help!! Son-rise

[angelar]

HI

I am trying to get in contact with anybody who has every been on the son-rise course, as I am thinking of going down this route but would like to speak to other people first. thanks

[TheNeil]

No first hand experience but the Son-Rise programme is, to me anyway, not a positive or beneficial system (and it's not a cheap option either from what I've seen).

 

I have read up and done research in the past on this and their methods are, to me, abhorant (physically restraining kids and forcing them to make eye contact etc.)(sadly I can't remember where I came across this example) and they seem to be based more around making people with ASDs more 'acceptable' to other people rather than helping the person themselves. It certainly doesn't celebrate ASDs but almost attempts to stigmatise them and suggest that being on the spectrum is, in some way, 'wrong'. I feel that they do nothing to help people better understand ASDs and, if anything, make life more difficult for those who accept that life isn't just black and white but shades of grey.

 

ASDs are a neurological developmental disorder (or 'condition' if you prefer) and this type of 'treatment' doesn't do anything to address that, as this is akin to making your car go faster by talking to it - you're doing something that has no impact on the underlying 'mechanics'. Yes people with ASDs can learn how to better 'cope' and 'respond' but this doesn't have to be done via 'extreme' programmes such as Son-Rise - CBT would be an alternative that I'd look into before going down that route (depending on the age of the person you're looking at this for obviously).

 

Sorry if that sounds like a very negative view of this and I'm sure that there will be people out there who sing Son-Rise's praises and there will no doubt be numerous examples of it 'working'. For me though it's a massive 'no way'.

 

Edited as I missed a word out

Edited December 16, 2008 by TheNeil

[mossgrove]

Hello and welcome to the forum

 

Son-rise doesn't get a good press here I am afraid as it is based on the false premise that Autism can be cured.

 

I had a galnce at the web site and they appear to have toned down their claims that they can 'cure' Autism since I last visited, but they have never permitted any independent evaluation of the techniques for which they charge phenomenal amounts of money, and their marketing approach relies on the emotional blackmail of parents and anecdotal testimonies. It is a myth that Autistic children do not make huge strides without son-Rise, there are plenty of examples where an appropriate and supportive setting has bought about great changes, so the Son Rise programs reliance on individual testimpnies for it's marketing doesn't 'prove' anything.

 

By all means go ahread if you wish, but bear in mind that the Son Rise program will not change the fact that Autism is a life-long condition and you will require an enourmous commitment of time and money for benefits that have never been scientifically proven to exist, and i cant escape a naggin feeling that they are eploiting anxious and vulnerable parents and making a great deal of money in the process.

 

 

Simon

[bid]

Sorry, I have AS myself as well as an adult son with AS, and I echo TN and Mossgrove

 

There are less intrusive methods of supporting your child, although I'm out of date with names, etc (not ABA!!).

 

Is one method called Floortime?? Or I may be imagining things! I also understand Earlybird and Earlybird Plus are good courses (run by the NAS??).

 

Hopefully someone with more knowledge will be along.

 

Welcome to the forum, BTW, and please don't let our opinions put you off staying around...we are a friendly bunch, honestly!

 

Bid

Edited December 16, 2008 by bid

[Mumble]

I'd say the same as all above too It might make the child/adult 'appear' to be 'cured' or responding appropriately and at one level they are, but the torment that it would cause inside the person is unimaginable. The most I can liken it to is a counsellor I saw who had no understanding of (or no wish to understand) ASDs and insisted I made eye-contact with her. It's possibly difficult for people without such issues to understand, but it was physically painful and I was totally unable to engage with anything being said. Far better in my view to work on skills/ways round situations that work for both of you such as, with eye-contact, looking at the nose or chin or whatever is comfortable. Floor-time that Bib mentions (you can find their website by Googling it) is time intensive but may be worth looking into - one major difference is that it is based on the individual rather than seeking a one size fits all model for cure/intervention.

 

I have to add, I'm glad I'm not a parent on the receiving end of Son-Rise's marketing - they held an info session near me about 4 months ago and I thought well it can't harm just to register an interest (well I was interested - I wanted to know their claims ) - I have since been inundated with emails, more emails, texts, snail mail including DVDs and CD-Roms and much of it would make me feel guilty for not helping my child if I were in that position. What swung it for me that I wanted nothing to do with it - the small print on their flyer:

*Please note that we do not allow any children to be present at our information sessions

 

- says it all really.

 

[baddad]

I'd say the same as all above too It might make the child/adult 'appear' to be 'cured' or responding appropriately and at one level they are, but the torment that it would cause inside the person is unimaginable.

 

 

Hi Angelar/mumble/all -

 

Just wanted to say that while i agree 100% with all of the reservations people have with Son Rise I think there's another angle to the above too...

Some autistic children are capable of (i.e.) making eye contact/responding appropriately etc independently, and also learning these skills with the right sort of encouragement and help - it's not necessarily the case that the child is suffering/in torment, and these are valuable skills if the child can develop them. Son Rise can actually take that positive and turn it into a negative, by taking credit away from the child for achieving those skills and passing it off as some sort of 'cure'. Compounding that, children who cannot respond to the 'cure' appropriately are then judged even more negatively, and possibly held personally responsible for something that is part of their condition and over which they have no control.

The problem with something like Son Rise is that it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy for anything positive that happens with the child but 'blames' any negative on the child or on the parent for not 'doing it properly'... Trying to think of an example: if i sold you some magic beans that would enable your child to read, and after nine months of taking them your child had learned to read that would be evidence that the magic beans were working... any effort put in by you, the parent or by the child to actually teach and learn the skill would be irrelevent in the eyes of (me) the person selling you the beans. On the other hand, if it proved the case that your child couldn't learn to read, i (the person selling you the beans) would say either you weren't putting enough effort into the teaching programme that came with the beans, or that your child wasn't trying hard enough/was just being bl00dy minded. In the face of all other argument i could just say that there was a small percentage of children who didn't respond to the treatment and that your child must fall into that category.

Heads I win, tails you lose. Lubbly Jubbly

[Cat]

 

This is apparently what makes the Son Rise Programme different and my take on it.

 

Joining in a child's repetitive and ritualistic behaviors supplies the key to unlocking the mystery of these behaviors and facilitates eye contact, social development and the inclusion of others in play.

 

I did this with my son before I had even heard of Son Rise. I did this because I hoped that one day he would realise that I was playing alongside of him and he did. I think that this is something that either happens or does not. It is very difficult to gage the level of functioning of a small child or how they are going to progress.

 

Utilizing a child's own motivation advances learning and builds the foundation for education and skill acquisition.

 

Those of us who home ed have found that using the things that the child enjoys most and by joining in with their favourite topics and special interests we can slowly introduce new things without the child even realising that this is happening. So we are in fact building foundations and definitely creating the right environment for the acquisition of skills.

 

Teaching through interactive play results in effective and meaningful socialization and communication.

 

Teaching through interactive play is nothing new and we all do it with our kids every day autistic or not from the day they are born. It might take longer for a child with autism to interact and socalise but many of them do get their eventually. My two did.

 

Using energy, excitement and enthusiasm engages the child and inspires a continuous love of learning and interaction.

 

Again this is something that we have always done with our sons. My hubby often amazed me with his energy, excitement and enthusiasm for engaging with our son. He was doing this long before we realised that our son was autistic. But we continued doing this after the diagnosis.

 

Employing a nonjudgmental and optimistic attitude maximizes the child's enjoyment, attention and desire throughout their Son-Rise Program�.

 

That is why we home ed because we wanted to focus our attention on the positives and not the negatives. We wanted to raise self esteem and self awareness and we wanted our son to know that he was accepted for who he was himself.

 

Placing the parent as the child's most important and lasting resource provides a consistent and compelling focus for training, education and inspiration.

 

This is surely true of all children? Parents should be the most important and lasting resource for all of their kids. We should want to ensure that all of our kids have the right education for them and inspire them to want to learn.

 

Creating a safe, distraction-free work/play area facilitates the optimal environment for learning and growth.

 

Again that is what we do with home ed but it is again something we have always done for all of our sons.

 

When our youngest was diagnosed he was sent to our CDU for an assessment to see where he lay on the spectrum. He attended with a child who at that time was more advanced in many areas than our son. When our son left the CDU we did what quite simply came naturally along with throwing in a bit of this and that that we had picked up from the many books we had read. We decided that ABA was not for us. Our son was a child not a dog and we did not want him training. A few years ago our paths crossed again with the child my son had attended the CDU with at a family day out arranged for children with autism. I was quite literally shocked and more so when I found out that the child had gone from the CDU straight into Son Rise. Our son had by this point meaningful speech and a good understanding of what others are saying to him. This child was still echolalic with little meaningful speech. The child was still being tutored by his one to one who literally followed him everywhere. Our son was playing freely with some of the other children and their brothers and sisters. The other child was screaming and was most distressed by the noise the, activities and the sheer amount of people. Our son was holding his own. This does not prove that Son Rise does not work. But it does prove that many of the positives things that all of these programmes take the credit for happen anyway given time and patience. The thing is we none of us wil never know for sure if these things would have happened anyway without the programme. They did for us but then maybe we were just lucky.

 

My personal take on ABA is that it makes a great deal of money from pretty desperate parents many of whom have not even had the chance to come to terms with their child?s autism. The best advice I was ever given after our youngest was diagnosed was not to panic buy into cures. I am personally pleased that we did not.

 

Cat

 

 

[Elouise]

My personal take on ABA is that it makes a great deal of money from pretty desperate parents many of whom have not even had the chance to come to terms with their child?s autism. The best advice I was ever given after our youngest was diagnosed was not to panic buy into cures. I am personally pleased that we did not.

 

Whole heartedly agree.

[pearl]

Hi & welcome Angelar

Seems like we have pretty much a concensus here. I do know where you are coming from - back in the mid 90's when JP was dx'd I looked very seriously into Son Rise. For me it was a combination of not knowing very much, not realising at that point that autism was for life, and, frankly, the complete lack of any other kind of support. You just desperately want to help your child & they appear to be offering a package which supports the whole family.

 

Luckily I talked to a respected professional about it & he warned me off. But he did agree that, at that time, there was little else on offer.

 

Now my lad is 19 & doing very well, holding down a full time job. The help he received was 1-1 support in school, plus autism specialist speech therapy. Thats all. And as bd says, IF we had done Son Rise we would have attributed his improvement to that, no doubt.

 

I hope you find the support & encouragement you need on here <'>

[Emum]

I know 3 families who are doing the son-rise problem. None of their children are "cured". None of their children have made more progress than my dd, who isn't doing son-rise. All 3 families have spent a lot of money on the programme (many thousands of pounds) and turned their lives upside down. One of the requirements is that a room in the house is set aside solely as a playroom. It can't double as a bedroom or have any other use. One family I know, the ASD child and their sibling have to share a bedroom and the parents sleep on the floor of the living room, as they have only a small 2 bedroom home. Another family had to spend a huge amount adapting their house for the programme. There are so many hidden costs: the cost of the programme is only the tip of the iceberg. Once you have spent thousands on the first course, you need to do more courses, which cost as much, plus pay for their advisers to monitor your programme. You will almost certainly need for one parent to give up work. You need to advertise for volunteers and if you can't find volunteers, pay people to help you with the programme, plus the equipment for the playroom.

[Kathryn]

Hi Angelar, welcome to the forum. All views on various interventions are welcome here, it just happens that there aren't many people on this forum in favour of Sonrise, as you can see. Don't let that put you off staying - you'll get lots of support here whether you go down that route or not.

 

If you type sonrise into the forum search engine (top right) it will bring up previous discussions on this subject. You may find a couple of people who have first hand experience of it.

 

K x

 

 

[tessa protheroe]

HI

I am trying to get in contact with anybody who has every been on the son-rise course, as I am thinking of going down this route but would like to speak to other people first. thanks

 

[tessa protheroe]

We did sonrise with our younger son (hfa) part time for 2 years - went on the startup and did the intensive in the USA. It really improved our understanding and communication and our son enjoyed it (he loved being "in control" in the playroom and was sorry when we stopped). There is no physical coercion - you try to position yourself to get eye contact but do not invade their space. The "joining" is more than just doing what the child does. You back off if the child wants - they are in control. (This made our ds's behaviour a lot less controlling outside the playroom). Yes the door is locked for a session but in other situations (eg school) children are required to stay in a room.

 

We never thought of it as a "cure" but it certainly made our life easier. Yes it was hard work (and I home ed 3 kids, the older ds also has AS) getting and training volunteers. We used our savings to pay for it (couldn't face the fundraising).

 

Don't know if all benefits to our ds are due to SR or would happen anyway. We didn't do it for an "outcome" but to get to know our son better.

 

Would we do it again in hindsight? Yes. But this is me speaking about us as a family - no criticism implied of others who decide not. There are free introductory lectures where you can find out if it is for you or not. Each to their own I say.

[Flibs]

I have never heard of this programme but my initial thoughts where why we want someone want to be "cured" My feelings are that individulas without autism such as parents families proffesionals want to "cure" folk .........they may be perfectly happy and personally I beleive it is society that needs to be "cured" and accept people as they are. That suggests a way of life that is unacceptable to individuals but if it is the way of life they lead and they are happy then why change that ?