Help needed - son forcibly removed from class

[Carrera74]

My 12 DS attends a BESD special school. We have been having problems with them for some time.

 

We appealed against this school as there is no routine, no structure and no discipline in lessons. Behaviour is only dealt with when the pupils have lost it. Rules are constantly broken and it was clear from our first visit round that it wasn’t the right school for him but we lost our appeal and he has had to stay there. We have to make best of the situation but I don’t know how much more he or I can take.

 

We had our annual review in May and DS had become more unsettled and was disrupting a lot of lessons and refusing to take part. I may as well have been talking to myself as they didn’t’ take on board anything I said. At the end of the Summer term he was becoming more and more disruptive in lessons and try as I might to explain to school that this behaviour is because his needs are not being met, it falls on deaf ears. They just see my DS's negative behaviour and think he is playing up on purpose.

 

It was his second day back yesterday and he flipped as he was allowed to go on the computer at break time and he refused to come off it so they unplugged it and all hell broke loose. We have advised school that he needs to be told what time to go on, how long he has got and to be given a 5 minute warning when he is due to finish so he knows where he is at. They just switched it off at the wall. I know these are small things but it only takes a small thing like this to set him off.

 

I’m at my wits end. I don’t know what to do. He is in a special school with 6 children to the class maximum and yet they can still not read my son – he has been there now 12 months.

 

Can anyone advise what I can do about this? I have kept him off school today as he is so upset at what happened. He is always remorseful afterwards but it really gets to him. Once he snaps he can’t get out of it until he has peaked and then come out of it.

 

I’m really concerned that his behaviour is getting worse – he is copying the behaviour he has learnt these last 12 months at the school – kids get away with all sorts!

 

My main concern is educationally he’s falling behind and I’m worried that how he was taken to the peace area yesterday isn’t acceptable. I know school have rights and he was being disruptive so they had the right to take him to the peace area but I don’t think holding his arm out and bending his wrist back is the right way for a 12 year old boy – it’s the same way that prisoners are restrained!

 

He’s the same now as he was at mainstream primary school. We have no autistic schools in the area. I just want them to try to understand him instead of just dealing with his outbursts. I feel like banging my head against the wall

Edited November 5, 2009 by Carrera74

[joybed]

Sorry things are so bad at the moment. I can,t really give any concrete help I,m afraid but just wanted you to know I had read and understand what you are going through. we are having similar problems with my Ds (13) in a mainstream school and although there are appropriate schools the LEA won,t fund saying that M is too high functioning and can achieve in mainstream, however he is falling further behind daily and I feel time is running out.

Try contacting IPSEA and parent partnership as they were very supportive to us last year to us and may be able to give some advice.

My son would also have lost it had they just turned of the computer, they obviously have little understanding of ASD. I would also be upset if one of my children had been restrained in this manner and can understand why he hasn,t gone to school today. Hope others can help more, thinking of you <'> <'> <'>

[Kathryn]

Sorry to hear this. Below is information about how to complain: you might find it useful. I think it's important you make a full record of any incident and use the school's complaint procedures to ask for an investigation. You can also now complain to Ofsted if you have general concerns about a school, although they cannot investigate complaints about particular incidents.

 

http://www.ipsea.org.uk/What-you-need-to-k...o-complain.aspx

 

As far as getting your son out of the school is concerned, requesting a statutory re - assessment is the only way to force the LA to look at your son's needs again.

 

K x

[baddad]

It was his second day back yesterday and he flipped as he was allowed to go on the computer at break time and he refused to come off it so they unplugged it and all hell broke loose. We have advised school that he needs to be told what time to go on, how long he has got and to be given a 5 minute warning when he is due to finish so he knows where he is at. They just switched it off at the wall. I know these are small things but it only takes a small thing like this to set him off...

 

I’m really concerned that his behaviour is getting worse – he is copying the behaviour he has learnt these last 12 months at the school – kids get away with all sorts!

 

I’m at my wits end. I don’t know what to do. He is in a special school with 6 children to the class maximum and yet they can still not read my son – he has been there now 12 months.

 

Can anyone advise what I can do about this? I have kept him off school today as he is so upset at what happened. He is always remorseful afterwards but it really gets to him. Once he snaps he can’t get out of it until he has peaked and then come out of it.

 

Hi - hope you don't mind me pointing this out, but the first two paragraphs i've quoted above really confuse me...

on the one hand you are saying 'kids get away with all sorts' and blaming your son's behaviour on 'modelled' responses to this but on the other you seem to be defending your son's meltdown as a reasonable response to having the computer switched off after repeated warnings and requests(?) You've then rewarded him with a day off school which can only reinforce the idea that it's the school in the wrong and not him(?)

I really, really do wish you the very best in finding some solutions and, if necessary, a better placement, but just from the factors above i think your son may well be receiving mixed messages and this can't possibly help the situation.

 

L&P

 

BD

[flipper]

Hi - hope you don't mind me pointing this out, but the first two paragraphs i've quoted above really confuse me...

on the one hand you are saying 'kids get away with all sorts' and blaming your son's behaviour on 'modelled' responses to this but on the other you seem to be defending your son's meltdown as a reasonable response to having the computer switched off after repeated warnings and requests(?) You've then rewarded him with a day off school which can only reinforce the idea that it's the school in the wrong and not him(?)

I really, really do wish you the very best in finding some solutions and, if necessary, a better placement, but just from the factors above i think your son may well be receiving mixed messages and this can't possibly help the situation.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

BD

 

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood something.

 

You said "a reasonable response to having the computer switched off after repeated warnings and requests" whereas the OP stated that no warning were given despite the OP having previously advised the school that they NEEDED to give warnings, timings, 5-minute-notice before computer end time.

 

Phil

[Sally44]

BD, I think you've read the original post wrong (?). The post says that when he did not comply the computer was switched off at the wall and that school have been told by the parents that he needs forewarning or told beforehand how long the computer time would be for etc and the school do not listen to this or other advice.

 

Do the school use time timers?

 

 

[Carrera74]

Hi - hope you don't mind me pointing this out, but the first two paragraphs i've quoted above really confuse me...

on the one hand you are saying 'kids get away with all sorts' and blaming your son's behaviour on 'modelled' responses to this but on the other you seem to be defending your son's meltdown as a reasonable response to having the computer switched off after repeated warnings and requests(?) You've then rewarded him with a day off school which can only reinforce the idea that it's the school in the wrong and not him(?)

I really, really do wish you the very best in finding some solutions and, if necessary, a better placement, but just from the factors above i think your son may well be receiving mixed messages and this can't possibly help the situation.

 

L&P

 

BD

 

Hi there

 

Don't mind you pointing it out at all. I've just re-read it and I can see what you mean. From day one there was no structure at school or routine. On our first visit at school there were 2 kids walking round the school in the rain telling me how s**t the school was. It's full of streetwise kids who rule the school. A TA who used to work there said it's like a zoo! It was only in May this year that they started to put some sort of discipline in place but it's hit or miss. One lesson they get a red card for breaking a rule, the next day they don't. My DS is very strict with rules and boundaries. If they are not clear he get anxious and eventually really loses it. I do think they were right to take him out of the lesson as he had lost control. My concerns are they are not nipping things in the bud. Kids are only disciplined once they have exploded. They don't seem to catch him when he is starting to show his anxieties.

 

DS needs a consistant approach but he does not get this at school. I understand what you mean about the mixed messages but I am really worried that after 12 months they still can't read him and just deal with the tantrums.

 

School don't take on what we say about how to deal with him with time management - I have asked them to be specific with the times etc but they don't. They just told him to turn it off with no warning so because he wasn't prewarned he said no andn then they turned it off. I don't know if all ASD kids have trouble with this sort of thing but it's a big thing for us which is why we pointed it out to School. The fact they don't listen to us is what frustrates me and makes things worse for him.

[Carrera74]

BD, I think you've read the original post wrong (?). The post says that when he did not comply the computer was switched off at the wall and that school have been told by the parents that he needs forewarning or told beforehand how long the computer time would be for etc and the school do not listen to this or other advice.

 

Do the school use time timers?

 

No they don't use anything I suggest.

[Sally44]

No, my son is the same.

Now he doesn't need to have a time timer to show him how long he has before 'I turn off the TV', or 'we leave the house'. But I have to give him verbal warnings.

If he is watching TV it cannot be switched off during a programme because he needs to see the end. If we really do need to turn it off then we just have to deal with the tantrum that follows. My understanding is that although he has watched part of the programme he needs to see the end to see what happens. He cannot turn it off and 'imagine' the ending from the information he has. So if the TV is turned off he has all that information with no understandable outcome. If he sees the whole programme he mentally 'records' it and can 'replay' it to himself anytime. Without that recording it makes no sense and sends him mad. Starting, stopping and transitions were very big issues with him. But he is getting better as he grows up.

[Carrera74]

No, my son is the same.

Now he doesn't need to have a time timer to show him how long he has before 'I turn off the TV', or 'we leave the house'. But I have to give him verbal warnings.

If he is watching TV it cannot be switched off during a programme because he needs to see the end. If we really do need to turn it off then we just have to deal with the tantrum that follows. My understanding is that although he has watched part of the programme he needs to see the end to see what happens. He cannot turn it off and 'imagine' the ending from the information he has. So if the TV is turned off he has all that information with no understandable outcome. If he sees the whole programme he mentally 'records' it and can 'replay' it to himself anytime. Without that recording it makes no sense and sends him mad. Starting, stopping and transitions were very big issues with him. But he is getting better as he grows up.

 

My son is getting better as he gets older. We seem to have less outbursts at home because we tell him what we're doing, what time etc etc. It really helps. Just wish school would take us seriously and put these things in place there as well.

[JsMum]

 

 

 

Does the BESD special school cater for Autistic Children, is your son DX with Autism? it may be the school isnt equipt to deal with your sons spersific needs and requires a more specialist school that caters for both EBD and Autism.

 

It sound like our local EBD school which I was really worried as I could vision J ending up there, I know what you mean by streetwise kids, it sounds herrendous and I know I wouldnt be sending him back at all until a full assessment was done, also the restraint sounds like its out of date, and possibly illegal, has he recieved any bruising or marks, if so I would get him physically looked at the local hospital, my son has been restrained but not like the discription you have given and its used as a last resort and to prevent harm to others and themselves.

 

So please do check the restraining policy, also it has to be logged and a full report of the restraint.

 

J would of reacted the same way, he requires warnings well inadvance.

 

 

Anyway sounds like it isnt the right school, so look into other specialist schools.

 

JsMumxxxx

 

[baddad]

BD

 

I'm not sure if you've misunderstood something.

 

You said "a reasonable response to having the computer switched off after repeated warnings and requests" whereas the OP stated that no warning were given despite the OP having previously advised the school that they NEEDED to give warnings, timings, 5-minute-notice before computer end time.

 

Phil

 

 

Hi flipper - the OP said that he 'refused to come off', which to me suggests some sort of process of negotiation/warning. It may not be the negotiation/warning the OP wanted or suggested, but that's a different kettle of fish entirely, and not one i chose to comment on because a - I don't know the child concerned and b - I suspect my views on this aspect would be unpopular anyway...

The point I did comment on was the mixed signals being sent, which even the OP has acknowledged...

We are being told on the one hand that the social understanding of the child concerned is so compromised that he is unable to grasp the concept of 'your time on the computer is up' without visual and verbal cues, 1 to 1 mentoring and a staged process of support and negotiation. On the other hand, the suggestion seems to be that he would be be able to understand and make sense of a scenario where 'all hell breaking loose' is condoned, blamed on the actions of outsiders (the school/staff) and where he is rewarded with a day off to compensate for the emotional turmoil they have put him through(?)

Try as I might, I can't help but see a huge inconsistency there, both in terms of assumptions about the child's abilities of comprehension and the parents expectation of the school to 'manage' behaviours that occur in school (on the one hand the parent is unhappy and doesn't feel the school do manage such behaviours but on the other she undermines their attempts to do so by labelling them as inappropriate and reinforcing that view in her child by offering rewards).

Hope that makes sense, and that I've answered sally44's post too. Do they use timers? That's for mum/school to negotiate over: it does not excuse aggressive or destructive responses to reasonable requests and sanctions imposed when those requests are ignored.

 

L&P

 

BD

[Sally44]

I think it can work both ways ie. we can assume a child is capable of x, y and z when they are not. And we can also assume they are not capable of x, y and z when they are.

BD I understand you saying that it is strange for a child not to be able to understand being told they have to stop, and then saying they understand something much more complex or subtle. That might be the case. Or it might be true. It is a valid point to make. And the parent has to look at their child and their abilities and decide which it is. And that deciding of a child's abilities will apply to many things because there is this uneven skill set and behaviour response. I have seen and AS adult with a Masters Degree errupt like a volcano because books on his shelf had been moved and put in a different order.

As a parent I know that there will be times when others do not know about, or understand my sons need for clear cut instructions, forewarnings and count downs etc. By that time I hope when he is older he copes better. But sometimes he may not, and the outcome of that is an 'unknown' factor.

 

I've been looking on Wendy Lawsons website recently and came across a description of how she experiences things that is a more indepth explanation of what my son says happens to him. Many times when my son is in his own world talking to himself, or playing with something and I ask him a question ie. 'what did you do at school today', or 'do you want a drink' etc he would collapse in tears or become angry and would say 'now you've destroyed it, i'll have to start from the beginning again. I knew that in some way I had done something that had made him unable to do something. But I didn't know what it was. This is what Wendy says on this subject, which might be useful.

 

"Before I received a diagnosis of ASD I thought that my difficulties in every day life were because I was not as intelligent as other people. The only way that I could cope with my daily confusion and frustration was by living according to my rules, rituals and routines. If someone projected into my thinking or conversation I felt almost violated! "How dare they interrupt my space and distract me from my course. Didn’t they understand that now I would have to start over again, recapture my thoughts or plans and schedule it all again!" Well, actually Wendy...No, they did not. You see...people talk to each other quite often. They don’t need to put their thoughts on hold to do this, or even take time to go back to the beginning of their sequence of events after the conversation finishes. They can move from one thing to the other....most of the time."

 

So, if when interrupted a child becomes upset or angry because they experience something similar to the above, although the behaviour is not 'appropriate' it is understandable. If everytime someone broke into 'my thinking' it meant that it wiped the board clean and I had to start all over - that would be very frustrating and annoying. And we do need to keep interacting don't we. We don't leave a child for long before we feel 'uncomfortable' if we don't say something to them. And if I didn't understand that other people were not like that, I might wonder why people kept deliberately destroying what I was doing or thinking.

 

 

[Carrera74]

Try as I might to explain to school that he needs clear timetables and to be told how long he has left at break etc it does not happen. On Wednesday the teacher came in the room they were having break and said 'turn the computers off'. No warnings just one request. All the kids were messing around so the teacher turned them off. To another child this might have just made them realise that break was over but for my son it stressed him out. Like I said before, I'm not sure if this is normal for ASD children but it really affects my son. You'd think in a special school with just 6 kids in a class that they would be able to put something in place to help my son with this. They just deal with the behaviour once he has a meltdown.

 

I have kept him off school as I am unhappy about the way they deal with just the outbursts, not the reason behind it. I know that children have to be taken out of class if they are a danger to themselves or others. I don't think the way they removed him is the right way but I have requested a copy of the behavioural policy. We asked for this 12 months ago but were told that they don't need to use restraint as they don't have that sort of behaviour at their school. My DS has learnt the behaviour he shows in class. When he first went he wouldn't have done half the things he does now. Slowly but surely the things he has seen in class he has done himself. I warned them that if the other children didn't get punished for the inappropriate behaviour that my son would think this is the norm and do it himself. Which has happened. They have started to discpline the kids and if it was consistant then great but it isn't and that isn't helping either.

 

He is sat doing schoolwork so I don't see how I have given him a reward. He probably does less work at school than when he is at home.

 

I guess I know my son is at a school which isn't ASD friendly although they say they are. I do keep on at them in the hope that they will take my son's needs seriously but it's days like the other day which show they don't.

 

When my son first started at this school the HT said they couldn't meet his needs as he's on the spectrum. I spoke to the LEA about this and 2 days after he told me this he said they changed their minds and said they could meet his behavioural needs. There's more to ASD than bad behaviour though isn't there!

 

 

Thanks everyone for your comments. It does help to see other people's points of view.

 

[call me jaded]

Any access to CAMHS?

[Carrera74]

Any access to CAMHS?

 

Yes we have a link worker and we see her regular. She is aware of the problems with the school. She agrees that the problems we are having is because they are unable to read my son and she is going to do some more sessions with him to help him at school. I wish school would take the recommendations on board too. It's so frustrating

[dana]

I am sorry I don't have advice to give but sympathise with you. <'> >< <'> It is frustrating when your opinion is not taken on board. On one of my teacher training courses I was taught of importance of a good relationship in the triangle teacher-pupil-parent and that a parent's views should be taken into account.

 

Danaxxx

[Carrera74]

School have admitted that the teacher who took my son out used the wrong restraint and they are investigating. They said they had their reservations previously about the way he uses restraint. It puzzles me though why it has taken me to go in before they do something! It felt like they are going to use this incident as a way to get rid of the teacher. The HT teacher said they will put my son in 1:1 Maths when he goes back and the teacher in question will not be able to restraint any child until he has done some training! I still feel uneasy sending him back as I feel they are just using the teacher as an excuse for my son's behaviour. They still feel that the school is the right one for him and they don't think his ASD is a problem. The HT said my son chooses when to misbehave and he is more able than I think and in another breath said they are still getting to know him. The short stay school he attended knew him well within weeks yet he has been there since September last year and they still don't know his triggers or can tell when he's getting anxious.

[Karen A]

Hi.There are guidilines that should be followed with regard to restraint of pupils who are known to exhibit challenging behaviour.If the school have not followed guidance and have admitted that that is the case then it is a serious issue.The full document is available bellow if you wish to read it.

http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/6059/PI%20Guidance.pdf

The school should have a specific policy in place on the use of restraint.

The school should have undertaken a risk assessment to establish whether your son could potentially display challenging behaviour at a level that would require intervention.

They should also have a plan in place regarding ways to prevent challenging behaviour being triggered in the first place.

They should have a clear plan of action to be instigated by named members of staff who are trained in the use of appropriate measures.

They should have clearly documented the incident in an incident report.

Do check if these procedures have been followed and if not write a letter to the COG to make an official complaint.

If your son has a Statement then copy it to the LEA SEN department.

If you wish you could also request an urgent reassessment of the Statement.

 

The document I refer to specifically states ''extending or flexing the joints or putting pressure on the joints'' is regarded as a form of pysical intervention associated with creating increased risk.From the description you give it sounds as though this sort of intervention was used.

 

holding his arm out and bending his wrist back

 

I think it is very reasonable to expect that a school for pupils with BESD should have clear procedures in place which do not include restraint techniques which inflict pain.

For what its worth BD might feel you are allowing your child to remain at home which is unhelpful.i However in a similar situation I kept my son at home following a previous incident when I felt I could not be sure the school could provide a safe environment.My LEA took my complaint sufficiently seriously that they investigated my complaint as a possible child protection issue.They were very clear that the use of physical restraint in ways that are unauthorised could be considered a child protection issue.Karen.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Karen A

[Karen A]

School have admitted that the teacher who took my son out used the wrong restraint and they are investigating. They said they had their reservations previously about the way he uses restraint. It puzzles me though why it has taken me to go in before they do something! It felt like they are going to use this incident as a way to get rid of the teacher. The HT teacher said they will put my son in 1:1 Maths when he goes back and the teacher in question will not be able to restraint any child until he has done some training! I still feel uneasy sending him back as I feel they are just using the teacher as an excuse for my son's behaviour. They still feel that the school is the right one for him and they don't think his ASD is a problem. The HT said my son chooses when to misbehave and he is more able than I think and in another breath said they are still getting to know him. The short stay school he attended knew him well within weeks yet he has been there since September last year and they still don't know his triggers or can tell when he's getting anxious.

 

If the school are a BESD school and do not have specific provision for ASD it may well be worth asking the LEA to conduct a reassessment of your child's needs on the basis that you do not believe the school are able to provide appropriate provision due to your child having ASD.

http://www.ipsea.org.uk/What-you-need-to-k...ingReassessment

A draft letter is on this page.

 

As Kathryn has said requesting a reassessment is really the only way to push to LEA to look at whether current placement is appropriate.Staff at a BESD may have little or no awareness of ASD.

It may be reasuring for you to know that there are others who have experience with children with ASD who exhibit challenging behaviour.I recently did a help 2 course in managing anger for parents of children with AS.A large proportion of the group reported having to deal with pysical violence.The NAS are currently researching the issue because it crops up so often.

 

Interestingly the NAS certainly had a different view regarding behaviour managemnent to BD.

 

The NAS lady went as far as to say that individuals with ASD who display challenging behaviour do so because they have a disability and they have no control over it in the same way that a blind person cannot help standing on your toe.I am not sure I go that far.I do believe there is a place for consequences and an expectation that individuals can change behaviour with support.However physical restraint does not strike me as being helpful or appropriate in changing behviour regardless of whether a child has understood instructions or deliberately ignored them.

 

 

However aggressive or destructive a child's response to a reasonable request there is no excuse in my opinion and in law for the use of restraint using the infliction of physical pain even in prison.The use of the infliction of phsical pain is certainly not recognised as a sanction.

Edited November 13, 2009 by Karen A

[Carrera74]

Thank you so much for that information.

 

I'm really stuck as to what to do for the best.

 

I am waiting for the EP report (which was recommended when we lost at Tribunal in March) and I am hoping that will change the statement but I do wonder whether a full revew of his needs would be better as the advices are so old in the original statement. School have called an interim review which is to take place 3 weeks today. They called it due to his behaviour deteriorating so much since his last review in May although they denied that yesterday. They said they have called it to take into account the EP recommendations when they arrive?

 

The school are adamant he is in the right place so I know it's going to be an impossible task getting the school changed but I do wonder whether this latest incident is big enough for the LEA to listen to what I have to say but I have a feeling they'll just worm their way out of it as they usually do.

 

I'll have a read of the links you sent when I get home from work but again, thank you for taking the time to post.

[Karen A]

Hi.

I have tried to read back and remember the important information from another thread where the situation was similar to yours.I would post a link but as the thread currently runs to five pages it may take time to read it.

 

I think they are probably calling an interim review as in this information in the COP.

Interim Reviews

9:44 Where a school identifies a pupil with a statement of special educational needs who is at

serious risk of disaffection or exclusion, an interim or early review should be called. It will

then be possible to consider the pupil’s changing needs and recommend amendments to

the statement, as an alternative to the pupil being excluded.68

 

I think the important thing if a review does go ahead is to ensure that there are some amendments to the Statement.

I am not sure about how the loss at tribunal in March will impact your ability to appeal to SENDIST.

However I think that usually there needs to be an amendment to the Statement for there to be a right to appeal via SENDIST.

The situation to be avoided is one in which the review goes ahead but no amendments are made.

It may be most straightforward to see if you can get an amendment at the review and then appeal to SENDIST if needed.

Kathryn is the expert I think she suggested appealing the amendment in the other similar case because a re-assessment would be a lengthy process and could still end up with the same information and not much further forward.

 

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...ual-reviews.htm

This link may well provide helpful information.See especially section 11.

 

I think it would certainly worth phoning the IPSEA helpline next week for some expert individual support.

In any case do ensure that any further incidents of challenging behaviour are documented by the school.Even though the situation is difficult at least documentation proves that the school is currently not able to manage your son and the LEA needs to consider alternative options. <'>

Edited November 13, 2009 by Karen A

[Carrera74]

Well the EP rang on Friday and updated me on his session with my son. He thinks my son is placed in the right school and he told me to send him back to school today or I would get in trouble. The school were waiting for the EP report to put strategies in place to help deal with his behaviour and yet by the sounds of it he doesn't feel there is anything to put in place. I don't know what to do for the best. I think we will have to complain about the teacher. My son told me this morning that the teacher who restrained him did the same to a boy in his class last year and nothing was done. He has also been taught by this teacher since he started at this school so I am disgusted that he doesn't have the correct training when the HT told me and the SENDIST panel that all his staff had up to date TeamTeach training! I am meeting with Parent Partnership today to see what I can do next. I'm also going to ring IPSEA too. I don't feel comfortable sending him back to school until I am 100% sure that should the need to restrain him again, it happens properly. I am still waiting for copies of the behaviour policy and the complaints policy. I wanted to make sure I knew exactly how they would deal with him should the need arise again, which I'm sure it will do

[wasuup]

Well the EP rang on Friday and updated me on his session with my son. He thinks my son is placed in the right school and he told me to send him back to school today or I would get in trouble. The school were waiting for the EP report to put strategies in place to help deal with his behaviour and yet by the sounds of it he doesn't feel there is anything to put in place. I don't know what to do for the best. I think we will have to complain about the teacher. My son told me this morning that the teacher who restrained him did the same to a boy in his class last year and nothing was done. He has also been taught by this teacher since he started at this school so I am disgusted that he doesn't have the correct training when the HT told me and the SENDIST panel that all his staff had up to date TeamTeach training! I am meeting with Parent Partnership today to see what I can do next. I'm also going to ring IPSEA too. I don't feel comfortable sending him back to school until I am 100% sure that should the need to restrain him again, it happens properly. I am still waiting for copies of the behaviour policy and the complaints policy. I wanted to make sure I knew exactly how they would deal with him should the need arise again, which I'm sure it will do

 

 

Can I ask the first initials of your sons EP if they are ***** then he is useless. He recenltly moved from our area to another part of Lancs. He is the worst EP that any of my friends childrens parents have dealt with who have SEN and I am sure that most of his colleagues at the LEA don't have anything good to say about him. Email the principal EP and go over his head (email addy on LCC website).

Edited November 16, 2009 by Kathryn
to remove possible identifying information

[Carrera74]

Can I ask the first initials of your sons EP if they are *** then he is useless. He recenltly moved from our area to another part of Lancs. He is the worst EP that any of my friends childrens parents have dealt with who have SEN and I am sure that most of his colleagues at the LEA don't have anything good to say about him. Email the principal EP and go over his head (email addy on LCC website).

 

Hi there

 

No it's ****. He's seemed really thorough when I met with him to discuss my concerns but it seems he's just done academic tests with him and not much else. I feel like I've been waiting for him to wave a magic wand to give the school a kick up the behind but unfortunately not. It's like I have to wait for him to hit rock bottom and fail completely before anyone will take any notice.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Kathryn
see post above

[wasuup]

Still maybe worth trying the principal EP as your son needs urgent help really. Got to go out now-good luck!!

[Carrera74]

Hi.

I have tried to read back and remember the important information from another thread where the situation was similar to yours.I would post a link but as the thread currently runs to five pages it may take time to read it.

 

Would you mind pointing me in the direction of the thread you mention so I can have a read.

[Karen A]

Would you mind pointing me in the direction of the thread you mention so I can have a read.

 

 

http://www.asd-forum.org.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=21151

This is the thread but do get a cup of tea and some cake before you sit down as you may be some time.

The situation is different in some respects.However the need for appropriate provision and difficulty in obtaining it is similar.

 

Regarding your son not being in school I thought it worth mentioning.

If you feel you can say that your son is not well enough mentally to be at school you could request that your GP authorise abscence on medical grounds.The school would then not be able to threaten you with action over none attendance.The LA would also need to make alternative arrangements while the issue is resolved.

If you need more information then do say.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Karen A

[Sally44]

Has the EP carried out assessments and then has made no recommendations??

Ask them for a copy of his assessments and findings and recommendations he is to school. Get that in writing.

If there is no extra advice, then it would seem that no amendments are going to be made as none are recommended??

If that is the case talk about it with IPSEA. It may mean asking for a re-assessment by the LEA. If they refuse you can appeal that. And you would need evidence of why you feel he needs re-assessing and a new Statement drawing up.

When you get to the Stage when the LEA does agree to re-assess, then they may come back and say that where he is at is the best place. So then again you appeal against sections (2) not all needs identified, section (3) how those needs are to be met is not specified or quantified and section (4) educational placement is incorrect as they have no ASD experience or expertise and state your preferred school of choice.

 

Unless others know of another way of getting an amendment to a Statement??

 

I would also get the 'restraining' issue in writing ie. follow the complaints procedure. So that you have evidence that your son needs restraining at times, and that the way this current school achieves this is illegal. You could also ask the current school in writing to give you details of the training all staff receive on a yearly basis, and ask him to specify if they have received training in ASD's.

[Karen A]

Has the EP carried out assessments and then has made no recommendations??

Ask them for a copy of his assessments and findings and recommendations he is to school. Get that in writing.

If there is no extra advice, then it would seem that no amendments are going to be made as none are recommended??

If that is the case talk about it with IPSEA. It may mean asking for a re-assessment by the LEA. If they refuse you can appeal that. And you would need evidence of why you feel he needs re-assessing and a new Statement drawing up.

When you get to the Stage when the LEA does agree to re-assess, then they may come back and say that where he is at is the best place. So then again you appeal against sections (2) not all needs identified, section (3) how those needs are to be met is not specified or quantified and section (4) educational placement is incorrect as they have no ASD experience or expertise and state your preferred school of choice.

 

Unless others know of another way of getting an amendment to a Statement??

 

I would also get the 'restraining' issue in writing ie. follow the complaints procedure. So that you have evidence that your son needs restraining at times, and that the way this current school achieves this is illegal. You could also ask the current school in writing to give you details of the training all staff receive on a yearly basis, and ask him to specify if they have received training in ASD's.

 

Hi.I think a desision re amendments could not be made on the back of the EP report.It will need to be decided at the emergency review which I think is not until 3 weeks after the 13 Nov.

The best course of action is probably to wait for the outcome of the emergency review.Are-assessment could take months and could still move things no further forward.Far quicker to appeal the amendments.If there are none then consider requesting re-assessment.

 

[Sally44]

Sorry didn't see there was an emergency review date.

What happens at an emergency review?

If the EP is happy and has made no recommendations, and school are happy for him to be there, then there is the possibility that they will go through the process and just decide that everything is okay as it is?

[Karen A]

Sorry didn't see there was an emergency review date.

What happens at an emergency review?

If the EP is happy and has made no recommendations, and school are happy for him to be there, then there is the possibility that they will go through the process and just decide that everything is okay as it is?

 

The process is broadly the same as an AR.

The best thing parents can do is to try to put a strong enough case together to support their opinion re what they consider the problems to be.

The best outcome would be for amendments to be agreed that resolve the issues in the parent's opinion.The LA still have to agree but it is helpful if all at the review are of the same opinion.

If the professionals do not agree that amendments are needed the parent can still make as stronger case as possible and request clearly that their views are recorded.The panel may then take the parent's view into account.

In the worst case scenario those present at the AR could fail to take the parent's views into account and not suggest changes and so the Statement could go through without amendments.

In that case the parent would then be able to request a Statutary Reassessment.However this is a much longer process and the Statement could still remain the same.

So the best option is probably to push for an amendment however small.The amendment does not have to result in everything being ok.The important thing is that having an amendment however small enables an appeal via SEND if needed.

 

http://www.ace-ed.org.uk/advice-about-educ...ual-reviews.htm

This link provides the most helpful explanation of the review process that I have found.It explains the process more clearly than me.See section 11 in particular.

Edited November 16, 2009 by Karen A

[Carrera74]

Just an update really. I need to sound off so hope you don't mind....

 

It's was DS review on Friday. We received the EP report, SALT report, Behavioural plan and another care plan when we arrived. The EP report seems a waste of time as there is no mention in it about his behaviour deteriorating. It was agreed that the statement needs to be amended in light of the new paperwork so that's good as I can start the ball rolling with part 4. Not only has his behaviour significantly detiorated but his learning has suffered too and they admitted that. They feel the school is the suitable place for him (!!!) and they blamed me for his deterioation as they said that DS knows I don't think it is the right school for him so that he why he is failing. The Deputy Head really had a go at me. It was awful. The EP and the LEA rep both told him he was taking it too far. It was truely awful The Deputy also admitted that the teacher who restrained my son had had no teamteach training as he was off sick on the training days. The HT told the panel at the tribunal last year that all staff were trained in Teamteach. Another lie I have wrote to school and confirmed that I wanted to make a complaint about how he was restrained and also about the fact it got to the stage it did. On Friday it was agreed that DS would go back to school on Wednesday but I really do not feel that it is in his best interests. I do not feel satisfied that they can say they continue to meet his needs and the teacher will do some training in the new year. I have contacted school this afternoon to say I still haven't had a reply as to what is happening with the complaint and also I haven't had a copy of his school file etc. I also rang to say I would be keeping him out of school until the New YEar. I've just had a reply from the HT saying that the safeguarding team are not calling a strategy meeting and his repsonse is with the legal team at the LEA. They are going to add DS to the out of school register so I guess I am in big trouble now with the LEA. I am so upset that they have not taken my complaint seriously. My son was marked and they have admitted the teacher didn't have the correct training yet that is it. I don't know what to do. I know hand on heart that the school is failing him but I am just expected to send him in and wait for him to hit rock bottom before they do anything. It stinks I'm going to contract IPSEA in the morning once I've calmed down but I just wanted to write my thoughts down because I don't know what else to do.

[Karen A]

Hi. <'> <'> <'>

I think it may be worth asking for a copy of the school complaints procedure.

We were in the situation last year where the school did not follow recognised procedure with regard to responding to a complaint [they did not have a complaints procedure to follow. ].The LA advised me that I should allow 14 days for a response as that is considered a reasonable time frame.If you find that the procedure has not been followed or the time limit has passed you may well be able to escalate your complaint up to the next level.That would probably be to the LA.

 

Please do obtain some individual advice if you are thinking about keeping your son out of school beyond Wedensday.It is a very difficult situation if you refuse to send your son to school because of worries about inability to provide a safe environment but the school then document it as unauthorised abscence.

Karen.

[Carrera74]

Thanks for the hugs, I need them!!

 

The HT was quite snotty in his reply to me and said he had 20 days to respond to my letter and he was within that time scale and would reply before they break up for school on Friday. He also said that keeping him off school because I have complained is not allowed and that is why they have put him on the absent register. He has been out of school since the 5 November now and it seems that because I am not happy with their answer for it not to happen again - they have suggested he does 1:1 Maths with a TA instead of the teacher who hurt him - that that is good enough. They have copied in the LA legal team to their response so I know this isn't going in my favour. I just can't believe they are allowed to get away with hurting my son and for letting the system fail him. It's all my fault apparantly. My FiL thinks I should go to the local press and jump up and down but I think that may make things a whole lot worse, not that I can see how much worse it can get.

 

I keep hoping for those 6 numbers so I can either home educate him or put him in the right type of school for his needs.

[Sally44]

My understanding is that if any amendment is made to the Statement you can appeal to SEND, and it doesn't have to be anything to do with the amendment ie. an amendment to include extra hours can give you the right to appeal to SEND about the placement.

It is about gathering documented evidence though, so you are on the right track about getting written information about the incident and follow the schools complaint procedure. School are obviously going to feel criticised and it may well make them clam up.

Do you have any other placement in mind? Have you visited this school and is there a place available there?

Very important regarding keeping your son out of school is to try to get that down to 'his medical grounds' ie. anxiety. Your refusing to take him into school can work again you as you have a legal duty to take him into school.

Also be careful about saying you are prepared to home ed. The LEA would love that as it takes all the financial responsibility off them. So don't even hint at that option.

Have you spoken with IPSEA. They have a tribunal service. Check everything you do to ensure you do things by the book and methodically work through things.

[Carrera74]

I remember reading about trying to get him signed out of school. I'm not sure whether our GP would do that for us. At the moment he is very calm - his anxieties have calmed down as he is out of school. Think I need to make an appointment at the doctors and see what they can do ?

[Sally44]

Maybe a Friday evening appointment when your son is at his worst after a whole week in school????

If he is not off school due to sickness or medical grounds then you will be considered to be keeping him off school and you will get into trouble for it.

Have you read through the other post that is similar to yours that Karen posted??

[Carrera74]

He isn't at school so I don't think I can get him signed off. Oh why didn't I do this when the incident happened. My FiL is telling me to go to the local press to highlight our case - both with the unsuitable school and the restraint. This is seeming more and more tempting as I'm running out of ideas. Why is everything such a battle. He had come so far and it is all crumbling away and yet the LEA just aren't bothered are they

[Karen A]

I remember reading about trying to get him signed out of school. I'm not sure whether our GP would do that for us. At the moment he is very calm - his anxieties have calmed down as he is out of school. Think I need to make an appointment at the doctors and see what they can do ?

 

Hi.I think it is certainly worth talking to your GP.If you can get him signed off as authorised sick on mental health grounds at least that would reduce the chances of the LA taking action against you re unauthorised abscence. <'> <'>

Even if your son is off school you may be able to obtain documentation to support you in saying that he is too unwell to return to school.

Karen.

Edited December 15, 2009 by Karen A