Calling all Aspie drivers!

[pearl]

JP passed his test about 10 months ago & is doing pretty well. When we go out together he usually drives in order to gain experience. We have exactly the opposite problem of most parents of teenage boy drivers, far from speeding, taking risks etc he is ultra cautious. Not a bad thing in itself but he is way too hesitant at junctions & particularly roundabouts. He never trusts that if a car on the roundabout has its bonnet pointing to the exit before him he is ok to go, meanwhile there is an increasingly frustrated queue building up behind us. If we tell him its ok to go he gets very stroppy!

 

Do any of you have problems of this kind, & if so how do you cope? We are off to Dorset in a couple of months & I want to enjoy being driven!

[bid]

First of all, have to say I eventually learnt to drive on an automatic, because I simply could not cope with the multi-tasking of a manual plus concentrating on the traffic!!

 

I would have thought it's just practice he needs? Once I had learnt to drive that was it, I had to drive every day.

 

It still took me a few years before I was what I would call a confident driver.

 

Would it help with this sort of decision-making/confidence if he did an advanced driver course do you think?

 

to JP, cos we're not even having lessons here!

 

Bid

[Mumble]

What is JP's general spacial awareness like - i.e. crossing the road, sports, walking around rather than into people? I haven't driven since moving to London, but I wonder if (when I get them de-squashed) my blue glasses may make me a less hesitant driver (you could be describing me) as I can cross the road without the green man without them, walk around things etc. I can see in 3D and so judge distances and speeds

 

Also with the speed limit thing, for me, this is a rule thing - the highway code is the rule book and that's what you do - I get very irritated with people who break the rules because it disturbs my understanding of how things work.

[sarahponari]

I passed my test 4 years ago and am only just starting to drive! I find it really difficult as i cant tell what others are going to do before they do it, and i also am slow at pulling off at roundabouts etc, i am hoping that with practice i will get better

[warrenpenalver]

What is JP's general spacial awareness like

Yes id ask him same thing and also ask him how in his own head he judges the relative movement of the other vehicles and when its safe to move. Does he have any rules in his head making things worse for him?

 

I used to be very hessitant having only passed on my 4th driving test with 2 previous failures as a direct result of hesitancy (think they call it "not making due progress" or some wordy term).

 

I only improved when i became 23 when i had to learn relative velocity mathematical problems and started using it in my head driving too. The basic theory thats useful in driving is glancing at the car and seeing if its relative bearing, is it steady, drawing right or drawing left for your current speed. Steady means its either going to hit you or same direction and speed.

 

Its not easy to do those kind of maths in your head first time!!! I guess im lucky i was doing the actual maths daily at work so the figures are already in my head to use on the road.

 

I also project the braking distance of my car ahead onto the road ahead and adjust speed/direction dependant on things in my braking zone.

 

Also with the speed limit thing, for me, this is a rule thing - the highway code is the rule book and that's what you do - I get very irritated with people who break the rules because it disturbs my understanding of how things work.

 

My view on speeding is not rigid because my driving instructor taught me to drive at a speed with which you can stop/avoid hazards in the distance you can see to be clear and that was before i learnt much of the highway code.

 

Otherwise id agree with mumble!! Breaking the rules is VERY disturbing as it screws everything up. Particular things that disturb - lack of indicators, yellow box blocking, people pulling into your safe distance in front, tailgating, illegal parking, people driving over zebra crossings when people still on them

 

I guess most drivers get annoyed by those sort of things too, but for me its not annoyance, but more erm deeper. its hard to describe but for me when rules like that are violated its as if your entire system of normality has been turned on its head. Like all the rules are pointless and it makes me very upset and i want to cry.

[warrenpenalver]

Oh annother thing i find really hard is road signs in towns. I tend to take road signs literally and in towns i often take the wrong turning because they put the sign too far ahead of the junction!!! So many times ive been jumping with joy turning left into an empty road out of heavy traffic to find its the next turning the sign meant.

 

Also in many towns there are "unwritten" rules on lanes to be used for certain directions that completely disregard the signage. That really causes me problems.

 

One roundabout i regularly nearly ram people off the road has three lanes at a set of traffic lights with dash lines filtering each lane into the correct turn off.

 

the left lane is left only, middle lane middle only, right lane is straight and right. I usually am in middle lane to go straight ahead in accordance with the signage and road markings. I regularly get beeped and nearly rammed by people in the left lane who choose to go straight contary to dash markings and all signage.

 

this is a simplified drawing of the bit of the roundabout:

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr.../roundabout.jpg

 

Am i missing some unseen rule?????

[Mumble]

this is a simplified drawing of the bit of the roundabout:

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr.../roundabout.jpg

 

Am i missing some unseen rule?????

 

Based on your diagram I would go in the middle lane to go straight on (or possibly the right hand lane). It seems that those in the right hand lane have to merge into those who take the middle lane, so you're better off taking the middle lane to start with.

 

I would use the left hand lane for either of the first two turns to the left (is the first one a turn?) and the right hand lane for the right hand turn or if I have a male 'map reader' next to me and have to go all the way around the roundabout because yet again he's lost but refuses to admit it or ask for help ... :lol:

[warrenpenalver]

ahh ok mumble so i am reading the junction correctly its just all the local drivers are wrong then.

[pearl]

Thanks for all the replies

 

Would it help with this sort of decision-making/confidence if he did an advanced driver course do you think?

He's done Pass Plus, & I've suggested he books a roundabout refresher with his old instructor (he's 70, imagine Yoda in a Micra ) but I hadnt thought of advanced driving & he would probs enjoy it, thanks bid

 

What is JP's general spacial awareness like

Pretty good I'd say, bit of an odd gait but thats about it. Mr p's is much worse! I've no probs with him sticking to the rules either , tho I do chivvy him up when he slows down below 30 for no good reason.

 

I only improved when i became 23 when i had to learn relative velocity mathematical problems and started using it in my head driving too. The basic theory thats useful in driving is glancing at the car and seeing if its relative bearing, is it steady, drawing right or drawing left for your current speed. Steady means its either going to hit you or same direction and speed.

 

Sorry Warren that when woosh over my head & I cant show it JP as he doesnt know I'm stressing! I usually say to him at junctions, if its safe to cross on foot then its safe to pull out, but roundabouts are more complicated.

 

Bottom line I know this is more my problem than his, he hasnt been driving that long & he does enjoy it, its just with our holiday coming up .... I might suggest we all share the driving then he can do the straightforward motorway stuff.

[Tally]

Advanced driving would also bring down the cost of his insurance.

[warrenpenalver]

Fair enough pearl!!

 

It would be so much easier to explain roundabouts if people actually used thier f**king indicators!!! then at least 75% of cars he saw on rounabouts could be dismissed by default!!

 

Whats he like with sines and cosines and pythagorus theorum??? I could write something you can print if you want and do some noddy pictures to explain relative motion with the maths to back it up. I suspect if he understands the maths then the practical stuff will be more simple for him as at the moment its kind of relying on judgement and very few rules so it must be chaotic for him.

[Mumble]

Whats he like with sines and cosines and pythagorus theorum??? I could write something you can print if you want and do some noddy pictures to explain relative motion with the maths to back it up. I suspect if he understands the maths then the practical stuff will be more simple for him as at the moment its kind of relying on judgement and very few rules so it must be chaotic for him.

Are you sure you're not the driving instructor who finally taught me to drive? :thumbs:

[pearl]

Fair enough pearl!!

 

It would be so much easier to explain roundabouts if people actually used thier f**king indicators!!! then at least 75% of cars he saw on rounabouts could be dismissed by default!!

 

Whats he like with sines and cosines and pythagorus theorum??? I could write something you can print if you want and do some noddy pictures to explain relative motion with the maths to back it up. I suspect if he understands the maths then the practical stuff will be more simple for him as at the moment its kind of relying on judgement and very few rules so it must be chaotic for him.

 

Mmmm, but the "rules" say you shouldnt take any notice of someone indicating in case they simply forgot their indicator was on .... he finds it v hard to trust other drivers not to be idiots (& I dont blame him) even if they are indicating and pointing in the right direction!

 

He is v good at maths so that would be fab if you could do that, thanks

[pearl]

Advanced driving would also bring down the cost of his insurance.

Ooh good point Tally *rubs hands together in Scrooge like fashion*

Its already come down once now he is a pillar of the community working for city council, not a student layabout any more

[Tally]

I don't trust anyone's indicators around here. People simply don't know how to use them in Devon. I regularly see people doing things like waiting in the right turn lane at a roundabout, right indicator flashing, and they go and turn left!

[warrenpenalver]

He is v good at maths so that would be fab if you could do that, thanks

cool ok pearl i shall have a stab at a simple one over the weekend and try and do some pictures to go with it.

 

i will have to remember to replace "contact/target/enemy submarine" with "vehicle"

[warrenpenalver]

Sneak preview for pearl and JP!!

 

this is what to avoid!!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...er/SP_A0023.jpg

[warrenpenalver]

oh yeah im doing it in MS Word so you can see the pictures as part of a fluid document you can print for JP.

[pearl]

Thanks Warren, you are a star

[Canopus]

Oh annother thing i find really hard is road signs in towns. I tend to take road signs literally and in towns i often take the wrong turning because they put the sign too far ahead of the junction!!! So many times ive been jumping with joy turning left into an empty road out of heavy traffic to find its the next turning the sign meant.

 

Some towns are signposted better than others. It has crossed my mind that badly signposted places (especially rural areas) could be the result of locals not liking outsiders venturing into their territory. The locals know the place well so don't need signs.

 

Also in many towns there are "unwritten" rules on lanes to be used for certain directions that completely disregard the signage. That really causes me problems.

 

One roundabout i regularly nearly ram people off the road has three lanes at a set of traffic lights with dash lines filtering each lane into the correct turn off.

 

the left lane is left only, middle lane middle only, right lane is straight and right. I usually am in middle lane to go straight ahead in accordance with the signage and road markings. I regularly get beeped and nearly rammed by people in the left lane who choose to go straight contary to dash markings and all signage.

 

Lane discipline is something I still can't master despite driving for over 10 years. The situation worsens in heavy traffic because the lane markings are covered over by cars and there aren't always signs telling you what lane you should be in. Every large roundabout seems to have its own unique protocol for which lane is used for which exit.

[warrenpenalver]

Pearl! The guide is 75% done! should have it done by end of week latest!!

[pearl]

3.22 AM???? I am well impressed! No rush chuck.

[warrenpenalver]

Pearl, if you pm me an email i will send you the MS Word document including embedded images.

[warrenpenalver]

Relative Velocity and Motion analysis for cars!!

 

THE BASIC CONCEPT TO UNDERSTAND WITH RELATIVE VELOCITY IS THAT THE ACTUAL SPEEDS OF THE TWO VEHICLES IS JUST A FIGURE USED IN CALCULATIONS.

 

THE MOVEMENT OF THE OTHER VEHICLE RELATIVE TO YOUR VEHICLE IS THE IMPORTANT MOTION, NOT THE FACT IT IS DOING 30MPH.

 

WHEN USING THESE FORMULA BEAR IN MIND THEY ARE DESIGNED TO BE CALCULATED IN YOUR HEAD FOR SLOW SPEED VEHICLES UP TO 30MPH (MAX SPEED MOST SHIPS!!), SO USE THEM AS A MEANS OF BUILDING SPATIAL AWARENESS AND HOW TWO DIFFERENT CARS INTERACT AS THEY MOVE.

 

[/u] PRACTICE THE FORMULAE OUT OF THE CAR AS WHEN DRIVING YOU WILL NOT HAVE TIME TO MAKE CALCULATIONS, BUT THE INCREASED SPATIAL AWARENESS AND MATHS IN YOUR HEAD WILL MEAN YOUR JUDGEMENT WILL HAVE IMPROVED AND GIVE YOU BETTER APPRECIATION OF THE SITUATION AND HOW TO AVOID A CRASH.

 

FOR THE PURPOSES OF THE GUIDE THIS FORD PUMA IS JP?S CAR (OR ANY OTHER READER):

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr.../SP_A0039-1.jpg

 

THE TARGET CAR IS THE ONE YOU ARE TRYING TO AVOID OR WORK OUT ITS INTENTIONS AND FOR THIS GUIDE IS THIS FORD FOCUS WRC:

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr.../SP_A0038-1.jpg

 

The Target Motion Analysis Triangle

 

This is a diagram of the mathematical angles used for the basic calculations. As you can see the maths is based around a right angle triangle. The target in this case is the other car.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...tmatriangle.jpg

 

Note: Special note should be taken of the difference between the VB and SB.

 

KEY

VB CAR DRIVERS SEAT

SB FRONT BUMPER

Vo VELOCITY OWN CAR

Vc VELOCITY OTHER CAR

DOT DISTANCE OFF TRACK (APROXIMATELY HOW CLOSE CARS WILL PASS)

OSA OWN SPEED ACROSS

TSA TARGET SPEED ACROSS

RSA RESULTANT SPEED ACROSS

OSL OWN SPEED ALONG

TSL TARGET SPEED ALONG

 

 

Bearing Rate (B�)

 

a. The B� is generated by the combined movement of own car and the contact. It is related to the Resultant Speed Across (RSA) and the cars range by using the formula:

 

Bdot(degs/min) = 1936 x RSA

..............................Range (Yds)

 

Bdot(degs/min) = 2 x RSA

..................... ........Range (Kyds)

 

b. This formula is used extensively in the process of TMA and will be discussed again later in this chapter. B� is, besides our own course and speed, the only piece of true information that we have.

 

c. In simple terms the bearing rate is how much the other car is moving across your field of vision when looking at it. It can either be drawing left, drawing right or steady.

 

Left Bearing Rate

 

These are two examples of left bearing rate. Watch how the car draws left yet the angle on the bonnet is different in each case and how the relative velocity is more important.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...rawingleft1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...rawingleft2.jpg

 

Right Bearing Rate

 

These are two examples of right bearing rate. Watch how the car draws right yet the angle on the bonnet is different in each case and how the relative velocity is more important.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...awingright1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...awingright2.jpg

 

Steady Bearing Rate

 

Basically a vehicle who relative bearing is steady is either same direction and speed as you (ie two lanes of traffic at same speed) OR MORE LIKELY going to eventually hit you unless you take avoiding action.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...eadybearing.jpg

 

The simple solution is to slow down so the car passes ahead.

 

Own Manoeuvres

 

The fundamental principles of bearings only TMA concerns the effect changes of Own ship's Speed Across (OSA) the bearing has on the B�. How this applies in car relative velocity is to use the figures to determine how changes of direction and speed of your car effect how close you will pass to the target car.

 

Calculation of Own Speed Across (OSA)

 

a. The components which make up own speed across (OSA) are:

 

(1) Own Ship's speed.

(2) The difference between ship's head and Target Bearing, known as Relative Bearing.

 

b. Using the formula below it is then possible to calculate OSA:

 

(1) Sine (Relative Bearing) x Own Speed = OSA kts. (knots = Milesperhour)

 

c. The direction in which OSA is determined is from the target bearing to own ship's course. See example in the Figure below.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...OSAtraingle.jpg

 

 

Calculation of Target Speed Across (TSA)

 

a. The components which make up TSA are:

 

(1) Target speed.

(2) The difference between the reciprocal target bearing and targets course, known as the Angle on the Target's Bonnet (ATB).

 

Sine ATB x Target's Speed = TSA kts. (knots=miles per hour)

 

b. The direction of TSA is determined by the targets ATB.

 

If Port then TSA's direction is LEFT;

if Stbd, then TSA's direction is RIGHT.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...tsatriangle.jpg

 

Calculation of Resultant Speed Across (RSA)

 

a. To calculate RSA the values of OSA and TSA are added or subtracted depending on their directions. See examples in the two Figures below.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr.../rsadiagram.jpg

 

b. Therefore the value of RSA is derived as follows:

 

(1) Opposite directions of OSA and TSA are added (Example 1).

(2) Same directions of OSA and TSA are subtracted (Example 2).

 

Note: The RSA is always in the same direction as the Bearing Rate.

 

 

The Clock Face Rule - used to calculate sine?s mentally.

 

The angles applied using this rule (where the number of degrees of the angle = number of minutes on the clock face) are equivalent to the fractions of a circular clock face. This rule will produce a close approximation to the exact sine when used to calculate the value of angles up to 40�.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...r/clockface.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...ockexample1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...ockexample2.jpg

 

Angles greater than 40 Degrees

 

The accuracy of the Clock Face Rule diminishes when applied to angles greater than 40� and should not be used. To determine the sine value of angles between 40� - 70� simply add 25 and a decimal point.

 

Example 1 - Find the sine of an angle of 50�.

 

50 + 25 = 75

(Add a decimal point). = 0.75 (and by calculator 0.766)

 

Example 2 - Find the sine of an angle of 65�.

 

65 + 25 = 90

(Add a decimal point). = 0.90 (and by calculator 0.906)

 

The accuracy of this method diminishes when applied to angles greater than 70�. For angles between 70� - 90� the exact sine should be used.

 

Range

 

Ranges can be calculated mentally by adjusting the standard formulae.

 

a. 1936 method. Substitute the 1936 constant with a figure 2. This will produce an answer in kyds.

 

(1) Standard formula.

 

Range (in yds) = 1936 x(Change in OSA)

...........................(Change in B�)

 

(2) Adjusted formula.

 

Range (in Kyds) = 2 x (Change in OSA)

.............................(Change in B�)

 

 

Example. 2 x 7.5 = 15 = 5 kyds

.....................3........3

 

b. RSA method. If the course and speed of a contact is known or can be estimated, then RSA can be calculated and used to produce a range.

 

(1) Standard formula

 

RSA = Range x B�

...............1936

 

(2) Adjusted formula

 

Range (in Kyds) = 2 x RSA

.............................B�

 

Example 2 x 4.5 = 9 = 6 kyds

..................1.5.....1.5

 

Distance off Track ? how close the car will pass

 

DOT = Range x Sine ATB

 

Example DOT = 12000 x Sine 20 = 4101 yds

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warrenpenalver/dot.jpg

 

Speed, Time and Distance Aide Memoire

 

a. In 6 minutes a contact will travel one tenth of its speed in miles.

b. In 3 minutes a contact will travel an equal number of hundreds of yards as its speed in knots.

c. In 1 minute a contact will travel an equal number of hundreds of feet as its speed in knots.

 

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr.../dotformula.jpg

[pearl]

I didnt understand one single word of that Warren (apart from the email bit) but I'm sure JP will!

Many, many thanks for taking so much trouble <'>

[Mumble]

:clap: :notworthy:

 

Is it wrong that I have an image of a dual terrain vehicle when looking at pictures of cars and reading about speed in knots ....??

[bid]

Warren, my love, just take this with you when you go for your AS assessment!! <'>

 

Bid

[CEJesson]

Congratulations to those who have passed their test!

 

I do not drive, it was either come to university or driving lessons, due to financial reasons

 

However, I hope that I can take lessons in the 4th year of my course, will have to work on the nerves bit yet as Im nervous

as a passenger in a car let alone a driver! Its very annoying being so obsessed about cars and not being able to drive one!

 

What cars do you all drive?

[pearl]

We drive a Nissan Primera & JP shares the insurance.

Had to overcome a HUGE psychological barrier to buy Japanese, always bought British, reason being, my dear departed Dad was in the far east during the war & narrowly escaped being a POW. Although the least prejudiced man of his generation I ever had the privilege of knowing, he could never bring himself to buy Japanese because of his past, & that filtered down to me.

 

So after spending a grand on repairs on our last Rover, the garage guys kept telling me to buy Jap, your Dad wont't mind, they said, he would want you to have a reliable car. So I did, & they were right, this is our 2nd Nissan & we are trying to trade up every couple of years till we get nearly new.

 

Chris, you will probs find you are less nervous driving than being a passenger. I'm the same, its a control thing.

[Canopus]

Lots of Rovers were technically Japanese. I had a Rover that was the same as a Honda Concerto apart from the engine and the trim. I also had a Triumph Acclaim where the only thing British was the badge!

[CEJesson]

Lots of Rovers were technically Japanese. I had a Rover that was the same as a Honda Concerto apart from the engine and the trim. I also had a Triumph Acclaim where the only thing British was the badge!

 

I know lots about Rovers, they are an obsession!

Hence why Im a member of www.mg-rover.org!

[pearl]

Lots of Rovers were technically Japanese. I had a Rover that was the same as a Honda Concerto apart from the engine and the trim. I also had a Triumph Acclaim where the only thing British was the badge!

 

See, all that worry for nothing, sheesh.

[warrenpenalver]

Warren, my love, just take this with you when you go for your AS assessment!! <'>

 

Bid

why?

Does it help to print out my ramblings like this then???

 

What cars do you all drive?

 

A Ford Fiesta RS1800 fitted with a 2.0L engine and uprated brakes and suspension.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...lver/fiesta.jpg

 

MY track car which ive just sold (joys of financing a house).

Originally a Ford Puma 1700 before it was rebuilt totally for track and rally and resprayed in the Ford colours for thier demo rally car.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...finished5-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...r/seatsin-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...ringwheel-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...dsdruids3-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...ssurtees2-1.jpg

 

Once im settled out of navy and have finacial stability i will build a new project but i want 4 wheel drive and turbo power.

[pearl]

Ooh I LOVE that checked car!!!!!

[warrenpenalver]

awwww ty pearl. that car was my baby for 3 1/2 years until i blew the engine up a couple of weeks before being forced into the mental hospital. Unortunately i couldnt afford to fix it as i built it using a bonus so eventually split it for parts i could re-use and sold shell to an enthusiast.

 

This is the puma taken at a special photoshoot:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...ver/studio5.jpg

 

I had a race prpared engine in it including throttle bodies that cost �3500

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...er/e1356fd0.jpg

 

Kenny from southpark used to live in my car but when i build another one it will be the rabbits

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...alver/kenny.jpg

 

This is what it started out as:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/warr...er/CNV00009.jpg

[pearl]

Amaaaaaazing

[warrenpenalver]

ty pearl!!

 

My next project wil be faster and better handling with hopefully 4wd if i can get the specialist parts cheap enough. Im hoping to learn to weld so i can do more work myself as being unemployed soon and a student the projects will need to be done by me with bits ive got and raw materials. The last one cost me �7000 in labour to build it so plenty of money to be saved by DIY.