ADHD or ASD ? Is it too soon to tell?

[peaches]

I joined this forum because we are in the process of having my daughter assessed for Asperger's. Of course when yu read these forums, and also the many recommended books on the subject, you look at other members of the family who are unusual or challenging and see some of their symptoms fit.

 

I am bringing up both my grandchildren. My grandson is 5. He never really grew out of temper tantrums, but if his routines are adhered to, then they are less of a problem. He is always on the go, hardly ever still, but he can concentrate on certain things: playing with a transformer or sonic the hedgehog on his game console. He learned to read naturally at age 4, just through being read to. He is now a fluent reader well beyond his peers, school say he is gifted in this respect. He is clumsy, and has difficulty with pencil control and writing, he has no patience for this sort of activity. He is also rather impulsive and wont heed warnings regarding his safety.

 

He is sociable, but seems to get into trouble in the playground and upset other kids. With his little sister, he can be over affectionate if you know what I mean. Instead of a kiss and a hug, a huge rugby tackle with slobbery kisses is given ignoring all her protests. I think he does this at school too, as the classroom assistant has to remind him "does he look like he is enjoying it?" when he is hugging others a bit too enthusiastically. It doesnt matter to him what the other person is experiencing, he always says "but I only wanted to hug them".

 

At school, during his first term he was referred to the special needs inclusion service and seen in school. I was given a written report in which they thought he could engage in age appropriate tasks etc but they noted that he had delayed emotional regulation and some rigid behaviour. They thought he could cope in the class though.

 

I have asked them to look at him again as I think his behaviour is out of step with that of his peers though.

 

1. What do you think? Does he have special needs, ADHD, Aspergers or whatever?

 

2. If school are dragging their heels should I take him to the doctor and get a referral through some sort of psychiatric service?

[aro]

Well the symptoms would be consistent with ASD (but with many other things too) so I would be tempted to go to the GP and ask for a referral to a paediatrician.

 

Good luck,

 

A x

[pookie170]

Gosh, Peaches, you've got a lot on your plate....and how lucky your family is to have you.

 

I would definetly go to your GP and ask for a referral to CAMHS, it does sound as if your grandson might have additional needs but CAMHS are the ones who can assess this. It might be an idea to write down your concerns to take with you, as I find I tend to babble on and on, and any points I really want to make threaten to be drowned in gobbledegook! (You cant tell, can you? )

What are the school doing to help him at the moment? For instance, does he get one of those triangular thingys that fit on a pencil to aid grip? Or a chunky triangular pencil? These things can really help, unless the child eats them as mine did! And there are gertain activities that an LSA could maybe spend time doing with him? Certainly if the school saw fit to refer him, then they realise he needs extra help at the very least. Maybe you could talk to the school and see what provision they coud make to assisst him?

 

Dont know if thats of any help, but I wish you well!

Esther x

[JsMum]

The mad thing about ADHD is that a lot of people sustpect that when a child with hyperactivity, impulsive behaviours then can go and concentrate for hours on a computer game they think nar he cant have ADHD, his difficulties are writing, focusing on in a classroom situation, group situations, so for me I would say your GS does have many traits of ADHD.

 

The biggest reason a child with ADHD reacts the way he does is because parts of the brain are not stimulated, therefor a lot of children self medicate to find the same effects to startle the brain to transmit the neurotransmitters to stimulate, for J it was caffine, massive amounts, cola, chocolate, until we substituted it with other natural ways, when your son is on the computer game, it will be sending massive amounts of neurotransmittors and stimulating the parts of the brain that are usually dormant, so he is self regulating himself with computer games, as they are giving his brain:

 

Instant reactions, instant rewards, instant recognition, instant stimulation, the minuet he stops the game, then the transmition is cut, or it looks for a substitute, sugars, caffine, and dangerous activities that give the brain the same pleasure signals.

 

J does play video games but he gets restless, aggitated, and he flits from game to game and its very frustrating for his friends as they may of been quite happy playing with a game, but he swaps and changes so much, he cant keep his attention to much of his activities, one mins he is on his computer game, the next he is on his guitar, then the piano, then the trampoline, he is a whizz but it frustrates him soo much, at times he doesnt know what to do with himself, this is the biggest reason we put him on concera xl. to give his a brain a chance to focus and to stay on one thing.

 

J isnt very social, though many like J, its just not many can play with him because he is soo rough he actually hurts them, kids have said they would like to play with J but they cant because he hurts them they understand he is only playing but J gets over excited, he doesnt understand facial expressions and social context so its really difficult to gage what is exceptable in Js eyes.

 

The teacher is asking a open question that is too literal too, how is your grandchild expected to know if the child is enjoying been cuddled, in his head he is thinking cuddling is nice, she should like it, he doesnt understand social understanding children yet and in both ASD/ADHD social skills are massively delayed and impaired, at Five J was more like a one year old in his social understanding and squezzing and squachy cuddles are fine in his eyes, obvous to us it isnt and we need to give them more support to learn the social skills.

 

I would write down all your concerns in a letter and hand it in to your grandsons GP, then at least your concerns are in his medical notes, then the GP can referr your GS on to a childrens developmental centre, and really he needs to be seen by both CAHMS and the social and communication Team, I would also put in a request for an assessment of need at school too, if it is he is struggling with social interaction then he will need support with this and the LEAs have a team of experts that can recommend apropriate support, if he is been assessed by the CAHMS/SCT then he would then be placed on the SA PLUS for special needs under social skills and it would also give you a clearer picture what his abilities are and where there is impairments, J is very very bright in certain areas of his development but severely below in other areas.

 

I wish you the best, getting help when they are young is crucial, it nips things in the butt and it will prevent other behavioural issues becoming more of a concern if things are left, the only person then who suffers is the children in your sons school and your GS. (obvously his family too, that can never ever be underestimated)

 

Attending ADHD parent groups are really good too for further information, with the possibility of your daughter having AS it does increase the chances of other family members having it too, but from what you describe the behaviours of ADHD with Aspergers Syndrome, and I wonder if there could still be something else in there though he is fluent in reading his writing is something that needs further assessments too and I am thinking dyspraxia.

 

Any further advice, or questions just PM.

 

JsMum

[peaches]

Thank you both.

 

I will be making an appointment with our GP shortly and will write down all my concerns. I want to see the GP that saw my daughter because she is really on the ball so it might be a wait before I get an appt with her. Ive got to go into hospital myself for a minor op on Monday so when that is all over I will attend to GS and GP visit.

[Karen A]

Hi Peaches.I am not an expert at all but having read your description of your grandson I was also wondering whether you have read anything about Developmental Coordination Disorder [Dyspraxia].Ben has DCD and has many of the difficulties you mention.I am certainly not able to tell you whether ADHD,ASD or DCD are the reason for the things that are worrying you.However if you decide to talk to the GP then DCD may be worth considering. Karen.

[peaches]

Hi Peaches.I am not an expert at all but having read your description of your grandson I was also wondering whether you have read anything about Developmental Coordination Disorder [Dyspraxia].Ben has DCD and has many of the difficulties you mention.I am certainly not able to tell you whether ADHD,ASD or DCD are the reason for the things that are worrying you.However if you decide to talk to the GP then DCD may be worth considering. Karen.

 

Thanks Karen, will look into that one too! Its funny you should say that but Im sure I heard his father's mother say one of her kids was diagnosed with dyspraxia and they wondered if GS's dad had it too.

[Karen A]

Thanks Karen, will look into that one too! Its funny you should say that but Im sure I heard his father's mother say one of her kids was diagnosed with dyspraxia and they wondered if GS's dad had it too.

 

Hi again.I think that Dyspraxia may well have a genetic component.I have never been Dx but am very like Ben....and I know what my family think My elder brother may well have been Dx if he was around now too.Karen.

[peaches]

Our GP thinks he has many of the characteristics of Asperger's (I didnt mention Asperger's or anything when I went in, just told her what our concerns about his behaviour were). She has referred him to CAMHS Consultant Psychiatrist for assessment.

 

Has anyone had any experience of Dr Chalhoub At Flockton House, Sheffield?

 

 

Hi All.With my Moderator hat on....if anyone has any information about the Dr mentioned please pm rather than posting information re a specific professional on the open Forum.Thanks Karen.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Karen A
Moderator note

[Karen A]

Sounds like you made some progress with the GP.Karen.

[peaches]

I have found out that the Doc we are going to see is the Consultant at CAMHs. What can we expect from a first appointment at CAMHS?

[Faithnomore]

He sounds exactly like DS1. He was DX with ADHD aged 7 but not with ASD until he was 11. I kept telling CAHMS they were missing something but they insisted it was just part of his ADHD. I ended up writing all the 'odd' behaviours down and reading it out to the consulant, finally the light went on and 4 weeks later he got his ASD dx.