.

 

She can' order the months of the year and will miss out months.

 

She can tell some of the time, but only O clocks

 

She still has not been able to grasp her 2 X tables although she has managed to know most of her 10's. (When she started yr 5 all children brough home a sheet of things they would be working toward, and it said on their they would be looking at 8 X and 9X tables.

 

She has poor spellings and has extra help for this in school, her reading level is higher than average though.

 

She can not multi task so would forget if asked to brush hair and teeth for example.

 

She has poor attention span this is very obvious at home and has been picked up by her physio in different area both 1-1 and in group work, her school say she has no problems with this though.

 

She also has a lot of personal problems and a few mobility problems as well but Here I am mainly ttaling about the academic side of things.

 

SO should I be worried or does she sound like an average 10 yr old as I am told, (I do have two children over 10 but don't knowif they were brighter than average)

 

Any help would be very gratefull received? I am in the process of writing a letter to the senco which needs to go tomorrow so any help this evening very valuable.

 

Anne

[Bard]

I'm in a real hurry, so please pardon any abruptness, no offence meant.

You need to google National Curriculum levels, average Year 5 should be at level 3+, heading towards a level 4.

Your daughter seems to be level 1...weak level 2 which is round about Year 2.

Days of the week and months in order are Y1/early Y2.

Expectation for knowing tables is that by the end of Y2 they know 2, 5, and 10 by heart and out of sequence. New Numeracy strategy has upped that, they need to know all their tables by the end of Y4.

Check out the dfes Standards site to find what Y5 targets are and match them against what you know.

Standards site

Got to go <'>

Edited December 10, 2007 by Bard

[Bard]

Try this link. It will give you key objectives for each year group in maths, it's what we aim for by the end of that academic year.

Key Objectives

If you want any more help, I'll stop running around like a teacher with her b*m on fire around 10.30, so you can pm me if I can help.

[Annea]

Hi Bard and thanks,

 

Can I ask, when I had a meeting with the school last I was told she had the equivalent SATS level of 3 we don't do sats in wlaes but I think they use the testing, just not officially? Not sure if this is right.

 

Have just looked at some of the strategies and it looks like she is struggling with yr 2 and 3 work in some areas, so how have their 'sats' results made it look like she is doing really OK? It's tough but if they are saying she is attaining then how can I prove otherwise?

 

I have just requested a formal assessment of her needs but is their anyway I can have her achievemnts tested outside of school?

 

It's just the thought of going through all this again when I am still fighting for my eldest daughter, it sure makes you tired!

 

Anne

[Bard]

Hi Bard and thanks,

 

Can I ask, when I had a meeting with the school last I was told she had the equivalent SATS level of 3 we don't do sats in wlaes but I think they use the testing, just not officially? Not sure if this is right.

 

Have just looked at some of the strategies and it looks like she is struggling with yr 2 and 3 work in some areas, so how have their 'sats' results made it look like she is doing really OK? It's tough but if they are saying she is attaining then how can I prove otherwise?

 

So they are telling you that she is peer equivalent, and you think that she is not.

I'd take a list of the points that you have made, and ask them politely to explain how a child who struggles with Y2 objectives can be a level 3, on track for a 4 in Year 6. I'd try and nail them down to making specific statements about her areas of achievement and difficulty. Can she read, write and spell all the words from the Y1/2 list in the Literacy strategy?

How well does she understand, explain and discuss science concepts?

Perhaps they will have answers and explanations for your questions, it's very hard for an outsider to judge. She may be level 3 but find recording difficult, or need different strategies to be used to teach her.

I would definitely take my time over getting and understanding the answers that school gave me.

That's before all the organisation, concentration and mobility issues are addressed.

Maybe they are telling you the truth, it is up to them to prove it to your satisfaction.

Good Luck, and sorry that I took longer than 10.30 to get back to you. Off to see if the glue has dried on the three kings' crowns before I try and staple them, then I'm making a set of angel wings for Gabriel.

[Karen A]

Hi.If the LEA agree to a formal assessment then the EP may do cognitive assessments as part of the assessment that may pick up on any discrepancy between levels on paper and in reality.However you would neeed to get past the first stage...agreement to assess.Others here have payed for a private psychologist to assess.However it appears that LEAs do not always take account of assessments arranged privately. Karen.

[Annea]

Thanks Karen, Thanks Bard,

Having just finished the sheep costume I am with with you!!!!

 

As for being peer equivalent, this is actually the words they have used however thats what worries me as our school is mixed age classes, so in my daughter's class she is taught alongside year 4's. As my daughter is one of the older year 5's she is in fact in class with some children who are 18 months younger than her. I worry if the teacher is just not able to differentiate between their abilities. I have of course been tld this is not the case.

 

I have decided to download the key words for year 1 & 2 to see how she gets on.

 

I do buy those home learning books that are supposed to be curriculum books, and in all of these books she can't manage anything more than yr 2-3 in some topics, I just didn't know how accurately they reflect the standards.

 

It seems to me that she only struggles in certain areas, for instance in ordering and sequencing, she has fantastic knowledge in certain science and history areas. Can tell us all about topics they have studied inside out <apart from dates> .

 

It is so hard to feel at logger heads with the school all the time, and their is no trust there. Yesterday I was on the phone to the EP (she is my eldest daughters EP as well as covering the school for my younger daughter) I was on the phone to her for 90 mins before going to collect my daughter from school. When I got to school, I asked the senco if she had a date for me for being assessed by the EP (I was told a dtae would be set for this term but when I spoke to the EP she said she was not due an initial visit till at least the spring term as she was not on SA+ - which the school have told me in writing she is) Anyway, the senco said, "funnily enough I have just been talking to the Ed Psych (names the name of the person I had just been talking to for the past hour and half) about your daughter, she didn't have her diary but said she will get back to me after Christmas with a date" So I said, Oh "when did you speak to her, so she said during the last lesson, I was on with her for quite a while" It seems that the Ed Psych somehow mangaed to speaking to us both at once!!! Or not of course, I knew she was lying and was quite stunned really.

 

I said "oh I will be speaking to her tomorrow, (we have a meeting today for my eldest daughter- hence the preparatory phone call) So the Senco gets flustered and said, oh thats not necessary. and so I go on to say, oh yes we are meeting for my eldest dd, so she then said, oh right so you won't be discussing youngest dd then?

 

It was surreal really as I imagined her desperatley trying to ring the ed psych afterwards so it looks like she was telling the truth after all. But meanwhile I am left with this feeling of, oh no more lies pleeeeeeese!!!

 

Sorry for going on..... an on.... as you know I am going through all this at secondary school level with my oldest and have had so many lies to contend with. I m trying to learn by experience and make sure I get everything right this time as I go along to save time going back and forth.

 

I think I am going to try and get as much info as possible together before I go back to the school to ensure they can't try to white wash me again.

 

Anne

 

(excuse my spellings by the way- so much stuff in my head it dosn't seem to be translating properly to my fingers)

Anne

[Karen A]

Hi Annea.I read your last post and it brought back lots of memories for me of the process of getting assessments and Statement for Ben.Ben is extremely knowledgable in some areas-especially history and science.His knowledge is advanced for his age.School were late in picking up that he might have difficulties because he appeared so bright.He was not significantly behind many of his pears even in terms of Sats levels.However we were able to get an Assessment.The EP did various assessments with Ben and demonstrated that he has processing difficulties due to DCD.Ben has significant support in school even though he is now in the top group in academic subjects.So do not give up...it can be done.

 

Unfortunately schools can have a very narrow view of the sort of children who may need extra support.It is worth remembering when you apply for an Assessment that children can have needs that require support throughout the school day.Some children with AS can do fine in structured accademic lessons but are still entitled to support for unstructured times that are difficult...due to difficulties negotiating social situations.If you think that this could be an issue for your DS then do include information.

I am sorry I do not have any answers re how to manage the Senco.I have made progress over two years....but still feel I have to keep an eye on things and take action every so often when I think attempts are being made to pull the wool over my eyes. Karen.

[Annea]

I looked at the standars site and found approx 146 words that children should be able to spell by end of year 2.

 

We did a mammoth 10 min spelling test and my daughter got 76%. But this is for 2 years below her level.

 

I can't find any words for year 3 but the year 4 words I will do with her tomorrow to see how she gets on <there are not so many>

 

At least it will give me a springboard to start discussions with the school and hopefully they will not try to just brush this under the carpet.

 

Thanks for all help,

 

Karen is DCD like Dyspraxia? as this was one explanation offered as a possibility by her physio, i have never heard of DCD before.

 

Anne

[Karen A]

Hi Anne.Yes DCD =Developmental Coordination Disorder =new wordy term for Dyspraxia.Oh how they like to confuse people. Karen.

[Bard]

I looked at the standars site and found approx 146 words that children should be able to spell by end of year 2.

We did a mammoth 10 min spelling test and my daughter got 76%. But this is for 2 years below her level.

I can't find any words for year 3 but the year 4 words I will do with her tomorrow to see how she gets on <there are not so many>

Anne

 

The NLS spelling bank is what we have in KS2 for spelling objectives.Try this

It gives you termly objectives for each year group.

[Annea]

Thanks Bard,

 

I was surprised at how many of the year 1/2 wrds she got wrong. I said each spelling then put each one into a sentence so she knew the word, but didn't have a clue on some.

 

I have looked at the year three words and know she can't spell a lot of these. I have asked for spelling lists before so these are great not only to test her but also to keep trying to get them to go in.

 

By the way i like your signature, if only more people saw the good in people the world would be a happier place.

 

By the way everyone, went to have the new IEP targets set today and the new acting senco was fabulous. Along with the ed psych I think we made more IEP progress in 60 mins than we have in 2.5 years!!!! At last achievable targets!!!!!!

 

Anne

[Bard]

I was surprised at how many of the year 1/2 wrds she got wrong. I said each spelling then put each one into a sentence so she knew the word, but didn't have a clue on some.

 

By the way everyone, went to have the new IEP targets set today and the new acting senco was fabulous. Along with the ed psych I think we made more IEP progress in 60 mins than we have in 2.5 years!!!! At last achievable targets!!!!!!

 

Anne

 

I'm delighted that things are looking up, it's always better to work with people who will listen to what you need and make suggestions rather than deciding for you.

With the lists, the words fall into different groups. She might not have as much trouble with words that she can sound out letter for letter where the phonemes match what she can read. Those are the words that I teach first.

So... h-e-l-p is easy, was isn't because we say 'woz'

I use the phonic approach first, letter sounds then blends...sh, ch, th and ng to begin with. There are 42 phonemes that we make with our 26 letters of the alphabet.

If yours is a visual learner, then using the shape of the word and matching games will help. If she's good at contexts, then you can teach mnemonics for words like... because, said, one, two, come, some should would and others.

Working with the Senco will help identify which strategies work best.

My son is a visual learner and found phonics wasn't the best method for him when things got more complicated, and his spelling is still a bit wobbly. His punctuation is fantastic, because the rules are fewer and more consistent.

English is a very tricky language to learn.

Edited December 11, 2007 by Bard

[JsMum]

Hi.If the LEA agree to a formal assessment then the EP may do cognitive assessments as part of the assessment that may pick up on any discrepancy between levels on paper and in reality.However you would neeed to get past the first stage...agreement to assess.Others here have payed for a private psychologist to assess.However it appears that LEAs do not always take account of assessments arranged privately. Karen.

 

Hi just incase you do choose to go privately for any assessments even though the LEA wont want the reports in a SANDIST any reports are welcome, so if the school refuse to assess, you can always appeal and take the reports to sandist who will then decide.

 

I think that schools are not admitting to substantially behind children as they know they will need to statement, if they dont recognise they dont have to supply the help.

 

In one of Js records LEA had messed about with the fignures and made it look like J was behind around 18 months when in fact he is three/four years behind in literacy.

 

so do be careful there is sometimes foul play in the system of education, your son is very young and it could be a very sippery road where he could start to become dispondand to education, getting the help now is absaloutly essential for when he start secondary schools, many are starting unable to read, spell and count, why because no one brought it to the attention that these children where struggling, and failing in key areas of accessing there education.

 

I have a few more reports now, none the LEA are particually happy about, I wonder why?

 

JsMum

[Annea]

Thanks JS mum,

I must admit our private reports for my eldest daughter were very welcome at the tribunal for her disc claim.

 

SO far in her statement the LEA are not looking at the private reports, but I have already told them I will go to tribunal on the evidence contained within them, Now I have got through the disc claim it has given me a lot of confidence to go on.

 

Anne