JudithR Report post Posted November 23, 2008 Hello I am a Learning Development Tutor at a University and I have to give training to library personnel about how they can help students with Asperger's Syndrome. I wonder if any of you who are at college or university have anything they would like to tell me about: What they like about libraries. What causes them difficulties. You do not have to give your names but I would like to quote some of your comments. Thank you. JudithR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mumble Report post Posted November 23, 2008 I assume you're meaning university libraries as opposed to public libraries (which I could write you an essay on ). These answers relate to university libraries - I have two I use at my uni - one very very old with a reading room and everything (read 'proper library'), but it doesn't hold the majority of books for my subject, and one modern (read 'student friendly but not AS friendly') that is where I have to go for most of my books. What they like about libraries. Quiet The structure - books in order etc Good library catalogue which also allows renewing of books over the Internet - before I had to go in because I don't use a phone The journals rooms (most students don't venture in there as there is a high risk of not emerging again - so much better than Hampton Court Maze!! ) In the old library - the smell of the really old books and the highly polished wooden shelves etc. What causes them difficulties. Two categories: Sensory and Rule-Breaking Sensory - fluorescent lights (and shiny surfaces they bounce off), open-plan environment so noise carries, computer area noise carrying (fans on computers, people typing, people talking) Rule-breaking - mainly noise, talking, shouting, using mobile phones, MP3 players, sound on laptops. I did ask a student to take her mobile outside once and I got told off by the librarian for talking as the other student put her phone away and got away with it resulting in me having my library card marked for inappropriate behaviour In the 'modern' library, the librarians generally don't enforce the rules, so people get away with noise, bringing in cups of coffee (which get split ruining desks/books/computers), eat food (again ruining resources and it's smelly). There are signs up everywhere about conduct but I often wonder why the librarians bother printing them when they don't enforce them. Plus the room set aside for quiet with a computer for students with 'disabilities' is solely designed for students with dyslexia. I don't need speech recognition software in the library so as I'm not using that I get accused of using the room fraudulently - I shouldn't have to explain myself to any grumpy librarian who thinks it's his/her business to give me a hard time - if they're that concerned, they should be able to programme a code onto our library cards so the librarian can take it, swipe it, and details come up on their computer saying I am entitled to use disability services even though (shock horror) I don't look 'disabled'. Because of the sensory/rule-breaking issues I have it written into my Assessment of Need report that I'm allowed books out for double the loan period (so I have to go less often), I can photocopy more and it's paid for (so I don't have to put up with library environment to read books/journals not allowed out) and if I need it (but haven't used it) I can call the library (that's why I haven't used it - I can't use a phone but they keep saying call however many times I tell them ) and ask for the books I want to be put aside so I just go in, collect them, go out. Although these concessions are useful, I have an issue with them - often you find something useful you weren't looking for just by browsing the shelves which I would miss out on. Also, if the clearly displayed rules were followed there would be very little need for any support and I wouldn't be disabled by the environment. Sorry, I've gone on a bit, but it's an issue that really affects me and that I feel strongly about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScienceGeek Report post Posted November 23, 2008 I really like libraries! The one at our university though I struggle to cope with. Things I like: - Stumbling across a random interesting book - The smell of old books - The structure is quite calming for me - The range of subjects available - The long opening times - Reading the latest newspapers/magazines/journals Things I dislike: - The noise that students need to make - That students and staff use the corridor next to the disability section to have their arguments, hey there I'm trying to work here! - For some reason they have fluorescent lighting in the disability section - "modernising" the library so everything has shiny reflective surfaces to bounce the evil light off - People eating loud food in the library - People who put books back in the wrong place - Only allowed 3 renewals (difficult to get through when the book is short/medium loan) - Not enough computers in the disabled section I think that is all... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mumble Report post Posted November 23, 2008 - Not enough computers in the disabled section We have one - beat that! To me that just says everything about my uni's approach to disabled students Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NobbyNobbs Report post Posted November 23, 2008 i like public libraries, but find the university one very hard to use for the following reasons - it is very loud, open plan with over 100 computers in one room and the study area in the same room - there is nowhere private to study. the study areas are all open plan, with the only desks with partitions facing so you have to sit with your back to the rest of the room. - people using the computers are on mobil phones, or shouting across to people on other computers - the computers are always full of people who aren't using them to study. this means if you actually want to work you cant - certain rooms smell really bad! the one quiet place i found to study was an AV room, but it stank of urine - lights are too bright, it doesn't need to be neon to be light enough to read! - its always either too hot or too cold. where the computers are it is always so hot people are sweating - there are so many different colours; red chairs, blue carpet, green walls, patterns, signs and who knows what else - we dont have a disability section. if i try to use one of the computers set aside for disabled students i get told off because i dont look disabled. - there is a costa coffee bar in the middle of the study room! the milk foam mchine is incredibly noisy, the whole thing smells and encourages people to use up the very limited space chatting and drinking coffee when studying abroad i found the university library completely different. there i loved; - it was all quiet, noone was messing around. the library was for work, not social time - there were study areas which were completely enclosed cubicles so that i could concentrate. there were also mini sound-proofed rooms with a desk, 4-6 chairs and a blackboard to enable groups to discuss work without disturbing other people - the shelves of books were spread further apart which made it easier to find what i needed without being stuck standing in one place for 10 minutes while another person blocks the aisle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JudithR Report post Posted November 23, 2008 I assume you're meaning university libraries as opposed to public libraries (which I could write you an essay on ). These answers relate to university libraries - I have two I use at my uni - one very very old with a reading room and everything (read 'proper library'), but it doesn't hold the majority of books for my subject, and one modern (read 'student friendly but not AS friendly') that is where I have to go for most of my books. Quiet The structure - books in order etc Good library catalogue which also allows renewing of books over the Internet - before I had to go in because I don't use a phone The journals rooms (most students don't venture in there as there is a high risk of not emerging again - so much better than Hampton Court Maze!! ) In the old library - the smell of the really old books and the highly polished wooden shelves etc. Two categories: Sensory and Rule-Breaking Sensory - fluorescent lights (and shiny surfaces they bounce off), open-plan environment so noise carries, computer area noise carrying (fans on computers, people typing, people talking) Rule-breaking - mainly noise, talking, shouting, using mobile phones, MP3 players, sound on laptops. I did ask a student to take her mobile outside once and I got told off by the librarian for talking as the other student put her phone away and got away with it resulting in me having my library card marked for inappropriate behaviour In the 'modern' library, the librarians generally don't enforce the rules, so people get away with noise, bringing in cups of coffee (which get split ruining desks/books/computers), eat food (again ruining resources and it's smelly). There are signs up everywhere about conduct but I often wonder why the librarians bother printing them when they don't enforce them. Plus the room set aside for quiet with a computer for students with 'disabilities' is solely designed for students with dyslexia. I don't need speech recognition software in the library so as I'm not using that I get accused of using the room fraudulently - I shouldn't have to explain myself to any grumpy librarian who thinks it's his/her business to give me a hard time - if they're that concerned, they should be able to programme a code onto our library cards so the librarian can take it, swipe it, and details come up on their computer saying I am entitled to use disability services even though (shock horror) I don't look 'disabled'. Because of the sensory/rule-breaking issues I have it written into my Assessment of Need report that I'm allowed books out for double the loan period (so I have to go less often), I can photocopy more and it's paid for (so I don't have to put up with library environment to read books/journals not allowed out) and if I need it (but haven't used it) I can call the library (that's why I haven't used it - I can't use a phone but they keep saying call however many times I tell them ) and ask for the books I want to be put aside so I just go in, collect them, go out. Although these concessions are useful, I have an issue with them - often you find something useful you weren't looking for just by browsing the shelves which I would miss out on. Also, if the clearly displayed rules were followed there would be very little need for any support and I wouldn't be disabled by the environment. Sorry, I've gone on a bit, but it's an issue that really affects me and that I feel strongly about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JudithR Report post Posted November 23, 2008 Sorry not very good at this yet. I have (well I think I have) said thank you to you all for sharing your thoughts. I hope you receive one of these thank yous. JudithR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted November 23, 2008 Hi I'm not AS but I work in a recently refurbed uni library & had a great big rant about it a while back as I could see the problems it would cause for anyone on the spectrum (well, anyone not wearing sunglasses really) Here's the thread: Rant Goes insanely off topic eventually but might give you a laugh. Having read some of the responses here, ours doesnt seem quite so bad now! We do have some large silent study areas as a result of the refurb & I believe the rules are being enforced quite rigorously. Anyone with AS can gain extra time on loans, fines waived etc, though I've only known one student do this. If students with sensory issues could somehow be teleported in, thus avoiding the ground floor, we'd have cracked it ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mumble Report post Posted November 23, 2008 Goes insanely off topic eventually but might give you a laugh. A thread of yours? Off-topic? Surely not... If students with sensory issues could somehow be teleported in, thus avoiding the ground floor, we'd have cracked it ... Erm, can't everyone teleport? I know I can, although I haven't quite got full control of where I end up - how else do you account for me heading for the doctors but finding myself in the cake shop? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted November 23, 2008 I think you might have been slightly instrumental in the wandering tendencies of that thread m'dear .. see, you're doing it again! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warrenpenalver Report post Posted November 24, 2008 - how else do you account for me heading for the doctors but finding myself in the cake shop? HA HA HA Im similar when driving!! I end up on a detour via lots of bendy country lanes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
puffin Report post Posted November 25, 2008 I assume you're meaning university libraries as opposed to public libraries (which I could write you an essay on ). These answers relate to university libraries - I have two I use at my uni - one very very old with a reading room and everything (read 'proper library'), but it doesn't hold the majority of books for my subject, and one modern (read 'student friendly but not AS friendly') that is where I have to go for most of my books. Because of the sensory/rule-breaking issues I have it written into my Assessment of Need report that I'm allowed books out for double the loan period (so I have to go less often), I can photocopy more and it's paid for (so I don't have to put up with library environment to read books/journals not allowed out) and if I need it (but haven't used it) I can call the library (that's why I haven't used it - I can't use a phone but they keep saying call however many times I tell them ) and ask for the books I want to be put aside so I just go in, collect them, go out. Although these concessions are useful, I have an issue with them - often you find something useful you weren't looking for just by browsing the shelves which I would miss out on. Also, if the clearly displayed rules were followed there would be very little need for any support and I wouldn't be disabled by the environment. Sorry, I've gone on a bit, but it's an issue that really affects me and that I feel strongly about. I was wondering Mumble - does your University have online reservations for books? I am a (non ASD) PhD student in another country and online ordering or books has been used ever since I started in 2001 - I live over 100 miles from Uni but from the comfort of my own home: - i can search and order and even choose which library you want your book delivered to - then there are shelves just by the librarian's area where you pick them up. - I can also e-mail the librarian with unsual requests - for example if you want t report written in the UK in 1960 - they organise a copy - I can search other University libraries and then e-mail the librarian to organise an inter- library loan - I can search all journalsonline from home Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mumble Report post Posted November 25, 2008 I was wondering Mumble - does your University have online reservations for books? I am a (non ASD) PhD student in another country and online ordering or books has been used ever since I started in 2001 - I live over 100 miles from Uni but from the comfort of my own home: - i can search and order and even choose which library you want your book delivered to - then there are shelves just by the librarian's area where you pick them up. - I can also e-mail the librarian with unsual requests - for example if you want t report written in the UK in 1960 - they organise a copy - I can search other University libraries and then e-mail the librarian to organise an inter- library loan - I can search all journalsonline from home I have some of that - I can view journals (well subscribed ones...) online which is an absolute life-saver. I can ask for the books I want to be specifically put aside as an agreement as a concession for my disability, but I have to phone in my request (ain't going to happen) and I also like to be able to get my own books, because often I'll find in picking one of the shelf I'll see something else nearby that might be really useful but that didn't come up in the catalogue. Inter-library loans etc they do, but we have to pay �3.50 a time (even if you want two articles from the same issue of one journal - yes I did have an argument about just how illogical that was... ). As for being delivered to a library of your choice, that would be fantastic as one of the uni's libraries is literally two minutes down the road from my halls but not much use as it doesn't have many of the books I need - it would be brilliant if they could be sent there for collection as it would avoid all the sensory issues with public transport, but I doubt my uni would care Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted November 25, 2008 (edited) even if you want two articles from the same issue of one journal - yes I did have an argument about just how illogical that was... ) your librarian doesn't know her copyright law, it is verboten to have two copies of different articles from the same issue (no idea why). We would send for the whole journal issue for one fee & lend it you as a book, thus saving you money & us from being evil. And �3.50 is well expensive. Ours are �2. Mind you, given that since the latest restructure the Inter Library Loan department comprises, er .... me, and the current backlog is 3 weeks, I reckon we should be paying students for the wait at the moment Sorry, I can bore for England about Copyright Law Edited November 25, 2008 by pearl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JudithR Report post Posted November 26, 2008 Hi all you wondering threads or thread wanderers. Thanks for your input. I did not realise that libraries could be so annoying - this is really useful information. Is there anything about the University Librarians could improve the way they interact with people with Asperger's Syndrome? All comments would be appreciated. Thank you. JudithR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mumble Report post Posted November 26, 2008 your librarian doesn't know her copyright law, it is verboten to have two copies of different articles from the same issue (no idea why). *kicks copies of articles under bed* So let me get this right, if there's an article and a response (as you often get in my subject - someone writes something, someone else goes "what the ###### are you on about, actually it's like this") I'm not allowed to copy both articles and am only allowed one side of the argument?? Now that is insane. Is there anything about the University Librarians could improve the way they interact with people with Asperger's Syndrome? Yes. Unfortunately given the way the library (esp the modern one) has evolved, and the appalling behaviour of many students, the librarians have developed a helpless stance (they call security if it gets really bad ) meaning they won't tackle anti-social behaviour for fear of abuse (which sadly happens) and that the majority have developed a certain 'attitude' towards students, meaning they think of us all as evil book pinching, coffee spilling, music playing, foul mouthed idiots. They don't (maybe they don't feel safe to) on the whole see us as individuals and accept we're not all like that (I have two librarians who now know me, but it's taken 4 years to reach that stage). It means they don't give students any time or accept that we might have a genuine query (I've been shouted at as I approached the issue desk "don't you know how to use self-service" as the other students get shouted at because they can't be bothered to bring their self-service cards/remember pins etc. when actually I was going to the issue desk because I wanted a book that was so old it couldn't go through the new electronic scanners) (similarly I took a book back to the desk that was really old as I didn't want to chuck it in the returns bin as it would have fallen apart and got shouted at "can't you read the notices" - there was me trying to care for the property and they wanted me to damage it ). Sorry, I've gone on a bit, how could they help: Have it identified on our library cards that we are entitled to use disability facilities, may need support etc (symbol on card? - there's plenty on them already so something else wouldn't stand out) so we don't get told off (which causes distress) We have someone responsible for disabilities in the library but I've never been told who or been introduced - at the point of assessment of Need, a meeting should be arranged When doing orientation events for disabled students maybe accept the AS students won't come forwards as they involve lots of mainly 'dyslexic' students and an event like that may be daunting - offer one to one induction Staff training so librarians know how much things like rule breaking are an issue so they understand why we may make a complaint Understand that we may get really stressed by fines, not being able to return books and offer some lee-way (agreed in advance) (for instance I was in hospital recently and freaked out when I realised my library books needed to go back - not the most important thing in life, but to me I had broken a rule) Either have rules and follow them or don't have rules Ensure that at least some silent study areas are silent (And not large - I get really distracted by others tapping pens etc.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JudithR Report post Posted November 26, 2008 Hi all you wondering threads or thread wanderers. Thanks for your input. I did not realise that libraries could be so annoying - this is really useful information. Is there anything about the University Librarians could improve the way they interact with people with Asperger's Syndrome? All comments would be appreciated. Thank you. JudithR Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted November 26, 2008 *kicks copies of articles under bed* So let me get this right, if there's an article and a response (as you often get in my subject - someone writes something, someone else goes "what the ###### are you on about, actually it's like this") I'm not allowed to copy both articles and am only allowed one side of the argument?? Now that is insane. Yup, its insane, but no one ever said copyright law was sane You can obtain the whole issue & copy whatever you like so long as we don't know about it. But I didn't say that If the response is in a separate issue - no problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
