Please please please

[rocketgob]

can someone give me some advice / ideas about how to deal with Charlie's behaviours? It has been confirmed now that he is HFA BUT not sure where he sits on the spectrum yet and we have to wait til March / April to find out and get help. I can't wait and I am FED UP with people telling me that I have no control over him. I am desperate for some suggestion as to what approach to use when he is doing unacceptable things ... for example he bit his 11 month old sister on the arm 2 nights ago. he kicked his brother in the face. All for no reason - on both occassions he wasnt even in the same room as them - he just ran in and did it to them! I have had to come home from toddler group today cos the "looks" had started again from the other parents as he had a major wobbly because someone moved a car out of a line he was making.

 

I just need some suggestions - all they told me is "things like the naughty step don't work" (like I hadn't figured that already!)

 

HELP!!!!

 

Sarah x

[Suze]

I found toddler groups very hard to deal with.........tumble tots was a particular nightmare that still sends shivers down my spine.IF you feel comfortable it might help to let parents know if he has a "moment"..that he has been dx as HFA and struggles in such situations.You may find some parents helpful.If not st*ff em........their kids are probably the perfect ones anyhow! .I,ve found over the years that you develop a thick skin ..you just get used to the looks and tuts.During a meltdown in tesco with my son when he was 6 I once asked a woman who was staring if I "HAD A CHICKEN ON MY HEAD???".....................she soon looked away .......a sense of humour helps.......well sometimes.

What I did with my boy when he was violent when he was younger was immeadiately remove him from the situation.....so if we were at playgroup we left , if he was in the lounge hitting his sister I scooped him up and put him in his room door shut.Then obviously comforted his sister.He used to have a meltdown and scream in his room, then when he was quieter I,d talk through the hitting and explain it was never allowed.I found the age 3-6 really difficult as emotionally and socially they are so behind their peer group.My son had little understanding of how hitting could hurt , but I just kept telling him he must never hit.It was harder if he was angry at the time as the violent behaviour was a release for him.Take care suzex.

[Karen A]

Hi Rocketgob. <'> <'> It sounds like you have had a stressful morning.

I found that firm clear consistent boundaries carried out as soon as possible helped....but it did take time.Unfortunately Ben got more frustrated and upset before things improved.I felt that it was important to be firm and clear that hitting is not acceptable because Bens brother was also often the one that was on the recieving end and to not act gave his brother the impression that he should just accept it.

The other thing that may help if the difficult behaviour develops at particular times of the day or in particular situations is to see if you are able to see a pattern.If specific things trigger difficult behaviour then you may find you can distract Charlie or alter the environment to prevent him getting distressed or frustrated.

I think the other difficulty you have is how to deal with other people who can be very unhelpful in either saying things or giving ''looks''.

People have different ways of dealing with onlookers.Some people decide to give people some basic information to explain that their child is not just being badly behaved.I don't know how well the parent and toddler group is lead.If you know the leaders or the ''significant parents /carers '' in the group and they are helpful it may be worth having a chat with them.If they understand Charlie then they may be willing to offer some moral support if difficult situations occur.

There is a lot of information to take in in the early days of seaking to obtain a Diagnosis and it is an emotional time.Please do not expect too much of yourself. <'> Karen.

[rocketgob]

Thank you for that and @ the chicken!!!!!!

 

There is no point trying to explain or reason is there? Sorry I sound like a right numpty but I guess I am on a sharp learning curve (just as you have all been). All I did was tell him no biting and put him in his pyjamas and took him to bed. That was a shock enough I think as he normally goes up with his brother and all he did was fell asleep. My interferring SIL says it doesnt matter if he is autistic he still has to learn right from wrong ... I have given up trying to explain to her (obviously she has 2 perfect kids herself )

[Kinda]

rocketgob,

 

Our son had similar issues when smaller and we used to dread going round to other houses where there would be children or the playgroup he was in.

 

I guess like our child he isn't too troubled by his own behaviour its just the other children, parents and of course yourself.

 

We couldn't control him as you can't be over them 24hours a day every day. He was eventually accepted into a "special school" and following his stint there he came back with better social skills and we no longer had to sit in dread waiting for the screams.

 

I'm not sure what they did for him at his special school but would guess it was closer monitoring and swift correction when he stepped over the mark combined with plain just growing up. Here is your dilema if you go to the playschool with the problem they may ban him and so perhaps saying something along the lines that you have had a few problems with him at home and it would help him if they could monitor and correct him a bit closer.

 

As for other parents and children the harsh reality is that they will soon forget but of course this doesn't help you. I think as well correction at home from the parent quickly may help rather than it ending up in a fight between the children..

 

I know its difficult and the emotions from all parties, parents, children, playgroup supervisors each seeing from a different perspective and this of course impacts your own wellbeing.

 

Hope there are a few "nuggets" in this posting that will help but you may have a troublesome few months ahead.

[rocketgob]

Thanks Karen - I think maybe I am trying to take everything in myself and it all seems such a mess at the mo - not Charlie - but me trying to get my head around it all. I will get there in the end!!

[Karen A]

Thank you for that and @ the chicken!!!!!!

 

There is no point trying to explain or reason is there? Sorry I sound like a right numpty but I guess I am on a sharp learning curve (just as you have all been). All I did was tell him no biting and put him in his pyjamas and took him to bed. That was a shock enough I think as he normally goes up with his brother and all he did was fell asleep. My interferring SIL says it doesnt matter if he is autistic he still has to learn right from wrong ... I have given up trying to explain to her (obviously she has 2 perfect kids herself )

 

 

Do you mean explain or reason with Charlie ??

The difficulty with explaining or reasoning with a child with AS as young as Charlie [Am I right he is about 2 ???] is that he may not understand the explanation.Spending time explaining may fruatrate you and confuse him.It may be more successful if you take firm action very promptly...like you did by removing him.You might want to give a very brief reminder such as ''no hitting'' or ''no kicking'' but do not worry about attempting to explain the impact of the behaviour at any length.He will not have the emotional maturity to appreciate that he has hurt somone.

If any of the behaviour is the result of anxiety or frustration then Charlie will probably be too wound up to take in any explanation.

The guide for how long to remove a child from the situation is usually a minute for a year of a child's life.So you may want to just take him out of the situation briefly.If he went to sleep then obviously it is fine but if Charlie was awake and getting more upsett then he may well be so worked up after a few minutes that he no longer had any idea of what he did wrong.

 

If you were meaning explain or reason with your sister or onlookers....it can help if they undersand.However with some people to be honest...the answer is the same as for Charlie above. Karen.

[Karen A]

Here is your dilema if you go to the playschool with the problem they may ban him and so perhaps saying something along the lines that you have had a few problems with him at home and it would help him if they could monitor and correct him a bit close

 

Hi I thought I would mention that parent and toddler groups are now covered by recent disability discrimination law the same as all statutary organisations and services.Hence they are not allowed in law to ban a child with a recognised disability including ASD.Karen.

[Karen A]

Thanks Karen - I think maybe I am trying to take everything in myself and it all seems such a mess at the mo - not Charlie - but me trying to get my head around it all. I will get there in the end!!

 

 

<'> <'> It takes time please be kind to you...it is as important as anything you do for Charlie to look after yourself.

It is probably a dreadful cliche but I often think of the airline safety demonstration....please ensure your own oxygen mask is securely fitted before attempting to help young children fit theirs.

Just excuse me...I am 42 today and having an ''older mum momment''

[zaman]

Has anyone like your health visitor pointed you towards the Early Bird scheme run by NAS? From what I understand, it is specially designed to help parents develop strategies for coping. (Hopefully this link will work):

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=142&a=3300

[rocketgob]

Thanks once again all of you for making me feel human again! <'>

 

Has anyone like your health visitor pointed you towards the Early Bird scheme run by NAS? From what I understand, it is specially designed to help parents develop strategies for coping. (Hopefully this link will work):

 

http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=142&a=3300

 

I am supposed to be starting a course after Easter at the place where he was assessed (not sure whether I can say the name on here LOL) but we are in the EXETER area of Devon! I am interested in the Early Bird scheme as well - sounds good. I was recommended the befriending scheme too but there isn't one down here :( but I do have Homestart helping one day a week too.

[rocketgob]

Oh and PS Karen - HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! (I am not all that far behind you )

[Mumble]

for example he bit his 11 month old sister on the arm 2 nights ago. he kicked his brother in the face. All for no reason - on both occassions he wasnt even in the same room as them - he just ran in and did it to them!

Hi, short-term I don't have any advice, but I think what Karen says about looking for patterns will be useful longterm. For what it's worth, I don't think anyone does anything for no reason; they just may not be consciously aware of the reason. The one thing that immediately struck me with this was that my brother (ASD) and I (AS) both used to do this (to each other ) - I can't speak for him, but looking back (isn't hindsight wonderful!! ) a lot of my reasoning was sensory and/or out of frustration. He had a lot of verbal stims which used to annoy the heck out of me and I would hit him to get him to shut up. His reason for doing similar to me may have been similar. Looking for patterns, alongside reading about ASDs may help you to predict and therefore remove things that could be difficult before they become difficult.

[Flora]

ASD and toddlers is the same as ASD and teenagers... It's hard to seperate the usual problems with these two stages of development with the ASD ones, and of course there is blurring because one exacerbates the other. Without knowing your child it would be hard to give specific advice, but I think that all children of any age need firm boundaries of behaviour... even if it means repeating the same thing several times a day. With all children it's easier to have as few rules as possible but general rules which ensure the safety and comfort of the child and other people are important whatever the difficulty.

 

I know it's annoying when other people give advice (as in the case of your sister) but in a way she's right.... because even though your son is autistic he does need to learn right from wrong... HOWEVER how you teach him right from wrong and the methods you use will certainly have to be adapted. I'm not saying that a certain amount of leeway shouldn't be given, but showing and teaching your son right from wrong will help to lay the foundations of appropriate behaviour.

 

Both of my boys have conditions on the spectrum, but they have a very firm view of the rules and morals of good behaviour and right from wrong; I don't think that happened by accident, I've always found a way of showing them.

 

It's not easy is it? But it is absolutely necessary.

 

Flora

[forbsay]

Hi

 

First want to send you some hugs <'> <'> <'> .

 

My son was diagnosed with ASD when he was 2.5 years old. At that time, he was non-verbal and everything he was naughty, I would remove him from the situation for a time out period - (just a short time) and I would say "No,"

 

I still use the naughty step on both my kids ( M is now 7.5 years old and my nt daughter is 4.5 years old)

 

It is hard when you get "looks" from other people. M wears strong glasses and I remember a lady staring at him in Sainsburys - I said under my breathe " em what are you looking at" - i don't know if she heard me or not.

 

Take care and feel free to PM at anytime.

 

Forbsay

[westie]

Hi,

my 2yr 9mth son is currently being assessed, they suspect he has some sort of ASD but more assessment needed. He has issues with violent behaviour at playgroup ( he tends to push children over and then lay on them rather than bite and he is big for his age). An early years intervention teacher who came out to watch him at playgroup recommended the time out method when he is violent towards others, 1 min for each year. I bought a "time out" toy lamb which has a timer in its tummy - it can also be used when timing an activity to let a child know when it is time to stop (I wish they had invented them when my other son was small as he did not cope well when he had to stop or change activities!)

 

I (and my childminder) have used it a few times after he has been violent and normally if you pick him up after such incidents he goes mad but the timer sort of distracts him. Afterwards I told him he was not to hurt others and that he had to sit with me until the bell sounded. He has complied whenever I have used it. Afterwards I tend to move him towards another toy or activity, but I have noticed is that once he has been "triggered" he is provoked much more easily for a few hours afterwards.

 

It is early days but I am giving it a try as it can't make things worse!

 

I agree with other comments that sometimes environment is so stimulating that it is almost impossible to avoid tantrums.....

[westie]

also forgot to say that I know what you mean about people staring at you and making comments. Have been through it with J (still am) and now with C.

One of J's friends is not allowed to play with him at our house any more as J is teaching him bad habits, however J can play at their house where this boys parents can keep an eye on him. What do they think we do then I have lost count of the number of times I have been walking home from school with J screaming and throwing himself about (when he is in Y4, and he looks older than he is). You can feel the staring and disapproving looks. I think I am going to try some of the suggestions/ responses given in this thread!

[krystaltps]

<'> <'> <'>

I remember it only too well. Toddlerhood is the most difficult time (except, perhaps, puberty - but we've still got that to come ). With C, looking back, he didn't want to be near other children, even the twinkles, as they interfered with his play. We stopped mums&tots, as C just hit all the other kids over the head. The other mums hated us.

C has an amazing long-term memory, and he is now able to look back and tell me how he felt back then - other children "freaked him out", they did things he couldn't understand, they spoke in silly baby voices and they touched him and his toys.

Of course, he couldn't tell me that then, so he reacted in the only way he knew would make them stop.

Sometimes he did terrible things to the twins because they got on his nerves just by existing. Other times he loved them so much.

It's hard for a toddler, because they can't just take themselves off to their bedroom to get some peace... and they wouldn't realise that this would do them any good anyway.

 

I always disciplined C in a way that I thought would help - it was never easy and I often wondered if he would ever understand why he wasn't to do certain things. I would say "NO!" then take him to his room, and time him out until he was calmer. If I let him out and he started up again, we'd go straight back to his room. Sometimes he trashed his room, sometimes it felt as if the pattern would go on all day. Sometimes he could tantrum for hours, fall asleep, then wake up and continue the tantrum.

When he was about 3yrs, I introduced reward charts, which he responded well too, but I had to rotate the system regularly to keep him responding to it.

As he got older, I would tell him to go to his room and get some peace and quiet, if he refused I would take him. Always, once he was calm, I would explain what he'd done wrong and why, then suggest alternatives. Now he takes himself off to his room when he feels the need.

 

It's not easy, and it's hard to know what to do for the right. Trial and error, followed by consistency.

But, it does get better <'> .

[Nic m]

Hi rocketgob,

i remember this stage well.My lovely daughter went through a biting stage from about 18months to 4years (really bad at 18months eventually petering out at 4).

The first time she did was in a creche, she had started the week before, and she left teeth marks in the wee boys arm. The creche worker was not a happy bunny. I did not react but i asked what happened she didn't know, so i said that considering the ages of the children here they should not be unsupervised, and left it at that. She did it again the following week i was asked to see the manager.

The manager was very uncomfortable, and asked me how she was going to explain things to the other parent.

I let her squirm, asked how well trained the staff were and said although the biting is not ok it is typical of many toddlers, and i was more than able to explain this to the other parent if she was not able to do her job.

She was very shocked, i think she was hinting before that i may have to remove my daughter if this behaviour continued.

At this point i let her know i was a trained nursery nurse and only changed jobs after i had my daughter and was well aware of what the creche staff should be doing in this situation.

I ended up working in this organisation, but removed my child from their care (the creche staff needed some training)

My daughter ended up in a fantastic nursery and she never once bit another child there (the other occassions where with my nieces or my friends children)On the occassions she did bite i felt this was out of frustration when she was frightened or stressed.

My nieces are both older and would often grab a toy without asking, and although my daughter had a great vocabulary at this age she seemed to freeze and not be able to say anything until much later.

sorry for telling such a long story.

As my child got older i tried to explain that whatever caused her reaction it was almost inevitably ignored by everyone else as what she did always looked worse.She eventually learned to come to me if she was upset even if she could not say what it was and i would do something else with her.

I very rarely let her play anywhere unsupervised as i did not think she could cope.

I can not imagine my daughter raising a finger to anyone now, so please take comfort in that.

Your son is young he is having to negotiate new adventures and you as his mum will help him find a way, that is something you are doing already.

take care

nicola