Im confused

[hedders]

Just cant work this out, and im not getting any sense or answers from school.

 

Basically in start of yr 2 dd was level 1c for writing, speaking, reading and at the end of yr 2 progressed to 1a, also for maths and science.

 

In yr 3 started again on level 1c by term 3 progressed to level 1a from teacher asessments

 

 

Now i had her stat report her writing is back to level 1c

reading, speaking is recorded as -2c

maths -2c

what is -2c ?

 

 

Reading level is 6yrs 4 months

Comprehension level is 6yr 5 months

 

Desipte ieps intervention programmes for a yr dd is the same level from start of yr 2.

 

Any views welcome????

 

 

 

 

dd is 8.5yrs old

[Sally44]

After 'P' levels the first step on the national curriculum is 1C, which moves to 1B, 1A then 2C etc.

There are also 'typical' levels to achieve for each year ie. by the end of year 2 a child should be around level XXX.

I don't know what -2C is? I would ask them to clarify it.

So if I were you I would want confirmation from the school of the 'typical' level for a child in year 3.

 

Then on top of that is the expected progession in an academic year. So if a child starts on 1C they are expected to improve by one of two increments, which is why they may have put a suggested progression to 1A.

 

Any child that is not making progress, or is assessed lower than previously needs to be looked at by school and they should get advice from outside agencies.

 

When you get into the area of 'reasonable progress' I am not sure exactly how they work that out. But assuming you have a child that has cognitive ability similar to their peers, then you would expect them to make progress like their peers of one or two increments in an academic year. Sometimes those with an ASD can have a learning difficulty, but that doesn't mean a lower cognitive ability, so they should also be expected to improve by 1 or 2 increments. Whilst others may have a lower cognitive ability, but again they should be making progress, but sometimes that might be still within the same increment.

 

IEP targets can be academic or none academic depending on the child's difficulties. If there has been no recorded improvement or progression then it might be worth looking at whether the targets are too low or are not relevant. In my son's previous school they did not set SMART targets and they did not record when he did not reach a target and they did not record when he learnt a target and then forgot it again. I also felt that they set some targets too low just so they could say he had 'achieved' his targets. But the idea is that the targets are going to be stretching them to the next step. Have you involved the Parent Partnership to help you with this?

[hedders]

Thankyou for your reply, and the time spent to answer my thread also with previous thread.

I had parentpartnership on board for 3yrs during my struggle with the primary school refusing to help dd despite advice from outside profressionals, in the nd they said they werent able to do anyhing more to help as we tried so much but the head and senco wouldn,t listen in hte end the profressionals sided with them and blamed me untill i applied for stat asssessment 2 yrs ago which changed there views.

 

 

She was discharged by slt team when she was 5 as she didn,t have any social communication diffculties and her speech and language diffculties were normal for her age so that has taken 3.5yrs for pead to referral her back.

HAD HER NEW IEP TODAY and its detailed on her social communcation diffculties and will start intervention for that in yr4 but the slt team are going to assess her in school they still wont beleive me that dd has pragmatic and segmantic diffculties even though she scored really low and her reading comphersion is at 6yr old.

 

School are very clever at answering or choosing there answers to my questions which is why i dont seem to get anywhere, i know her class peers on level 3/4 my dd is very behind and that she has progressed but not to there expected level.

Edited July 7, 2009 by hedders

[szxmum]

This is how I understand it.

 

As Sally says the assessments start at P Levels then go upwards 1C, 1B, 1A, 2C, 2B, 2A, 3C, 3B, 3A, 4C and so on throughout Key Stage 1, KS2 and KS3.

 

A "typical" child is expected to progress 1-2 sub-levels per year. (Going up, the level is 1, 2, 3, 4; the sub-level is C, B, A). My children's old school used to look for overall "typical" progression of 3 sub-levels every 2 years.

 

I think the thing to look for is over time the levels going up in the way indicated above. If you look at your dd's results, over two years she has gone up 3 sub-levels in reading, speaking and maths. Over two years, writing shows no progress starting at 1C and ending at 1C, indicating that this area needs targetting on her IEP in Year 4.

 

You could make a note to ask for your daughters current sub-levels, say once a term.

 

It may not be helpful to compare your dd's levels to other childrens but to instead concentrate on the fact that progress is being made in reading, speaking and maths and to express your concern that despite being on an IEP, she appears to have made no overall progress in writing in two years and how is the school going to address this in Year 4.

 

HTH,

Szxmum

 

 

Edit - just read your latest post. You could ask for some writing specific targets to be added to her IEP once the SLT have assessed her. Is there any chance they can assess before the end of term?

Edited July 7, 2009 by szxmum

[hedders]

Speaking and listening yr 2 = 1c, 1b predicated level 1a at end of yr

reading yr 2 same as above

Dont know if she achieved 1a but started yr 3 on level 1c

 

 

-2c i found means below expected level for a child on key stage 1 so i need to find out from teacher where dd is below 2c

 

then i can use your stratagy from above, thanks for that.

 

she completed intervention programme for self esteem now will start social skills for basics of speaking and listening

 

she has had 11 months of catch up in literacy and now will start a rapid reading programme

 

also says she is unable to write a simple sentence unaided and they are working towards dd to to be able to do this on iep

has diffculties with spelling and pronouning words and stragies to help with this

 

No point guessing what her progress is i just hope i get the truth.

[Sally44]

I would try to pass the ball back over to school and either the Speech and Language Therapist or the Educational Psychologist.

You say your child still cannot write a simple sentence. You need to ask them why. What are her difficulties. It might be down to a handwriting problem. Or, as you suggest, it could be down to other speech difficulties such as semantics or an auditory processing disorder etc. If you don't have a good understanding of language you are not going to be able to write it down are you?

I would remind them that they discharged her and that she has continued to have these difficulties and has essentially not had any input for the duration of time (3.5 years?) it has taken to be referred to SALT again. Say you are unhappy with that and that you want a full assessment carried out as your daughter is not making progress and therefore the school are not meeting her needs.

I presume that you do not have a formal diagnosis?

[hedders]

NO diagnosis, thanks sally this is really helpful to me. will use your advice in my next step

[hedders]

Boo Hoo

 

 

Spoke to parent partnership about attainment levels reassured me that they never come across a child who hasn't moved up attainment levels and that one being writing 1c is lower than yr 2 of 1b is impossible and said check with the teacher most likely a mis-print.

 

So i did today ...... Boo Hoo

 

Yep she is 1c wont give a reason why she is lower than previous yr.

this -2c trying to fob me off saying the sats only start from 2c so she had to put -2c, when i asked what attainment level she was for reading, speaking and numeracy i was told

 

 

oohh, uummm possibly a 1a

Same predicated level as yr 2 so she hasn,t progressed for 2yrs and in one area gone back.

My gut feeling she isn't a 1a and is lower but the school dont want to print this do they ???

 

What do i do now.

Feels like yea she got an IEP but is anyone actually supporting her and leaving her on her own as none of the IEPs state if she met previous targets.

Edited July 10, 2009 by hedders

[Sally44]

I think all schools assess a child eg. at 1C and then make a 'prediction' of where they would want or expect the child to be by the end of the academic year ie. 1A.

However your post says that she has remained at 1C for a number of academic years. That is not good enough. I suggest you speak with the educational advice helpline at the National Autistic Society or contact IPSEA. Every child is entitled to an education and every child (according to the SEN Code of Practice) is supposed to make a years worth of progression over an academic year. Your child's school does not seem able to demonstrate to you how she is being assessed and what progress she is making and how that is being recorded. If she isn't making progress then they should be getting advice from the Educational Psychologist or the Speech and Language Therapist who should be advising school on how to move forward.

If this current school cannot 'teach' your child then she is not in the right educational environment. I would also speak to the inclusion officer at your local educational authority.

I would send some letters and I would kick up a fuss about this.

I know you said the PP was involved before. But the most basic thing they can and should be doing is making sure that IEPs/MEPs are SMART.

Do you have copies of all the IEPs. When IEPs are reviewed do you go into school? If not make sure you go. Get the PP to accompany you. Try to get someone different than last time. If they again say that they cannot do anything for you ask them to put that in writing to you (and use that as further evidence for a need for an assessment towards a Statement). It is their job to support you and make sure that school are going through the correct process. If they cannot do that then they should not be being paid for their job.

Get in touch with the Autism Outreach Teacher. In our LEA they do not need a diagnosis to get involved. But they do need school to ask them to come in. So speak with the AOT and see if she could come in and see your daughter if she is invited by school. If they say they can, then write into school and ask them to contact the AOT as you are concerned that your daughter has not made any academic progress in ?? years and therefore it is their duty to contact outside professionals to get advice.

At the next IEP/MEP meeting make sure that the school demonstrates whether your child has met the target or not and that they record that on the IEP. If you are not happy with the targets or if you feel she has not met a target then just refuse to sign it until you are happy with it. Or if school seem unable to demonstrate how they will achieve a target then ask them to contact the EP or SALT.

Are you in the process of getting a diagnosis?

Are you in the process of asking for an assessment towards a Statement?

You can use all the information and evidence you have posted to ask the LEA to assess and even to seek a more suitable educational environment for your child (if you have one in mind). Your child is not progressing and it does appear as if no-one is interested in that. By getting things in writing they will have to explain themselves to you by return letter or ignore you. Either way you can use that as evidence. If they just speak to you, follow it up with a letter confirming what was discussed and agreed.

 

[hedders]

I couldn't understand why dd attainment level in writing is now 1c yet a few months ago was a 1a and is recorded in her IEP and the senco even wrote to pead that she was making progress from 1c-1a.

 

I understand now i got the orginal print off from head computer the senco has given false information to the pead in fact it shows dd starting from a 1a and regressing to level 1c in writing which matches her current attainment level of 1c.

 

 

What should i do with this evidence send it to the pead team.???

And the fact it's even gone onto her IEP.

 

WOW I'M GOING TO GET HER INFANT education records from the other school and if there's even more suprises what next??

 

 

[Sally44]

If your child was assessed and had attained a 1a and then regressed to a lower academic level that is evidence of a couple of things. Firstly had she really 'learnt' the skill or was she just repeating what was shown her and they thought that was learnt. Some skills can be rote learnt, but if the skill does not remain, or cannot be demonstrated at a different time or in a different environment then it hasn't been fully learnt, or it hasn't then been generalised into other situations. Generalisation is a skill that many with an ASD struggle with.

I gathered evidence via IEPs that my son was losing skills. For example in reception he learnt 45 flash card words to obtain his first reading book. Over the following two years, as they moved from flashcards to phonics, he gradually forgot those words, until he was last assessed as knowing only 8 high frequency words. This demonstrated that the systems and approaches they were using were not autism friendly and my son - who is a bright boy - could not learn in that educational environment.

Children should not regress with learning.

[chris54]

For example in reception he learnt 45 flash card words to obtain his first reading book. Over the following two years, as they moved from flashcards to phonics, he gradually forgot those words, until he was last assessed as knowing only 8 high frequency words. This demonstrated that the systems and approaches they were using were not autism friendly and my son - who is a bright boy - could not learn in that educational environment.

Children should not regress with learning.

 

I would dispute that Phonics are not autistic friendly. My son was making little progress until they started using phonics at which point he made rapid progress and is now at age appropriate level with reading.

[Sally44]

I was told by the EP and Autism Outreach Teacher that generally children with an ASD do not get phonics. Obviously some can and do learn phonics. It is more typical for a child with Aspergers to understand phonics as they tend to have normal language development, but again it can vary greatly from child to child. But in reception year my son learnt flash cards. Then in year 1 they moved over to phonics as well, and although the advice was that my son probably would not learn that way they persisted anyway, and then refused to admit to themselves that he wasn't learning. I also pointed out to them that they were moving from practising flash cards daily to practising phonics and flashcards once or twice a week. That meant he didn't retain information and he definately was not taught how to generalise learnt informtion into different environments.

Now in his new school they do both flashcards and phonics but they have backed it up with precision teaching and also word networking which is carried out every day. Language is something my son struggles with generally.