Energy Saving Light-Bulbs

[Mumble]

I read in the paper today that these energy saving light-bulbs have been linked with problems with migraines and epilepsy.

 

I was really intrigued and wondered if anyone knew of them potentially being a problem (given that they are basically flourescent lights) with sensory issues in ASD?

 

I have huge problems with normal flourescent lighting - and I had problems at home over Christmas, but put this down to other issues rather than the lights. But now I'm not so sure, because I was better - reading, tracking, spatial, general 'being' - in the only room that doesn't have them, and (and I wonder if this was a sub-conscious thing a bit like me always wearing blue without realising why) never used the one in the room I was sleeping in but used a side light instead.

 

If there is any issue, what happens in 2000 and something when it will be compulsory for all homes to use them?

[Clare63]

Very, very interesting point, I shall watch this thread with great interest, it could answer a lot of questions.

 

Clare x x x

[Canopus]

Energy saving bulbs are run at high frequencies so don't flicker at 100Hz like traditional fluorescents do.

 

Remember that most energy saving bulbs take a few minutes to reach full brightness so factor this in when comparing to an incandescent.

[pearl]

My only problem is they seem to make the rooms darker

I only use them cos I feel guilty about the planet.

I do have migraine though & honestly havent noticed any increase in them.

[Nic m]

mumble, i use them all over the house and have not had any migraines in ages. i used to get quite bad migraines when i worked at the hospital.

The weather seems to affect me more. good luck with your research.

nic

[krystaltps]

Hmm, never really gave this one much consideration. We use them all over the house (my concession to being environmentally friendly), and have noticed no obvious difference in C... or any of the rest of us. Keep us posted about what you find out though, Mumble.

[Ian Jordan]

energy saving light bulbs can cause all sorts of problems due to their spiked emmission curves - they are not suitable for a lot of people - but too complex to explain on thread

[Stella63]

Hi,

 

Interestingly this was mentioned at one of the lectures I attended. Luke Beardon, talking about sensory issues, advised that they are a huge problem for AS people and there is apparently a petition, not sure if its through NAS, I will try and find out.

 

Stella x

[Bagpuss]

We use energy saving lightbulbs in certain areas of our house, and I don't like them. Feel like I'm squinting, but like to feel we are doing our bit

[Suze]

Wow this is interesting........we have them , just in the hall and on the landing .Just wondered if anyone could suggest good lights or bulbs to use, ,y son has a light by his bed with a blue glass shade which he likes ...is this a good choice ...does anyone know?

[Ian Jordan]

optimum lighting has to be determined for an individual.

 

However daylight bulbs are most commonly the best - get high frquency northlite if poss - but try before you buy!

 

Lighting is extremely complex, from the physics to physiological responses - expert knowledge may be required

[pearl]

We got rid of our landing one as it was a safety hazard, by the time it had warmed up we had already climbed the stairs! Are halogen bulbs energy saving/ok for AS?

[Canopus]

My only problem is they seem to make the rooms darker

 

Spiked emission curves in action. The sensitivity of the human eye varies with wavelength (or colour) and two light sources of different wavelengths but the same radiometric intensity will appear to have different brightnesses.

 

Another issue are the colours of your furnishings. An object of a certain colour only reflects light of that colour. If it is illuminated with light of a different colour then it appears black. Look at a room illuminated with a yellow sodium light and notice that yellow and white objects are yellow and everything else looks black. Therefore, light bulbs with different spectral properties but the same wattage have the effect of making furnishings of a particular colour appear lighter of darker. If you want a bright room then match the colours of furnishings to the colour spectrum of the light source.

[pearl]

If you want a bright room then match the colours of furnishings to the colour spectrum of the light source.

 

I am WAY too stupid to work out how to do that but thanks <'>

[Mumble]

If you want a bright room then match the colours of furnishings to the colour spectrum of the light source.

 

I am WAY too stupid to work out how to do that but thanks <'>

It just means, for the room to 'look' bright, have a blue light bulb and blue furnishings, or a red light and red furnishings, or yellow and yellow etc. Now it would work well for me (if I wanted a 'bright' room) cause I like to have everything in blue, but I'm guessing this wouldn't suit everyone!!!!

[pearl]

But energy savers don't come in different colours do they?

[Mumble]

Thanks everyone for your responses; it's really interesting. It's certainly something to keep an eye on and if you find details of that petition Stella I'd be interested to read more.

 

At the moment it's not an issue for me, as I don't go anywhere that uses them, but it could become an increasing problem in the future when it becomes law to use them.

 

Hopefully someone will have enough influence to make those in charge listen if there is a problem and allowances will be made enabelling people to still use normal bulbs. Given that I hardly have the lights on at all (the dark's more 'comfortable' for me) I'm energy saving without them.

[Mumble]

But energy savers don't come in different colours do they?

Pass

 

(sorry, just been watching mastermind)

[pearl]

Mumble, theres a request you will like over at Davids partaaaay

[Mumble]

Mumble, theres a request you will like over at Davids partaaaay

Is that not taking over a thread??????????

[pearl]

[Lucas]

I can't begin to describe how much I hate them. I must make a list of what is wrong with them while I'm still temporarily insane.

 

1. To this point the best way to save energy in your house was to turn lights on only when entering a room and always turning them off when you leave. But these bulbs take up to two minutes sometimes to fully illuminate, so something as simple as going to the toilet or finding something small you dropped is a nightmare. The only solution is to leave lights on, thus negating the benefit completely.

 

2. When you break one, you MUST call an expert to clear it. The stuff inside them is hazardous. It's like that scene towards the end of ET when those hazmat guys invade their house.

 

3. Sometimes when I'm watching a TV or monitor screen, the frequencies of other light sources 'clash' with it and make it impossible to look at. I'd have to sit at my comp in total darkness if I used them, I'm certain.

 

4. We're not being given a choice. The EU has decided to degree that all members begin phasing them out. Yes, it will actually become illegal to sell them at some point(current laws make it illegal for them to make ownership illegal unless it's directly harmful, or it's infringing on the human right to property). Them liberals still pretend the EU is so not an embryonic super-state and doesn't force it's members to do anything. Grr, liberals *foams at mouth*. No word on wether there will be any exception for any disabled persons.

 

5. The Galactic Empire had glow panels. These are so obviously super-advanced versions of the energy-reduction bulbs. Not once did I see The Rebel Alliance kit out their bases with glow panels. This makes it obvious that glow panels and their cousins are evil whilst lighting big Jedi temples with hot, enviroment-destroying candles is just the will of the Force.

Edited January 5, 2008 by Lucas

[Canopus]

I find this EU ban on incandescent bulbs very worrying. Exactly which incandescent bulbs will be banned because there are hundreds of types? Here are some situations where there are no alternatives to incandescents.

 

1. Small bulbs like the candle or golf ball size used in certain light fittings that can't accommodate existing low energy bulbs?

 

2. Appliances such as microwave ovens and sewing machines have their own special bulbs.

 

3. Halogen spotlights are technically a type of incandescent. They have special interconnects to prevent ordinary bayonet cap bulbs being used in fittings for halogen bulbs and vice versa.

[Ian Jordan]

LED bulbs will soon be powerful enough to replace incandescent bulbs

 

The problem will be which one?

 

There is a light that I designed a few years ago in conjunction with diverse technologies which can give the best colour illumination for everyone - the Optimeyes. You can adjust the colour to match your retinal responses and the environment. It is expensive though - around �300 and can be found easily on the internet.

For those that understand it covers around 75% of colour space with optimised triangulation. Saturation is independent of luminosity.

[Mumble]

LED bulbs will soon be powerful enough to replace incandescent bulbs

But is it going to be a ban on icandescent bulbs, or only energy saving bulbs that will be allowed to be sold? From what I've read (which is admittedly limited), you will only be able to get energy saving bulbs and not others. Some groups of people (epileptics have been mentioned by name) will be exemt, but I can see that people who are allowed to buy incandescent bulbs having to source them from vastly over-priced sites as they won't be regularly available.

 

Canopus - you're totally right. My mum currently has dimmer switches on the lights in one room and so still uses incandescent bulbs here. I really like the dimmer lights because so long as I'm in the room myself I can make it suitable to me. Yet she will actually have to have these light fittings replaced in the near future.

 

Lucus - I love your post!! The first point is particularly salient. I wonder if anyone has calculated whether energy-saving bulbs actually save energy given the different ways in which they have to be used? They may for people who have always just left the lights on all the time, but I don't think the majority of people do this. Would be very interesting to know.

[pearl]

5. The Galactic Empire had glow panels. These are so obviously super-advanced versions of the energy-reduction bulbs. Not once did I see The Rebel Alliance kit out their bases with glow panels. This makes it obvious that glow panels and their cousins are evil whilst lighting big Jedi temples with hot, enviroment-destroying candles is just the will of the Force.

 

love it!

 

1. Small bulbs like the candle or golf ball size used in certain light fittings that can't accommodate existing low energy bulbs?

 

Yup - I have several of these, & most of them attached to dimmers, too.

 

1. To this point the best way to save energy in your house was to turn lights on only when entering a room and always turning them off when you leave. But these bulbs take up to two minutes sometimes to fully illuminate, so something as simple as going to the toilet or finding something small you dropped is a nightmare. The only solution is to leave lights on, thus negating the benefit completely.

 

Eggzackly, Lucas. We gave up on our landing light cos it was dangerous, & have halogens there now.

 

I heard this item on the Today programme this morning. Its 1 hr 55 mins in. Didnt know flourescents could make eczema worse.

[Canopus]

A thought has run through my mind that a ban on incandescent bulbs will create a black market. Bulb dealers will turn up in backstreets at 2AM like drug dealers and illegally sell to some desperate member of the public a 100W pearl bulb for �10 that could have been bought a few years previously from B&Q for just 50p.

[pearl]

A thought has run through my mind that a ban on incandescent bulbs will create a black market. Bulb dealers will turn up in backstreets at 2AM like drug dealers and illegally sell to some desperate member of the public a 100W pearl bulb for �10 that could have been bought a few years previously from B&Q for just 50p.

 

The higher the wattage, the higher the price!

[pearl]

LED bulbs will soon be powerful enough to replace incandescent bulbs

 

The problem will be which one?

 

There is a light that I designed a few years ago in conjunction with diverse technologies which can give the best colour illumination for everyone - the Optimeyes. You can adjust the colour to match your retinal responses and the environment. It is expensive though - around �300 and can be found easily on the internet.

For those that understand it covers around 75% of colour space with optimised triangulation. Saturation is independent of luminosity.

 

�300?????

Does it make toast as well?

[Ian Jordan]

�300?????

Does it make toast as well?

 

my version that i use in assessments cost over �250 000! - so its very cheap

[Mumble]

I heard this item on the Today programme this morning. Its 1 hr 55 mins in. Didnt know flourescents could make eczema worse.

Bloomin 'ek. I had really bad eczema flare-ups over Christmas - I put this all down to stress. I'm wondering if they may e a bit more to it

 

Is it me, or was the middle guy, the 'light expert' a bit of a wally??? Could he not see that many people would be priced out of buying 'special' lights or do a bit of research - it was where he said about people who have probs with flourescent light also having probs with daylight that I thought, hang on, not sure here . . .

 

The higher the wattage, the higher the price!

Funny, but unfortunately potentially a true picture. It amazes me the extent to which normal flourescent lights are used in schools in particular (and my library ) when we do know something of the problems these cause many children. What probs are we setting up for the future???

 

Does it make toast as well?

Well Ian's light didn't make toast, but it did make a rhino appear in the room!

[Tally]

I hate energy-saving bulbs. They are not very bright, and I get a headache after a couple of hours under one. I have thrown them all away and replaced them with incandescent bulbs. I am stocking up in preparation for the ban. The other thing you can do is replace all your light fittings for halogen ones, but that is rather expensive!

[coolblue]

Bloomin 'ek. I had really bad eczema flare-ups over Christmas - I put this all down to stress. I'm wondering if they may e a bit more to it

 

Is it me, or was the middle guy, the 'light expert' a bit of a wally??? Could he not see that many people would be priced out of buying 'special' lights or do a bit of research - it was where he said about people who have probs with flourescent light also having probs with daylight that I thought, hang on, not sure here . . .

Funny, but unfortunately potentially a true picture. It amazes me the extent to which normal flourescent lights are used in schools in particular (and my library ) when we do know something of the problems these cause many children. What probs are we setting up for the future???

Well Ian's light didn't make toast, but it did make a rhino appear in the room!

 

Tried to reply to Mumble's post yesterday - reply appeared to work OK, but had disappeared later. Just testing now.

[coolblue]

Bloomin 'ek. I had really bad eczema flare-ups over Christmas - I put this all down to stress. I'm wondering if they may e a bit more to it

 

Is it me, or was the middle guy, the 'light expert' a bit of a wally??? Could he not see that many people would be priced out of buying 'special' lights or do a bit of research - it was where he said about people who have probs with flourescent light also having probs with daylight that I thought, hang on, not sure here . . .

Funny, but unfortunately potentially a true picture. It amazes me the extent to which normal flourescent lights are used in schools in particular (and my library ) when we do know something of the problems these cause many children. What probs are we setting up for the future???

Well Ian's light didn't make toast, but it did make a rhino appear in the room!

 

 

OK, trying again. Just to say that the 'middle guy', the 'light expert' is bona fide. We took our son to see him a few weeks ago and he identified the cause of his reading difficulties within minutes of him walking in the door. The 'special' light he mentions is not a light bulb, it's a piece of high tech kit on which you can adjust the wavelength (colour) of the light precisely to suit your own needs. Full spectrum lights for treating SAD are around �200, so this doesn't seem outrageously expensive in comparison. All technologically complex equipment with low take-up is expensive initially (think early Sony walkman/first PCs).

 

Our son reads better by blue light. I can't read anything under blue light. Intrigued by this, we bought some coloured LED bulbs to experiment with ? being careful as blue light is thought to cause macular degeneration. I mentioned this to our Parent Partnership officer when she came round to drop off some paperwork. She tried the blue light and was astounded. She could read text that she normally needs specs for. If you want to check out the research, you could search for <<blue light melanopsin>> in Google or Google Scholar.

[Mumble]

OK, trying again. Just to say that the 'middle guy', the 'light expert' is bona fide . . . The 'special' light he mentions is not a light bulb, it's a piece of high tech kit on which you can adjust the wavelength (colour) of the light precisely to suit your own needs.

Fair enough, I don't know him. But if the 'speacial light' he talks about is the one you describe, that's not an alternative to lightbulbs, leaving people in the same position.

 

blue light is thought to cause macular degeneration.

OK, you've got me worried now.

[coolblue]

Sorry Mumble - no intention of worrying you. There's a lot of evidence to suggest that some people benefit from increased exposure to blue light; it can help with motor control and with regulating the body clock (it supresses melatonin production, which means it wakes us up). There's also evidence that people respond to blue light differently, presumably because we have different numbers of blue-light-responsive cells in our retinas. I haven't come across any research into macular degeneration (most common in the elderly) which looked at which groups of people got it. It could be that people who need more blue light don't get macular degeneration when they're older. I guess the upshot is that exposure to short periods of blue light, particularly in the morning, can be beneficial, but if you shut yourself in a darkened room with a blue light all day, it would play havoc with your eyes as well as your sleep patterns.

 

As for the Optimeyes system, it means you can alter the light to suit you perfectly, or presumably change it for different family members. You still might benefit from using a different coloured light bulb, even if it's not precisely the best match for you. I always find LED or halogen lights much more comfortable than fluorescent ones anyway. The most comfortable colour for me is yellow-green which means normal yellowish artificial light comes pretty close.

 

Hope this helps!

[smiley]

We can't use them - we tried for a bit.

 

M felt sea-sick whislt the bulb was brightening - and doesn't like the 'weird shine' (??) from them. He felt the walls were coming in and got very claustraphobic. He couldn't read under them.

They gave me headaches whilst they were brightening - although once 'lit' they are fine.

 

Love, The Odd Bunch

[Ian Jordan]

High intensity blue light has been linked to macular changes, but it is the energy levels at the retina that are likely to be important. However, using tinted lenses does not increase the amount of blue light in the specific frequencies, it reduces it - in other words the unfiltered light is more risky.

We now know of well over a hundred physiological effects of light and colour. SAD lights are MUCH higher intensity blue and even in these it is likely that the beneficial effects outrweigh the potential risks massively.

 

But there are lots of problems associated with inappropriate lighting and visual environment - but this is a massive subject

[Nic m]

There was an article in my sunday rag today about these lightbulbs, saying they can cause an increase in eczema.

nic

[Canopus]

There was an article in my sunday rag today about these lightbulbs, saying they can cause an increase in eczema.

nic

 

Do you believe everything the sunday rag says?

 

Reflector bulbs can't easily be replaced by low energy bulbs. The LED bulbs aren't powerful enough and the fluorescents give the wrong beam shape. Is there a low energy version of the silver crown reflectors yet?

 

LED golf ball bulbs are now available but I haven't tried them out.