DoesHeHaveIt Report post Posted May 29, 2009 Please would you let me know what you think about whether my dad might have Aspergers. The following things point to it in my mind: He is very unemotional and seems uncomfortable with people expressing emotion or talking about anything which might involve emotion. My mum tries not to express much in front of him and often when I've been having what I think of as a normal conversation with her she will suddenly look fearful and say "stop talking about it now as your dad is coming". He talks to her so dismissively as though what she has said is utterly stupid or just makes no sense to him and she looks really upset, but he seems to not notice or care what effect it has on her. I've never seen him be affectionate towards her, or anyone. He used to leave for work and give her a hard cold peck on the cheek and she often used to say he had done it roughly. This was all the affection I saw. He didn't cuddle her or touch her at all or say anything sentimental etc. He didn't say anything to any of us to show love or praise and neither did our mum but I get the impression she felt too uncomfortable to do it with him there, although she didn't do it when he wasn't there either. He did express annoyance and irritation so he did feel something. He also likes music and ballet a lot. Do these things point to him NOT having Aspergers? He is highly intelligent and intellectual. He is good at Chemistry, Physics and Maths. He has a very wide vocabulary and some of the time uses words the average person doesn't understand. If we asked him what he meant he said "There is a dictionary in the bookcase". He speaks very properly, always grammatically correct and is very "pedantic" (one of his favourite words) about speaking and writing. He has the attitude that "90% of the population are 'morons'" and doesn't want to be told anything by anyone else because he likes to think he knows everything and knows best all the time. He hates the feeling of not being the one in control. He doesn't do 'small talk' and has admitted to having a difficulty with it. He just doesn't see the point of it. I used to feel hurt that he tried to get off the phone to me as quickly as possible because I didn't really care what we were talking about, I just wanted to feel a connection between us, but this didn't make sense to him. He said phonecalls are simply for "..exchanging useful information" then you put the phone down and save money. He prides himself on being "the master of the 2 minute phone call". He doesn't really see the point of talking unless you are exchanging useful information or talking about something intellectual. Certain things he talks about animatedly and intensely for a long time and he seems to think people will find it as interesting as him but 'normal' people don't find it very interesting and are slightly puzzled as to why he is talking so much about something they think is boring. I spend ages pretending to be interested in what he is saying but I've actually switched off because it doesn't interest me at all. Because I don't really listen I can't really remember what he talks about but it often involves buildings, factories, companies, the history of these things etc. Maybe these things are interesting to some people, maybe it is ME who is boring for not understanding why it is interesting! He gets photos out to show people and often it is pictures of buildings and building sites and I wonder why he has photographed it. He writes memoirs in several ringbound folders and reading them shows you what an amazing memory he has for details. Some details you wonder why he has bothered remembering, for example, he goes on about the make and name of every type of camera film he has ever used. He knows how much everyday things cost decades ago. He remembers the names of almost every child he has ever taught in his career as a teacher and deputy headteacher. His memoirs are full of facts but he does not talk about what feelings he had at different times or describe the atmosphere of places. Something I can't imagine him ever saying would be "I have had a really good day today and I feel great!" There are no exclamations of even the mildest sort of feelings. I remember him once talking about a nature programme on tv and remarking on "what glorious colours these tropical birds have" and it sticks in my mind because it was one of the very few times he said something that seemed to be expressing feeling. Another time I remember he sang one line of a song that came on the radio and I was taken aback because it was so unlike him to do this. He was successful in his career and was a deputy headteacher. Does this point to him NOT having Aspergers? I remember listening to conversations he had on the phone while he was still a deputy head. A teacher had phoned him to say she wasn't feeling very well and wouldn't be coming in the next day. He said something like "Oh dear, I hope you feel better soon". He said the right things but I just didn't get the feeling that he felt anything about what he was saying, it was as though he was reading the 'right' words from a card! At the time - and I hadn't even heard of Aspergers at the time - the thought came to me that it seemed as though he didn't feel what 'normal' people feel but had learnt what normal people would say in common everyday sort of situations and used what he had learnt to get along in the world. On another occassion my dad, my mum and I were watching a carnival procession and we were standing either side of him. Suddenly he put his arms around our shoulders. I felt very uncomfortable because this was not normal behaviour for him and something he had never done before. It felt like he was a bit tense and unnatural doing it and I had the feeling that he had seen someone else doing it so thought he would try doing it too so that he could look 'normal'. When he was a teacher, school children used to do impressions of the way he stood in the playground etc. He used to stand straight with his hands clasped behind his back and rock slowly onto his toes and back onto his heels over and over again. He has to have his lunch at 12.30 and his tea at 5.30 and our mum blithers on in an anxious fashion about making sure it is done. He has to have a certain number of cups of tea. He likes his routines. He doesn't seem comfortable staying for long at events in other people's houses or things organised by other people in general. It seems like he doesn't like not being the one in charge. I had a phase of trying to organise for them to come to events we were doing with my husband's family so that we could get a big family group together. Sometimes I would feel a bit embarrassed by my dad not hiding his lack of enthusiasm for joining in with certain things. One time that sticks in my mind is when the people whose house we were at tried to get everyone involved in a 'charades' type game. He was looking unenthusiastic and someone 'nagged' him to join in and he got quite cross and said in an annoyed voice "I have no interest whatsoever in this" and then went and sat in another room as though he couldn't stand to be anywhere near the game. Sometimes he just falls asleep while sitting in a room with lots of people around him who are expecting everyone to socialise. When I was a child living with my parents some bad things happened to me which I felt scared to talk to them about. They were ongoing things and I was very unhappy and quite withdrawn. I feel sure there must have been signs for a long time that things were wrong, I mean, how well can a child act over all her true feelings all the time? As an adult when I try to hide my feelings my husband always picks up on there being something wrong and makes me tell him what it is and he is not Mr New Man Sensitive type! I feel that my dad should have noticed how unhappy I was and how I reacted to certain people and should have tried to help me. I tried to tell my mum what was happening at the time and she seemed very fearful and annoyed that I had told her and didn't want me to cause a scene. She wanted me to keep quiet because she was extremely uncomfortable with the thought of me expressing the feelings involved in what I was telling her, as though it was really important to keep everything secret. She would not help me. I've confronted them as an adult about the things that happened and what they failed to do as parents. My dad says he simply didn't know about any of it and didn't see any signs to suggest anything was wrong. This is hard to believe UNLESS I consider that he might have Aspergers! This is why it is important to me to find out whether he has it. It might also explain why my mum was so fearful of me and my brother expressing anything, especially anything intense from the bad experiences we went through, because she was scared of how annoyed our dad would be by it. My mum moans about lots of my dad's ways when he is out of earshot but would NEVER say any of it to him. She seems so controlled by him that she won't even talk about certain things in front of him or express many types of feelings in front of him because she is scared it will annoy him. A lot of the time his attitude towards her seems to be of dismissal and contempt. Sadly I feel similarly about her. It would help me to understand just a bit more why our parents were the way they were and why our childhood was the way it was if I felt some confirmation that my dad does have Aspergers. Although it won't make the bad memories feel any better and I still have anger at the unfairness that we went through some bad things that other people didn't, understanding why people were the way they were does seem to make it feel a bit better and make me feel more forgiving towards my parents. So I would be very very grateful if anyone would give me their opinions on all this. I once asked my dad in a tone of voice as though I was half joking, "Do you think you might have Aspergers Syndrome?" It was back when I first heard of it and I haven't thought about it too much again until now. He said "Quite possibly" and then went on to list famous people who had it, as if to make out that it is something that would make him special and eccentric rather than something to be ashamed of. His image is kind of eccentric and aloof and 'intense genius proffessor' like. I do feel that he got it right - that Aspergers is not something to be ashamed of - because it seems that some people are deficient in one part of their brain so that another part of their brain can really excel, right up to genius level in some cases. As though all the power is taken from the deficient area to put it all into the high powered area that excels. It does seem to come with some difficulties for the people around them though! (if this is what he has, going from my experience of having him as a dad). He would never go and seek a diagnosis because he wouldn't want to behave as though he thought there was anything wrong with him. He is very arrogant. When something bad happened in his life (in the family's life) a few years ago I tried to persuade my parents to take up some counselling that we were offered. My dad was completely against it and wouldn't discuss it, with the attitude 'there is nothing wrong with me'. Mind you I refused it as well. It was an extreme and unusual situation which most people would accept that you might benefit from counselling for without making you look like a 'drip' for needing it, but he refused it. I apologise for this being so long. Thank you for reading it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiley1590 Report post Posted May 29, 2009 if he unemotional amaybe he gets embarrassed about struggling to work out what emotion is for which emotion is used in that type situation maybe he gets frustrated and angry with himself! being affectionate is something someone with AS/autism tends to find very difficult to express alot of time! he sounds to have an high IQ level which could mean AS as this yet another common sign! like logial subjects like music,science hates the felling not being in control again a sign of an ASD! he doesn't do 'small talk' another AS sign! as find difficult to social conversations on phone worse due to anxiety and pressure! exchaging useful information is another AS sign talk about what hew wants can seem aloof alot!not talking about something e enjoys turns around and said it boring also AS sign! having amzing memory some people with AS/ASD do have that ability within their heads! liking routine is main AS/ASD sign! That's main part of what we need from life to be! though don't work that way always! same like being in control thing! all signs i have seen in your personal story and experience about the way your dad is is for sure AS or ASD! i have AS myself so do know most signs and he has loads added together he'd have an official diagnosis there positive! they all add into BIGGER picture of him you RIGHT! maybe understanding more information on AS/ASD mya make you get him more from where he coming from and why he does certain things that 'normal' parent wouldnn't dream of doing or saying!behaving towards people he knows and loves oif looked closer probably fits all signs perfectly! take care XKLX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiley1590 Report post Posted May 29, 2009 socialising another hard and difficult task to complete when you may have AS/ASD and social anxiety disorder! he probably finds too stressful confusing and complicated! i can understand why you'd find weird,strange looking into this matter! but many more adults now coming out that they have NOT SEN,LD but in fact the term and condtion is AS/ASD! is becomin more regular gettingofficial assessments and diagnoses made! to find out some 'real' answers truths to who they are and their families!go on NAS website see they can give more information or print off their site on different bits on there resources books , etc may email them ring them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiley1590 Report post Posted May 29, 2009 his image is eccentric years ago that what he been labelled as now a days people who were seen like that are now AS/ASD diagnosis! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 30, 2009 I'm sorry, the feedback you've had so far are perfectly valid as personal opinions but: being affectionate is something someone with AS/autism tends to find very difficult to express alot of time! but is also something huge numbers of non-autistic people struggle with. he sounds to have an high IQ level which could mean AS as this yet another common sign! No it isn't. Part of the AS diagnostic criteria as opposed to an autistic diagnosis is average or above average intelligece, but having a high IQ is not a 'sign' of AS it is a sign of high IQ, and would apply equally to neurotypical people of higher than average intelligence. like logial subjects like music,science hates the felling not being in control again a sign of an ASD! No, signs of someone who likes music and science and likes feeling in control. certainly nothing AS specific there whatsoever. he doesn't do 'small talk' another AS sign! as find difficult to social conversations on phone worse due to anxiety and pressure! exchaging useful information is another AS sign talk about what hew wants can seem aloof alot!not talking about something e enjoys turns around and said it boring also AS sign! having amzing memory some people with AS/ASD do have that ability within their heads! liking routine is main AS/ASD sign! That's main part of what we need from life to be! though don't work that way always! same like being in control thing! None of the above are 'AS signs' they are just personality traits, and any sort of assumption about the reasons why they might apply to your father (or anyone else) is purely speculative... all signs i have seen in your personal story and experience about the way your dad is is for sure AS or ASD! No it isn't. i have AS myself so do know most signs and he has loads added together he'd have an official diagnosis there positive! No he wouldn't None of which is to say that your father isn't or couldn't have asperger's syndrome. I have never met him, so couldn't possibly say. Your own 'assessment' of him is purely subjective, but that's not to say that it's necessarily wrong any more than it is to say it's necessarily right - it's just purely subjective... Is your dad 'disabled' by these aspects of his personality (not by your assessment of his life, but by his)? Is your dad unhappy with his life in any way (not 'do you think he is unhappy or could be 'happier') that has a significant impact on his life? Does your father have concerns about AS? Why are you concerned about AS and what do you think would change if somebody said 'yes he does have AS' or 'no he doesn't have AS'? If you have any concerns about your dad, or issues about your relationship or your mother's relationship with him, the only person who can really reassure you is your dad. There is no one here (or on any other site) who can say 'yes your dad has AS', and if they did in such a casual manner it would be completely inappropriate and wrong. From the information you've posted your dad has some 'traits' associated with AS, but traits are not the same thing as AS and every human being has them to one degree or another. As I've said - I'm not making any judgements about your father in any way, and I'm not saying that he couldn't have AS. I'm just saying that it's a very complex issue and that no one could possibly (or should) make a 'diagnosis' on his behalf other than a trained professional with full access to the 'facts' and your father's cooperation and input. If it's not an issue for him then whether he has AS or not is a moot point, whatever your own (or anyone elses) feelings on the subject. Fundamentally, though, if you find aspects of your father's behaviour personally challenging/difficult (or if your mother does) then you have every right to raise those concerns with your dad and see if some compromises can be made. It's irrelevant whether those things arise from AS or not - the improtant thing is to address the 'problem' not try to put a label on it. Labels don't solve any problems at all; communication and compromises do. Hope that's helpful, and doesn't come across too negatively. It's not meant to be negative, just balanced L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barefoot wend Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Hi I would guess from your last paragraph that having Asperger's is something that your father has considered but decided to ignore or do nothing about for any number of reasons. Maybe he feels his life works for him, maybe he doesn't want a label, maybe he can't see what difference it would make, maybe he has decided that he is not on the spectrum. Whatever his reasons you will have to respect them - it is his life. Perhaps the understanding that you have gained from looking into the possibility will help you with your relationship with him. I hope things go well with you. Barefoot, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted May 30, 2009 What Barefoot says. Theres a couple of members of my family who sound v much like your Dad. Once my son was diagnosed, I started to look at aspects of their behaviour in a new light. It didn't ultimately matter very much whether or not they were AS. What changed was my own response to them, because I chose to believe that some of the things I found challenging about them may have arisen from their being on the spectrum, rather than them being deliberately obtuse/rude. They are the same as they always were - but I feel differently & more at peace with them. Before my son was dx'd, the specialist said, put strategies in place as if he is - if he isn't, you'll have done no harm. I don't want to offend anyone here, so I'll balance that by pointing to their many positive qualities too, which also may be attributed to their being on the spectrum. Just my opinion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) What Barefoot says. Theres a couple of members of my family who sound v much like your Dad. Once my son was diagnosed, I started to look at aspects of their behaviour in a new light. It didn't ultimately matter very much whether or not they were AS. What changed was my own response to them, because I chose to believe that some of the things I found challenging about them may have arisen from their being on the spectrum, rather than them being deliberately obtuse/rude. They are the same as they always were - but I feel differently & more at peace with them. Before my son was dx'd, the specialist said, put strategies in place as if he is - if he isn't, you'll have done no harm. I don't want to offend anyone here, so I'll balance that by pointing to their many positive qualities too, which also may be attributed to their being on the spectrum. Just my opinion Hi pearl - not 'challenging' but i did want to make a point from the comments above: 'Put strategies in place as if he is = no harm done'... 'I started to look at aspects of their behaviour in a new light', 'what changed was my response to them', 'I chose to believe that some of the things i felt challenging about them may have arisen from them being on the spectrum'... I'm really, really sorry - but to me none of those things sound like accepting someone for who they are, because the only reason you have accepted them at face value is because of your belief that they are probably that way because of autism of some sort... If you hadn't made that 'shift' to accommodate them on your terms and allowed yourself the home diagnosis to justify that accommodation on your terms you'd still be making negative judgements about them... Not everyone is 'nice'; and people can be obtuse and rude for a variety of reasons... If you make associations of wilful ignorance (or even unwitting ignorance) and rudeness with autism you are a - making very stereotypical and negative judgements about autistic people, and b - diagnosing (IMO) about 99% of the human population; because I thin everyone is capable of wilful ignorance if you are challenging values that they hold dear. if you tried explaining why God couldn't exist to Mother Theresa i think you'd find even she was more than capable of it! Again, as with the OP; I'm not suggesting your suspicions are ''wrong' or 'right' - I couldn't possibly know - but it's equally possible that they are just human beings with a full range of human idiosyncracies, traits, annoying habits, etc etc etc that all human beings have. If you had a child with down's syndrome, you wouldn't then start looking at the rest of the world in 'a different light' and casually diagnosing people who had some similar traits to your downs syndrome child with 'mild' or undiagnosed downs syndrome. If you knew someone who had schizophrenia you wouldn't look at others who evidenced some similar traits/behaviours and make judgements about their undiagnosed schizophrenia-ness! With the best will in the world, all you are saying in the above is 'I can now accept them for who they are because in my own mind I've made the decision that there is something wrong with the way they function that means they can't help it'. Hope that makes sense, and - as always - no 'challenge' intended... L&P BD Oh PS: Just wanted to add that i saw nothing in the last paragraph indicating in any way that your father might have wondered about AS or considered himself as on the spectrum. It reads to me that he was offered counselling in the wake of some family trauma and said 'no thanks'. Any assumption about the reason why he said 'no thanks' is just that - an assumption. Perhaps he is arrogant (again, I couldn't possibly know because that's a subjective value judgement and i've never met him), and perhaps - as is often the case (but I'm not 'guessing' it may equally NOT be the case for your dad) there are some psychological reasons contributing to that arrogance that are quite fragile. A very good reason for feeling reluctant about couselling, for finding relationships 'challenging', and for behaving in ways that could seem rudely dismissive. Nothing to do with autism or AS at all, but everything to do with the very human Id, Ego and Superego components we all do daily battle with. PPS: Just seen barefoot's post below, and having looked at the second last para it sounds like your dad has a very big image investment in the way that he appears to others. that's actually beconing very common as more speculation occurs surrounding the links between autism and 'genius'.. I've mentioned 'aspirational autism' before - and outside of the Alpha + population anything that explains underachievement, social ineptitude and excuses 'rudeness' while simultaneously implying above average intelligence is going to appeal to huge numbers of the general population. L&P BD Edited May 30, 2009 by baddad Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoesHeHaveIt Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Thank you all for your responses so far. It is true to say that my dad seems happy with his life and is not disabled by his traits because he uses coping strategies that work for him. It is true that him knowing whether he has AS or not would not make much difference to his life and he doesn't feel the need for a label. I am not trying to victimise him in some way. The reason I posted is not because I want him to do anything about the way he is. Neither am I trying to improve our relationship because too much damage has been done. I accept the way our relationship is. The reason I posted is that I want to understand the way he was during my childhood so that I can feel more forgiveness. If he has AS it would explain a lot. If he doesn't it just seems like he didn't feel anything for us, didn't care and couldn't be bothered to notice or do anything about the bad things that were happening to me (and my brother) which there must have been signs of in my behaviour and things I said. Does this make sense to anyone? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Thank you all for your responses so far. It is true to say that my dad seems happy with his life and is not disabled by his traits because he uses coping strategies that work for him. It is true that him knowing whether he has AS or not would not make much difference to his life and he doesn't feel the need for a label. I am not trying to victimise him in some way. The reason I posted is not because I want him to do anything about the way he is. Neither am I trying to improve our relationship because too much damage has been done. I accept the way our relationship is. The reason I posted is that I want to understand the way he was during my childhood so that I can feel more forgiveness. If he has AS it would explain a lot. If he doesn't it just seems like he didn't feel anything for us, didn't care and couldn't be bothered to notice or do anything about the bad things that were happening to me (and my brother) which there must have been signs of in my behaviour and things I said. Does this make sense to anyone? It does make absolute sense, but I think these are things that indicate the possible benefits of counselling for you... We can never understand the motivations or behaviours of others, no matter how we trust or love them. Finding a 'reason' to explain those behaviours can help to bring closure, but ultimately - whatever reasons you can find (real or projected) - it's about coming to terms with what happened and letting it go. Sometimes that means building bridges/sometimes it means burning them. They're decisions that only the individual concerned can make, because they're not decisions for or about your dad but for and about you. Hope that makes sense. L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barefoot wend Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Apologies - second last paragraph. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoesHeHaveIt Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Baddad, I am in therapy yes, and feeling much better about everything. Knowing whether my dad has AS would help a bit as well though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) I once asked my dad in a tone of voice as though I was half joking, "Do you think you might have Aspergers Syndrome?" It was back when I first heard of it and I haven't thought about it too much again until now. He said "Quite possibly" and then went on to list famous people who had it, as if to make out that it is something that would make him special and eccentric rather than something to be ashamed of. His image is kind of eccentric and aloof and 'intense genius proffessor' like. I do feel that he got it right - that Aspergers is not something to be ashamed of - because it seems that some people are deficient in one part of their brain so that another part of their brain can really excel, right up to genius level in some cases. As though all the power is taken from the deficient area to put it all into the high powered area that excels. It does seem to come with some difficulties for the people around them though! (if this is what he has, going from my experience of having him as a dad). I am sorry to read that you have real problems with your relationship with your father, but as someone who does have a dx of AS I do find the comments you express here ill-informed, or maybe just expressed in a clumsy way I'm sure you haven't meant to come across in such a negative way about AS Bid Edited May 30, 2009 by bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Take your point about my post, BD - It's discerning what behaviour might be due to autism (if indeed, they are autistic at all) & what is just that particular person's personality is (and which might clash with ours) is where the difficulty lies. We juggle this all the time with JP. I did try & emphasise the positives as well as the negatives of AS, & hedged what I clearly said was just my opinion throughout with "may", "might" etc. And to be very positive indeed, I wouldn't have the one person I know to be AS in my family - JP - any different. The point I was trying to make (rather badly, obviously) to the OP was, that, AS or NT, the secret to getting along with people is to alter your own response, rather than trying to alter theirs. That doesnt mean not being assertive or discussing the difficulties in a relationship - but ultimately the other person chooses how to respond to that, & theres not a whole lot you can do about it. But you can control how you react. To give an example, I've never got along well with my mother.(she's NT btw). I've felt much more at peace since I accepted that I could respond differently rather than expecting her to change. I don't intend to get into a big debate with you, the sun is shining & I'm off out to enjoy it. Having lived with AS for close on 20 years now & having made some good AS friends, any stereotypical thinking I may have had at the beginning of this journey has long been challenged to the max, & I apologise if it came across that way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barefoot wend Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Please carry on posting there are lots of people here who would like to help. My first post was not very well received but I have learnt so much from this forum. Barefoot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Hi again - Pearl - totally agree about making your own adjustments My mum (also NT) was a lovely old duck in many ways but could be a right pain too. By the time I moved out of home at 18 I just accepted that both sides were part of the whole, and had a great relationship with her. With only one exception (my slightly older sister) every one of her other six kids had regular 'run ins' with her because they all had expectations of her that she couldn't deliver on... Now she's gone, me and that slightly older sister are the only two who have a 'real' memory of mum in our heads - the others have put her on this pedestal that she could never have lived up to while she was alive! The saddest thing of all - without that pedestal and without the expectations that she couldn't meet - me and my sis are the ones with all the memories. Oh - not claiming to be the perfect son or anything. Before I moved out I gave her a hell of a time (as did the other six!)... Hope you made the most of that sunshine. Barefoot - sorry if i gave the wrong impression (? )... as with Pearls post, it wasn't (if you meant me?) that your post was badly received; just that i didn't see the same things in that paragraph that you did... Does he have it - The important thing (IMO) is coming to terms with what was rather than trying to find explanations for why that might have been. There are all sorts of possible reasons why your dad's 'psychology' may have been problematic for you during your childhood. AS could be part of that, but so could a million other things - including historical events in his life (the child is the father of the man etc). I really hope, whatever the underlying reasons, that you can find some 'closure', but i honestly believe that the best way to do that is exploring what you know rather than speculating about what you don't and projecting the responsibility for those childhood events onto something outside of the dynamic. L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Please carry on posting there are lots of people here who would like to help. My first post was not very well received but I have learnt so much from this forum. Barefoot Hi Barefoot Don't know if this is directed at me, either... However, as someone who does have a formal dx of AS I think it is fair for me to say that I do actually find it pretty depressing when I see fairly regular posts from people who are wondering or have even decided that someone they know has AS by linking that 'home dx' to a whole list of negative attributes Like most people, I have had a fair amount of nastiness, unpleasantness and unkindness directed at me through my life...the vast majority of it from people who are presumably NT, and the minority of it from people with ASD. What does this tell me? That these negative traits are part of the human condition, and nothing to do specifically with autism. I would love to read a thread started by a poster saying they know someone who is gentle, passive and anxious to please, with a strong sense of duty who internalises and suppresses their emotions in an attempt to make other people happy, has obsessions and a superior rote memory...could this be because they have AS?? No? Didn't think so... Bid Edited May 30, 2009 by bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
barefoot wend Report post Posted May 30, 2009 (edited) Sorry edited post as everything I write at the moment seems to come out wrong. Edited May 30, 2009 by barefoot wend Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baddad Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Hi again barefoot - i don't think anything you have said specifically has offended anyone(?) Certainly not me, and neither has anyone else in this thread. My original reason for posting was because the first few responses were making some awfully big 'connections' that i thought needed to be counterbalanced, and my subsequent posts from responses to that. Picking up on Bid's point about negative associations: The following is a true story. Only the names have been changed to protect the guilty. Someone I know well has an Autistic son and an NT daughter a couple of years older than the son. Talking to me about the daughter one day, somewhat despairingly as she was going through that difficult 'teen' phase, he said: 'All she ever thinks about is herself. She doesn't do anything for anyone else, and if you ask her she goes off on one. She's selfish, thoughtless, inconsiderate and stubborn and thinks she's never wrong'... Now all of that is perfectly normal teenage stuff and the kind of thing that every parent moans about at some point and with good reason, BUT... at the end of this 'sharing' he added: 'You know, sometimes I think she has autism too'... So that was when I got a bit annoyed, and i asked (we'll call the son 'John', though it isn't his name) 'Hold on: is John "Selfish"?' 'Well, erm... no' 'Oh. Is he "Thoughtless"?' 'Well, no. Not on purpose. He sometimes doesn't know he's being thoughtless but he's never deliberately thoughtless' 'Oh. then is he "Stubborn"?' 'Well no. There are some things he likes done a certain way, but mostly he goes with whatever anyone else wants to do'. 'Inconsiderate?' 'No - he'd go out of his way to help anyone.' 'Thinks he's never wrong?' 'Erm... No...' Now take it from me 'John' is far from perfect and has HUGE social comprehension problems and is just as capable of getting moody/humpy/PO'd as anyone else. But by nature he is none of the things that were being suggested, and certainly his big sis's behaviour at the time was everything her dad was saying it was, so why were those traits - which were not really evident in the autistic child - being touted as 'evidence' of autism by someone close enough to know so much better? The reason? Because they are the stereotypes, and people - even educated people - are naturally inclined to think in stereotypes... The strangest thing of all on this forum (and on others - it's not exclusive to this one by any means) is that it's the people who try to challenge those stereotypes who are invariably accused of being 'dogmatic' or 'opinionated'. Sorry, I'll put my soapbox away now, having (hopefully) made my point. Apologies to the OP for wandering a little , and to reiterate: I really hope, whatever the underlying reasons, that you can find some 'closure', L&P BD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiley1590 Report post Posted May 30, 2009 sorry if upset offended anyone! or put down AS facts wrong sorry once again! take care XKLX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pearl Report post Posted May 30, 2009 Baddad, you are doing it again - quoting from your own posts. That way madness lies, you know ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tally Report post Posted May 31, 2009 Hello, and welcome to the forum. I am an adult with Asperger's. I suspect my dad also has it, though he has not sought a diagnosis. My mum finds it hard to cope with some of his ways, but finds it easier in the light of my own diagnosis, now that she understands the possible roots of my dad's ways. There are many things in your post which point to AS, and none of the things you mention rule it out. It does sound like you are never going to get any definitive answers though. Certainly it seems that there is something about him which has affected his ability to relate to you and give you the support you needed growing up - rather than anything you did wrong. Most people with Asperger's have difficulty verbalising or even identifying emotions. This can make us appear unfeeling, but I can assure you that people with AS do have feelings. Most people with Asperger's do not have any special skills, though some become proficient in a particular area due to an intense interest. It can bring difficulties to the people around them, who have difficulty relating to the person and often misunderstand them, but it also brings many difficulties for the person who has AS. You mention a few things you think he did to appear normal - the telephone conversation with a member of staff and putting his arms around you at the carnival. His motivation might simply have been to appear normal, but it's also possible that he realised these were ways other people used to show they cared. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NobbyNobbs Report post Posted May 31, 2009 i think in order to get things in perspective, you also have to look at what points to him NOT having an ASD, a great big list of negatives isn't going to help anyone. there were a lot of counterpoints in your llist, that would suggest, in generalised terms that he doesn't have an ASD, but i'm not going to go through them because i'm lazy. the father you described is very similar to my grandfather (NT, Alcoholic) and my father (NT, old fashioned). both have reasons for behaving in the ways you've listed, but its not because the have an ASD. if your father is happy in his life, and it doesn't seem to be causing other people distress that is his fault, then its probably best to leave it alone. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Karen A Report post Posted May 31, 2009 if your father is happy in his life, and it doesn't seem to be causing other people distress that is his fault, then its probably best to leave it alone. Hi I agree but would actually take things further.If an adult is happy in his life and is causing other people distress if those people are adults then I think it is still probably best to leave alone.Obviously there is a point when adults need to decide whether an individuals behaviour is causing distress to such an extent that they wish to reduce contact with that individual.However generally whether an individual has ASD,mental health problems,an alcohol problem or is just a difficult personality that individual will not look for solutions to a problem which they do not consider that they have. I hope I do not sound unsupportive.I do understand the situation.I came from a home that was difficult for numerous very complex reasons.My parents are no longer alive now.I am 43.I have only just started to accept after many years and a lot of therapy that my parents did the best they could.I have now spent too much time wishing I could have changed things that I had little control over. My dad died in 1986.That is a lot of years to think about things.My dad might have had AS.However he was never going to obtain an AS diagnosis when he is no longer alive.Wondering about it has not really helped me to come to terms with the things that were difficult. Please do not spend too long wondering about your dad having AS if he is actually alright about himself.It is very possible that he does not want to know. <'> Karen. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
call me jaded Report post Posted May 31, 2009 He is as he is. It's how you deal with how he is that's important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoesHeHaveIt Report post Posted June 2, 2009 Thank you all for continuing to add your thoughts. Thank you Tally for saying a really kind thing - that just because my dad couldn't express his feelings very well doesn't mean that he didn't feel anything, and that maybe when he did things that didn't seem to come naturally to him it doesn't mean that he was being fake, he might have been making an effort to show how he felt in a different way that he wasn't used to. Since I've been an adult I have been able to get along with my dad ok because I feel that I understand him but when I was a child I didn't have the knowledge of people to be able to see beyond how he came across on a surface level - which looked cold and arrogant and dismissive. I don't have any intention to try to change him or make him talk about the possibility of having AS, I just want to find out about it myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DoesHeHaveIt Report post Posted June 2, 2009 I also want to apologise for offending people by not being knowledgeable about AS and for saying things clumsily Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bid Report post Posted June 2, 2009 I also want to apologise for offending people by not being knowledgeable about AS and for saying things clumsily And I need to apologise in case I posted things in a clumsy way back to you, if you see what I mean! I hope you stay around here and maybe find things that will help you feel better about your dad. Bid Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
