Complete change of career!!

[warrenpenalver]

Warren has finally had his Medical Board and will be leaving the Navy in june!!!

 

The navy cant keep me in as i would need long term supervision and the kind of jobs from this point on in my career are likely to make me more unwell due to varied nature, uncertainty and inconsitant support so they have decided I am permenantly unfit for naval service.

 

I knew this was a possibility before the medical board so one put a few ideas in place just in case, so i have sorted housing, and a plan to get a job.

 

The big problem lies in beyond the basics. I currently have a very comphrenhensive set of rules and routines in my head based on my basic military training and the navy regulations. In basic they teach us everything from what to wear, to how and when etc etc, so called appropriate behaviours in certain social situations (military functions etc) as well as military routines.

 

Now becoming a civilian i am pannicking badly. How do i know what rules transfer easily to civilian world and what do not?? The obvious things like not wearing uniform, not marching, not saluting etc are obvious, but what about rules in workplace, social rules etc etc. eg what do you call people in the workplace?? in the navy its defined, rank and surname, and if senior to you "sir", but even that i used to get wrong calling the captain sir 15 times in one brief once when apparently the start and finish was all that was needed.

 

And how do people do day to day living?? Ive never lived independantly before always being either at family home as a child or living on base in supported accomodation. The whole range of things i need to put in my house is baffling me. My initial thoughts were that i had everything i needed already with campbed etc etc but people dont do that in real houses so my other plan is to make it the same as my accomodation on base so then i know where to put things and can use my existing routines. Is there any easy guide on how to live?? like is it ok to knock on neighbours doors and say hello etc? how should i use the lounge?? normally im used to accomodation where my bedroom on base has a desk and comfy chair so its combined lounge, bedroom, workshop and im not sure how to mimic that in a house. would it be wrong to be painting car parts on lounge table or should i go and hide in the garage and just accept that in a house you do seperate things in seperate places?????

 

I am also pannicking over safety and security. Am i not vulnerable in an open house to being attacked unless i have big security system?? Obviously on base i have a big fence and armed guards to keep out the nastys. I can often hear the nasty drunk people screaming and shouting on the otherside of the fence and it makes me very anxious despite being safe so i will be even more worried they would kick down front door.

 

IS it bad to buy nice tv or computer or household goods?? The nearest ive been to independant living was a year in student halls and i got burgled twice so im not sure if its worth having nice stuff if people will just steal it anyway???

 

There is so much that people seem to take for granted living independantly that baffles me, even simple stuff like electricity, gas, water, i know it comes in pipes/wires and i can tell you how i came from powerstation to house etc and i know you get bills from the meter, but how to you organise getting it turned on and off. who has all these contacts or does this information get handed down to you??????

 

Im used to all bills coming from my pay with the odd direct debit for car insurance etc. is that how most people run thier home finance?? do all the bills come on 1st day of month to coincide with pay day????

 

So many questions!!!

 

Im being transferred to an "equivelent" level in the NHS which depending on the local services where im living, ive been told i will be put with a local CMHT or a GP practice based counselling/psycotherapy service. Will the NHS take me seriously and listen to me and understand me??, as the navy people tend to make thier own assumptions and then dismiss any thing i say as trivial or "it will all go away when your better"!!

 

 

Im so worried about things that ive started to write an essay about how the thinking in my head works so i can give it to my new GP so they can understand me.

 

 

Im also very worried about jobs. Ive been told to lie in job interviews and applications when asked why i had a medical discharge. Apparently i should say i suffered depression in the past but "im over it now". But thats not the truth about the full reasons ive been discharged or the truth about my mental illness and how it affects me. They say people would reject my applications if they knew a lot of things. I thought there was laws to prevent ill people being discriminated against just like the disability discriminiation act. They then said that companies would not write on paper that i was rejected for being ill but would make up some other excuse to go on paper. But isnt that decietful and illegal??? Would they really lie and cover up why they dont want to employ people just to avoid getting in trouble?? Surely the workplace in this day and age is more tolerant of illness when so many people seem to be off work on stress illneses and other mental health issues.

 

Im all so very confused and to make matters worse the social worker for navy medical discharges has left her job and theres not replacement, and i supposed to be using the therapy to get better from my illness not talk about domestic problems.

 

I need a book of rules for the real world!!!!!

 

:robbie: :robbie: :robbie: :robbie:

[Tally]

Well, I'm glad you know what's going to happen now. It's sad that you have to leave the Navy, but I know you expected it too.

 

Many workplaces have uniforms or dress codes, so what to wear may not be that difficult. You might need to go out and buy some new clothes, but it's impossible to say what kind until you know where you will be working.

 

It's not normal to call people Sir in the workplace. Most people just call each other by their Christian names. Normally you would be introduced to someone, and you should call them the name you are told.

 

Day to day living is something I struggle with too, and to an extent it's OK to live as you please. It depends also on how you are going to live. Are you sharing with someone or will it be all your own place?

 

Normally, the lounge is for relaxing. If you paint car parts, you might get paint on things in the lounge. If you are sharing, you absolutely must respect your housemate's possessions and make sure you don't get paint on them. If you are renting it's important not to damage your landlord's possessions such as the carpet and furniture. If it is your own home and you are not concerned about getting paint on things, it would be OK to paint car parts in the lounge. But this is something that most people would do outside. It's not to hide what you are doing, it's just to minimise the risk of damage.

 

I keep my desk and computer in a spare bedroom, but if you don't have a spare bedroom, you could keep it in your bedroom or lounge, wherever it fits best. It's not important.

 

I don't really know about talking to neighbours. I would never have the confidence to knock on someone's door and say, "hello, I have just moved in nextdoor." I don't think people normally do that though. I always say hello if I see my neighbours outside though. One side my neighbours are quite friendly, but I haven't even seen the others.

 

Security depends on where you live. I always keep the front door locked, even when I am home, but I don't have any kind of alarm. You could look at the other houses and see whether they have security gates or burglar alarms. Drunk people often make a lot of noise, but they are unlikely to kick down your front door. If you see them doing something illegal, you should never challenge them, because that is when they may turn violent. The best thing to do is stay inside, don't let them know you've seen them, don't turn on the lights, call the police.

 

It should be OK to buy nice things. As long as you take reasonable precautions like locking doors and shutting windows, your possessions will normally be safe. You can never be 100% sure, which is why many people take out household insurance. It would be sensible not to leave valuable items really obviously displayed. For example, I never leave my wallet out on the window sill, because it might encourage thieves. It's not so easy to hide a telly!

 

When you move in, you need to contact the gas, electricity and water board in order to get connected. You should give them a meter reading, so that you are not paying the previous resident's bill. You don't have any choice about the water board, there is only one for each area. Their phone number should be in the phone book, or you could look it up on the internet. There are several gas and electricity suppliers, so you can choose whichever you like. I get gas and electricity from the same supplier, and get only one bill for both. That makes things simpler. They normally encourage you to pay by monthly direct debit, but I prefer to pay by quarterly bill. You may get a bill from a different supplier when you first move in. It takes 45 days to change gas and electricity supplier, and the bill will come from the old supplier which the previous resident chose. Unfortunately, you have to pay this as well. You also need to choose a phone and internet supplier in a similar way. You also need to contact the council to register for council tax - their number should also be in the phone book.

 

Most of my bills come out by direct debit every month. Most of them come out on the 1st, but there are a few which come out on other days. I used to be paid weekly, but now I am paid 4-weekly. This means my pay day is a different day each month. I have to budget carefully to make sure there is money left by the 1st of the month for all the bills.

 

The NHS should take you seriously, but they may also be very uneducated about Asperger's. Many adults have a lot of difficulty seeking assessment for AS on the NHS, and choose to go private in the end. A whole essay for your doctor is probably not helpful, as they won't have time to read it. A brief list of bullet points would be good though, keep it to under one side of A4 and they should find time to read it. Register with a GP as soon as you can, and go and see them to make them aware of your history.

 

Applying for a job can be hard. It is illegal to discriminate against people because of illness, but many employers find ways around it. If there are two applicants they can say the other person seemed better suited for the job. It is illegal, but often impossible to prove. Perhaps you could say that you developed depression and couldn't cope with the military lifestyle. I think it would be unwise to say you are over it now, since you may need to take time off work for appointments. But if you can show that you could cope with work even though you couldn't cope with the Navy, that would help you get a job.

[bid]

Hi again Warren

 

Clothes are quite easy: when you're not at work just wear whatever you wore when you were out of uniform in the Navy. Job interviews: suit or jacket and tie. Job: be guided by what others wear, and you can ask for guidance when you are offered the job. At work, most people use first names, although the main boss might still be Mr or Mrs X. As for how to behave: to begin with, just be polite and as friendly as you can until you can see how the others get on with each other (some places will be more formal, others more jokey, etc).

 

Employment: have you thought about investigating something linked with your passion for cars? Some kind of own business around your expert knowledge? Have you got some financial lee-way so that you don't have to rush into anything?

 

House: this is great, because if you live on your own you can have things just how you like! Tally: not sure about paying the previous occupants gas/elec bill...I've never had this?? Just worry about the basics for now (bed, cooker, fridge, TV, sofa, etc) and once you get settled you will discover what else you might like/need. If you are a typical man, this will mean an uber home entertainment system, and one tea towel for everything else!!

 

I know this must be really overwhelming, but it is your chance to make the rest of your life to suit you, so it could be quite exciting too <'>

 

Bid

Edited March 16, 2008 by bid

[Mumble]

I need a book of rules for the real world!!!!!

No idea, but when you find the above book, can you please pass it this way I am absolutely and totally terrified about living on my own without support - I don't think I'll manage it that well at all - there are so many things I don't understand and so many things I don't know how to get help with. I don't particularly like living in halls, but at least I know more of what happens and when and I don't have to worry about things like those you list. But I only have just over a year to go here, then I have to face the 'real world'. And yes, I'm terrified, so so scared. I'm hoping it goes OK for you, and I can use you as inspiration.

[Tally]

No, you don't pay the previous occupant's gas/electricity bill. You pay their chosen supplier for the gas/electricity you use after you move in. It takes 45 days to change supplier, so for 45 days, you are being supplied by the previous company. This is why it's important to take a reading. If you know who their supplier was, you can just stick with them, but I don't know who you'd find out. It's just confusing because you can get sent a bill and wonder why a supplier you never contacted is asking you for money. Does that make more sense?

[pearl]

Just a thought Warren, this sounds incredibly overwhelming. Does the navy have any duty of care to you to help you settle back in civilian life? It sounds like you might need some support while you are getting used to everything. The other route would be to see if you could acquire a social worker who could talk you through all these things & help keep you on track, but again I have no idea how easy/difficult this would be.

 

There is usually someone on here though who can answer individual questions.

 

Take things one step at a time.

[Kinda]

Hi Warren

 

There is a lot to cover in your post and so it might be wise to split the questions up into smaller units so you get specific advice as to each of the issues you raise.

 

As for employment I wouldn't offer them that you had depression unless specifically asked either in an interview or on a job application and of course you are not meant to lie. I think you need to have an explanation in your mind so when you are asked you can briefly tell them what happend and then a positive aspect of illness like how you are now a better person for it in that you are more aware of how the signs and what pressures may have caused it and that you would not let yourself be put in that position again.

 

Not sure what caused the depression but in my own case I don't offer the information unless specifically asked and if they do I say that I'm a better person because I can deal with the pressures that may cause it and tale preventive action before it makes me ill. I then go on to say I'm a lot more aware of how I react to situations and take measures to stop any escalation of these affecting my health.

 

Perhaps you could split the issues you have into manageable chunks such as work, housing, social etc and then write the issues you have under each of these headings and then seek advice keeping a record of the answers and alternatives.

 

Just some initial thoughts.

[bid]

No, you don't pay the previous occupant's gas/electricity bill. You pay their chosen supplier for the gas/electricity you use after you move in. It takes 45 days to change supplier, so for 45 days, you are being supplied by the previous company. This is why it's important to take a reading. If you know who their supplier was, you can just stick with them, but I don't know who you'd find out. It's just confusing because you can get sent a bill and wonder why a supplier you never contacted is asking you for money. Does that make more sense?

 

Sorry Tally...see what you mean, now!

 

Bid

[warrenpenalver]

Are you sharing with someone or will it be all your own place?

 

I have my own place but yet to move in. Was surprisingly easy to buy a house but i think the estate agent and mortgage advisor feel pretty drained as i was fiarly intensive on the questions. Its agonising more slow than i expected. stupid solicitors. How difficult can it be to sort paper work really??????

 

I am thinking of having a lodger to help me with bills so im not pressurised to work so much. the mortgage is covered by navy pension luckily. a lodger would have to be someone relatively quiet!

 

Normally, the lounge is for relaxing. If you paint car parts, you might get paint on things in the lounge. If it is your own home and you are not concerned about getting paint on things, it would be OK to paint car parts in the lounge. But this is something that most people would do outside. It's not to hide what you are doing, it's just to minimise the risk of damage.

ah ok but im one of these people who does several things at once, i will watch tv in background while replying to emails and fiddling with car parts or building a lego model. I tidy up after myself.

 

I learnt that the hard way when i was spray painting in my room and had to buy new carpet not to mention the paint dust layed everywhere and i was ill for days!!!

 

I don't really know about talking to neighbours. I would never have the confidence to knock on someone's door and say, "hello, I have just moved in nextdoor." I don't think people normally do that though. I always say hello if I see my neighbours outside though. One side my neighbours are quite friendly, but I haven't even seen the others.

I dont have the confidence unless i pretend like i do at work. Its just other people mention knowing thier nieghbours so i was not sure whats the right thing to do. I think that even if i dont want to socially interact, maybe its for the best if i try???

 

The NHS should take you seriously, but they may also be very uneducated about Asperger's. Many adults have a lot of difficulty seeking assessment for AS on the NHS, and choose to go private in the end. A whole essay for your doctor is probably not helpful, as they won't have time to read it. A brief list of bullet points would be good though, keep it to under one side of A4 and they should find time to read it. Register with a GP as soon as you can, and go and see them to make them aware of your history.

Ah ok i shall write the essay so i get my thoughts down then i shall shorten it down to a list.

 

Applying for a job can be hard. It is illegal to discriminate against people because of illness, but many employers find ways around it. If there are two applicants they can say the other person seemed better suited for the job. It is illegal, but often impossible to prove. Perhaps you could say that you developed depression and couldn't cope with the military lifestyle. I think it would be unwise to say you are over it now, since you may need to take time off work for appointments. But if you can show that you could cope with work even though you couldn't cope with the Navy, that would help you get a job.

Im not sure how i can prove im able to cope with work without, erm, working?? I have been told i may have to get a lower level job to prove myself first. At least as medical discharge i can use jobcentre plus disibility service.

 

Employment: have you thought about investigating something linked with your passion for cars? Some kind of own business around your expert knowledge? Have you got some financial lee-way so that you don't have to rush into anything?

I dont want to work with cars unless its being a rally driver Cars for me are about sensations and satisfying the obsessive thoughts in my head. I do get a pension which covers the mortgage and a lump sum which might help for a bit but id still need to earn 3-500 pounds a month to break even after council tax etc.

 

House: this is great, because if you live on your own you can have things just how you like! Tally: not sure about paying the previous occupants gas/elec bill...I've never had this?? Just worry about the basics for now (bed, cooker, fridge, TV, sofa, etc) and once you get settled you will discover what else you might like/need. If you are a typical man, this will mean an uber home entertainment system, and one tea towel for everything else!!

 

I know this must be really overwhelming, but it is your chance to make the rest of your life to suit you, so it could be quite exciting too <'>

 

Bid

Its my house so any lodger will have to comply with my rules i guess. Im not bothered by having latest and best gadgets, as long as i have what i need like a tv, internet, dvd player etc. i bought the tv already second hand for �30 which got me a 2 year old 32" thingy. Im not bothered that its a CRT.

 

No idea, but when you find the above book, can you please pass it this way I am absolutely and totally terrified about living on my own without support - I don't think I'll manage it that well at all - there are so many things I don't understand and so many things I don't know how to get help with. I don't particularly like living in halls, but at least I know more of what happens and when and I don't have to worry about things like those you list. But I only have just over a year to go here, then I have to face the 'real world'. And yes, I'm terrified, so so scared. I'm hoping it goes OK for you, and I can use you as inspiration.

Sounds like your in a similar accomodation situation to me then. Hey i will write a guide if it goes ok for me!!

 

Just a thought Warren, this sounds incredibly overwhelming. Does the navy have any duty of care to you to help you settle back in civilian life? It sounds like you might need some support while you are getting used to everything. The other route would be to see if you could acquire a social worker who could talk you through all these things & help keep you on track, but again I have no idea how easy/difficult this would be.

 

There is usually someone on here though who can answer individual questions.

 

Take things one step at a time.

They have a duty of care to provide medical care until i leave and they financially compensate me with a pension. They are writing to my gp. The discharge social worker is leaving the job without replacement so maybe it is bad timing for me.

 

they give us a careers advice service but not much on domestic living. I guess statistically most people leaving navy are much older and have partners and homes etc.

 

:robbie: :robbie: :robbie: :robbie: :robbie: :robbie:

[warrenpenalver]

As for employment I wouldn't offer them that you had depression unless specifically asked either in an interview or on a job application and of course you are not meant to lie. I think you need to have an explanation in your mind so when you are asked you can briefly tell them what happend and then a positive aspect of illness like how you are now a better person for it in that you are more aware of how the signs and what pressures may have caused it and that you would not let yourself be put in that position again.

ah ok so say how i know my limits better and now have more stress coping skills???

Not sure what caused the depression but in my own case I don't offer the information unless specifically asked and if they do I say that I'm a better person because I can deal with the pressures that may cause it and tale preventive action before it makes me ill. I then go on to say I'm a lot more aware of how I react to situations and take measures to stop any escalation of these affecting my health.

Yeah i wouldnt want to elaborate to an employer other than maybe mention work related stress due to the specific job i was doing.

[Kinda]

Hi warrenpenalver

 

 

Generally stress is brought about by how we interact with the outside world, the issues can build up and so much so to a point we feel we can't cope.

 

I think the problem is that a lot of us suffer from stress due to work etc but the problem is when its over a sustained period then its detrimental to our health. The issue is to recognise this and prevent it by taking ourselves out of the situation. We tend to think we can cope but it can be debilitating over a long period and of course we all don't like giving in to work demands.

 

Its recognition of being in this position which is the key and then developing strategies to cope, knowing its OK to say no etc. While I maynot refuse to do the work it may have to wait and if you have too much piled on you then its time to say no.

 

The problem tends to be when we are criticised or believe we maybe and we are already busy and we take on more, afraid to say no or tell someone how we feel. Depression is the illness of the strong not the weak, weak people tend to not care and a useful book is by Cantopher.

[Tally]

Im not sure how i can prove im able to cope with work without, erm, working?? I have been told i may have to get a lower level job to prove myself first. At least as medical discharge i can use jobcentre plus disibility service.

Well, it's difficult to actually prove it. But once you tell them you were discharged from the Navy on medical grounds, their concern would be that you are not well enough to work for them either. If you can explain what it was about the Navy that you couldn't cope with, they may be reassured that you would be well enough to work for them, even though you weren't well enough to work for the Navy.

 

I think they may be right about taking a lower level job at first. This is often the case when you change career. If you can prove yourself in one job, you may get promoted or be able to find a better job elsewhere.

 

id still need to earn 3-500 pounds a month to break even after council tax etc.

You should take home over �700 if you worked full time for the minimum wage, so I think you can achieve this!

[warrenpenalver]

Its recognition of being in this position which is the key and then developing strategies to cope, knowing its OK to say no etc. While I maynot refuse to do the work it may have to wait and if you have too much piled on you then its time to say no.

 

The problem tends to be when we are criticised or believe we maybe and we are already busy and we take on more, afraid to say no or tell someone how we feel. Depression is the illness of the strong not the weak, weak people tend to not care and a useful book is by Cantopher.

The problem i have is not being afraid to say no, but not knowing when i am allowed to say no. Nobody seems to explain when its acceptable to say no or if im just being stupid and should get on with it. Often i just dont know. If there were some clear rules it would be easier.

 

Well, it's difficult to actually prove it. But once you tell them you were discharged from the Navy on medical grounds, their concern would be that you are not well enough to work for them either. If you can explain what it was about the Navy that you couldn't cope with, they may be reassured that you would be well enough to work for them, even though you weren't well enough to work for the Navy.

I could explain that the separation and uncertainty of constantly changing programs and not knowing anything beyond the next few hours and not being able to plan was what messed me up, but i dont want to seem too inflexible!! I can tolerate changes but i need to know in advance and know whats going on.

 

I think they may be right about taking a lower level job at first. This is often the case when you change career. If you can prove yourself in one job, you may get promoted or be able to find a better job elsewhere.

 

You should take home over �700 if you worked full time for the minimum wage, so I think you can achieve this!

 

Im just wondering if i need to drop all the way to the bottom of the ladder because technically my current job would be considered middle management although being frank there is very little management as the decision processes are relatively fixed and predetermined so more just a decision maker.

 

I dont mind if i have no choice to end up shelf stacking etc which would actually be ok but im not sure if i should be trying to "use my full potential" as the careers people keep saying to me. Im just worried about ending up at the bottom of the pile with no way of getting back into work because of either issues surrounding my illness or being told im overqualified for lower level jobs. Id rather be overqualified and employed than unemployed!!!

 

ah ok i wasnt clear on the current wages!! I just based things on my experiences as a teenager working in safeways delicatessan counter and what i earned then. I was on �2.84 an hour back then.

[Karen A]

Hi Warren Pleased to see you around here again.It may be worth getting settled in your new place before taking in a lodger.It can be a difficult job finding somone to get along with and quite stressful.Karen.

[bid]

Thinking about jobs...how do you feel about the possible/probable stresses related to any 'middle management' job? Had you thought of taking things easy at first, and maybe finding a job that isn't as stressful?

 

On paper I am waaayyyyyy over-qualified for the job I do (I have 2 degrees), BUT I know that I simply can't function or cope in the sort of job that matches my academic qualifications because of my AS. For years I really beat myself up over this.

 

There are stresses in the job I do working with young people with severe epliepsy and related additional needs, and many people have said they couldn't cope with the emotional impact, but it is all stuff that I can deal with, and very different from the kind of 'high-powered' pressure I would face if I were a lecturer or a solicitor, etc, etc.

 

I am doing a job I love, I've been promoted, I am an NVQ assessor...all things a million miles away from my original career as a university archaeologist. But I am much, much happier and far less stressed than if I had stayed in that world. I don't earn anywhere near as much money, but I wouldn't swap for anything.

 

If you can, take this time to think 'outside' the box. The jobs the naval careers people may be encouraging you towards may not suit you...we can all 'fulfil our potential' in ways that are not immediately obvious.

 

Good luck <'>

 

Bid

Edited March 17, 2008 by bid

[Kinda]

Hi warrenpenalver

 

Your question of when to say no is your own personal boundary that you should develop, in other words what you are prepared to put up with and what you are not.

 

For me I work this out by balancing a number of things such as is the pressure affecting my health, is the company making unreasonable demands on me, what do others have to put up with, am I being treated differently from the others, is this my job, is it a temporary situation, do I need the money, what would happen if I walked out, what is the job market like, are there other jobs about, is this company better or no different from others etc.

 

I hadn't really realised until I wrote the above down how much analysis goes into it, pretty complicated heh. I think as you get older you get more confident in your ability and saying no goes with this.

 

Regardless of others you should really set your own boundaries of acceptability out since its you at the end of the day that has to be comfortable with undertaking the work.

 

Having suffered bullying at work myself for 3 years and not realising it was bullying but rather I was made to feel as if I was incompetant and then moving to another company and trying so hard I did 3 jobs before nearly having a breakdown I now understand its up to me to say what I find acceptable and what is not.

 

Obtaining a higher degree also gave me the confidence that I was of at least average ability and therefore I wasn't being unreasonable but the necessity for a qualification was only important to me because I was working with highly qualified engineers etc.

 

Your could substitute your skills and qualifications from the Navy and these should help decide on what is reasonable and what isn't and what you find acceptable or not.

Edited March 18, 2008 by Kinda

[warrenpenalver]

thing is i hate doing management but im ok at it. I have self worth issues so i always feel im not good enough to be giving orders even if i can do it well enough!! i feel like im out of my depth and lack proactive peopleskills to run things smoothly. yet i can lead fine as its set orders that the suboddinates will follow because they have to, and because i have the professinal knowledge to gain some respect, and inmilitary pwople who are awkward get trooped and lockedd up in miitary prison so usually tell them twice and they do it even if they grumble.

 

managing robots with limited abilityto backchat would be ideaal!