School changing queues

[bettyhen]

My son who is 6 and in Y1 was badly shaken at the end of the last half term because they changed the lines for coming into school to houses instead of year groups. He had to be dragged in twice and would not get into the correct line even though the other children were being kind and beckoning him etc.

 

He was sick at the beginning of term but worried about the queues and saying he was 'confused'. We went back today and he couldn't cope. His teacher was there because she was sending the children in but she couldn't get him to join the correct group and she got a Y6 boy to lead him in which my son didn't like. He kept crying angrily and calling for his mummy.

 

I stopped to talk to the teacher at the end of the day and she wasn't very helpful saying he'd been silly today and it was clear that he needed to be back at school (implying something - I don't know what!). It turns out that his being silly was him crying at not winning in a PE activity - he finds losing very hard and it's very annoying but is just the way he is - he can't understand what's wrong with being upset! Apparently the reception children were comforting him. He was also very uncertain and questioning all the time about whether he was doing the right thing - this has always been an issue and I'm sure it's exacerbated by having been on holiday.

 

I imagine going in will be a nightmare tomorrow and I don't think they have planned for his ASD with regard to the queueing change. However, if I'm not careful I'll be the one demanding everything to be sorted out just for my child. (They are going in in houses so that the cloakroom isn't a nightmare).

 

Comments and advice would be very much appreciated. I'm really upset about this and frustrated.

[KezT]

we had queueing as a specific goal on ds's first IEP - with ideas of how to get him to manage it.*

 

My only suggestion is to see the SENCO (or whichever teacher understands best) and try to work out an individual plan for him.

 

* techniques included practising on his own, social stories, putting a chalk mark on the playground where he should stand, giving him two "buddies" , one which he always stood behind & one in front....... Not totally sure which ones worked, but it took a year before he finally grasped the concept

[NickyB]

Hi bettyhen

 

My DS had exactly the same problem. I had a chat with the SENCO and teacher and it was agreed that I would take him in a bit earlier so as to avoid the whole playground/lining up thing, and I stayed with him until everyone else came in. Now we've changed it to going in a bit later (5 mins) for other reasons, so they are being really flexible, which is great. They also take him in earlier after breaktime. As the head teacher said to me 'There is no point in setting him up to fail before he's even got into school'.

If your son has a diagnosis and is on School Action/Plus then they are required to make 'reasonable adjustments' to accommodate his condition. I really don't think it's unreasonable for them to make adjustments that will help everyone - not just your son, but themselves as well.

 

Hope you get it sorted out.

 

Nicky x

 

[Mumble]

I agree with what others have said with the queueing - he needs support and strategies to help him cope. Ideally these should have been in place before the change. I think it's a case of something that's very difficult for some people to understand because it does seem odd, but the teacher needs to be professional and seek support to help her support and understand your child.

 

I have to say, the other children sound fantastic with your son, which is great to hear.

 

he finds losing very hard and it's very annoying but is just the way he is - he can't understand what's wrong with being upset! Apparently the reception children were comforting him. He was also very uncertain and questioning all the time about whether he was doing the right thing

These two issues really stuck me. I had issues with losing at school and am still very much a perfectionist so although the competition is now internal in that I always think I can do better it means I put myself under extraordinary pressure and at points that boils over and I can't cope any more. I wish I had had help to address this when I was younger and that I was able to develop a more balanced opinion of myself rather than my 'not good enough' stance. The uncertainty and questioning is still a huge feature of my life - I'm so worried about the consequences of doing something wrong and yet they are often such minor things I realise that afterwards most people probably wouldn't even notice, but that doesn't mean that at the time, I'm not overwhelmed with anxiety, and I think that it is anxiety that underlies this. It's even harder when you can't easily read people's expressions or tend to over-simplify to misunderstand which in itself is a source of anxiety. When you don't get the nuances of people's reactions, much more can be interpreted (for instance) as someone being cross with you when their reaction may not have been this at all.

[Sally44]

Going into school by year groups was what he understood and which was predictable for him.

Does he even 'underland' about House Groups. Does he know which is his house group and which other children are in it? Has anyone sat down with him and explained it and showed him and reassured him.

The fact that he continually asks for reassurance in many situations means that 'it isn't obvious to him', that is why he keeps asking.

Maybe they could buddy him up with a friendly girls from his house group that he would know to stand in line with.

Or if he just cannot get that, bring him in early as already suggested.

[JsMum]

 

 

 

could you explain houses please, are they lines of children from different year groups too, so big kids, middle year kids and then his year kids?

 

Or kids in his year but are then seperated into their house and then they line up? does he know who else is in his house?

 

 

It sure does sound confusing, Js school didnt line up, ever, they just walk in an ordely way, J also didnt go throw the cloakroom way, he was met at the office and walked into the cloakroom when it was quieter, they need to show your son a lot more care, write it all down in a letter and send it to the school, that way you have aired your frustrations due to them not meeting his ASD needs.

 

Are any agencies involved with the school to help put in stratagies for your son, such as outreach autism Team?

 

Also the thing about loosing at games in PE I understand this one too, Has your son got any movement/muscle difficulties that could put him at a disadvantage, it may be a good idea to have a OT assess his in PE to ensure there is no physical reaasons, it may be he requires a spersific physical educational programme, he needs his self esteem boosting too, so small group games with some level of loosing but also a ballance of some winning too, what I like in Js pe is that they have to try and beat there own personal best score, that way they are not trying to be better than someone esle.

 

The angry crying will progress into behavioural frustration if this doenst get sorted out, they really need to take into acount his emotional and mental health in all this too.

 

So ensure he has some support for expressing his feeings where he is listened to not where adult teachers are suggesting he is been silly, since when was crying sillyness!he was upset, that is what you do when you are confused, angry and upset, what he needs is someone he feels he can trust to go to so he can get the help he deserves.

 

Bless him, brings back horrible moments we had to go throw, but the school can do a lot more to support him.

 

JsMumxxx

 

 

 

[bettyhen]

Thanks everybody for your supportive messages. The houses are children from each year and I think he finds it even more confusing because there are two line snot just one so nothing is clear enough to him. I will see what happens today but I am very unhappy as no-one seems to be taking on the responsibility of making sure he is alright but just assuming that he will get it in time. It took 6 weeks when he started for him to go in without screaming, crying and hitting but because he got it in time I suppose they're assuming it will happen again. I don't think it helps that he's very bright and while socially immature is intellectually very able (not at writing though!) - they assume he can understand what's happening and is perhaps choosing not to cope. I think they do need to put strategies in place and I will ask about it later today if nothing has been done. His IEP mentions nothing specific - it has no SMART targets so perhaps I should look at that too. He is only mildly ASD so I think they aren't taking it as seriously as they might do.

 

With regard to the losing, I too had issues with that and saw it as being much more important than it was. I had no perspective on it and couldn't cope with being exceptionally poor at games. I solved that by truanting all my PE once I reached 14! My son isn't dreadful but he isn't in anyway good at PE so will fail and will resent losing. I don't think it's silliness, I think it's something that he needs help with but I know that I won't be able to get his teacher to see that. Mumble, did you ever get any useful help with it? Your comments on anxiety are interesting as I do feel he is genuinely anxious. The SENCO had wanted the class teacher to give him a card once he'd had permission to do something so that he'd stop asking if it were ok but the teacher wouldn't do this as she saw it as a retrograde step which would make him look different. I don't think she wants to alter her practice to take account of his needs.

 

Oh well, time to get him up. I'm dreading this morning but if it's pouring with rain he'll go straight into class which will be a (temporary) relief!

[Sally44]

That is precisely the point you need to get across to them. That they cannot 'assume'. Many things are not 'obvious' to someone on the spectrum, even if they are a genius!

There were a couple of occasions when my son followed children out of his class at hometime and I would arrive at school and be unable to find him. Once I found him locked out of the school. So the staff were not keeping an eye on him at all. They told me that it is explained to children in reception year that they are not supposed to leave the class door until they see their parent. But they assumed he had learnt that in reception. He hadn't. He spent most of his early years 'copying' and 'following' what the other children did. That was because he has a moderate speech disorder and auditory processing problems, so most of what was taught to the other children was not processed or understood by my son.

Why don't you have a chat with someone like the parent partnership about the difficulties he is having, and arrange a meeting with the school SENCO and ask a member from the PP to come along with you. It always helps to have someone else there who knows the problems and who also knows what the school can and should be doing to address them. After the meeting send in a letter to school stating exactly what was discussed ie. your concerns etc, and what was agreed to be done by all parties involved. This is because you also need this written evidence incase you need to ask for an assessment towards a Statement in the future. All your evidence needs to be in writing. Anything verbal is useless.

[JsMum]

 

 

Hi make a list of what additional support you require your son needs, do not forget your son is an individual, and also an individual in ASD and though his symptoms maybe mild his mental health right now is esclulating and could cause long term trauma, yes trauma, because for some children with processing and communication difficultes this is what it is like for them, do not underestermate the mental effect of his trying to fit in to a system that wants him to be the same as his peers when he isnt, none of the children are anyway, if your son needs a different system set him then just request the school set this up, your intested in your child, no one elses, so make a list of what you want dealing with, request it and then follow it up, if they decline with any of your request ask them to put the reasons in writing.

 

Then arrange another meeting to arrange further stratagies the school can comprimise on.

 

It may be that this school is just not geared up to support your son who has very spersific needs and what about looking at another primary school, one with a ASD/Special needs unit attatched even.

 

It maybe your school is operating one size fits all, and the problem that causes it for some it just doesnt fit their needs, big or small!

 

JsMumxx

 

[Mumble]

Mumble, did you ever get any useful help with it?

Yeah, they excluded me from PE lessons and group work/games! I thought it was great, it was exactly what I wanted! To be fair(ish), I didn't have a dx at school, so they didn't know what they were dealing with and I am looking at this with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[bettyhen]

Thursday morning was a nightmare. He was hysterical refusing to join the queue and I was nearly in tears and absolutely furious. I said I was angry and upset and his class teacher and the TA came out and I said he couldn't cope with it as part of his ASD. They said he was partly 'trying it on' as he was fine once he was in the class (of course he was - the problem had ended) and I explained (again) that part of the issue was not knowing the names of the otehr children.

 

Well, after me making a fuss they organised for him to have a list of who is in the house - which he loves - plus he now has a specific person in front and behind and he went in well today (but with my husband not me). I find it really frustrating though that they didn't take his needs into account in the first place. I think what shocked them was the other parents' reactions - everyone was rushing around me trying to offer support and I think they realised how the school was portraying itself.

 

I will now write a letter saying thank you and will suggest that the same approach is used for any change. They've got a trip to the secondary school on Wednesday to do sport so that seems fraught with difficulties too!

 

Thanks everyone for your messages - I think the school may have a one size etc. mentality but they will have to change. There is a child with autism in YR as well (YR and Y1 are a mixed age class) - his mother was complaining to me about unnecessary changes etc so I think they'll have quite a bit of pressure.

 

Mumble, did they never consider that you might have ASD at school or where you just defined as 'difficult'? I'm a teacher in secondary and one of the reasons I wanted F diagnosed was to protect him from being excluded etc without a reasonable level of care being taken to provide for his needs. I imagine it doesn't get any easier as you get older either.

Edited November 6, 2009 by bettyhen

[Mumble]

Well, after me making a fuss they organised for him to have a list of who is in the house - which he loves - plus he now has a specific person in front and behind and he went in well today. I find it really frustrating though that they didn't take his needs into account in the first place. I think what shocked them was the other parents' reactions - everyone was rushing around me trying to offer support and I think they realised how the school was portraying itself.

 

I will now write a letter saying thank you and will suggest that the same approach is used for any change.

So glad it seems to have been solved - it shows that it can be really simple to 'fix' such issues, but such fixes do require open minded people to see the problem in the first place when, to them, they would not perceive one. The letter sounds like a good idea; you're acknowledging their support but also it serves as a written record of 'we've been here before' if problems arise again...

 

Mumble, did they never consider that you might have ASD at school or where you just defined as 'difficult'?

Well I was at school before HFA was really recognised/understood, although they certainly had enough concerns to say something wasn't right and to request referrals to Ed Psychs etc. These are documented in my school reports which, with hindsight, just read as a list of autistic characteristics/difficulties. Unfortunately my Mum never accepted what was said (to her, autism is my brother, i.e. severe autism) and wouldn't allow such referrals and even dealt with too many questions by having me move schools regularly. Because the teachers didn't have anyone on their backs pushing for referral, it was easy for those who were so inclined to label and treat me as difficult etc. Also, because social services were involved with our family long-term as my Mum had difficulty looking after my brother teachers saw us as a problem family and it was a case of well that must be the explanation rather than thinking that issues could be co-occurring.

[sesley]

My son who is 6 and in Y1 was badly shaken at the end of the last half term because they changed the lines for coming into school to houses instead of year groups. He had to be dragged in twice and would not get into the correct line even though the other children were being kind and beckoning him etc.

 

He was sick at the beginning of term but worried about the queues and saying he was 'confused'. We went back today and he couldn't cope. His teacher was there because she was sending the children in but she couldn't get him to join the correct group and she got a Y6 boy to lead him in which my son didn't like. He kept crying angrily and calling for his mummy.

 

I stopped to talk to the teacher at the end of the day and she wasn't very helpful saying he'd been silly today and it was clear that he needed to be back at school (implying something - I don't know what!). It turns out that his being silly was him crying at not winning in a PE activity - he finds losing very hard and it's very annoying but is just the way he is - he can't understand what's wrong with being upset! Apparently the reception children were comforting him. He was also very uncertain and questioning all the time about whether he was doing the right thing - this has always been an issue and I'm sure it's exacerbated by having been on holiday.

 

I imagine going in will be a nightmare tomorrow and I don't think they have planned for his ASD with regard to the queueing change. However, if I'm not careful I'll be the one demanding everything to be sorted out just for my child. (They are going in in houses so that the cloakroom isn't a nightmare).

 

Comments and advice would be very much appreciated. I'm really upset about this and frustrated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

is there a colour or picture of the house group that he is in? with the school get them to colour code with the relevant picture and explain to him the changes made. the schools should be working with you,for continuity,so don't hold back in speaking to them about the problem,because if he is distressed, its much better for you all to find a solution that works.

Edited November 6, 2009 by sesley

[bettyhen]

School are theoretically happy to work with us but I think they don't understand F's ASD, thinking it's more about the need to be firm than the need to approach things differently. Only one professional ever understood him - she could get him to do all sorts of tasks by involving him in some kind of roleplay (he loves pretending despite the ASD). It's interesting that he can queue better now because he's practised. I need to talk to them about a trip to the high school on Wednesday that might need similar preparation.

 

He goes to breakfast club on a Monday so it will be interesting to see how things go without either parent there.

[bettyhen]

They left a message at after school club to say that he'd done really well with queuing today so I'm hoping it will be the same tomorrow when I do it!

 

However, he was absolutely vile at bed time! You do pay for it in the end.