"Asperger's sufferer" - Five News, 2nd August 9.55pm

[scaly_piscine]

On a Five News bulletin on 2nd August 9.55pm the phrase "Asperger's sufferer" was casually thrown out there by the newsreader in reference to Gary McKinnon. Whether or not it is accurate in relation to the individual is not important. Phrases like this have implications beyond the individual and are not acceptable in this day and age.

 

I have already complained to Ofcom and have taken the issue higher up. The initial responses were not satisfactory, they concentrate on the technicalities of how he's a sufferer so it's okay and how only the odd individual being offended is fine with them. I suggest as many people on here as possible complain to Ofcom saying you find this phraseology offensive and explain to them that it negatively stigmatises all of us, just as "Asian sufferer", "white sufferer", "black sufferer" etc. would offend whole groups of people because of the generalised implications they undoubtedly have. They have a website form you can use to complain:

 

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/spe.../?itemid=286480

 

You need to enter the program itself manually further down on the form. They will send letter(s) in response.

 

 

Please don't derail this into a Gary McKinnon discussion. The issue here is the lazy, incompetent and damaging media reporting of AS which will continue whilst we allow it to.

[Tally]

I have to say that I find the term "Asperger's Sufferer" fairly inoffensive in the scale of things, and think it's one we probably have to come to terms with hearing. To me it implies that we have a condition which causes us difficulties, which is probably realistic.

 

Exactly why do you find this term so hurtful personally, and what do you think are the wider implications of its use for autistic people generally?

[bid]

Personally I don't like the phrase, especially used about another person. If someone with AS chooses to describe themselves in this way then that's their prerogative.

 

I dislike it when it's used in a generalised, sweeping fashion because I don't think I 'suffer' from anything! I would never say that I 'suffer from feminity'. You 'suffer' from a disease, and for me AS isn't a disease, it's part of what makes me who I am.

 

Bid

[Mumble]

I think it's a tricky one because I don't suffer from autism, but I do suffer sometimes (on a very variable scale) as a result of the difficulties and prejudices I encounter as a result of my autism.

 

[Tempus]

I think it's a tricky one because I don't suffer from autism, but I do suffer sometimes (on a very variable scale) as a result of the difficulties and prejudices I encounter as a result of my autism.

 

I'd agree with this, but I think it's wrong for someone without autism to make that judgement -- even more so for a member of the press to do so, where as a result the term is used in mass media.

[Tally]

I wasn't saying I liked the term. I don't. I just think there are many worse ways the media have represented autism and was surprised by the extremeness of Mr Fish's reaction over a term that I find mildly inappropriate rather than deeply hurtful. The questions I have asked are out of genuine curiosity rather than as a challenge.

[bid]

I wasn't saying I liked the term. I don't. I just think there are many worse ways the media have represented autism and was surprised by the extremeness of Mr Fish's reaction over a term that I find mildly inappropriate rather than deeply hurtful. The questions I have asked are out of genuine curiosity rather than as a challenge.

 

Sorry, Tally, I didn't take it as a 'challenge'??

 

Bid

Edited August 12, 2009 by bid

[baddad]

I don't like the term either, and i don't think it hurts to point it out to the media when they use such phrasing...

Having said that, though, there's something I've found increasingly annoying, which is when new mebers appear on the boards to post links to their petitions, or their own websites or variations thereof without bothering to introduce themselves or contributing in any other way.

No offence intended - just pointing something out, and if i've done you an injustice and it is your intention to use the forum for more than just the promotion of your petition I'll apologise in advance.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Tally]

It wasn't your post in particular I was responding to, Bid. I felt my original post was badly worded. I should just have edited that instead really

[Mumble]

Having said that, though, there's something I've found increasingly annoying, which is when new mebers appear on the boards to post links to their petitions, or their own websites or variations thereof without bothering to introduce themselves or contributing in any other way.

Completely agree with this.

[bid]

Ditto.

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

Yes the use of "Asperger" and "sufferer" in the same sentence is irritating.

 

As for the other issue, yup, it's really good manners to introduce yourself to everyone when you join, and to ask first (via pm to the mods) before posting links to your especial cause/petition/crusade.

 

Doing this means you are less likely to get your thread removed - although that's not guaranteed - some of these mods can be really touchy, especially if the request is not accompanied by the statutory amount of white chocolate.

 

 

K x

[julie1]

my son is getting older now and is starting to understand a little more about himself. When we talked about the phrase aspergers and sufferer, he felt that it fitted how he is feeling some of the time. He said he felt he did suffer from school bullies, and he also suffers because he does not understand quite a lot of things that people say to him. He is fed up with feeling this way and when he is older he wants to help people understand how people with aspergers feel then hopefully no one will have to suffer anymore. Bless him i thought that he was being very grown up right there and then.

[cmuir]

Hi

 

In honesty I can see why someone may in essence use that term (although I do think it's insensitive). My son is 7 and has AS. He is extremely challenging, self harms, tries to harm myself and his dad, does runners, etc etc. Through all of that, I can see what a truly wonderful boy he is - he is an 'enigma' and there's never a dull moment! Somehow through all of the really difficult times, I do find myself laughing about incidents that have happened (usually days/weeks later though!). But, it is truly soul-destroying, for example, watching him sobbing for an hour, refusing to come out of his room, being depressed, etc (things associated with his condition (R may also have a mood disorder) is in my mind a type of suffering. I wonder if that terminology is a rather clumsy and insensitive way of aknowledging the fact that life is challenging and someone with AS can suffer.

 

C

[LordGorse]

I find all this a tad surprising. Surely everyone is aware of the need for understandable, concise phraseology in the media. A news broadcast is hardly the place to get detailed, and a simple phrase that gets a message across (even if it isn't 100% accurate) is always going to be the technique they use. I personally don't get offended by such terms; they're just words. Maybe I don't suffer from Aspergers, but I've certainly suffered because of it, so the phrase is at least to some degree accurate. Anyway, as someone once said, "It isn't words that hurt us, only our reaction to them." Something to that effect anyway There are more important things to get worked up about...

[scaly_piscine]

Just bringing this up to date I received another letter from Ofcom which was much more encouraging. I'm now focusing on other sources who've been using similar phraseology, such as... well... practically everyone I think - BBC, newspapers, even had someone send me a link to a piece that was from an autism site. Part of the problem is people are so used to these phrases that they don't stop to question it. As I say earlier "AS sufferer" implies everyone with AS is a sufferer whether by accident or design. Being a "sufferer" doesn't mean you've suffered from something but could have had plenty of benefit too, it's passing a general negative judgement on a condition.

 

I've a couple of other complaints pending at the moment. The worst one involved the Daily Mail - which likes to put "Asperger's Victim" on their front page headline, will be pretty disgusted if they get away with that.

 

As for me... Well it's not a very private forum. I was originally on Aspie Village before it went poof one night. I'm fairly uninteresting, including my aptitude for word games which has gotten me more than my 15 minutes of fame. I'm usually around somewhere checking up on forums but don't post very often. You can PM me if you're particularly curious as to who I am.

Edited August 14, 2009 by scaly_piscine

[bid]

Nice to meet you, Scaly Piscine

 

Hope you get to look round the forum and join in if you feel like it.

 

Bid

[trekster]

I have to say that I find the term "Asperger's Sufferer" fairly inoffensive in the scale of things, and think it's one we probably have to come to terms with hearing. To me it implies that we have a condition which causes us difficulties, which is probably realistic.

 

Exactly why do you find this term so hurtful personally, and what do you think are the wider implications of its use for autistic people generally?

 

Im with you on this one Tally.

 

[trekster]

I think it's a tricky one because I don't suffer from autism, but I do suffer sometimes (on a very variable scale) as a result of the difficulties and prejudices I encounter as a result of my autism.

 

im with you on this one as well.

 

[trekster]

I don't like the term either, and i don't think it hurts to point it out to the media when they use such phrasing...

Having said that, though, there's something I've found increasingly annoying, which is when new mebers appear on the boards to post links to their petitions, or their own websites or variations thereof without bothering to introduce themselves or contributing in any other way.

No offence intended - just pointing something out, and if i've done you an injustice and it is your intention to use the forum for more than just the promotion of your petition I'll apologise in advance.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

i think the reason for that is they just dont know they need to introduce themselves or they dont see the point in doing so.

Is there a new members forum or introduce yourself section on here? There was one on 2 other sites i joined and so i

immediately posted an personal greeting. When i 1st joined internet lists i had to be reminded a few times before i posted

an introduction as there didnt seem a need to do so at the time.

 

Alexis

[trekster]

Yes the use of "Asperger" and "sufferer" in the same sentence is irritating.

 

As for the other issue, yup, it's really good manners to introduce yourself to everyone when you join, and to ask first (via pm to the mods) before posting links to your especial cause/petition/crusade.

 

Doing this means you are less likely to get your thread removed - although that's not guaranteed - some of these mods can be really touchy, especially if the request is not accompanied by the statutory amount of white chocolate.

 

 

K x

 

Are all members who join this site aware of that rule at the time of joining?

 

[trekster]

Hi

 

In honesty I can see why someone may in essence use that term (although I do think it's insensitive). My son is 7 and has AS. He is extremely challenging, self harms, tries to harm myself and his dad, does runners, etc etc. Through all of that, I can see what a truly wonderful boy he is - he is an 'enigma' and there's never a dull moment! Somehow through all of the really difficult times, I do find myself laughing about incidents that have happened (usually days/weeks later though!). But, it is truly soul-destroying, for example, watching him sobbing for an hour, refusing to come out of his room, being depressed, etc (things associated with his condition (R may also have a mood disorder) is in my mind a type of suffering. I wonder if that terminology is a rather clumsy and insensitive way of aknowledging the fact that life is challenging and someone with AS can suffer.

 

C

 

i guess you have tried standard and non standard treatments for his depression? 5htp worked for me as did going gluten and dairy free. i have been there in fact i had depression from age 10 to only recently. i havent self harmed since feb 2005 and i know how hard the urge is to just give up. Curiosity of whats going to happen next and my nephew keep me going. i tend to get depressed during the summer and around xmas but this is temporary and i hope i am getting better at dealing with it these days.

 

i wish your son and all ACs with associated mental health conditions good luck on their journey of recovery.

 

Personally i think those that dont think aspergers can be suffers are in complete denial of how their autism really affects them. It's not always another persons fault or failing when things go wrong but some aspergers are too in denial to accept this.

 

Alexis

[bid]

Personally i think those that dont think aspergers can be suffers are in complete denial of how their autism really affects them. It's not always another persons fault or failing when things go wrong but some aspergers are too in denial to accept this.

 

Alexis

 

Um, I think I know enough about myself in my 40's to know whether or not I suffer from my AS! I'm certainly not in denial...

 

As I said in my original post, if someone with AS wants to describe themselves as suffering from it, that is their prorogative. What I find uncomfortable is when others describe people with AS as suffering, as a generalised, sweeping statement.

 

BTW, we do have a Meet and Greet section at the top of the main board, where new members generally introduce themselves...not a 'rule' or anything, just friendliness and good manners

 

Bid

Edited August 15, 2009 by bid

[Tally]

i think the reason for that is they just dont know they need to introduce themselves or they dont see the point in doing so.

Is there a new members forum or introduce yourself section on here? There was one on 2 other sites i joined and so i

immediately posted an personal greeting. When i 1st joined internet lists i had to be reminded a few times before i posted

an introduction as there didnt seem a need to do so at the time.

 

Alexis

Alexis,

 

People are talking about people who join the forum and make one post asking people to support their cause without making any effort to become part of the community. When people do this, it looks like they don't really want to know us, just use us to support their cause. This is not really what the forum is for, as we are a community offering mutual support, not a recruitment ground for campaigners.

 

Other new members dive straight into the forum without posting an introduction, but become involved in discussions and you can tell they want to be part of the community. It's not essential to post an introduction, but it's nice to get the chance to get to know people - whether from their introduction or from their posts.

[Sally44]

I must admit, that although I am not on the spectrum, I did not introduce myself in the 'meet and greet' section. I don't see the point of them and definately would not have understood that I should go via that route as a way of joining. I know that sounds a bit ASD in itself, and I can imagine that it just may not occur to some on the spectrum to use that way of introducing themselves because that is part of the difficulties they have. Therefore they may unintentionally appear to just jump in on the forums - just like I did.

I get BDs point about joining petitions etc. But again the person involved may just need telling that they should introduce themselves first and join the community.

Regarding 'Aspergers Sufferer'. I don't like the headline, but I wouldn't complain about it. Therefore those that are offended are left to do that complaining. Someone with an ASD can 'suffer' at one time and 'enjoy' at another etc. No-one with any condition is usually in a permanent emotional state. We all have good and bad days.

[Kathryn]

Are all members who join this site aware of that rule at the time of joining?

 

I was, of course, joking about the chocolate.

 

As others have said, introducing yourself is not exactly a rule, just one way of being friendly and signalling that you want to be part of the community, but there are other ways of doing this. I don't think there should be a rule about it.

 

However, posting a petition/link etc. in your very first post without saying hello comes across as a bit pushy and impolite and people are less likely to respond, it, so the petitioner is doing themself no favours. It's not just me saying so. There have been a number of complaints from others about the increasing number of first posts which are petitions or links and nothing more. Some of the people complaining have AS themselves, I have to add. Maybe there should be an explicit rule about this?

 

K x

 

 

 

 

[trekster]

Um, I think I know enough about myself in my 40's to know whether or not I suffer from my AS! I'm certainly not in denial...

 

As I said in my original post, if someone with AS wants to describe themselves as suffering from it, that is their prorogative. What I find uncomfortable is when others describe people with AS as suffering, as a generalised, sweeping statement.

 

BTW, we do have a Meet and Greet section at the top of the main board, where new members generally introduce themselves...not a 'rule' or anything, just friendliness and good manners

 

Bid

 

Read the post again please, it says "those who dont think aspergers can be suffers" are in denial ie those who are closed to the idea that it is a possibility for some.

 

i prefer not to be accused of having bad manners or not being friendly and i resent that implication. It wasnt clear what it meant by "just arrived" if it had mentioned the term "new member" i would have immediately known to post there.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

Alexis,

 

People are talking about people who join the forum and make one post asking people to support their cause without making any effort to become part of the community. When people do this, it looks like they don't really want to know us, just use us to support their cause. This is not really what the forum is for, as we are a community offering mutual support, not a recruitment ground for campaigners.

 

Other new members dive straight into the forum without posting an introduction, but become involved in discussions and you can tell they want to be part of the community. It's not essential to post an introduction, but it's nice to get the chance to get to know people - whether from their introduction or from their posts.

 

Ah in that case i entirely agree with you, those folk should be redirected to a political/campaigning type of site.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

I was, of course, joking about the chocolate.

 

Didnt see any lol or joke or anything to indicate that was the case so it wasnt obvious.

As others have said, introducing yourself is not exactly a rule, just one way of being friendly and signalling that you want to be part of the community, but there are other ways of doing this. I don't think there should be a rule about it.

 

However, posting a petition/link etc. in your very first post without saying hello comes across as a bit pushy and impolite and people are less likely to respond, it, so the petitioner is doing themself no favours. It's not just me saying so. There have been a number of complaints from others about the increasing number of first posts which are petitions or links and nothing more. Some of the people complaining have AS themselves, I have to add. Maybe there should be an explicit rule about this?

 

K x

 

Good idea something to consider "please note this is not a site for political campaigning and members who use it for this sole purpose will be asked to leave".

 

[Mumble]

As others have said, introducing yourself is not exactly a rule, just one way of being friendly and signalling that you want to be part of the community, but there are other ways of doing this. I don't think there should be a rule about it.

 

However, posting a petition/link etc. in your very first post without saying hello comes across as a bit pushy and impolite and people are less likely to respond, it, so the petitioner is doing themself no favours. It's not just me saying so. There have been a number of complaints from others about the increasing number of first posts which are petitions or links and nothing more. Some of the people complaining have AS themselves, I have to add. Maybe there should be an explicit rule about this?

I don't like members that 'appear' just to gather support for their cause. They (as in the posts containing the causes, not the members) have the potential to make me feel like there is a singular AS/ASD way of being and by having this diagnosis we should all feel the same/believe in the same causes. We don't, and I very much value my individuality. I never click on any on the links as I don't know their origins so the posters don't get any support anyway.

 

There's something rather ironic in a campaign aimed at telling the media to stop using one set of terminology/way of talking about ASD individuals that in and of itself assumes that solely because of our dx we will agree, i.e. that there is an agreed ASD belief.

 

Perhaps a simple rule would be: "All links to petitions to be agreed by a moderator prior to posting"? - or would this create too much work for the mods?

 

As to posting introductions, well I've had many thoughts on this, but I'm not sure they will be popular. I joined when we had the one pinned 'introductions' thread and no 'meet & greet' sub-forum. Of course there were far less members and member applications (many people seem to drift now rather than stay long-term) then. The introductions thread was an easy way to make a first post (look how far I've come since - all those wasted hours ) at a time when I was scared, unsure of what I was doing, had just been dx'ed and needed to reach out to people who might have a clue how I was feeling. It was also easy to keep track of who new members were and to say 'hello' to a group of new members. I think if I had joined with the 'meet & greet' sub-forum, I would have felt far more conscientious about starting a new thread than just posting on one started for the specific purpose of introductions.

 

I rarely read the 'meet & greet' sub-forum I must admit because addressing someone new who doesn't know my slightly odd style gives me concern that I might offend them when they've only just started. If I were addressing several in an intro thread (why offend one when you can offend many ) it would be easier.

 

I understand why we had the change and I also fully accept that part of me not liking it is simply not liking change. I don't think there should be a rule as such to introduce yourself but sometimes it is helpful to know who you are addressing - if they don't tell you how old their kids are (baby/child/teenager/adult) and then get stroppy if the advice doesn't fit, that's a bit unfair, if you don't know if they have a dx (don't start the 'well everyone should be treated the same...') you can't offer tailored advice on services (some of which will require a formal dx) etc.

 

Anyway, here's my solution: an archived and current introductions sub-forum. So, just as the old introductions thread is closed and pinned, have a series of these covering an appropriate time-frame. This way it would also be easy to find a member's intro post as their side profile states the date they joined, so if they joined in April 2008, you would simply scroll through the Introduction archive for that date. Maybe two a year would work (and call the one being used current, with a mod giving it a dated title when it is closed and archived)?

 

Introductions - Current - Please introduce yourself and tell us about yourself here

Introductions - January 2009 - June 2009

Introductions - July 2008 - December 2008

Introductions - January 2008 - June 2008

Introductions - Forum beginning - December 2007

 

Or something like that...

 

[Mumble]

i prefer not to be accused of having bad manners or not being friendly and i resent that implication. It wasnt clear what it meant by "just arrived" if it had mentioned the term "new member" i would have immediately known to post there.

I think it is very clear. Even if you didn't understand it and went to the (now closed) introductions thread to try and introduce yourself you would see the last message:

 

This thread is now closed but will remain pinned and visible as there's a lot of history in its 47 pages - it's where some of us made our very first post..

 

From now on, if you're new, you get a whole thread to yourself to say hello (to start a thread, click on "new topic" button at top right hand side of board).

 

Kathryn

 

on behalf of moderating team

I think that is clear. Certainly in the 18 months it's been there I don't think anyone has started a thread saying they didn't know what it was or couldn't find it.

 

Re the chocolate - now I am very literal in my understanding of language, but the original message did have an indication of being a 'joke' through the use of smilies, as I have quoted below. If you take some time to get to know us and our individual personalities, you will understand how we indicate jokes and humour to each other. You must remember that this is not exclusively an ASD member forum - in fact the majority of members are parents (some with, many without a dx) - and that is something I like about this forum. It does mean things like humour will not always be that obvious. It is better however just to ask (either politely in the post or politely by PM).

some of these mods can be really touchy, especially if the request is not accompanied by the statutory amount of white chocolate.

 

 

K x

 

 

Read the post again please, it says "those who dont think aspergers can be suffers" are in denial ie those who are closed to the idea that it is a possibility for some.

Your original post stated:

 

Personally i think those that dont think aspergers can be suffers are in complete denial of how their autism really affects them.

 

A 'possibility for some' and complete self-denial are entirely different things. I didn't read Bid's post as saying no-one suffers (in fact I think she was actively saying it was up to individuals to decide on their believes - prerogative means choice).

 

[bid]

Personally i think those that dont think aspergers can be suffers are in complete denial of how their autism really affects them. It's not always another persons fault or failing when things go wrong but some aspergers are too in denial to accept this.

 

Alexis

 

Hi Alexis

 

I took the highlighted comment to mean that you think some people with AS are 'in denial' that they 'suffer' from AS, which is what I was disagreeing with.

 

Apologies if I misunderstood your comment.

 

Bid

[Kathryn]

Hi Alexis,

 

You already did introduce yourself, your first post was in Meet and Greet on 3rd August. But even if you hadn't, it wouldn't have mattered, so please don't worry about it. None of my comments about manners were directed at you personally, although you seem to have taken them that way. I was trying to make light of the subject to avoid coming across as "preachy" but I'm sorry if my humour didn't have the effect I intended. Humour is very personal and I try to use various smilies so people understand when I'm joking but misunderstandings are still bound to happen sometimes when people don't know each other well - face to face, let alone in print! So I'm sorry for any offence caused to you personally.

 

Mumble - thanks for your comments and suggestions about introductions, we can maybe discuss this again when mossgrove gets back, and see if people feel there is any need for a change.

 

K x

 

 

 

 

[trekster]

I understand why we had the change and I also fully accept that part of me not liking it is simply not liking change. I don't think there should be a rule as such to introduce yourself but sometimes it is helpful to know who you are addressing - if they don't tell you how old their kids are (baby/child/teenager/adult) and then get stroppy if the advice doesn't fit, that's a bit unfair, if you don't know if they have a dx (don't start the 'well everyone should be treated the same...') you can't offer tailored advice on services (some of which will require a formal dx) etc.

 

Alexis' comments

It wasnt the issue of not liking change though, it was the fact it wasnt literal. All the other forums are literal eg behaviour, family, education are all clear to me as they say exactly whats on the tin. if there isnt a rule to introduce myself then generally i dont introduce myself since its hard to do this without giving the wrong impression. i do treat everyone as my equal and i dont have an issue with that. i do also make reasonable adjustments based on disability and autism diagnosed or not happens to be one of those cases.

Anyway, here's my solution: an archived and current introductions sub-forum. So, just as the old introductions thread is closed and pinned, have a series of these covering an appropriate time-frame. This way it would also be easy to find a member's intro post as their side profile states the date they joined, so if they joined in April 2008, you would simply scroll through the Introduction archive for that date. Maybe two a year would work (and call the one being used current, with a mod giving it a dated title when it is closed and archived)?

 

Sounds good and the "please introduce yourself and tell us about yourself here" is a good idea. We have a "rants and raves" thread for bad autistic days, provided we dont rant at or about people on that list it is permitted.

 

Introductions - Current - Please introduce yourself and tell us about yourself here

Introductions - January 2009 - June 2009

Introductions - July 2008 - December 2008

Introductions - January 2008 - June 2008

Introductions - Forum beginning - December 2007

 

Or something like that... unsure.gif wacko.gif

 

[trekster]

I must admit, that although I am not on the spectrum, I did not introduce myself in the 'meet and greet' section. I don't see the point of them and definately would not have understood that I should go via that route as a way of joining. I know that sounds a bit ASD in itself, and I can imagine that it just may not occur to some on the spectrum to use that way of introducing themselves because that is part of the difficulties they have. Therefore they may unintentionally appear to just jump in on the forums - just like I did.

I get BDs point about joining petitions etc. But again the person involved may just need telling that they should introduce themselves first and join the community.

Regarding 'Aspergers Sufferer'. I don't like the headline, but I wouldn't complain about it. Therefore those that are offended are left to do that complaining. Someone with an ASD can 'suffer' at one time and 'enjoy' at another etc. No-one with any condition is usually in a permanent emotional state. We all have good and bad days.

 

That was my point as well, thanks for putting it more clearly as i did.

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

I think it is very clear. Even if you didn't understand it and went to the (now closed) introductions thread to try and introduce yourself you would see the last message:

 

I think that is clear. Certainly in the 18 months it's been there I don't think anyone has started a thread saying they didn't know what it was or couldn't find it.

 

Just because it has never happened before doesnt mean its very clear. Also why would i go to a forum if i didnt know it existed? i dont check all the forums to find out what they do. It might be clear to you (or others just didnt say what they thought like i do) but it doesnt mean it cannot be taken literally by someone else.

Re the chocolate - now I am very literal in my understanding of language, but the original message did have an indication of being a 'joke' through the use of smilies, as I have quoted below. If you take some time to get to know us and our individual personalities, you will understand how we indicate jokes and humour to each other.

 

How much time will it take to get to know you folk? i have taken some time but sometimes my brain fog means i dont recognise someones post even with their avartar next to their name.

You must remember that this is not exclusively an ASD member forum - in fact the majority of members are parents (some with, many without a dx) - and that is something I like about this forum. It does mean things like humour will not always be that obvious. It is better however just to ask (either politely in the post or politely by PM).

 

i havent heard of any other smilies being used to indicate jokes. As for the asking if it is a joke that isnt easy if it has offended someone.

 

Your original post stated:

A 'possibility for some' and complete self-denial are entirely different things. I didn't read Bid's post as saying no-one suffers (in fact I think she was actively saying it was up to individuals to decide on their believes - prerogative means choice).

 

i dont think that was my individual post? Unless i have answered someone elses post?

 

Alexis

 

[trekster]

Hi Alexis

 

I took the highlighted comment to mean that you think some people with AS are 'in denial' that they 'suffer' from AS, which is what I was disagreeing with.

 

Apologies if I misunderstood your comment.

 

Bid

 

Thats cool its just they deny that their behaviour can and how it affects other people. To them other people have the problem not them. They wont accept any help whatsoever and think people have to change for them.

 

During my meltdown/rage moments i am like this but i try to emulate others social skills or daydream to cope with my AS.

 

Alexis

 

[BillyX]

I find all this a tad surprising. Surely everyone is aware of the need for understandable, concise phraseology in the media.

 

 

Just what I thought Lord, your honour. I have asked several times, "how would you describe .... them/us... " but never got a defintive answer.

 

As far as I am concerend anyway, as many people as I know that are AS suffer in one way or another. The term was used to draw to attention to the fact that it is "THE" Gary Mckinnon, so to mention that he suffers with Aspergers is key to bringing recognition to the audience.It did have to brought to the fore also because it is his only defence, his whole case for leniency rests on the fact that he has Aspergers. Just as Gorsey said, it has to be snappy, its the headline so no time for rambling.

 

And of course the key to all this may be that he suffers with Aspergers and not From Aspergers.

Edited August 31, 2009 by BillyX

[trekster]

Agreed Billy X.

 

At the moment i am suffering with my asperger syndrome. A few months later i could be any other aspie getting on with life.

 

Alexis

[Sally44]

Whether someone 'suffers' due to their diagnosis or not is a very personal thing. And you might consider that someone at the lower functioning end of the spectrum is 'suffering' more, but someone who is high functioning might be 'suffering' to the same extent because they are trying to function at the same level and within the same timeframe as everyone else around them.

As a parent I can only go on how my two children are. One is NT the other ASD. And I can honestly say that both of them have times when they 'suffer' because of ASD whether they are diagnosed or not. As a sibling myself of an older sister with a learning disability and undiagnosed speech disorder and possible ASD, I can honestly say that at times I did 'suffer' because of how people reacted to me and my sister. And in some instances I may have 'suffered' more because I had the full understanding of what was going on, whereas my sister didn't.

And at times when my son is having a meltdown over something I can see that he is suffering. And at other times when my daughter is accusing me of treating her brother differently I can see that she is suffering.

I also think that I am very fortunate that I lived and worked abroad for a number of years. When I first moved I did not know the language, but did eventually pick it up. So I have lived for a long period of time as a 'foreigner' with little or no understanding of the language and I can easily see how someone with an ASD and the language and communication difficulties associated with it will have very real problems even in their own country with their own language.

And with a different culture, language etc most things are not 'obvious' at all. They are learnt skills to any foreigner, and as someone said 'those with an ASD are a foreigner in any language or culture' - by that I think they meant that what is obvious to the NT population is not always obvious to them and is not an easily acquired skill, but something that has to be learnt and practised and which may never become an automatic response but rather a learnt process.

I don't like any media headline that jumps to the conclusion of 'sufferer', but as a general rule it must be 'harder' for someone with an ASD. For example I have auditory processing disorder and in certain environments it is 'harder' or 'impossible' for me to hear or hold a conversation with anyone.

But I also think that to 'suffer' you also need an insight into your difficulties or to feel anger and frustration at not being understood etc. I think that at some time everyone, NT or ASD can feel like that. But someone with an ASD must be feeling that more often and to a greater extent. If that was not the case then surely there wouldn't be the associated anxiety/stress problems that those with an ASD also have. I don't think that is necessarily just down to their diagnosis, I think it is a by product of their daily existence and the amount of effort they have to put in to simply get through the day.