Anger and Hitting out

[jonathan]

Hi everyone,

I have just joined this forum as it was recommended to me for advice and also to give help to others

my son is 8 years of age with aspergers, he is Brilliant at school of which I am extremely proud of him, is work is average which I am pleased about as mainstream school can be manic for anyone with aspergers but we have a big problem at home, he is a delight if he has his own way but as soon as I tell him he can't have something or go somewhere he wants to go he (I do explain to him why he can't have what he wants) he flies into a rage hitting out at me and verbal abuse as well, at first I wondered whether it was down to the fact he has held it in all day at school and needed to release any anger or frustration at home but when I sit down and try to talk to him he says everything is fine at school, at first I thought it was better that he was like that at home rather than anywhere else but now I'm finding it hard to cope with it is getting to the point I dread him coming home because I know what will happen, I make excuses up for the bruises on me when people ask, I give him fish oil in a morning and wondered if there was anyone who could advise me on what do do or recommended any supplements that may calm him in anyway, I ask why he is angry and he says because he wants his own way, my husband is an aspie himself and can't cope at all with his tantrums

as he said he didn't have any this bad when he was a child so there is no excuse, he grew up in a big family so everyone pulled together where my son is an only child, I desperately want to help him I know he is frustated but I can't give him EVERYTHING he wants I would be up to my eyeballs in debt !

PLEASE ANY SUGGESTIONS !!! I know punishment can't be given as this will make him worse !

[Karen A]

Hi jonathan Welcome to the Forum. <'> <'>

I have Ben who is 9.Ben has DCD with Social Communication Difficulties [some AS traits ].Ben copes well with work in school however he can also get cross and upsett if things don't work out on his terms.I have not found a quick way to deal with the issue unfortunately.However having clear boundaries and being consistent in not giving in to demands does help.I do agree that giving everything that DS wants is not a good option.It is likely to give a message that if anger is demonstrated then it will enable DS to get what he wants.

There are several parents of children with AS on the Forum and so I am sure others will have some suggestions too.Karen.

[jonathan]

Hi jonathan Welcome to the Forum. <'> <'>

I have Ben who is 9.Ben has DCD with Social Communication Difficulties [some AS traits ].Ben copes well with work in school however he can also get cross and upsett if things don't work out on his terms.I have not found a quick way to deal with the issue unfortunately.However having clear boundaries and being consistent in not giving in to demands does help.I do agree that giving everything that DS wants is not a good option.It is likely to give a message that if anger is demonstrated then it will enable DS to get what he wants.

There are several parents of children with AS on the Forum and so I am sure others will have some suggestions too.Karen.

Thanks karen, just wanted to know if I am doing the right thing, I've just arrived home from school with Jonathan, we walked home together I asked how his day went and he okay(no problems there i thought) we arrived at the house and he asked for a macdonalds for tea, I said sorry but no, it isn't a special occasion(we have them for treats) I told him the food wasn't good for him to have regulary

also it cost money ? so sorry but he could have my chicken nuggets I make myself, he then slapped me, told me he hated me then picked up my mobile phone off the table and launched it at the wall, I get sooo frustrated but I kept calm, it is so hard at times, no matter how much you love them, I wish there was some easy answers in times like this(maybe to give in) but what kind of example would that be setting for any child, especially one with special needs, I know macdonalds is small but his wants can range from small things to really expensive things !

thanks for your advice, I wish you well with Ben

[Karen A]

<'> <'> Jonathan.I think you did the right thing.Perhaps one important thing I did not say is that at first things can get worse before they improve.A child may well respond to a change in boundaries by challenging very hard in an attempt to get what they would like.

It is worth standing firm on small things that are important to you.If you give in over small things then that may be seen as an invitation to push for big things too.

I wish there was an easy answer too.Karen.

[Cat]

I wonder if CAMHS in your area run any anger management groups for children with AS? They do where I live and I know some parents who have said that they have made a big difference to their children. The thing is that this young man has got to understand that you are not his personal punch bag either metaphorically or literally. You can not continue to pick up the tab for all of his aggression. Have you thought about offering an alternative to lashing out at you when he is angry? My youngest used to be very hand with his feet and I well remember ending up kneeling in a gutter after he had kicked me in the knee. As kicking appeared to be his favoured method of attack we offered him various other things to kick and my husband made a kick board. It worked although from time to time he will still let rip at a door but never at me now. It is not something that worked overnight by any means but we eventually got the message across. Just because your son says that everything at school is fine does not mean that it is. He may not have the ability at the moment to either understand that there are things in school adding to his aggression or he may not be able to communicate this to you.

 

I understand that it must be difficult for your husband to cope with the tantrums. Does he tell his son that his behaviour is unacceptable? I have two sons with ASD and my eldest is often the perfect person to get it across to the youngest that what he is doing is not acceptable. Having said that I had far worse problems with his behaviour while he was going through pubity but he did turn a corner and he will not allow his younger brother to level his aggression at me in any way shape or form.

 

If you were interested in anger management you could ask for a referal to CAHMS either via the school or your GP.

 

Cat

Edited February 5, 2008 by Cat

[jonathan]

I wonder if CAMHS in your area run any anger management groups for children with AS? They do where I live and I know some parents who have said that they have made a big difference to their children. The thing is that this young man has got to understand that you are not his personal punch bag either metaphorically or literally. You can not continue to pick up the tab for all of his aggression. Have you thought about offering an alternative to lashing out at you when he is angry? My youngest used to be very hand with his feet and I well remember ending up kneeling in a gutter after he had kicked me in the knee. As kicking appeared to be his favoured method of attack we offered him various other things to kick and my husband made a kick board. It worked although from time to time he will still let rip at a door but never at me now. It is not something that worked overnight by any means but we eventually got the message across. Just because your son says that everything at school is fine does not mean that it is. He may not have the ability at the moment to either understand that there are things in school adding to his aggression or he may not be able to communicate this to you.

 

I understand that it must be difficult for your husband to cope with the tantrums. Does he tell his son that his behaviour is unacceptable? I have two sons with ASD and my eldest is often the perfect person to get it across to the youngest that what he is doing is not acceptable. Having said that I had far worse problems with his behaviour while he was going through pubity but he did turn a corner and he will not allow his younger brother to level his aggression at me in any way shape or form.

 

If you were interested in anger management you could ask for a referal to CAHMS either via the school or your GP.

 

Cat

Thanks kaen and cat both for your help and advic it is appreciated, I have just ordered on line a book called starving the anger, if I find it useful I will let you know, just GREAT to have someone to talk to who understands, bye for now

[JsMum]

We have similair problems too, and he is getting bigger and stronger by the day, so I do sympathise with you on this one, it is not easy, what I did with J when we were seeing a psychologist for a few weeks as his aggression at home was severe we did a chart called ABC, it is really good to see what consequences where in place after the act, and it helped me think of ways to get throw to J that things like slapping, kicking are very wrong, he wouldnt like it if a kid came across the road and just kicked him for no reason, so why would he want to do that someone else.

 

The chart goes like this.

 

Action,

 

what was accuring before the behaviour, so in your situation it was you had said no to mcdonalds, that you also explained why, and that yes he could have chicken nuggets but they where mc'mummys,

 

B stands for Behaviour, what did he do,

 

He slapped you, throw your phone and then had a tantrum.

 

C stands for Consequence.

 

What did you did when he slapped you, was he spoken too, did he have to opologise, was anything taken away from him, or did he have time out???given less treats that evening, ????

 

I then handed it after a day, yes I had managed to fill it in one day, the form was for the week. lol. but what it did was spell out very clearly where and when J was controlling the situation and when he was lashing out and what was a classic meltdown and what was a tantrum.

 

I have managed to place punch bags, pads, boxing lessons and extra kicking and running activities, they certainly need a good release system after school so they can get it out.

 

We looked at anger and management booklets and there is one on the way about feelings around anger, that identify just how angry, and helping him identify a little bit more specific.

 

There is some great books now on amazon uk on feelings and some are aimed at Autism/AS.

 

J has done an ADHD management course for children so maybe there may be something locally to yourself, kids anger management can be effective as they help the child understand more about stress and anxiety the fuel of anger.

 

J still gets very angry and we are still trying to help him, we are doing visual displays and having to be very consistant which drains you, J is very manipulative and clever so you need to be aware constantly, and on the ball.

 

I really recommend a daily dairy and also do share your sons behaviour at home with school, just so they are aware just how trying it is for you at home, may be if they could just observe him for a week to see if there could be something going on that your son can not comminicate to you, bullying can go without ditection sometimes, not saying it is bullying but you can not always go by the child saying, bullying is a powerful issue, I would maybe ask the school just to make sure there isnt anything going on.

 

we have had quite a few discussions on this forum regaurding anger and hitting out, and from what I can understand its fine understanding the reasons but it should never be excepted or tolerated, so I am still working towards helping my son.

 

Good luck with some of the suggestions and let us know how things develop.

 

JsMum

[sueeltringham]

I really recommend a daily dairy and also do share your sons behaviour at home with school, just so they are aware just how trying it is for you at home, may be if they could just observe him for a week to see if there could be something going on that your son can not comminicate to you, bullying can go without ditection sometimes, not saying it is bullying but you can not always go by the child saying, bullying is a powerful issue, I would maybe ask the school just to make sure there isnt anything going on.

 

we have had quite a few discussions on this forum regaurding anger and hitting out, and from what I can understand its fine understanding the reasons but it should never be excepted or tolerated, so I am still working towards helping my son.

 

Good luck with some of the suggestions and let us know how things develop.

 

JsMum

 

We've used a diary system. It was extrememly useful to identify triggers and then to put strategies in place. Also useful to show to school and other agencies that everything is not OK, even though he was coping in school. What we've discovered with my ds is that he 'hates' the word NO and really can't cope with a NO answer. We find he CAN cope if we tell him 'no McDonald's tonight, but if you're good, then you can have a McDonalds' on Friday night' This strategy works really well. Definitely try to find something to channel his aggression. Make sure you see your GP and get referred to CAMHS, you should not be having to cope with this sort of aggression alone! Good luck,

 

Sue

[Kinda]

The love of you mums towards your children who are being difficult and I feel taking their frustrations out on the ones they love is awe inspiring and makes me feel very humble.

 

Having to deal with aggression as well as all the other day to day chores I feel you are the unsung heroes who carry on the good work without any recognition.

 

The replies here also provide a wealth of knowledge and experience as to how to react and behave...... very very moving.

[jonathan]

We have similair problems too, and he is getting bigger and stronger by the day, so I do sympathise with you on this one, it is not easy, what I did with J when we were seeing a psychologist for a few weeks as his aggression at home was severe we did a chart called ABC, it is really good to see what consequences where in place after the act, and it helped me think of ways to get throw to J that things like slapping, kicking are very wrong, he wouldnt like it if a kid came across the road and just kicked him for no reason, so why would he want to do that someone else.

 

The chart goes like this.

 

Action,

 

what was accuring before the behaviour, so in your situation it was you had said no to mcdonalds, that you also explained why, and that yes he could have chicken nuggets but they where mc'mummys,

 

B stands for Behaviour, what did he do,

 

He slapped you, throw your phone and then had a tantrum.

 

C stands for Consequence.

 

What did you did when he slapped you, was he spoken too, did he have to opologise, was anything taken away from him, or did he have time out???given less treats that evening, ????

 

I then handed it after a day, yes I had managed to fill it in one day, the form was for the week. lol. but what it did was spell out very clearly where and when J was controlling the situation and when he was lashing out and what was a classic meltdown and what was a tantrum.

 

I have managed to place punch bags, pads, boxing lessons and extra kicking and running activities, they certainly need a good release system after school so they can get it out.

 

We looked at anger and management booklets and there is one on the way about feelings around anger, that identify just how angry, and helping him identify a little bit more specific.

 

There is some great books now on amazon uk on feelings and some are aimed at Autism/AS.

 

J has done an ADHD management course for children so maybe there may be something locally to yourself, kids anger management can be effective as they help the child understand more about stress and anxiety the fuel of anger.

 

J still gets very angry and we are still trying to help him, we are doing visual displays and having to be very consistant which drains you, J is very manipulative and clever so you need to be aware constantly, and on the ball.

 

I really recommend a daily dairy and also do share your sons behaviour at home with school, just so they are aware just how trying it is for you at home, may be if they could just observe him for a week to see if there could be something going on that your son can not comminicate to you, bullying can go without ditection sometimes, not saying it is bullying but you can not always go by the child saying, bullying is a powerful issue, I would maybe ask the school just to make sure there isnt anything going on.

 

we have had quite a few discussions on this forum regaurding anger and hitting out, and from what I can understand its fine understanding the reasons but it should never be excepted or tolerated, so I am still working towards helping my son.

 

Good luck with some of the suggestions and let us know how things develop.

 

JsMum

What a GREAT idea, I will definately be trying the ABC method, up to now I wait until he has cooled off(time out) then I sit and explain, how would he feel if I hit him for no apparent reason, he then apologies and says he won't do it again (but obviously he does as he can't seem to control it)

the ideas you all have given me about releasing his anger in another direction seems great as well

I will try and put all this advice into practice and let you know how I go on

Many thanks to all of you who took the time to reply

[morgan and alexandra]

Hi

 

I thought I was reading about myself then. My husband is the same as yours and can't deal with DD 8 who sounds just like your son.

 

Keep your chin up, I know it's hard but I have found this forum has really helped me.

 

Helen

[westie]

My son used to be violent (physically) at home and school, not so now at home but is still at school and just got referral to CAMHS for anger management therapy, starting later in month. He is still verbally aggressive at home on occasions. At minute is around bedtime as he does not want to go, however I persist in making him go at the agreed time no matter how he goes off.

 

He is expert at delaying or disracting techniques having PDA but I have to try and ignore it and press on. This means I have to be near him all time to make sure he is brushing his teeth/ getting pyjamas on but he gets to bed almost on time!

 

It helps me to keep him calm by using indirect instructions: Would you help me with....., I bet you can't.......

and with homework I ask him to choose a time to do it, and then when it gets to that time if he starts protesting I say that is the time you have chosen and if you do not do it then you cannot play on computer/ your friend. Then again I have to stay with him to ensure that it is done (and not ripped up) but he is doing it which is positive step.

 

My son also does not like hearing "No", and I also use Sue's approach (i.e. not tonight but we can go on friday if you are good.... )

 

There are some good suggestions to try on this thread so hope something works.

 

A couple of times at school have been worrying with him grabbing throats and (whilst waiting for CAMHS appointment) I bought an anger management book and am working through worksheets with my son to help him to identify what makes him angry, how he feels when he is getting angry, situations which may make him angry and how he could think about them in a different way to lessen anger, and last one we did was looking at a recent incident where he was angry, what happened, rating yourself and then looking at ways you can make your rating one higher in next situation. The book focuses on changing the way you deal with anger. Its called "Anger Management, a practical guide"

He is worried himself and is trying to work with me even though he hates talking about emotions and things he has done in temper.

 

Take care, hope you find something helps.