Newbie with major probs with asd female teenager

[Pink40lady]

Hi everyone.

Im tearing my hair out with my 13 nearly 14 year old,s manipulative behaviour..Please tell me if any of you experience the following:

Acts completely different outside of our home,almost like a "normal" (i dont like using that term) child,when at home she wont even speak to me unless spoken to,i have to constantly tell her what to do on a daily basis,my life is like the film "Groundhog Day"..her school do not see where im coming from,im almost being made out to be a liar??

[Guest featherways]

Hi Pink40lady, does your daughter have a diagnosis?

From what you write, this could be behaviour typical for someone with an ASD, but it's hard to explain. Let me try..

I can 'seem normal' when in public, because if I don't, I found I was bullied so badly that I was too scared to go outside. I learned that people outside expected me to behave a certain way, or there would be big trouble for me, so I had to put 100% effort into appearing to be calm and coping. But with all the sensory overload, not being able to see the body language, the constant stress of keeping up this false appearance (for my safety) meant that by the time I get home, I am totally utterly exhausted. I sometimes am so very tired that I stop being able to communicate.

 

Why? Because our brains are built and wired differently. We're not designed for social stuff. We're designed for collecting and analysing information. So social stuff uses 'old rusty wiring' in our brains that gets SO overloaded and overheated and eventually switches off so it can cool down.

 

It can look manipulative, but it can be a survival mechanism and something she can't help. I'm not saying it is or isn't, since I don't know her, but that's one explanation?

[Guest featherways]

Oops, my bad - didn't see the heading you put in that says she's ASD. Apologies for re-asking.

[Sally44]

I would say throw assumptions out the window and start at the beginning again.

It maybe that she is putting alot of effort into school and just needs alot of time on her own when she comes home. My own son (age 8) hardly speaks to me at all on coming home. We don't have 'conversations' because they are not of interest to him so therefore he is not motivated if he does not see the point of social chatting. He tells me things that have interested him. He never tells me if things have gone wrong or if he was upset. So it might be worth asking your daughter to make sure there is nothing at school worrying her.

And I think with our children we are always going to be the ones who make the first move from a 'communication' point of view because that is one of their areas of diffiuclty.

Having to tell her what to do could be down to Executive Functions - google them to see if that is relevant. At school her daily structure may be keeping her on track, but at home, without a schedule she might not be able to plan or organise herself. If that is the case then sit down together and draw up a daily timetable for home for the things she needs to do.

Also bear in mind her age. She is a teenager, and some of her behaviours might be just down to that.

But I would try the above, and other things you think of that might be relevant. Talk to your daughter because she is going to be able to give you a better idea of what is behind the difficulties or behaviour. Then go on from there.

 

[Pink40lady]

Hi and thankyou for your replies.

She has a timetable on her bedroom wardrobe,it just doesnt work,the fact that she does put so much effort into school makes more sense to me,i just find it hard to accept that she doesnt want to interact with myself & her siblings.

I have found some useful info on this site already,you see i adopted her when she was 5 & was told there was nothing wrong with her,she was diagnosed at 8 years of age with asd after i insisted that she was not at all functioning properly for her age.

I know from her history that she came from a badly neglected background,she actually had a brain scan at 12 months old for severe lack of development(i only recently discovered this) so after researching some of the links on this site i suspect she has attachment disorder,im awaiting a re referral to camhs & i will present them with my suspicions.

She is quite disruptive when it comes to days out or holidays,i become so stressed that i need another holiday by the time i get back.She has stolen money out of my purse & hurt my adopted baby by standing on her or bumping into her,she has no spacial awareness.Also my hob was left on once & a wooden spoon was producing choking fumes,she was in the kitchen at the time but did not notice,i fear for ours & her safety at times.

I had literally came to the end of my tether 2 weeks ago due to the school head of year tearing strips off me for not allowing her to go on a school trip(because her behaviour at school is excellent).She hadnt even given me the letter about the school trip but told the teacher i wouldnt let her go.

I suppose in all honesty i am finding it so difficult to live with her condition & so are my other children.I am hoping this time the professionals will listen to me.

[baddad]

Hi pinklady (love your apples, by the way!) and welcome to the forum

I'll tell you at the outset that my views on this kind of thing aren't particularly popular, but hopefully you'll find the points i make valid/worth thinking about...

 

As featherways has already highlighted, these are perfectly 'normal' teenage behaviours - so much so, in fact, that the stroppy/rude/thoughtless teenager chipping away at his/her parents has become a staple of TV comedy (Kevin and Perry are the most obvious examples but there are loads more out there)...

 

Obviously I don't know your daughter, or the extent/type of her problems, or anything about how you help her with those problems, but alonside of any of those considerations you should, IMO, be asking yourself if the fact that she has autism in any way precludes her from demonstrating perfectly normal teenage behaviours for the same combination of perfectly normal teenage reasons? Is you daughter so different from other teenagers that it is impossible she could be just going through what other teenagers go through? In addition to that consideration, IMO you should also be asking yourself whether her autism would preclude her from displaying exactly the same controlling, manipulative and inconsiderate behaviours that are again perfectly normal behaviours for a teenager, for exactly the same sorts of reasons that non-autistic teenagers present with these behaviours?

The final question you have to ask (IMO) is whether you feel your daughter is incapable of taking advantage of the situation if you make adaptations for her based purely on the assumption that as an autistic person she cannot 'help' these behaviours or that they are intrinsically different to the behaviours of most teenagers? Certainly most teenagers AS/NT or anywhere inbetween would capitalise on such an adjustment in expectations.

 

Whatever your feeling on those points, and however much you feel it necessary to 'adapt' responses to take into consideration any additional factors that might be appropriate because of her autism, you still also have to consider that these behaviours are inappropriate, and that they will be disabling for her if she practices them in a non-adaptive environment. You may feel that it is an acceptable trade off to support her with those aspects of her behaviour you do assess as arising from her autism; that you bearing the brunt of her frustration/anger is a reasonable adjustment for a caring parent to make. The downside of that, however, is that it establishes a model for her future interactions that others - partners, friends, close work colleagues, flatmates etc - are unlikely to be willing to accommodate. Again 'you always hurt the ones you love' seems pretty much a universal model, and it's perfectly natural (that awful word 'normal') for anyone - AS/NT or anywhere inbetween - to unburden themselves of their stresses and frustrations by projecting them onto others.

 

None of that, of course, is to say that autism couldn't have any part to play in any of this; it's more likely, in fact, that at some level it does. The extent of that 'autistic' influence, though (IMO) is not something that should be assumed, and even if it is - after careful consideration - assessed as being hugely relevent, any responses must - if you want to maximise your daughters opportunities - centre on helping her achieve the goals rather than moving the goalposts.

 

As I say, not the most popular POV on the forum, and regularly misunderstood, but definitely worth taking into consideration.

(IMO!)

 

L&P

 

BD

 

PS: Just read your second post about her early years, and again that adds a huge amount of other considerations into the equation alongside of the question of AS as a 'reason' Obviously any considerations like attachment disorder are (at this stage) speculative, but any child who has spent their formative years in a dysfunctional/possibly abusive (in terms of neglect) environment is going to have a massive range of issues affecting them at such a significant point in their adolescence.

You mention your adopted baby. Do you think she could feel threatened by this 'new addition' to the family. While I'm sure you are doing everything to ensure that she doesn't feel left out/differentiated against these would again be perfectly natural fears for any older sibling, especially if she's 'had you to herself' in the intervening years. I can't begin to imagine how much harder that might be for a child whose formative years had been marked by insecurity/abandonment issues. (Not that I'm making assumptions about that - I genuinely couldn't begin to imagine).

Really hope the professionals can listen/offer some constructive help too. Are there any sort of additional resources you can tap into as an adoptive parent? From everything I've ever seen about the care system/adoption etc 'transitions' seem to be exceptionally hard for the kids concerned. I'd hope, given that reality, there was some sort of advice/crisis support set up, but wouldn't be at all surprised to find out I was wrong

[barefoot wend]

Haven't we been here before?

 

Pinklady

 

There is alot of information on this topic in Tony Atwood's excellent book 'A Guide to Asperger's Syndrome' - it is well worth a read.

 

Barefoot

[Pink40lady]

Thanks Baddad,wow what a long reply

Yes i have considered her behaviour to possibly be down to normal teenage tantrums etc,but as a mother of 6..3 of which are also girls aged 22,20 & 16,i have to say what i experience with "H" is far worse than all 3 of my eldest put together,hence why i do suspect some of it is down to either her asd or her past,she came from what i can only describe as a pretty dismal existence & after reading some of the links today i have discovered that from 0 to 3 years is the time when most of this damage occurred..She was never stimulated or spoken to,one doctor was appalled that at 15 months old she did not know how to smile??Im amazed it took social services 4 further years to remove her from such a damaging environment!

As previously mentioned im a mother of 6,when "H" came to me she was used to "sharing" me,she has never had me to herself as such & i have to say had i known what i know now i would have felt it unfair on her to be adopted into such a large family as she does need more attention than i admittedly can give her,my 2 year old has been with me since birth so again i feel that had this been the reason for her change in behaviour it would have happened before now.

I do talk to her,but she always insists nothing is bothering her,she comes across as almost depressed,she is ultra passive,doesnt sleep well & says someone wakes her up during the night & she cant get back to sleep(a little worrying as i also recently discovered birth mum has multiple personality disorder)

As for adoption support,there answer is always respite,i dont want to palm her off on others,she is my child & my responsibility,i dont think its fair to take her out of her environment that she is accustomed to.I want some help for her to deal with her issues,i want her to be able to look forward to having a future & not have social services thinking a quick fix is to put her somewhere else for the weekend.

[bid]

Welcome to the forum PL

 

I'm another woman with AS. Thinking back to when I was a teenager, at home I certainly withdrew into myself after the super-human effort at school. Even now I tend to do so when I've been at work. It's a very physical thing...when I was a teenager I disappeared into books, now I tend to come on the pootie...and I can actually feel myself mentally and physically unknotting but again I don't want anyone around me much. I was also silent a lot as I simply didn't know what to say!

 

Another thought...your DD obviously has a very complex history. It might be worth considering that in the hierarchy of diagnosis (if I've remembered correctly), autism is considered at the top as it were, presumably because it is a pervasive developmental condition and as such effects everything else.

 

Two possible books that might help, both of which are collections by/about females with autism:

 

Asperger's and Girls, Tony Attwood, Temple Grandin.

 

Women From Another Planet? Our Lives in the Universe of Autism, Jean Kerans Miller.

 

Bid

Edited June 29, 2009 by bid

[baddad]

Hi again

Haven't got much to add to the first post, but just a couple of observations on the new info you've posted.

 

Early years - yes, very much the case that influences in these early days play a huge part in determining the characteristics of the adult. 'Give me a child until the age of seven' etc - and the first three years especially in terms of neurological development. There was an interesting programme on a few weeks ago about children in care and the way that over-consideration of the natural parents wishes frequently has disasterous effects for the children stuck in the middle. How you address that I don't know, and whatever measures are taken are going to be unpopular with someone, but my own feelings are that the needs of the child should be the foremost consideration

That said, though, the behaviours you mention (not smiling, etc) could have been early indicators of autism that were not recognised because of the family background. 'Refrigerator mothers' was a popular misconception surrounding autism for years, and while certainly the background you describe would have exacerbated the problems there's a good chance that the underlying behaviour was neurological/physiological...

I can in one way totally understand how you feel about respite, and I think that's even more complicated in this case because of the family dynamics (Besides, would 'time-out' really make much difference for you if you are dealing with the rest of the family anyway?). That said, though, a 'befriender' or something like that could be a form of respite that would have less of an impact on family dynamics while giving your daughter some new positive options and influences(?) As you've said, not helpful to be moving her from the environment in which she feels most comfortable just for the sake of some 'time out' that neither of you particularly want, but if spending time with someone else can be a social event that's a very different thing.

As far as possible mental health issues (nightime waking - are these visual/auditory hallucinations or more her way of verbalising how she externalises/projects her anxieties onto an imaginary outsider?) I really hope CAMHS can offer some input.

 

L&P

 

BD