First Day Back

[wasuup]

Picking up my 4 year old from school today, I got the dreaded "Can I have a word with you Mrs ........................"

 

My son doesn't like to take his fleece off or coat whichever applies even on a day like this.

He was sweating and clearly overheated so his teacher told him to go and get a drink from the drinking fountain in the toilets.

He did so but could not operate it. Two older boys in year2 offered to help him. They decided to push my sons head into the sink and spray water into his face and splash him with it. As my son had been missing from class a while the teacher went to find my son and witnessed this.

My son was given a cuddle and the boys were made to apologise and then had to see the deputy head. The boys then fibbed about what had happened which made things worse for them and the incidence has been recorded and is being treated seriously.

 

I just feel sad that this has happened for my son. This is in a school where there are no incidences of bullying (according to the Head)-well there is now!

 

Edited April 20, 2009 by wasuup

[frogslegs]

Sorry to hear that this has happened to your son. It sounds like the school dealt with the incident very swiftly by taking the boys to DH. I don't believe there is a single school without an incidence of bullying, simply because it is human nature to pick on weaker people, such as younger children. It is hard on the children who are picked on and on us parents to understand why because we love them so much and it hurts to see them hurting. For my son year 1/2 were the worst. Now he is more in control and has sort of learnt to spot problem people. The message that we tried to hammer into him was that it was not his fault, that he needed to report any incident as soon as it happened (and not wait until the end of the day or even several days after).

Good luck with your boy.

Mel

[wasuup]

Sorry to hear that this has happened to your son. It sounds like the school dealt with the incident very swiftly by taking the boys to DH. I don't believe there is a single school without an incidence of bullying, simply because it is human nature to pick on weaker people, such as younger children. It is hard on the children who are picked on and on us parents to understand why because we love them so much and it hurts to see them hurting. For my son year 1/2 were the worst. Now he is more in control and has sort of learnt to spot problem people. The message that we tried to hammer into him was that it was not his fault, that he needed to report any incident as soon as it happened (and not wait until the end of the day or even several days after).

Good luck with your boy.

Mel

 

Thanks Mel

 

I think his Teacher was really upset by it, she is really good and I think she has a soft spot for my son but this is not the first time. Some older children tried to get my son to go and kick, hit other boys in their boy bits last term.

 

My Head is saying this is all evidence to getting my son more support in school but it still breaks my heart.

 

He doesn't have much understanding off why people act the way they do and is not able to really communicate what has gone on and retell us. The fact that the boys were caught in the act was the only way we would have known or anything would have been done as he would have been unable to recalll the events for himself.

Edited April 20, 2009 by wasuup

[Sally44]

My son also tends to stay fully dressed regardless of the weather. But it does seem to happen at school and as soon as he leaves that environment he begins to be able to recognise body temperature and will start stripping off on the way home. His teacher once took me to one side and said I needed to 'sort this out' as he was sitting sweating all day long. Well that riled me. So I pointed out that his sensory issues mean that in some busy environments, because he is concentrating or focused on one thing or is using one sense at a time, he can lose body sensation - which is true. So I said that although his wearing a jumper on a sunny day might be inappropriate, he cannot feel how hot he is. However, you as his teacher can see that he is sweating, so why don't you sit him at a desk that is not bathed in sunlight making him even hotter, especially as there are already 3 reports that have been sent into school saying that he is sensitive to sunlight. My son also used to wrap himself up to go out into the playground. The AAT said this was a sensory thing to help him 'feel' where he was and also to muffle the outside noise. So even on a hot day he would wear his coat, hood up and fastened tightly and he would pull the velcro tightly around his wrists - and wear gloves if he had them in his pockets. He used to look like he was on an expedition to the Antarctic.

Incidents of bullying, intentional or unintentional need to be reported. I used to hear it via my daughter because my son would not even say anything to anymore. His language difficulties were such that he did not know who to tell, or what to say. I did get called into school one day because my son had scratched another boy. And the school could see no reason why he would have done that. When I spoke to my son it became apparent that this boy had pushed my son over on a number of occasions, and it had simply taken him longer to process what had happened. So he scratched the boy a couple of days later from the event. (Secretly I was so pleased!) So I had a talk with him that scratching was not good, but a good thump was okay. Don't you think it strange how school rank behaviour differently ie. scratching, biting etc is BAD, but thumping, pushing, saying spiteful things is 'normal'. Thankfully, when he gets upset by someone he does get upset, angry and physical, and I have done absolutely nothing about attempting to stop that in school. It is very rare that anything happens, and when it does the other child was asking for it. He doesn't hit out without a reason.

It is the really quiet ones, that have not comprehension of what is going on or how to stop it that concerns me.

At least the teacher is aware of it.

Have you heard of circle of friends? This is a friendship network that can really help because it actively forms a small group of children who will be playing with your son on a regular basis and they will automatically become aware and involved if anything is going on. That might be worth considering. At 4 they might consider he is too young. But you could ask for his social interaction skills to be assessed and for him to be supported in the playground and during dinnertimes.

[Karen A]

Picking up my 4 year old from school today, I got the dreaded "Can I have a word with you Mrs ........................"

 

My son doesn't like to take his fleece off or coat whichever applies even on a day like this.

He was sweating and clearly overheated so his teacher told him to go and get a drink from the drinking fountain in the toilets.

He did so but could not operate it. Two older boys in year2 offered to help him. They decided to push my sons head into the sink and spray water into his face and splash him with it. As my son had been missing from class a while the teacher went to find my son and witnessed this.

My son was given a cuddle and the boys were made to apologise and then had to see the deputy head. The boys then fibbed about what had happened which made things worse for them and the incidence has been recorded and is being treated seriously.

 

I just feel sad that this has happened for my son. This is in a school where there are no incidences of bullying (according to the Head)-well there is now!

 

 

Always be very suspicious of any HT who tells you there are no incidences of bullying in their school.Every school has some bullying.If you are told otherwise people either don't know about it or they are in denial about the issue.Karen.

 

[Karen A]

Thanks Mel

 

I think his Teacher was really upset by it, she is really good and I think she has a soft spot for my son but this is not the first time. Some older children tried to get my son to go and kick, hit other boys in their boy bits last term.

 

My Head is saying this is all evidence to getting my son more support in school but it still breaks my heart.

 

.

If the Head Teacher is saying it is evidence to get your son more support it is worth ensuring it is documented somewhere.Also it would be worth requesting that the incident is documented in the school incident book.There should be one.

It may be worth asking if the school have a behaviour policy and a bullying policy.If you request coppies then you will have them to hand.You may decide that you do not wish to take things further this time.However it is worth having these documents in case there are further incidents.

I will find the ACE information re bullying for you.It is worth following the ACE advice it is very good.

It may well be worth writing to the HT briefly to say that you are aware of the incident yesterday so that you have a written record of evidence submitted yourself.See what the ACE guide reccomends.

I edited to add.The logic behind writing a letter is not so much regarding this incident.It more importantly provides evidence if there are further incidents.You will then be able to demonstrate that there is a pattern rather than having evidence of single incidents.Karen.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Karen A

[Karen A]

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...ng-bullying.htm

This is the ACE information.It explains more clearly than me what you can do.Karen.

[Karen A]

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/12626/76...ti-bullying.pdf

Hi again.This link is for the latest DFES information regarding SEN and bullying.

It might be interesting for you to read.The HT may also be intersted . Karen.

[wasuup]

Thanks for the info Karen!

 

Sally he is the same even at the swimmiming baths when he is watching his older siblings with wearing his coat and not taking it off. I think he does like the weight of it maybe and also does not realize when he is too hot.

 

Regarding the circle of friends-he is supposed to have his own buddy at playtimes according to his IEP but hasn't and is supposed to play games with a few children and a TA once a week such as goose goose duck. The SALT assessed his social interaction skills as delayed and immature. He also used to bring home notes about having banged his head and fallen over but the playground assistants have been told not to bother with the accident book now by school unless there is an obvious mark.

 

[Karen A]

Thanks for the info Karen!

 

Sally he is the same even at the swimmiming baths when he is watching his older siblings with wearing his coat and not taking it off. I think he does like the weight of it maybe and also does not realize when he is too hot.

 

Regarding the circle of friends-he is supposed to have his own buddy at playtimes according to his IEP but hasn't and is supposed to play games with a few children and a TA once a week such as goose goose duck. The SALT assessed his social interaction skills as delayed and immature. He also used to bring home notes about having banged his head and fallen over but the playground assistants have been told not to bother with the accident book now by school unless there is an obvious mark.

 

Hi wasuup.If you decide to request a copy of the school policies it may be woth obtaining the Health and Safety Policy too.

Although playground assisstants need to be able to use some discretion [if they documented every slip they would spend more time in the office than the playground] things like banging a head should be documented and recoreded in the accident book even if there is no obvious mark.Although very unusual it is not unkown for a serious head injury to not show obviuos external trauma but for signs of seious trauma to develop later.

 

Re the buddy system if it is documented in the IEP and is not happening it may be worth raising the issue with the SENCO.I have found it helps keep school on their toes just by being prompt in picking up on things that are not being followed through...if only so that school are aware that you are aware. Karen.

Edited April 21, 2009 by Karen A

[bikemad]

Def be suspicious if a head says theres no bullying.....theres always bullying!!!!!! The head in my lads old school said that yet 2 kids moved cos of being bullied by the same kid n my son went thru 3 years of it before I moved him. You want to put a complaint in writing n send a copy to the board of governors too n when I did it I also spoke to the LEA. <'>

[wasuup]

Hi wasuup.If you decide to request a copy of the school policies it may be woth obtaining the Health and Safety Policy too.

Although playground assisstants need to be able to use some discretion [if they documented every slip they would spend more time in the office than the playground] things like banging a head should be documented and recoreded in the accident book even if there is no obvious mark.Although very unusual it is not unkown for a serious head injury to not show obviuos external trauma but for signs of seious trauma to develop later.

 

Re the buddy system if it is documented in the IEP and is not happening it may be worth raising the issue with the SENCO.I have found it helps keep school on their toes just by being prompt in picking up on things that are not being followed through...if only so that school are aware that you are aware. Karen.

 

 

Will do so Karen. Re the bumps and bangs at school he does this as he has a tendency to walk into people and not see them and also at school even if he falls and bangs himself really hard he doesn't seem to feel the pain of it so the playground staff don't realize when he has really hurt himself.

[wasuup]

Def be suspicious if a head says theres no bullying.....theres always bullying!!!!!! The head in my lads old school said that yet 2 kids moved cos of being bullied by the same kid n my son went thru 3 years of it before I moved him. You want to put a complaint in writing n send a copy to the board of governors too n when I did it I also spoke to the LEA. <'>

 

 

I have my sons name down on the waiting list for a different school. The governers are useless the new SEN governor is our family GP who is not very bright (besides that I'd rather keep school and GP stuff seperate) and the Chair is basically one of the biggest gossips going and the whole town would know our business if I told her what was going on!

 

My daughter has just moved to another school from that one though and like your son doing much better in terms of lowered anxiety levels.

[bikemad]

I have my sons name down on the waiting list for a different school. The governors are useless the new SEN governor is our family GP who is not very bright (besides that I'd rather keep school and GP stuff separate) and the Chair is basically one of the biggest gossips going and the whole town would know our business if I told her what was going on!

 

My daughter has just moved to another school from that one though and like your son doing much better in terms of lowered anxiety levels.

 

O heck sounds even worse than the one I moved ds from!!!! Id bypass the lot n ring the LEA.

[cheryl]

that is so sad,

[Sally44]

Thanks for the info Karen!

 

Sally he is the same even at the swimmiming baths when he is watching his older siblings with wearing his coat and not taking it off. I think he does like the weight of it maybe and also does not realize when he is too hot.

 

Regarding the circle of friends-he is supposed to have his own buddy at playtimes according to his IEP but hasn't and is supposed to play games with a few children and a TA once a week such as goose goose duck. The SALT assessed his social interaction skills as delayed and immature. He also used to bring home notes about having banged his head and fallen over but the playground assistants have been told not to bother with the accident book now by school unless there is an obvious mark.

 

If his IEP says a play buddy, then he has to have one. Mention that to school. If they say he doesn't use the buddy etc then you ask school to ask SALT to look at the situation again. Six months ago, if you had left my son with another child he would have just stood and looked at them eventhough he did want to play with other children he had absolutely no idea about how to do that. Now he has been taught some very basic social skills and is supported in the playground, he is now initiating conversation, joining in and playing games. And I had to fight to get that level of support because they said 'he needs to be allowed to be autistic during free time'. So they thought walking up and down the fence line repeating DVD dialogue was what he wanted to do! He did that, because he didn't know how to do anything else.

The reason that these systems are so important is because our children do not tend to initiate conversation or interaction. So they tend to remain alone, whilst other children pair up or get into groups. Our children become invisible. They need to be specifically taught some social interaction skills eg. how to say hello, how to join in etc. They need a social network building for them. With circle of friends, that leaves around 5 children who can play with the child at any one time. With a buddy system that might mean the same person has to buddy up with him all the time?? And that might not be appropriate - although I recognise that circle of friends might not be appropriate yet - because with COF the group meets to discuss the child they support and usually have an adult help them make decisions etc. So they tend to need to be a bit older. And once they have a social network, if a child bullies the SEN child then the COF will know of the child's difficulties and will be more inclined to intervene on behalf of your child because they have a social relationship with him. If no-one knows him and has nothing to do with him, then when he gets into difficulties the other children are more likely to not get involved or even join in!

[Sally44]

Will do so Karen. Re the bumps and bangs at school he does this as he has a tendency to walk into people and not see them and also at school even if he falls and bangs himself really hard he doesn't seem to feel the pain of it so the playground staff don't realize when he has really hurt himself.

 

Why do you think he is walking into people and generally clumsy? Do you think when he is focused on something he forgets to monitor other incoming sensory stuff eg. appearing deaf - and some children can appear blind or unaware of their surroundings. Or do you suspect visual perceptual problems or depth perception problems. Do you think he has any motor or co-ordination problems? All these things can be looked at by an OT. If he isn't on the waiting list to see one then request that he is through his paediatrician. It might take along time, but if they recognise he has sensory issues then they will be able to look at his classroom environment as well.

 

Appearing not to feel pain is something my son does as well, it is quite typical. But their reaction to pain can be very different ie. having a haircut can be unbearably painful, yet when running around if they fall they appear not to notice the pain. My son injured himself at school. He jumped off something and misjudged the distance (visual problems - we found out he didn't have binocular vision). He damaged his achillies tendon but didn't say anything to anyone all day in school. Afterschool it was the art club, and I stayed with him for that, and again he said nothing - although I noticed he was walking strange. When it was time to go home he was making noises like he was in pain. But I had to ask him 'have you hurt your foot' for him to reply 'yes, I think it's broken'. I had to pull him home on his scooter. We went to the GP in the evening who said he had damaged his achillies tendon and was not to walk on it for 6 weeks. Apparently it is a very painful injury. He said nothing. I had to take him to and from school in a pushchair for 6 weeks. School thought I was 'pre-tending' because my son was showing no signs of pain. So I had to get a letter from the GP and get the OT to speak with school. Just because you son does not tell anyone he feels pain does not mean (a) he doesn't feel pain, or ( even if he doesn't feel it, it doesn't mean it is not a serious injury.

 

 

[Karen A]

Why do you think he is walking into people and generally clumsy? Do you think when he is focused on something he forgets to monitor other incoming sensory stuff eg. appearing deaf - and some children can appear blind or unaware of their surroundings. Or do you suspect visual perceptual problems or depth perception problems. Do you think he has any motor or co-ordination problems? All these things can be looked at by an OT. If he isn't on the waiting list to see one then request that he is through his paediatrician. It might take along time, but if they recognise he has sensory issues then they will be able to look at his classroom environment as well.

 

Appearing not to feel pain is something my son does as well, it is quite typical. But their reaction to pain can be very different ie. having a haircut can be unbearably painful, yet when running around if they fall they appear not to notice the pain. My son injured himself at school. He jumped off something and misjudged the distance (visual problems - we found out he didn't have binocular vision). He damaged his achillies tendon but didn't say anything to anyone all day in school. Afterschool it was the art club, and I stayed with him for that, and again he said nothing - although I noticed he was walking strange. When it was time to go home he was making noises like he was in pain. But I had to ask him 'have you hurt your foot' for him to reply 'yes, I think it's broken'. I had to pull him home on his scooter. We went to the GP in the evening who said he had damaged his achillies tendon and was not to walk on it for 6 weeks. Apparently it is a very painful injury. He said nothing. I had to take him to and from school in a pushchair for 6 weeks. School thought I was 'pre-tending' because my son was showing no signs of pain. So I had to get a letter from the GP and get the OT to speak with school. Just because you son does not tell anyone he feels pain does not mean (a) he doesn't feel pain, or ( even if he doesn't feel it, it doesn't mean it is not a serious injury.

 

Hi.I remembered this thread from a while ago.It is all about different pain perception in children with AS.It is interesting.There is a link on it to another thread on the same topic.The issue crops up fairly often.Karen.

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.ph...;hl=broken+bone

 

[Karen A]

If his IEP says a play buddy, then he has to have one. Mention that to school. If they say he doesn't use the buddy etc then you ask school to ask SALT to look at the situation again. Six months ago, if you had left my son with another child he would have just stood and looked at them eventhough he did want to play with other children he had absolutely no idea about how to do that. Now he has been taught some very basic social skills and is supported in the playground, he is now initiating conversation, joining in and playing games. And I had to fight to get that level of support because they said 'he needs to be allowed to be autistic during free time'. So they thought walking up and down the fence line repeating DVD dialogue was what he wanted to do! He did that, because he didn't know how to do anything else.

The reason that these systems are so important is because our children do not tend to initiate conversation or interaction. So they tend to remain alone, whilst other children pair up or get into groups. Our children become invisible. They need to be specifically taught some social interaction skills eg. how to say hello, how to join in etc. They need a social network building for them. With circle of friends, that leaves around 5 children who can play with the child at any one time. With a buddy system that might mean the same person has to buddy up with him all the time?? And that might not be appropriate - although I recognise that circle of friends might not be appropriate yet - because with COF the group meets to discuss the child they support and usually have an adult help them make decisions etc. So they tend to need to be a bit older. And once they have a social network, if a child bullies the SEN child then the COF will know of the child's difficulties and will be more inclined to intervene on behalf of your child because they have a social relationship with him. If no-one knows him and has nothing to do with him, then when he gets into difficulties the other children are more likely to not get involved or even join in!

 

I think that is a very good point.A buddy system is fine as part of a range of support with active involvement from an adult.But without adult support it is a lot to expect of the children that are buddies.Karen.

 

[wasuup]

that is so sad,

 

It was but my sons mantra is "don't cry be happy" which is positive (he always tells people to make their faces happy if they look sad) and he doesn't really understand why this happened, yet.

 

<'>

 

[wasuup]

If his IEP says a play buddy, then he has to have one. Mention that to school. If they say he doesn't use the buddy etc then you ask school to ask SALT to look at the situation again. Six months ago, if you had left my son with another child he would have just stood and looked at them eventhough he did want to play with other children he had absolutely no idea about how to do that. Now he has been taught some very basic social skills and is supported in the playground, he is now initiating conversation, joining in and playing games. And I had to fight to get that level of support because they said 'he needs to be allowed to be autistic during free time'. So they thought walking up and down the fence line repeating DVD dialogue was what he wanted to do! He did that, because he didn't know how to do anything else.

The reason that these systems are so important is because our children do not tend to initiate conversation or interaction. So they tend to remain alone, whilst other children pair up or get into groups. Our children become invisible. They need to be specifically taught some social interaction skills eg. how to say hello, how to join in etc. They need a social network building for them. With circle of friends, that leaves around 5 children who can play with the child at any one time. With a buddy system that might mean the same person has to buddy up with him all the time?? And that might not be appropriate - although I recognise that circle of friends might not be appropriate yet - because with COF the group meets to discuss the child they support and usually have an adult help them make decisions etc. So they tend to need to be a bit older. And once they have a social network, if a child bullies the SEN child then the COF will know of the child's difficulties and will be more inclined to intervene on behalf of your child because they have a social relationship with him. If no-one knows him and has nothing to do with him, then when he gets into difficulties the other children are more likely to not get involved or even join in!

 

 

Thanks Sally

 

Well I asked him today who his friends were and if he had a buddy and he didn't seem to know. He did say that he had played a game of going under a pole but that his teacher couldn't play because she was too fat.... :whistle:

[wasuup]

Why do you think he is walking into people and generally clumsy? Do you think when he is focused on something he forgets to monitor other incoming sensory stuff eg. appearing deaf - and some children can appear blind or unaware of their surroundings. Or do you suspect visual perceptual problems or depth perception problems. Do you think he has any motor or co-ordination problems? All these things can be looked at by an OT. If he isn't on the waiting list to see one then request that he is through his paediatrician. It might take along time, but if they recognise he has sensory issues then they will be able to look at his classroom environment as well.

 

Appearing not to feel pain is something my son does as well, it is quite typical. But their reaction to pain can be very different ie. having a haircut can be unbearably painful, yet when running around if they fall they appear not to notice the pain. My son injured himself at school. He jumped off something and misjudged the distance (visual problems - we found out he didn't have binocular vision). He damaged his achillies tendon but didn't say anything to anyone all day in school. Afterschool it was the art club, and I stayed with him for that, and again he said nothing - although I noticed he was walking strange. When it was time to go home he was making noises like he was in pain. But I had to ask him 'have you hurt your foot' for him to reply 'yes, I think it's broken'. I had to pull him home on his scooter. We went to the GP in the evening who said he had damaged his achillies tendon and was not to walk on it for 6 weeks. Apparently it is a very painful injury. He said nothing. I had to take him to and from school in a pushchair for 6 weeks. School thought I was 'pre-tending' because my son was showing no signs of pain. So I had to get a letter from the GP and get the OT to speak with school. Just because you son does not tell anyone he feels pain does not mean (a) he doesn't feel pain, or ( even if he doesn't feel it, it doesn't mean it is not a serious injury.

 

 

He has been assessed by the OT but only for what the teacher thought he had difficulties with. He is just over a year behind in his VMI skills and has had exercises and a handwriting program given to the school.