He's so negative

[oxgirl]

Jay is really driving me mad at the moment with his negativity. Every single thing that comes out of his mouth is about how he can't do this or he's rubbish at that and it's really waring me down. Even when I praise him for something and tell him he's done well, he'll squash it by coming straight back with a negative, 'yeah, but............' and adding some negative statement to bring it down. I'm trying to work with him on his tables every evening and his attitude is so destructive that it's almost impossible to work with him, he's determined that he's a failure at everything, that he can't do anything right that he's rubbish at everything and I just can't get through to him. Of course, what he's doing is making double sure that he actually DOES fail because he's so unwilling to try at anything.

 

How can I break this cycle??

 

~ Mel ~

[Mumble]

How can I break this cycle??

Hi Mel

 

This is a really difficult one, unfortunately. In many ways your post could be describing me, though it's something I'm really trying to work on this year, although I have found in doing so, that my characteristic negativeness has been ingrained in what others think I will say that it can bring me back into that cycle if that makes sense.

 

For instance, I have a fantastic supervisor at university. He knows that I find it really hard to see the positives, that I tend to focus on what's wrong/what I haven't done. I think it helped him to have this written in my needs report too. But his way of dealing with it is sort of to get in there first - he recently said "well I know you'll disagree with me but this work is fine so I'm not going to get into a discussion about it". And then he moved on to the next thing. I guess in a way it helps because I have to shift my attention, but not always easy. We might have 'finished' that discussion, but I'm still having it with myself in my head.

 

For me I think, the negativity stems from constantly being told I was useless/rubbish/not normal/wouldn't get anywhere both at home and school. It's quite difficult to think differently when you're getting the same message over and over again. That combined with a perfectionist thing I have going on with the AS makes for a difficult combination.

 

I don't think I've been very helpful, sorry. What I don't find helpful is people saying my work's fine when I'm seeing it negatively - I just think they are lying/trying to be nice and that confirms for me that my work is rubbish. So in many ways, I think my supervisor has it right "not having that discussion" but it does leave me feeling a bit 'flat' and unable to judge the quality of my work. I think this is a really really difficult one and probably something to work through together rather than 'solve'. I too could always come back with something against anything positive said. I've never thought about it annoying the other person. I don't know how he feels about his DX, but understanding has helped me. Knowing why I feel as I do allows me to think of ways of doing something about it.

[Cat]

I'm trying to work with him on his tables every evening and his attitude is so destructive that it's almost impossible to work with him,

 

I presume that you are working on tables because they are something that he needs to improve on?

 

That kind of underlines what he is saying and so I can understand why he is being so negative. Yes it is a fine line and difficult but I personally think that autistic children need time to chill so much more than NT children. Working on things with them out of school just continues to add to the pressure he may feel he is under.

 

I would be inclined to say OK so what FUN thing can we do tonight that you will enjoy.

Edited January 13, 2008 by Cat

[Flora]

Mel, Bill is exactly the same. He doesn't react positively to praise, in fact it seems to make him feel uncomfortable. His home tutor is currently working through his tables with him too. I've tried teaching him myself, but it's a non-starter. I know now I can never teach him myself because he has such low self-esteem when it comes to academic stuff that it overwhelms me with grief and I don't know how to move forward. He knows when he's being patronised (ie if someone praises him for his hard work even if he hasn't achieved the objective... it drives him mad).

 

I wish I had some answers for you. I admire your fortitude in being able to continue trying to teach him in the face of his negative opinion of himself.

 

I can remember being exactly the same when I was younger. Our next door neighbour was a maths teacher and used to give me extra tutition in maths as it was a subject I really struggled with. I remember learning the tables by rote so many times and I still don't know them!!!! I thought I was completely stupid when it came to maths. When I was still at school I had a Saturday job working in a shop and used to literally break out in a sweat trying to work out how much change to give people!!

 

I learned to cope with my weak areas by laughing at my self and making a joke about it. In my Saturday job I would write everthing down then work it out on a calculator. I would explain to customers that I just wanted to make absolutely sure they weren't short changed, and they appreciated that even though they had to wait a bit longer. It still a problem and I avoid having to work number problems out in front of people (always pay with notes as I feel embarrased counting out change in front of people when I'm paying for stuff).

 

going back to your original question. Dealing with negativity. I wish I had some advice Bill is so down on himself with school work so I know exactly how you feel, it's absolutely horrible.

 

Flora XXXX

[oxgirl]

Thanks for the response, Mumble. <'> The difference with Jay, I suppose, is that the negativity seems to come from himself. It's not being reinforced by others and he's not told he's no good at stuff he just feels that he is. It becomes a very vicious circle, because he feels he can't do something and instead of trying to work towards achieving it (which is, after all, what he wants) he just gives up and, therefore, feels that he's a failure because he hasn't succeeded at it!

 

He has a very extreme reluctance to work on things because of his fear of failing, I'm sure. The trouble with that is that he then can't do it (whatever it is) because he hasn't tried and that then seems to confirm his view that he can't do things - ANYTHING. Of course, getting him to understand that if he worked at it he WOULD succeed falls on deaf ears. He WANTS to do things but he hasn't the sticking power to really put an effort into it, so in a lots of ways, he fulfilling his own expectations of himself, i.e. he's failed. He's almost MADE himself fail.

 

The reason I find it so frustrating I suppose, is that it takes so much effort on my part to maintain a cheery disposition in the face of all this negativity and I end up just feeling why do I bother, when everything I say is just shot down in flames, it makes me want to give up as well, I suppose because nothing I say can make a difference.

 

~ Mel ~

[oxgirl]

I know what you're saying, Cat, but the thing is he NEEDS to improve his tables and he WANTS to succeed at them, he WANTS to know them. If he succeeded at them he'd feel better about himself but it's easier to just give up and wallow in self pity and that fact that he CAN'T do it! Well, of course he can't do it if he doesn't try!

 

If I could get him to cooperate and really work together on them then he WOULD succeed and he would grow in confidence and self esteem. It would be so easy for me just to forget it and sit and watch fish with him instead, but how would that help him to succeed at something he needs to succeed at, it would just confirm to him that giving up and doing something else is the easier option because he wouldn't have to try and wouldn't have to risk failing and I think that would just add to his feelings of failure really.

 

~ Mel ~

[oxgirl]

Thanks Flora, sorry to hear you're going through the same. <'> I guess part of it is a teenage thing, but Jay has always been like this really. He'd always panic at the thought of trying something and disolve into silliness as a way of avoiding doing anything that was in any way challenging. The trouble with that is that he's successfully avoided tackling things for so many years that he's now way behind other kids his age and feels a total failure at everything as a result because he recognises that he can't do things they can. Because he never put effort in early on and tried to achieve things when he was younger we've ended up with a 14 year old who STILL can't tie his own shoelaces and STILL can't ride a bike, etc. and it's almost too late, it feels, because he now feels so bad about his perceived failures that he's even less willing to try than he was before. I really don't know a way forward. I so wish I'd found a way to encourage/push him when he was younger, because if I could have found a way then by now he might have achieved some of these things and wouldn't feel so bad about himself.

 

~ Mel ~

[loobylou2]

Hi Oxgirl, my daughter is just the same she will be 14 in a couple of weeks time and has the same attitude as Jay. The heartbreaking thing is that they seem to prevent themselves from enjoying anything as they believe they are no good at it. She feels that she is struggling in all her subjects when in fact she is in the top sets for all lessons apart from maths which she is in the middle set for and is actually in the most ably talented groups for 3 of her subjects! Yet she continually says she is useless at school The more we try to tell her she isn't useless' the more she gets her back up and gets upset. Wish there was an easy answer to this.

[oxgirl]

Thanks loobylou2, it's hard isn't it. <'> Like Mumble said, it could be a perfectionist thing. I do remember when Jay was two he would never draw, he used to get so distressed. If he was asked to draw a picture, he'd look at it and point and say, 'that shouldn't be there, that's wrong', he had a picture in his mind of how he wanted it to look but couldn't make it come out like that on paper and he'd get so frustrated with himself. He found it easier to just not draw at all and I think this attitude stuck with him and has haunted him throughout his whole life really. I just wish I knew how to help him to change his attitude a bit, but I guess if that's how he is then it might not be possible for him to change.

It is very sad, because, like you say, they make themselves fail really and then they feel bad about themselves because they've failed and it's so unfair and sad to watch.

 

~ Mel ~

[Bard]

I really don't know a way forward. I so wish I'd found a way to encourage/push him when he was younger, because if I could have found a way then by now he might have achieved some of these things and wouldn't feel so bad about himself.

 

~ Mel ~

 

Now you're beating yourself up, and that won't do. If you'd pushed him when he was younger, you could now be paying for serious psychiatric help for him, or he could be suicidal. Or he might be riding a unicycle and juggling in the high street. You don't know, and you never will. You are doing the best you can with what you have and what you know.

B couldn't tie his shoelaces for years, and he still can't ride a bike, and I don't feel that it's a problem and neither does he. As a parent who went back to work when G was 4 months old and not weaned, and then again when B was 6 months old, I could take a PhD in parental guilt, feelings of inadequacy, and 'If only I could find the magic button that would fix things' Dammit, I could run the course!

Living with a permanent Eeyore is hard, OH can be a lot like that. B is very upbeat, with moments of rage and fury. It's harder to have a negative child than a partner, because you feel that as the parent, as the adult, you should be able to sort things out. You feel that you fail if you don't.

You are a caring, loving mother who has spent months building up your son's confidence, so that you can leave him in the house alone. And it worked. It's hard to live with someone who won't see the upside, the possibilities and even try.

Even more so when, unlike a partner, you can't throw things, yell or go on a three day spree.

This will pass, give yourself a break. Let him be gloomy for a while. Spring is coming.

[oxgirl]

Thanks, Bard, for that. <'> I think you're right, that's why I feel so bad, 'cos I feel like I should be able to fix it for him and make him better. Reality is, I guess, that he's growing up into his own person and I can't make him what I'd like him to be, even if that's only to be happy. He has to find his own way and take some responsibility for his own happiness I guess. It's very hard to see him like this though.

 

~ Mel ~

[Bard]

Thanks, Bard, for that. <'> I think you're right, that's why I feel so bad, 'cos I feel like I should be able to fix it for him and make him better. Reality is, I guess, that he's growing up into his own person and I can't make him what I'd like him to be, even if that's only to be happy. He has to find his own way and take some responsibility for his own happiness I guess. It's very hard to see him like this though.

 

~ Mel ~

 

I have it with NT nerd daughter, less often now she's at 6th form because she's with people who don't mind her being different to the average 16 as much as school did. When she gets locked into a downward spiral, it's so hard to help her break out of it, and it hurts to watch and listen. <'>

[Louisa]

Hi

 

My daughter (14) is exactly the same too. She will not believe absolutely anything good about herself.

 

Every compliment she gets, she says ?I?m not really good at that?, or ?I?m not pretty, they?re just being polite?. She is currently out of school and waiting for a diagnosis but when she used to get really good school reports from her teachers (except the SENCO, but that?s another story), she used to say, for example ?I?m no good at French, they just put the same thing on everyone?s. She has the same sort of comment for every bit of praise she used to get.

 

Like Jay she comes back with a negative for everything and won?t try anything new or go anywhere because of no confidence.

 

All I can say is keep trying with him and try to get him involved in as many things as possible. ? Good luck.

[Canopus]

I'm sure this is all undiagnosed depression. I went through similar phases myself with things that I was no good at and I became reluctant to put any effort in unless I could see a reason for it apart from impressing others.

[oxgirl]

Thanks Bard, Louisa and Canopus.

I'm sure he is depressed, yes, just have to plough on and keep reassuring, I guess.

He is making good progress with his tables, although he's reluctant to admit it. Today I randomly asked him what 4x8 was and, after the tiniest hesitation, he came back with the right answer, so that's real, real progress that he can't deny. Hopefully it will boost his confidence when he sees that he is succeeding.

 

~ Mel ~