Problem with my 8 year old. Can you help?

[fiorelli]

I have a problem with my 8 year old. I am not sure whether it is;

 

a) 'normal' 8 year old behaviour,

b ) 'normal' boy behaviour

c) attention seeking behaviour

d) copycat behaviour

e) behaviour due to the things he's had to deal with for the last 8 years.

f) a combination of some/all of the above.

g) hormones

 

My 8 year old 'P' has always 'suffered' at the hands of L, when L is in a meltdown, P is the one who knows about it first. P is the one that has the scratches on his face, the bite marks, the pushing, the swearing - I think you get the picture. (There is 18 mths age difference between L and P.) Usually, this all flies over P's head and he picks himself up and carries on. He has a wicked sense of humour, is very funny, kind, thoughful, cuddly, loving, but lately, his attitude is changing. He has terrible moodswings, one minute he is the above, next minute he is shouting, swearing, refusing to do as we ask, next he is in tears saying he wishes he was dead, he has deliberatly banged his head against walls in front of me. He used to go to bed really well at night, but now will stay up until around 10pm making noise and aggravating his 2 younger brothers, keeping them awake. He also knows which buttons to press to get L to fly off the handle, so does that often (which in a wierd way is good for L as he is learning how to walk away and ignore P)

 

He says he has no friends in school, but on talking to his class teacher, she said that his friend network is good, that there isn't a problem with behaviour in class, other than he could work a bit quicker! He has also been invited to a couple of birthday parties and invited round to a friend's house.

 

Talking to him is no use. He either clams up and doesn't say anything or shouts at us that there's nothing wrong. I try to give him extra time, make sure I give him lots of hugs and tell him I love him, I also make sure that I tell him that I am here for him to talk to should he need to, or if he can't talk to me, then to talk to someone in school (there is a good set-up in their school where they have a group of 'listeners' - some year 6 pupils and teachers, and have 'worry boxes' where they can write a note, and put it in there and then their 'worry' will be addressed by the appropriate person).

 

We have an appointment for L in August with CAMHS, so I am thinking of picking their brains while we are there and seeing if they have any ideas.

Edited June 10, 2008 by fiorelli

[baddad]

Hi fiorelli -

 

This may not be what you want to hear, but it sounds to me like he's starting to resent his 'role' as caring older brother a little, and to feel disenfranchised and differentiated against because expectations of him are different to those for his brother...

It's not attention seeking, as such, and it doesn't mean that your not doing everything you can to give each child equal attention, but the dynamics of the latter would be incredibly difficult for an 8 year old to understand and make sense of.

 

Bit pushed for time now, but two things to consider:

 

You've described many of the behaviours he's displaying as 'copycat' - so I assume their the kinds of things your younger son does in 'meltdown'... Do you respond to both children in the same way? if not, why not? Should you? Is there something about your response to L that P could be seeking from you?

 

which in a wierd way is good for L as he is learning how to walk away and ignore P

 

Maybe L isn't quite so 'out of control' when he does some of the things he does as you assume, and maybe P sees and resents this? Maybe he feels the rules are different, and he doesn't know why?

 

Hope that's helpful/food for thought

 

[Kazzen161]

You could ask at the school whether they have someone he can talk to (an ELSA or the school nurse). My son had a couple of sessions with the school nurse (a bit like counselling) and he found it helpful.

[mummy]

My gut feeling is that P is fed up of being picked on by his older brother. (I would of thought 8 is too young for hormaones) Having the constant feeling of being bullied must grind him down. My sons had similar problems although it was Eldest (AS) who was being bullied by youngest (ADHD) until he began to have angry out bursts himself. we found a counsellor with experience in special needs who was brilliant and eldest now has other ways of expressing himself and de-stressing.

 

It sounds as if P is really fed up and starting to copy the way that L expresses his feelings. you are doing all the right things by reassuring him of your love and offering support and making sure he knows you are there if he needs to talk so maybe now is the time to get some outside help as he can't continue to behave like this.

 

Mummy x

[fiorelli]

Thank you all for replying (sorry I'm late to come back to this).

 

(for clarification, L is 18 months older than P)

 

Baddad, I think you may be right. He probably is resenting his role in the family, and to be fair, I don't blame him. I can understand where he is coming from, but that doesn't mean that he can or should get away with some of his behaviour as it stands at the minute.

 

We try and keep discipline the same through all 4 of our children. We have our rules that are there for all of them, they have by and large been successful for us and the children. We try and keep constant with our rules and chastisements, and my husband and I present a united front so as the boys know that they cannot play one off against the other (believe me, they have tried!) We also make sure that we reward all the good behaviour, so it truly is a 2-way street. We are not perfect. I know that. We may stray from our 'rules' depending on the situation.

 

We had the closure meeting yesterday with P's mentor's manager. We discussed P, and as a result, the manager is going to look at whether it is possible to extend his mentoring for a few months to deal specifically with P's feelings at the minute. The manager thinks that some of P's behaviour may be due to the fact that the mentoring is coming to a close after 9 months (the scheme has not been given the funding to continue it's work in our area), and that the closure may not have been carried out as well as it could have been.

 

Kazzen, I asked at the school reception when the school nurse would be coming in, and they gave me her phone number. As yet, I've been unable to get hold of her.

 

Mummy, you are right, we do need some outside help. But it is a case of where on earth do I start to find that? But I do have an action plan...

I am seeing his class teacher tomorrow after school

I am trying to to contact the school nurse to get her thoughts and advice (she was pivotal in helping us get L assessed when he was in yr R/yr 1)

I will be speaking to L's CAMHS psychiatrist in August and picking her brains

I am looking at finding ways to do things specifically with P so as he gets some 'special' time.

I am continuing to reassure P, and tell him I love him, and here for him to talk to.

I am trying to spend some time every day focussed on just P. (I am actually trying to do this now with all 4 of my boys)

 

 

Several people now have asked me whether P has 'some of what L has got' or 'how old is P now? You do know that at the age of around 9, Aspergers is usually diagnosed?' (P's mentor's manager!). I'm beginning to wonder whether to push for an assessment just to rule it out...

[Imelda]

Hi

I agree with that all that has been said. My daughter started to copy my asd sons behavour.(she is 3 years younger) I picked the brains of the psyc and he said there was nothing wrong with her.

Its really hard trying to juggle everything, you try to give equal attention and reasure the nt child you are there for them.

Its all go with our kids isn't it?

[Shnoing]

I think it might be a mixture of:

d) copycat behaviour

e) behaviour due to the things he's had to deal with for the last 8 years.

At 8, he will be aware of how his older brother is different from 'usual' older brothers. So maybe he's acting out his inner conflicts. It's not 'attention seeking behaviour' in the sense that he intends it so, but in the sense that indeed you should give him more attention.

[Zosmum]

I ahd a similar thing with my 5 year old dd. She has had to put up with her sister 12 creating to get all the attention. Z(12) is always doing something, whether it's another assessment, therapist or psych appointment. C(5) started asking why is it always about Z. As one of her therapies Z goes riding (horses are her "thing") so I found C her own "thing"(hobby) which only she can do. Z isn't allowed to join in. It seemed to help quite a lot, so now when it's all about Z, I just remind C that she has her "thing" to do on a Saturday pm

Hope this helps (even if just a little)

[fiorelli]

Thanks for replying,

 

Zosmum, that is a good idea, and I am looking at some things that P can do at the minute. He has several things that he has asked to do, but as we live in a tiny town, the waiting lists are quite long for children's activities, adn the cost means that it isn't always feasible.

 

 

 

I has the meeting with his teacher today, she agrees that his moodswings are a concern, as is the change in his ability to want to do things in school. She is going to speak with the SENCO and see what avenues there are for support for P. She is going to let me know on Monday.

[Zosmum]

Make sure you also ask at school about anything P can get into. Maybe after school footie or if available swimming. If they're linked to school they're usually cheaper and maybe something he can do with his freinds <'>

[Zosmum]

You could also try asking the senco if P can do small jobs for the teacher he has, like taking things to the school office for her/him.

If we've had a really bad start to the day with Z, then C's teacher gives her small jobs to do in the classroom as this distacts her from what has happened at home.

They seem to forget that siblings suffer as much if not more than the child with the dx. They don't get abreak from it and sometimes they just need 5 minutes on their own without having to deal with what's going on in the classroom

 

Good Luck