Can this be legal?

[Michele17]

The school sent off requesting an assessment for a statement - it came back on Friday with a big fat refusal from the LEA. I phoned the guy in charge, left a message asking why? he phoned me back today and we had quite a chat. Basically, there is an AS unit being built that would cover this part of my county. It won't be ready until September 2010 and I was told it would have only 2 places for each year group - I make that 10 in total. BUT, they're not going to fill all the places when it opens - only from Year 7 (basically 2 children for the first year) and so on each year until it's full. It will be funded by the LEA so how on earth can this be legal??? How can my son be denied a place (if he gets his statement) because of his DOB?????? It really makes my blood boil! He tried to tell me that it would provide the education needed by the children in the South East part of the county that is lacking at the moment, but TBH how can it if they fill it in this way?

On a positive note he did agree to talk to someone else about the decision to refuse assessment - not holding my breath, but won't be giving up. Parent Partnership are phoning after half term to discuss an appeal.

[Kazzen161]

I am in the north of the County, and that is how the AS unit up here started - Yr 7 only until each year was full, and only two places per year.

 

The LA had my son down to go to it the following Sept, but it had not actually been built by then - it opened the year after that. Just as well I sorted something else out. The LA wanted me to agree to it, even though they did not know how it would work, or what it would be like. Locally I knew 20 children who had been promised a place at the unit (as in "Don't worry about a secondary placement - your child can go to this unit"), even though there were only 2 places available.

 

There is one in the south (west?) of the county and that was run in a different way to the one up here. This one only took children who they knew they could meet the needs of, the other one just took any children the LA told them to.

 

10 places to cover one third of the County is pitiful. Even if your son gets his Statement, there is no guarantee that he would get in to the Unit - they will only take the children with more severe needs - those with less severe needs will have to get by in mainstream schools.

 

I'd be interested to know where the south east one is going to be.

[call me jaded]

Did I get this right? The planned provision isn't an option for for your son, so they turned down the request to assess? You need to put in an appeal

 

You could also get on to your local councillor about the totally inadequate provision.

[Cariad]

Michele we have the same thing happening in Cardiff. At present there are no places for my 13 year old son, he's been out of school for 3 months now.. They are building an Autistic unit on the side of a High school here, only excepting 4 children year 7..

 

My son will be a year 9 in September so he can't go and I think it's disgusting myself but apparently not illegal. I was told by the Children's commissioner for Wales that they are trying to resolve the problem for Autistic children as there are presently no places in Cardiff and the surrounding boroughs.. So they build this "super Autistic centre" and are trying to fill it each year starting from year 7, similar to a high school.

 

 

[Michele17]

Kazzen161 - they're building it at ****** Secondary School in Stubbington. The guy I spoke to in Winchester (don't think I should name him on a public forum, but you probably know who I mean) did explain that's how the other units in Hampshire had started. He seemed quite surprised that I was appalled that all those places are going to be empty for years!

 

call me jaded - I think I haven't explained myself very well - the request to assess wasn't refused because there was no hope of him getting into the unit, but because they felt the school was coping adequately and they couldn't see why a statement was even being considered. Basically the school messed up the paperwork! I am going to appeal - I was very upset when I got the letter and now I just want to get on with it and do battle.

 

I just find it incredibly sad that the LEA think that a probable total of 30 places for the whole of Hampshire (which is a blimming big county) is OK!! And from your replies it isn't unusual elsewhere in the country!!

Edited May 28, 2009 by Kathryn

[Kazzen161]

There's a unit in Romsey, though the places are probably taken.

 

If there are no suitable LA schools for your son, then you will have to look at independent schools - they will love that - lol!

Be very wary if they suggest a BESD school.

[prhancocks]

Hi,

 

We are having problems with Hant's LEA, we have been to tribunal and lost, it took the LEA 2 weeks to get back to us, gloating of course. We have been offered the ******* School, but it's far too big for my son who has sensory issues, but no they know better, being in one classroom or being shipped to a mainstream class, so then when he comes home, we get the brunt of the explosive, because no one (LEA) know about the SCHOOL and HOME parts, being Home the safe haven and school the robot part.

 

 

prhancocks

Edited May 28, 2009 by Kathryn

[Sally44]

Kazzen161 - they're building it at ****** Secondary School in Stubbington. The guy I spoke to in Winchester (don't think I should name him on a public forum, but you probably know who I mean) did explain that's how the other units in Hampshire had started. He seemed quite surprised that I was appalled that all those places are going to be empty for years!

 

call me jaded - I think I haven't explained myself very well - the request to assess wasn't refused because there was no hope of him getting into the unit, but because they felt the school was coping adequately and they couldn't see why a statement was even being considered. Basically the school messed up the paperwork! I am going to appeal - I was very upset when I got the letter and now I just want to get on with it and do battle.

 

I just find it incredibly sad that the LEA think that a probable total of 30 places for the whole of Hampshire (which is a blimming big county) is OK!! And from your replies it isn't unusual elsewhere in the country!!

 

I know exactly how you feel. I had a meeting with our local councils Director of Commissioning. They are also building a new unit. It will hold a total of 5 extra pupils for our LEA. Well excuse me for not doing cartwheels!

There are not enough SEN places in secondary for the SEN children in primary. That isn't including all the other SEN children who had to remain mainstream because there were no places available. What really upset me, was that the Director of Commissioning told me that most parents want their child to be in a mainstream school. Of course there are some that can and do remain mainstream with support. But there are many many children who cannot remain mainstream and LEAs just are not listening.

 

You need the Statement to reflect the level of support in terms of hours, staffing provision and therapies to be accurate. That usually makes it clearer what type of school environment is needed. Getting that evidence in written reports from LEA and NHS staff is not impossible, but it is difficult because they will find it hard to specify levels of support over and above what their department currently can provide. That is because anything required that is in addition to normal funding has to be met by the LEA. When placements are so hard to find and secure, the best you can do is get the Statement as specific as you can and fight for that provision in whichever placement you secure.

 

To: prhancocks: So, if your child cannot access learning in mainstream class environments and needs small group work or a different classroom environment because of sensory issues, then you need that in the Statement. And you need that written evidence for it to be included in the Statement. When it is included in the Statement it then becomes a choice for any LEA to weigh up the cost of providing that level of support in a mainstream school, or whether it is actually a better use of their resources to fund a SEN place, or an independent place. At tribunal they can only go on the written reports supplied. Therefore any additional information you have is useful.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Kathryn

[Karen A]

I know exactly how you feel. I had a meeting with our local councils Director of Commissioning. They are also building a new unit. It will hold a total of 5 extra pupils for our LEA. Well excuse me for not doing cartwheels!

There are not enough SEN places in secondary for the SEN children in primary. That isn't including all the other SEN children who had to remain mainstream because there were no places available. What really upset me, was that the Director of Commissioning told me that most parents want their child to be in a mainstream school. Of course there are some that can and do remain mainstream with support. But there are many many children who cannot remain mainstream and LEAs just are not listening.

 

Afternoon Sally.

I think that whether a parent says they wish their child to remain in mainstream depends on many factors including how and when they are asked.

In primary things may be less complicated.However I think the reality is that in secondary mainstream can only amount to being in a unit attached to a mainstream school with variable amounts of integration or inclusion in a huge mainstream secondary school.Even for the most able teenagers with AS coping in a comprehensive with around 3000 puplis and moving between numerous classrooms with numerous teachers and supply teachers is a big ask.

I am probably as stronger advocate of inclusion as anyone.I have little choice because Ben would not consider the alternatives.However I would far prefer a system of more ASD friendly inclusion than the current one in my area.

I also think just from my time on the Forum that the failure rate for inclusion in mainstream secondary school appears to be extremely high.Hardly a week goes by without someone needing support regading a child who is at risk of exclusion or at risk of mental health problems due to stress.

The parents in both of these cases may well have said at the outset that they would prefer mainstream.However something has obviously gone wrong along the way.Karen.

 

[Kathryn]

Just a reminder:

 

In line with forum policy, please avoid naming schools or identifying individuals. This information should be shared via pm.

 

I've edited a couple of posts which mention specific schools.

 

Thanks

 

Kathryn

[Michele17]

Oops! Sorry - that was me. The LA has agreed to assess my son without me having to go to appeal - I have no idea why, but I'm just very grateful that they have. I think that he has no chance this side of the next millennium of getting into the unit, but if not, then I'll fight for a lot of support in school. There's no way he's going to any of the BESD schools here - I know they're not the place for him. I re-read his diagnosis letter and his psychiatrist actually said he considers my son to be low incidence - don't know if it'll make any difference.

[Kazzen161]

It might. In Hants, ASD can be high (a lot of them around eg: children with moderate learning difficulties) or low incidence (not so many of them around eg: blind or deaf children). How they decide which group any particular child with ASD is put into, no-one can tell me. However, low incidence Statements generally mean the school get some extra money, whereas high incidence ones don't.

 

Don't forget if he has a Statement, then you can ask for independent AS specialist schools or for mainstream schools in neighbouring counties. Do some research.